Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Falkman]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 1:08 PM, Falkman said:

I think this is going to be my initial goal list to build towards. I really like the look of the Stoenguard but rules-wise the seem pretty weak compared to the rest of the stuff in the army so they will not make the cut initially. For nation I think Iliatha or Zaitrec are the most interesting (and they don't have any dumb melee traits or artefacts that I have to take for my wizard heroes…)

Eltharion - 220 pts
Alarith Stonemage - 130 pts
Scinari Cathallar - 140 pts
20 Wardens - 240 pts
20 Wardens - 240 pts
10 Sentinels - 140 pts
10 Sentinels - 140 pts
5 Dawnriders - 130 pts
5 Dawnriders - 130 pts
Spirit of the Mountain - 340 pts
Auralan Legion - 120 pts
Hyshian Twinstones - 30 pts
2000 pts total

All right, so update since we know all the traits and artefacts now.

Great nation of Iliatha
Eltharion - 220 pts
Alarith Stonemage - 130 pts - Simulacra amulet, Voice of the mountains
Scinari Cathallar - 140 pts - General, Warmaster, Silver wand, Total eclipse
20 Wardens - 240 pts - Protection of Hysh
20 Wardens - 240 pts - Ethereal blessing
10 Sentinels - 140 pts - Speed of Hysh
10 Sentinels - 140 pts - Speed of Hysh
5 Dawnriders - 130 pts - Lambent light
5 Dawnriders - 130 pts - Lambent light
Spirit of the Mountain - 340 pts
Auralan Legion - 120 pts
Hyshian Twinstones - 30 pts
2000 pts total

I'm surprisingly happy with both the command traits and artefacts, in a lot of the books most of these feel like afterthoughts and with one very clear winner, but I think most of our options look good and interesting.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Falkman

[Falkman]

Solar flare seems to be a very difficult spell to use right though, since you can only cast it 10" away and it will then make spell casting and unbinding more difficult for all your wizards within 12" of that spot. So it seems like you can only really put it to good use if you cast it with a unit that has moved ahead of the rest of your army.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Falkman

[Tiberius501]

Question: I haven’t played Sigmar for a good while, what are the additional benefits of a Battalion? Extra starting CP and an extra artefact? 

[Falkman]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Question: I haven’t played Sigmar for a good while, what are the additional benefits of a Battalion? Extra starting CP and an extra artefact? 

Yes, the baseline benefits is starting the game with an extra CP and getting to pick an extra artefact of power. If you have an army that can take mount traits or similar then you can usually also take an extra of those when you take a battalion.

[Tiberius501]

3 minutes ago, Falkman said:

Yes, the baseline benefits is starting the game with an extra CP and getting to pick an extra artefact of power. If you have an army that can take mount traits or similar then you can usually also take an extra of those when you take a battalion.

Awesome thanks. Also curious on some opinions: if you only have 20 points left, is it worth getting the named cow over the generic one? I’m unsure He’s worth it due to his rend and to-wound Being worse, though he does get more attacks. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Tiberius501

[Jaskier]

Trying to fit Auralan Legion, Teclis and two other heroes together is actually quite difficult. Teclis plus one Cathaller might be fine on its own, but that wasted extra artefact (especially when a second Cathaller could take an artefact that lets them cast an extra spell) is a bitter pill to swallow. I think the bare minimum for board presence in a Legion list needs to be 2x20 Auralan Warders, 2x10 Auralan Sentinels and 1x5 Auralan Dawnriders, but fitting in endless spells on top of that (i.e. Spellportal because of how good it is with Teclis) gets really tough with the extra hero. 

Also, I know I'm late to the party, but I only just realized Teclis automatically knows all the spells of both spell lores 😍 Means I'm not as inclined to take a Stonemage over a second Cathaller, though there are obviously pros and cons to both. This is the kind of list I'm sitting on currently, haven't figured out spell selection yet and am pretty sold on Zaitrec; 

Zaitrec
Teclis - 660
Scinari Cathaller - General, Fast Learner, Gift of Celennar - 140

20 Auralan Wardens - 240
20 Auralan Wardens - 240
10 Auralan Sentinels - 140
10 Auralan Sentinels - 140
5 Auralan Dawnriders - 130 

Auralan Legion - 120
Umbral Spellportal - 70

Total - 1880/2000

Leaves me 120 points to spare, so no extra hero unless I take an Idoneth ally choice (but that doesn't seem worthwhile, especially as they don't get allegiance rules or artefacts.) Is it worth sacrificing the Spellportal to get an extra Cathaller or extra unit of Dawnriders, or is sticking with the Spellportal and wringing something else out the better option? I'm really torn, as Spellportal enables Teclis to act as magical artillery from turn one onwards, whereas more objective grabbers/battleshock-manipulating heroes are extremely good too. I could keep the Spellportal and add 10 Wardens to one of the units (a whole separate unit won't fit in the battalion without taking an extra unit of Sentinels too, and adds to my drop count which is antithetical to taking the battalion in the first place) or just spend those remaining points on more endless spells seeing as even Vanari units can cast them. The final option is to drop the battalion altogether to fit a second Cathaller in; lowering drops is the biggest loss, as the second Cathaller would mitigate the loss of a CP thanks to their battleshock-immunity on a 2+ roll - though re-rolling save rolls of 1 is also pretty tough to give up. It's so tough to write a good list around Teclis and fit everything you need!

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Jaskier

[Falkman]

1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:

Awesome thanks. Also curious on some opinions: if you only have 20 points left, is it worth getting the named cow over the generic one? I’m unsure He’s worth it due to his rend and to-wound Being worse, though he does get more attacks. 

The cows are really interesting in my opinion, since usually the named model "upgrade" is just better but in this case they are different. I am planning on running the regular one because of the better rend and damage output, but Avalenor's buffs are MUCH better. Avalenor's -1 to hit-aura affects every enemy model in range whereas the normal cow's aura only affects a single enemy unit. Avalenor's attack buff also improves more than one unit, but that's only relevant if you are playing multiple Stoneguard units. Finally Avalenor's "free CP"-buff has a bigger range than the regular cow's so is easier to use.

Basically I would say that if you want better melee output from the cow you take the regular one, but if you want better buffs you take Avalenor.

[Jaskier]

Does anyone else feel like the Sanctum of Amyntok could be an interesting addition for a unit of Dawnriders (assuming 5 of them can fit inside) for only 30 points? It and the caster count as one model with the Sanctum using the casters' warscroll as well as its own rules, and it doesn't prohibit movement in any way (explained below.) It just sounds like a very amusing way to make a super fast (especially with Speed of Hysh) flanking/harassment unit a giant annoyance for an opponent. It might mean potentially losing out on attacks (depending on how 'the caster' interacts with the unit leader being the wizard and how that applies to the rest of the unit) but it greatly improves their tarpit/shutdown potential by preserving the -1 to be hit (as they lose the Shining Company bonus if you want to charge with them) and giving them a 3+ save (potentially 2+ for one round with aetherquartz.) The spell has other uses too, like for small units that still have Shining Company active to hold objectives, but that particular usage of it just sounds really amusing to me (not necessarily smart or competitive, just funny - "cavalry charge, brace for impa...good gods, are they dragging a WALL with them!?")  

Just for clarity, the Sanctum uses the exact same wording as the Balewind Vortex except that the Vortex specifically states the caster can't move, whereas the Sanctum doesn't have this restriction. 

[ArchaicArc]

How does the rule about us selecting two units in the combat phase work exactly? Do we pick two, every time we have a turn to select, or just the 1st selection. And is it an innate ability or aetherquartz?

Edited June 25, 2020 by ArchaicArc

[Tiberius501]

7 minutes ago, ArchaicArc said:

How does the rule about us selecting two units in the combat phase work exactly? Do we pick two, every time we have a turn to select, or just the 1st selection. And is it an innate ability or aetherquartz?

It seems to be every time we’d pick a unit to fight in the fight phase, we get to pick a second one to fight as well. And it is one of our main innate abilities. Seems really strong. 

[TheHarrower]

6 hours ago, Sleepers said:

For games with friends, I’ll definitely pass the bravery debuff to them instead my units, but I doubt I’ll force them to take my battle shock test, it’s probably the one thing in the book that I see as being a negative play experience for the opponent.

In the games I’ve played, I didn’t even have an option to use it yet. Making an opponent spend 2 CPS for 1 is pretty negative. So is the Umbral Spell Portal with Teclis and all those mortal wounds. 

[Jaskier]

Lightning Reactions is fantastic both offensively and defensively; offensively as you can charge with multiple units and be safe in the knowledge two will fight before the opponent can react, and also defensively on your opponents' turn as it will force them to make tough choices on which unit to fight with first as more than one of their units can get counter-attacked in turn before they get their chance to choose a second unit to fight with. With how dangerous our Wardens, Dawnriders (against low-wound units), monsters and Eltharion are up close, enemies will have to really gauge whether getting stuck in is worth the losses they'll take in turn. 

And yes, our aetherquartz abilities are indeed separate to Lightning Reactions. 

[Sleepers]

17 minutes ago, TheHarrower said:

In the games I’ve played, I didn’t even have an option to use it yet. Making an opponent spend 2 CPS for 1 is pretty negative. So is the Umbral Spell Portal with Teclis and all those mortal wounds. 

Oh yeah, I don’t plan on doing either of those things in friendly matches either.

[Acid_Nine]

6 hours ago, woolf said:

Yeah so I bought the Greenstuff World Chameleon Set 2 which includes: Mystic Gold, Tropical Green, Storm Surge Green, Emerald Getaway, Red Goblin and Martian Green. I havent actually tried to brush them on but when I looked around online the advice generally seemed to be to airbrush them although the company says you can brush them on as well. I would think you probably need to go with a lot of thin layers (probably 5+ coats) if you brush them if you want a good effect so could be a bit time consuming. Through airbrush though it was straight forward to use them. 

The Martian Green and Red Goblin are the ones I seemed to get the most pronounced color shift effect, for the others it was more a slight "shimmer" or not much effect at all (e.g. Mystic gold just came out as uniform green/gold with no real shifting for me)

Attaching some pictures (mobile camera so the quality is pretty poor - maybe a bit helpful anyways..) the eel is done with Martian Green, but the effect is actually much stronger on that than what shows on the picture I would say (I also used a matt varnish on the eel which diminished the effect a bit although didnt kill it).

Ofc dont want to discourage! you should try for yourself, main advice though, make sure to have a glossy black to put them on (otherwise they dont work at all). And you can get some really cool effects with these paints, they just need a bit of work

Cheers,

 

Thank you so much! I am hoping to get the mystic gold for weapons, but I really have to ask what that shaman's paint is, or the Ungor's in the bottom picture, or pretty much all of them, as I'm trying to find a good fit for Ziatrec's armor

[woolf]

38 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

Thank you so much! I am hoping to get the mystic gold for weapons, but I really have to ask what that shaman's paint is, or the Ungor's in the bottom picture, or pretty much all of them, as I'm trying to find a good fit for Ziatrec's armor

ok so order top left to bottom rigth:

tropical green

emerald getaway (I think)

mystic gold 

red goblin (shaman)

storm surge green (I think)

i might be confusing storm surge green and emerald getaway as it was a while and haven't used them since. i just sprayed this warband to see the effect really. in any case I bought them in a set, not sure they are sold individually (unless u have a local store or smth that carry the range)

I believe there are also 2 other sets so there exists more shades of this.

Edited June 25, 2020 by woolf

[SireScott]

So I've given it some thought and this army looks great in math hammer but feels hard to see how to make it work well in a game. For example if you can get wardens stood on a midfield objective in a shining company stood near avalenor, with protection of hysh, then you have this really points efficient unit on defence and offence. But then I note this is a movement 6 unit, that loses its key defensive buff if it runs or charges and I wonder how that unit ever gets to a midfield objective before the opponent

[ArchaicArc]

2 minutes ago, SireScott said:

So I've given it some thought and this army looks great in math hammer but feels hard to see how to make it work well in a game. For example if you can get wardens stood on a midfield objective in a shining company stood near avalenor, with protection of hysh, then you have this really points efficient unit on defence and offence. But then I note this is a movement 6 unit, that loses its key defensive buff if it runs or charges and I wonder how that unit ever gets to a midfield objective before the opponent

There’s a spell to double movement, which should be clutch, and then the others can run. Also cavalry with a great base movement can move up in  formation, or better yet, not, run them ahead, charge and clear out the objective with enough of them or delay the enemy long enough to get your guys in position. I’m planning on using a thin bovine line of hammer dudes to run forward, can’t shining company anyway, just to sacrifice them as a speed bump to get my army into position on objectives. You only need to hold two to win most games, or maybe even one clutch one, and then use your flanking cavalry to clean up the infantry blocks which hold the other objectives and archers to mortal wound their supporting heroes to death.

[TheHarrower]

6 minutes ago, SireScott said:

So I've given it some thought and this army looks great in math hammer but feels hard to see how to make it work well in a game. For example if you can get wardens stood on a midfield objective in a shining company stood near avalenor, with protection of hysh, then you have this really points efficient unit on defence and offence. But then I note this is a movement 6 unit, that loses its key defensive buff if it runs or charges and I wonder how that unit ever gets to a midfield objective before the opponent

Great observation. In play it isn’t easy. Lots of stuff to consider and you aren’t going to have all of your buffs up all the time. All of the “OMG this army is so OP!” is just people not understanding how they work in play. 

[Chumphammer]

7 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Question: I haven’t played Sigmar for a good while, what are the additional benefits of a Battalion? Extra starting CP and an extra artefact? 

Hey, dont think I saw a reply

So yes, a battalion gives you +1 cp and +1 artifact, plus the artifact ability for the units in the battalion

The extra bonus is numbers of drops.

For instance, with our lance, we can have 3 units of Dawnriders for 1 drop. Or the legion. you get the hero, up to 4 units of Archers and equal numbers of wardens, for 1 drop. so that's a potential of 9 units for 1 drop.

Some armies are designed that they need to go first. Like if you take teclis, you need to go 1st really to get his buffs up.  

Since some other armies can get good 2-4 drop armies, you kind of need to get a 2 - 3 drop list to get 1st turn (if you need it)


 

[Chumphammer]

So I got a reply back from Ben Curry on the Eltharion/Magic thing:

 

[Benalow]

Newcomer to the forums! Saw all the hype and I'm really looking forward to these guys, currently I play Sylvaneth, and mostly just play with my brother who is Nighthaunt, but he is going to go OSR and I'm going for LRL for my second army. Even though I haven't played in a tournament yet, I do like competitive builds, and the tactics involved. Now that that's out of the way my initial thoughts about the LRL are:

1. Really dependent on the Hero Phase. If Teclis is in the army it is unlikely an opponent will field something that can reliably get an 11 to unbind, 4 times, and assuming there isn't anything else they wish to attempt to unbind.  On paper it looks like even Slann are going to have an issue, and that spell that requires 2 CP instead of 1, I feel almost shuts down Seraphon.

2. Zaitrec battleline get the Overwhelming Heat spell as they are considered wizards, + Power of Hysh, and get +1 for that first spell. Which makes for a nasty combo, while the wizard heroes get an additional spell, again with the same +1 at minimum.

3. Getting to objectives is going to be difficult. The slow movement coupled with Shining Company is really going to slow down the army, even with the spell that gives double movement, so it leads me to think having a couple units of Stoneguard with their Tectonic Force trait will be key to pushing off horde or sticky battleline off objectives that you couldn't get to fast enough.

4. Sentinels in a group of at least 20+ can snipe off a single Mortek Crawler first round if buffed correctly, of course dice are dice, but it's possible.

5. Last initial thought for now is that it is imperative to go first. I firmly think having a 3 drop maximum will be the key here against armies that can alpha strike OR have nasty artillery that can snipe/bracket Teclis early on.

I'm gonna fiddle around with some lists with the different Nations, but all of them look awesome and viable/fun to play! 

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, Benalow said:

Newcomer to the forums! Saw all the hype and I'm really looking forward to these guys, currently I play Sylvaneth, and mostly just play with my brother who is Nighthaunt, but he is going to go OSR and I'm going for LRL for my second army. Even though I haven't played in a tournament yet, I do like competitive builds, and the tactics involved. Now that that's out of the way my initial thoughts about the LRL are:

1. Really dependent on the Hero Phase. If Teclis is in the army it is unlikely an opponent will field something that can reliably get an 11 to unbind, 4 times, and assuming there isn't anything else they wish to attempt to unbind.  On paper it looks like even Slann are going to have an issue, and that spell that requires 2 CP instead of 1, I feel almost shuts down Seraphon.

2. Zaitrec battleline get the Overwhelming Heat spell as they are considered wizards, + Power of Hysh, and get +1 for that first spell. Which makes for a nasty combo, while the wizard heroes get an additional spell, again with the same +1 at minimum.

3. Getting to objectives is going to be difficult. The slow movement coupled with Shining Company is really going to slow down the army, even with the spell that gives double movement, so it leads me to think having a couple units of Stoneguard with their Tectonic Force trait will be key to pushing off horde or sticky battleline off objectives that you couldn't get to fast enough.

4. Sentinels in a group of at least 20+ can snipe off a single Mortek Crawler first round if buffed correctly, of course dice are dice, but it's possible.

5. Last initial thought for now is that it is imperative to go first. I firmly think having a 3 drop maximum will be the key here against armies that can alpha strike OR have nasty artillery that can snipe/bracket Teclis early on.

I'm gonna fiddle around with some lists with the different Nations, but all of them look awesome and viable/fun to play! 

Welcome, and I hope you enjoy the sunlight!

Total eclipse is a great spell, but it is balanced by the needing an 8+ to cast, so unless you have teclis you have to buff your castings via the Twinstones, or else get an 8 consistently, which can be doable.

your thoughts pretty much align with most of the board here, with the added bonus of Zaitrec's battleline getting Overwhelming heat and +1 spell from the lore, which can combo quite nicely with out units or with certain spells.  Just remember thatyou can break the shining company at any time too, to try and run on an objective or to try and get a charge off against scary units such as Skullcrushers or blood knights / need a unit to strike first. It's a good buff to be sure, but I advocate not soley relying on it too much. 

I agree with point 4 and 5 quite a bit I am thinking of using my archers to snipe characters and be THAT guy, but in general I feel we could do pretty well against Petrifax OBR in general because we can bypass the armor. Say what you will about the health of the game, but it's a nifty ability to bring. 

[Chumphammer]

So looking at twinstones, it doesnt matter how many points you use from the dice pool, it resets to 1 after that spell is cast. So its probably best to use its ability every time you hit 3 on the counter?  means every 3rd spell you can add plus 3 to cast from it

Alternatively, since it starts with 1 and every time you use it, it goes back to 1, maybe just cast using that +1 every spell?

Edited June 25, 2020 by Chumphammer

[ArchaicArc]

Im still dying to find out what our DRIVE is. Like each faction has a clear objective and reason for interacting with the mortal realms, orruks are hunting beasties, Fyre Slayers are looking for Ur-Gold etc. And although each of our myriad of personal armies and forces will have our own personal narratives, I want to discover what is our factions over-reaching goal. It could be resource based, but the aetherquartz seems pretty unique to Hysh, it could be invasion, being lords of our realm we are seeking a foothold in others, although that seems a little too banal...

Any theories?

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, Chumphammer said:

So looking at twinstones, it doesnt matter how many points you use from the dice pool, it resets to 1 after that spell is cast. So its probably best to use its ability every time you hit 3 on the counter?  means every 3rd spell you can add plus 3 to cast from it

Alternatively, since it starts with 1 and every time you use it, it goes back to 1, maybe just cast using that +1 every spell?

I’m sure both will happen, and also will depend of course on your army and situation. If you play with Zaitrec, Teclis, and the Twinstomes, you could already have a +3 for several units, so re-setting it every time might be the way to go. 

On the other hand you might need to plan ahead for a spell you really want to cast (and don’t have Teclis), and go for a higher modifier. 

There are so many options with this army, I’m sure you’ll often find yourself in a “if I only had done x instead of y” situation. 

@ArchaicArc In the Wrath of the Everchosen and Soulbound they gave a few reasons - mainly that Teclis and Morathi are afraid that Slaanesh will come free soon. And they have to engage with the other Realms to prevent that. Soulbound also mentioned that the Necroquake shocked Teclis and Hysh pretty hard, so they might just have the feeling that they have to fight Chaos/Death/Destruction also in the other Realms, to secure Hysh. Tyrion seems not to be convinced and that’s the reason he’s not there. That would be the old dichotomy Of thinking between the twins - focus on their homeland to keep them safe, or engage with the outer world to keep them safe.

But, thinking about it, there are already people now who’ve read the tome, so they can give you the actual answer, lol.