AoS 2 - Legion of the First Prince Discussion (Belakor)

[Lord Krungharr]

I see the Verminlord Corruptor in these army lists.  What's the deal with the Chaos Ascendant armies, they can have any daemons in them?  K'Daii Fireborn are daemons.  Or do they have to have a Chaos Mark of some sort for this army?

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I see the Verminlord Corruptor in these army lists.  What's the deal with the Chaos Ascendant armies, they can have any daemons in them?  K'Daii Fireborn are daemons.  Or do they have to have a Chaos Mark of some sort for this army?

If a unit has the keyword “Chaos Daemon” then it slots right in. 

[Frowny]

Not sure I like the Bel'akor changes. He got slightly stronger and slightly killier, but they also upped his points by 160. Given his role was principally supporting with his awesome ability, 160 points is quite rough. They didn't make him strong enough to be a true beatstick on his own either.... Compare his ~20 damage maximum to a frostlord on stonehorns at ~46, who is also more durable (3+ 5++, 13 wounds is substantially better than (4+, 6++ 14 wounds). True he is a caster and his ability will remain amazing, but I'm not sure its actually for his best. I think he'll still be OK here if he can shrug things off onto cheap demons, but he'll be used a lot less as an ally. Now that I'm writing this, I think he probably still has play, but we'll see. 

Still super annoying that Belakor must be the general to use the interesting ability to resurrect demons

Still didn't do the one thing I wish most for- making furies battleline in some way. I would love love love a fast mobile hit-and-run army with some harder hitters to back it up. Alas. 

[Eldarain]

Gutted all the Keyword based play of the Allegiance. Will be interesting to see what lists come out of this.

[WHYGW]

belakor's Demon Resurrection ability
The wording has been changed from the keyword to the warscroll of each lesser daemon.
You can no longer revive the Seeker of CherryOt, Skull Cannon, Drone, etc.

and he can re-roll hit only 

Even with at least one daemon, unlike before, all God's daemons must exist now.

 

i think this is very hard nerf

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by WHYGW

[Mandollies]

By my reading (FWIW) The Battalions are still ok to be used right? Its only been the Allegiance Abilities that have been superseded by Broken Realms: Be'lakor correct?

[boombyeyeah]

14 hours ago, Frowny said:

belakor's Demon Resurrection ability

The wording has been changed from the keyword to the warscroll of each lesser daemon.

You can no longer revive the Seeker of CherryOt, Skull Cannon, Drone, etc.

 

 

Well, a small buff is that it is no longer a commandability, it just triggers every battleshock phase. 

The battalions should still work, but i think they are very boring. They would be interesting if they would allow a mix of units from different gods.

If i want to play 7 units of Plaguebearers + nurgle heroes i rather play nurgle allegiance to get that nice - 1 rend ignore. Same goes for the other gods allegiances as well. 

Do i understand it right he has to be near 4 different battlelines to get reroll hits? 

[Hannibal]

IMO LoCA is now a toned down version of something that´s never been overly strong. Why, GW, why?

 

I´m so dissapointed. I bought a book last year just to be able to play a mixed Daemons Legion and now I got a watered down version of it in a new book? No, GW, thanks! Keep your book. No interest anymore.

And to be honest, why should I play LoCA when I can just play Grand Alliance Chaos? What is THE selling point of LoCA right now? Roughly 200 - 300 points of summoned models?

 

[Frowny]

Yeah. There is space for a ton of cool mixed demon things, but they never really went there. 

• A battalion for 1 of each greater demon (lots of options, even just rerolling 1's like with the thricefold befilement would be fun)
• A battalion for 1 unit of each lesser demon
• Battalion encompassing pairs of Gods (if a slaanesh unit is within 12 inches of a khorne unit it can do something unique etc....)

I would have loved if belakor had a god-agnostic command ability. Or maybe one that affected units based on what god they were. Something like the warshrine or demon princes abilities would have been a characterful addition. Or something more dark-mastery about messing with stuff. I feel like he just needed 1 more thing to make him awesome. Instead he's exactly the same but bigger, which feels like a let down? A bigger letdown...

[Kasper]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:06 AM, Mandollies said:

By my reading (FWIW) The Battalions are still ok to be used right? Its only been the Allegiance Abilities that have been superseded by Broken Realms: Be'lakor correct?

I dont think they are legal. The alligiance went from being named "Legions of Chaos Ascendant" to "Legions of the First Prince". So unless they FAQ it it is essentially 2 different armies and it would be similar to Stormcast and Cities of Sigmar. 

Technically I guess you can still play the old version in Wrath of the Everchosen but I expect this to be FAQ'd/errata'd in 4 weeks time. 

 

I have been considering something along these lines - Yes I know it is 10 pts over - I need to make some cuts and trim some fat but not entirely sure what yet. I have been trying to create "power pairs" that work together on the board. The idea was:

1. Kairos + Spellportal is a given imo. The ranged snipe is incredible in a game where you have Skink priests, Hags etc. running around. He also might cast the Corruptors spell which is great against hordes. 
2. Pilepiper backing up 30 Plaguebearers is pretty big and hard to shift. 30 wounds with 5++ is no joke and when you have the ripe-****** ontop to prevent pile-ins it can really bog down otherwise killy units. This is further compounded by the Khorne DP that cuts charges in half, really reducing those long bomb charges that some units do. People are used to just moving 1 unit into combt and piling the remaining, but this will be a big mistake with ripe-****** from the Pilepiper. 
3. Corrupted with the Fourfold artefact - This guy is a pretty big beast and I imagine him running around on his own, threatning objectives or going along with the blob of 30 PBs to deliver a serious punch.
4. Be'lakor is really just.. There. Im incredibly disappointed at the "update" they did. His damage is not that good and sitting at 380 pts. he is essentially taking up a major threat slot, which he just isnt. Being able to point at something and often times lock them down is pretty damn good, especially ontop of the other shenanigans such as the Khorne DP halving charges and pipepiber preventing pile-in. Im not entirely sure if he is worth his points though, since he is pretty meh afterwards. I see him as a model you push out on a flank and attempt to assault an objective that is guarded by something like 10 Skinks. He will likely kill them/make the remaining run to battleshock, but he isnt much more than this IMO. He is a distraction that can take some damage, that is it. At the end of the day I wouldnt be surprised if you see lists not including Be'lakor in his own alligiance in favor of something else with more punch or simply more bodies + geminids etc. I think list #2 is more likely to win games.

 

Allegiance: Legion of Chaos Ascendant
- Host of Chaos: Legion of the First Prince

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Axe
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- Fourfold Blade
Be'lakor (380)
- General
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2010 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

 

 

 

Allegiance: Legion of Chaos Ascendant
- Host of Chaos: Legion of the First Prince

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Axe
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119

[Peegee]

7 hours ago, Kasper said:

Allegiance: Legion of Chaos Ascendant
- Host of Chaos: Legion of the First Prince

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Axe
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119

I'm planning on playing this approach but I feel like swapping the StD Demon Prince, 10 PB and Geminids for Be'lakor.

Even with the cost hike, he's very valuable and brings more to the table than halving run & charge (that's a great ability tough, don't read me wrong).

 

[demonlizardfromouterspace]

15 hours ago, Kasper said:

The alligiance went from being named "Legions of Chaos Ascendant" to "Legions of the First Prince"

The Legion of the First Prince is just a subfaction of Legion of Chaos Ascendant. Both options were already incuded in Wrath of the Everchosen. So still legal  And I think, it will stay for a while and maybe extended extended to other Daemon only armies with different focuses.

[Eldarain]

9 minutes ago, demonlizardfromouterspace said:

The Legion of the First Prince is just a subfaction of Legion of Chaos Ascendant. Both options were already incuded in Wrath of the Everchosen. So still legal  And I think, it will stay for a while and maybe extended extended to other Daemon only armies with different focuses.

The Allegiance is called Legion of the First Prince now. It specifically says it replaces both the Allegiance and Subfaction from Wrath of the Everchosen.

Unless the Battalions have been altered in the new book they won't be usable as the Keyword it uses isn't valid anymore.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Eldarain

[Kasper]

10 hours ago, Peegee said:

I'm planning on playing this approach but I feel like swapping the StD Demon Prince, 10 PB and Geminids for Be'lakor.

Even with the cost hike, he's very valuable and brings more to the table than halving run & charge (that's a great ability tough, don't read me wrong).

 

Yeah I dont hate this list at all. I think there is huge value in the Khorne DP. Halving charges is actually pretty big. Needing just a 7" charge normally is suddenly a big deal, especially when you couple it with the Bilepiper ripe-****** ability that prevents pile-ins. Suddenly witches arent that big of a deal in combat etc. I think overall you might actually lock down more combat units with the Khorne DP than with Be'lakor. It obviously does nothing against Seraphon/Lumineth shooting/magic etc. There is an issue with CPs though - You wont have CPs enough to both do reroll hits on the Corruptor to trigger his blade more often and also halving charges. 

 

Leaders
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- Artefact: Fourfold Blade
Be'lakor (380)
- General
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109

Edited April 20, 2021 by Kasper

[Roark]

On 4/18/2021 at 1:41 AM, Eldarain said:

Gutted all the Keyword based play of the Allegiance.

This was just so unnecessary. Bloodcrushers have been ****** throughout the entirety of AoS. These awesome models finally got a chance to shine a little in Wrath of the Everchosen... Deeply frustrating.

[Karazla]

i am looking to build a army with be'lakor and his new legion (sort of)

I want to bring it to a friend tournament we are playing later this year.
For know i have this

 

Be'Lakor 
- General
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- Artefact: Fourfold Blade
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (300)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
20 x Bloodletters (220)

Total: 1780 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94

And i have no idea how to go further along with the list
 

[demonlizardfromouterspace]

15 hours ago, Eldarain said:

The Allegiance is called Legion of the First Prince now. It specifically says it replaces both the Allegiance and Subfaction from Wrath of the Everchosen

You are right! Just watched again a review of the book. Really didnt expect that they would merge the two into a single faction.

[Eldarain]

A real shame imo as there just isn't much to it now. 

[Gristlegut]

Question: what strategy are you using for summoning? Are you bringing in more PB or Pinks?

[Gristlegut]

I would also like to know if you guys have a 1k list brewing with the new book and points for Be'lakor. Escalation league starts in May.

[Kasper]

7 hours ago, Gristlegut said:

Question: what strategy are you using for summoning? Are you bringing in more PB or Pinks?

Probably Pinks most of the time. Keep in mind banner/horn guy is per every 10 model, so since you are summoning 5 you can not field a banner guy which is a bummer. 5 Pinks is still 25 wounds vs 10 wounds on Plaguebearers. Sure you got the 5++ on PBs, but theres a 6++ on all the 25 wounds on the Pinks.

There might come a situation where you want to use the 10 PBs as a screen or want 10 bodies right away on an objective but otherwise 5 Pinks is worth more than 10 PBs pound for pound. It is also significant since more wounds means more chance of the unit living until your next turn where the D3 return might kick in - Even if you can only return 1 Pink rather than D3, 1 Pink is 5 wounds.    

[Gristlegut]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:23 PM, Kasper said:

Probably Pinks most of the time. Keep in mind banner/horn guy is per every 10 model, so since you are summoning 5 you can not field a banner guy which is a bummer. 5 Pinks is still 25 wounds vs 10 wounds on Plaguebearers. Sure you got the 5++ on PBs, but theres a 6++ on all the 25 wounds on the Pinks.

There might come a situation where you want to use the 10 PBs as a screen or want 10 bodies right away on an objective but otherwise 5 Pinks is worth more than 10 PBs pound for pound. It is also significant since more wounds means more chance of the unit living until your next turn where the D3 return might kick in - Even if you can only return 1 Pink rather than D3, 1 Pink is 5 wounds.    

Thanks Kasper, good points. Along those thoughts, Would adding a Gaunt Summoner to the list be valuable? I like his spell that is similiar to VC's. 

 

[Rozza the dogga]

On 4/21/2021 at 6:23 AM, Kasper said:

Probably Pinks most of the time. Keep in mind banner/horn guy is per every 10 model, so since you are summoning 5 you can not field a banner guy which is a bummer. 5 Pinks is still 25 wounds vs 10 wounds on Plaguebearers. Sure you got the 5++ on PBs, but theres a 6++ on all the 25 wounds on the Pinks.

There might come a situation where you want to use the 10 PBs as a screen or want 10 bodies right away on an objective but otherwise 5 Pinks is worth more than 10 PBs pound for pound. It is also significant since more wounds means more chance of the unit living until your next turn where the D3 return might kick in - Even if you can only return 1 Pink rather than D3, 1 Pink is 5 wounds.    

Just as a heads-up, only the pinks get the 6++, not the brims and blues.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Rozza the dogga

[Mandollies]

17 minutes ago, Rozza the dogga said:

Just as a heads-up, only the pinks get the 6++, not the brims and blues.

Pinks only get the 6++ on their Warscroll yes; but the entire army gets a 6++ from the Allegiance Battle Trait so the Blues/Brims use that instead.

[Gristlegut]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:09 PM, Gristlegut said:

I would also like to know if you guys have a 1k list brewing with the new book and points for Be'lakor. Escalation league starts in May.

Here is another approach on the 2k list. The drones can be anti-charge with the Bilepiper but could also follow VC and get the +1 to attacks as a hammer.

Allegiance: Legion of Chaos Ascendant - Host of Chaos: Legion of the First Prince

LEADERS

Be'Lakor (380) - General - Spell: Echo of Hatred Kairos

Fateweaver (400) - Spell: Echo of Hatred

Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade - Spell: Spirit Gouge

Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

UNITS

30 x Plaguebearers (300)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

3 x Plague Drones (190)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Umbral Spellportal (70)

I am still looking for any ideas for 1k. Take Be'Lakor or leave him out at 1k?

 

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Gristlegut
Grammer.