Reuben Parker Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 So looking at the mission pack I think savage gains which I’ll be playing for one round on Saturday can be pretty effectively “hacked” by the Kraken Eater. My plan going in which may change depending on opponent is simple.  kick my home objective straight forward and run all my dudes up in a blob in the middle. Auto run one 6 to steal their home objective. SoB will be scoring 6VP and you deny them scoring more than 3VP max and probably just 2VP as you just flood their home objective. It’s especially powerful as you only score 2VP no matter how many objectives you hold that are in no mans land.  unfortunately I think that’s the only objective in the current GHB that is really open to kick abuse. Although playing the other missions I’ve found kicking two objectives out of three close together and parking all your dudes between them is a pretty good plan on hold 2 hold more missions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripchimeras Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 So far with my playtesting I have mostly been leaning towards 4 megas as to my ideal tourney build, which I'm finding really surprising. Because when I first saw we could do it, I thought it just seemed like a fun gimmick list. But having played a few games with 4 megas and one or 2 with 3 mancrusher, I've found the 4 megas to be a bit better so far. They are just so good at denying most lists VP and pretty much can always get theirs. So far from my limited testing it feels like it makes up for the decreased flexibility/ board control of the mancrushers with this ability, and in some ways actually gives them more flexibility because they don't have to push to maintain VP leads as hard, because they can usually guarantee opponents don't get their battletactic every single turn. However, there do appear to be a couple builds they really lag behind at least in my head (though I haven't actually gotten a chance to play them). Gotrek in particular gives me pause when thinking of 4 megas as a legit tourney build. I think if you stick him in a middle of the road cities army or whatever, a 4 mega taker tribe list has plenty of tools to play avoidance while still getting enough VP to win. But you stick Gotrek in the middle of an LRL or Seraphon list that really punishes you for playing avoidance and it feels like a different story. On average he should do just under a full mega gargant worth of wounds a turn. Meanwhile a fully CA/heroic action buffed gatebreaker on the charge doing as many mortals as possible still only manages just under 4 wounds to gotrek, which means you throw 2 mega's into Gotrek you are probably killing him something like 30% of the time (not good...). So this feels like a prime build where you really miss the mancrushers. Because you have nothing to feed gotrek/ don't have the killing power of 3 mancrushers to reliably 1 shot him (3 mancrusher unit + 1 buffed up mega should usually kill him in 1 go). So you either have to hope Gotrek takes away enough of the shooting elements that you can weather 3-4 rounds of shooting without engaging much, or B they divide their forces and allow you to whittle them down without having to sac megas to Gotrek. I think you basically can afford to Sack 1 mega to him a game if it is for a meaningful reason, then you have to hope the other 1500 pts of opponents army can't kill more then 1 more mega, all while you ideally are racking up all your VPs. This is the type of build that makes me lean a little bit more towards 2 or 3 megas again. But not only do I enjoy playing 4 mega's more (both the novelty of the 4 model army and just the playstyle so far has been really enjoyable for me), I think in most matches they are slightly more versatile. Like a 4 mega taker tribe doesn't really need to exert a ton of board control to win in most matchups, because they are basically never going to lose on an objective, and have so many easy paths to battle tactic VPs. I also don't think we really need that combat oomph from 3 mancrushers most of the time, because there aren't many units in the game we NEED to smash to take a W, we usually can avoid them or already are killy enough. I think its really just the mobile chaff thing that is the issue holding me back from fully committing to a 4 mega list. I think they only end up mattering in a small handful of matchups, but those matchups seem likely to place high in the meta, which makes them more meaningful... Wondering how others have been experiencing this? I think the good news is we have multiple valid builds, and it doesn't seem like one is obviously a lot better overall then the others right now. But on the flip side trying to plan for summer/fall tourney's is really hard right now because I'm so indecisive about how many Megas to take haha. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entombet Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Thinking about starting second army, how do you think giants will be in 3.0, better than now?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Played my first 2 3.0 games with SoB last night. Simple 4 Mega list Gatebreaker Tribe, Idiots with Flags Gatebreaker: General, 5+ Ward, Louder than Words Gatebreaker War Stomper War Stomper Played against a mixed Celestial Vindicators list with some Dominion stuff and a range of solid traditional units. I'll do full reports later, but basically it was a complete whitewash. At no point in either games did I feel like there was much chance of winning. The 5+ Ward generic artefact is crazy good, we're amazing at missions, the command abilities, hero abilities and monster abilities cover up a lot of our short comings. First game I was 20 VPs ahead and winning the fighting by the end of turn 2. Second game I auto won turn 3.  Bare in mind this was my first game of 3rd against a good opponent who has played a few games. 3rd is definitely SoBs time to shine (except against Gotrek,  ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Congratz Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 On 7/9/2021 at 9:45 AM, Magnus The Blue said: Played my first 2 3.0 games with SoB last night. Simple 4 Mega list Gatebreaker Tribe, Idiots with Flags Gatebreaker: General, 5+ Ward, Louder than Words Gatebreaker War Stomper War Stomper Played against a mixed Celestial Vindicators list with some Dominion stuff and a range of solid traditional units. I'll do full reports later, but basically it was a complete whitewash. At no point in either games did I feel like there was much chance of winning. The 5+ Ward generic artefact is crazy good, we're amazing at missions, the command abilities, hero abilities and monster abilities cover up a lot of our short comings. First game I was 20 VPs ahead and winning the fighting by the end of turn 2. Second game I auto won turn 3.  Bare in mind this was my first game of 3rd against a good opponent who has played a few games. 3rd is definitely SoBs time to shine (except against Gotrek,  ) How was it not running a kraken eater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, Congratz said: How was it not running a kraken eater? It was fine, the smaller battlefield (and large bases) made it feel like could take the centre and then pop on all the objectives at will, so didn't really miss booting them around.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 But dbl Gateys are AWESOME! Supersmash bros. Kraken-eater has helped about half the time, the other half the kicking hasn't made a difference. I still have to try the Warstomper one of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danimo Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) I took my Sons of Behemat to their first one-day 3.0 tournament today and went 3-0, taking home first. My list: Breaker Tribe - Idiots with Flags Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant - General with Louder Than Words, Amulet of Destiny Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant Warstomper Mega-Gargant Warstomper Mega-Gargant Game 1 was Power Struggle vs Tempests Eye duardin. 30 Irondrakes, two Runelords, Warden King, Hurricanum, 2x20 Ironbreakers, 2x10 Hammerers, 2x1 Gyrobombers. Unleash Hell from the Irondrakes did 14 wounds to the general on the bottom of Round 1, but a lucky 10" charge from a Warstomper managed to tie up the irondrakes and I got the double turn to just stomp all over the dwarves. Game 2 was Feral Foray vs Soulblight Gravelords (Kastelai). Prince Vhordrai, Vengorian Lord, Belladamma Volga, 3x5 Blood Knights, 2x10 wolves, 10 skeletons, 20 zombies. Vengorian lords are tankier than they look. Trying to cover my 3 objective against gravesites and flanking knights and also push toward his is very difficult, I figured I just had to sit back and let him make the first move. He got the double turn and made a push on my left objective with almost every unit, but the lone Warstomper guarding it managed to survive and deny the point. He took the first turn of Round 3, which let me remove my left objective before he could burn it. Then the 5+ ward general proved too much for Vhordrai to handle before all 3 remaining gargants could converge and start to wipe out his army while holding on to a small VP lead. My favorite game of the day. Game 3 was Savage Gains vs Ossiarch Bonereapers (Petrifex). Nagash, Arkhan, 3x10 Mortek Guard, 1 Mortek Crawler, Burning Head. His list was basically a combo army: Arkhan can still spam Mystic Shield, and Nagash can cast Protection of Nagash on himself and run the Burning Head into himself for a teleport that still lets him move in the next phase. So turn 1 he goes first, gives Nagash four Mystic Shields, several Arcane Bolts and teleports thens moves to 3" away from a Warstomper, but fails to kill it (thus failing to score a Battle Tactic he chose). I realized that even if I kill Arkhan (he dies in round 2) and get him down to 1 Mystic Shield its still just too hard to kill Nagash. So I do lots of retreating, I have a warstomper and a gatebreaker just ignore Nagash and start clearing out the rest of his army while Nagash spends too much time killing two gargants to take my home objective. In the 4th round its just two megas vs Nagash, but I manage to get up to 30 VP and despite tabling me on the top of Round 5 he can't catch up. It was a strong showing and I had a good time. Edited July 11, 2021 by danimo 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Glad to hear the Sons are gettin the job done right. Congratulations! Do you think the double Gateys with Loathing outweighs the Taker Tribe objective model count (which would also require using a single Gatey in 2k for 4 megas)? Reason I ask is there's a 3000 point tournie in September. I'm having difficulty deciding between Taker Tribe and Breaker Tribe. I'm also hankering to bring along Kragnos. It's between a Gatebreaker/2 Warstompers/1 Kraken-Eater/2 single Mancrushers/ Kragnos or 2 Gatebreakers/2 Warstompers/1 Kraken-Eater/3 single Mancrushers Taker Tribe will almost always win on objective counts, but even with the CAs and Titanic Duels and Finest Hours, the Gateys sure do like to hate things and hit them better naturally. Guess Breaker Tribe is best with multiple Gatebreakers. Sidenote, I noticed Warscroll Builder isn't letting me make a unit of 3 Mancrushers. Anyone else have that glitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazhoath Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 4 hours ago, danimo said: I took my Sons of Behemat to their first one-day 3.0 tournament today and went 3-0, taking home first. My list: Breaker Tribe - Idiots with Flags Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant - General with Louder Than Words, Amulet of Destiny Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant Warstomper Mega-Gargant Warstomper Mega-Gargant Game 1 was Power Struggle vs Tempests Eye duardin. 30 Irondrakes, two Runelords, Warden King, Hurricanum, 2x20 Ironbreakers, 2x10 Hammerers, 2x1 Gyrobombers. Unleash Hell from the Irondrakes did 14 wounds to the general on the bottom of Round 1, but a lucky 10" charge from a Warstomper managed to tie up the irondrakes and I got the double turn to just stomp all over the dwarves. Game 2 was Feral Foray vs Soulblight Gravelords (Kastelai). Prince Vhordrai, Vengorian Lord, Belladamma Volga, 3x5 Blood Knights, 2x10 wolves, 10 skeletons, 20 zombies. Vengorian lords are tankier than they look. Trying to cover my 3 objective against gravesites and flanking knights and also push toward his is very difficult, I figured I just had to sit back and let him make the first move. He got the double turn and made a push on my left objective with almost every unit, but the lone Warstomper guarding it managed to survive and deny the point. He took the first turn of Round 3, which let me remove my left objective before he could burn it. Then the 5+ ward general proved too much for Vhordrai to handle before all 3 remaining gargants could converge and start to wipe out his army while holding on to a small VP lead. My favorite game of the day. Game 3 was Savage Gains vs Ossiarch Bonereapers (Petrifex). Nagash, Arkhan, 3x10 Mortek Guard, 1 Mortek Crawler, Burning Head. His list was basically a combo army: Arkhan can still spam Mystic Shield, and Nagash can cast Protection of Nagash on himself and run the Burning Head into himself for a teleport that still lets him move in the next phase. So turn 1 he goes first, gives Nagash four Mystic Shields, several Arcane Bolts and teleports thens moves to 3" away from a Warstomper, but fails to kill it (thus failing to score a Battle Tactic he chose). I realized that even if I kill Arkhan (he dies in round 2) and get him down to 1 Mystic Shield its still just too hard to kill Nagash. So I do lots of retreating, I have a warstomper and a gatebreaker just ignore Nagash and start clearing out the rest of his army while Nagash spends too much time killing two gargants to take my home objective. In the 4th round its just two megas vs Nagash, but I manage to get up to 30 VP and despite tabling me on the top of Round 5 he can't catch up. It was a strong showing and I had a good time. Sry for that question but whats the pupose giving Nagash 4 Mystic Shields? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 4 hours ago, Drazhoath said: Sry for that question but whats the pupose giving Nagash 4 Mystic Shields? They stop rend. Although in fairness 3 is enough in Petrefex who ignore 1 rend already.  "Idiots with Flags" Gatebreakers are just amazing. The ability to toss a 2+/2+/-3/4 rock should not be underestimated. Makes it even hard to play the objective game against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entombet Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said: They stop rend. Although in fairness 3 is enough in Petrefex who ignore 1 rend already.  "Idiots with Flags" Gatebreakers are just amazing. The ability to toss a 2+/2+/-3/4 rock should not be underestimated. Makes it even hard to play the objective game against us. I thought you cant stack bonuses in 3.0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Entombet said: I thought you cant stack bonuses in 3.0? The max modier you can get is +1 but the FAQ clarified that this is after rend (so+3 save cancelled -2 rend and still gives you the max +1, but against rendless attacks is still giving you only +1 on the actual roll). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 If the Petrifex rule says they ignore Rend-1, or something like they treat Rend-1 as Rend-, then I don't think that's the same as them having a +1 to saves for that decreasing Rend stacking effect. Unless it's FAQd? Seems like some other units with shields have that wording (some sort of Seraphon I ran into at some point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Also this has probably been talked about but can we use a Linebreaker battalion with 1 Mega and 2 Mancrushers?  Looks like in the new GHB it says the Mancrushers are straight up Battleline, not Behemoths. Seems like now we cannot? But if that's the case could we use the Vanguard, and the Battle Regiment? One could do a Stomper Tribe with 1 Warstomper and 3x3 Mancrushers in that for a 1 drop army, which may or may not be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danimo Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said: Glad to hear the Sons are gettin the job done right. Congratulations! Do you think the double Gateys with Loathing outweighs the Taker Tribe objective model count (which would also require using a single Gatey in 2k for 4 megas)?  Counting as 20 per mega was good enough for the tournament. Kicking objectives would not have mattered in the first two rounds but the 3rd round was Savage Gains which is the premier battleplan for messing around with points via kicking. The gatebreakers were my main damage dealers so having just one would have changed things significantly. In the All-out Attack/Defense world having so many -3 rend attacks is very good. I will say that Taker tribe is probably very good against non-Taker tribe Sons, if you think you will be facing other mega-gargants. Edited July 11, 2021 by danimo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetoric Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Hey can somebody take a picture of the Bundo warscroll for me?  Running my mega alongside my IDK in a fun match and can’t find his scroll online.  Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdead909 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Here you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetoric Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 20 hours ago, Gdead909 said: Here you go Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 On 7/11/2021 at 11:02 PM, Lord Krungharr said: If the Petrifex rule says they ignore Rend-1, or something like they treat Rend-1 as Rend-, then I don't think that's the same as them having a +1 to saves for that decreasing Rend stacking effect. Unless it's FAQd? Seems like some other units with shields have that wording (some sort of Seraphon I ran into at some point). The new Petrifex reduces the enemies rend by 1 (to a minimum of 0), so it actually is like +1 save (but only against high rend attacks of more than 1 rend). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayerJ Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 How do we think a list like this would run in this edition? Gatebreaker Warstomper 2x3 mancrusher mobs Breaker tribe or stomper tribe? Amulet of Destiny on the breaker?  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 That's an excellent list; I'd go Stomper with that one. Seems like Stomper CAs are really versatile and can launch the Mancrushers forth to do massive amounts of damage where needed. The Gatey can always issue other CAs; and that one should have the Amulet. Keeps the damage lasting longer. I'm in the midst of magnetizing my 4th mega, this one is the actual model instead of a kitbashed one. Hoping the 1/4"x1/8" cylinders I have are strong enough for the Warstomper's club arm. Gotta magnetize my Cygor-in-exosuit one to be a Gatebreaker/Warstomper too. My fifth one will be a clockwork mega constructed and piloted by Chaos Duardin. Waiting for another Soul Grinder kit, gears from the Hellcannon and Chronomantic Cogs. If I have all 5 megas ready I'll run some combo of those and 2-3 Mancrushers in September's big Milwaukee event (if I get off the waitlist). If not I'll have Kragnos on standby. But by October's 2K event I'll be ready with 2 Gateys and 2 Stompers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnyt Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) Really think GW dropped the ball with adjusting SoB for 3rd edition. They pretty much win uncontested outside of very specific counterbuilds (Kragnos).  The ability to kick objectives while guaranteeing that you'll basically lock your opponent out of scoring for the first 3 turns while maxing out battle points is just something that doesn't seem balanced.  Here's my list for reference: It's Taker tribe for guaranteed objective control and 3 drops so I can generally dictate who goes first. Kraken Eater w/ -1 to hit command trait Gatebreaker w/ 5+ ward save artifact Warstomper (Battle Regiment) Mancrusher (Battle Regiment) Mancrusher (Battle Regiment) Mancrusher (Battle Regiment) 1995 points Grand Strategy: Keep battleline alive for automatic 3 points. Not even a debate. You're not gonna table me and everything is battleline. Turn 1: Ferocious advance for auto 3 points (usually with 2 mancrushers and the warstomper), I kick a home objective on my weakest flank towards the center while running the megas onto my opponents objectives. The mancrushers are vital here to hang back and cap my home objectives if I'm going first. If not and I have control of my home objectives, then I just chuck everything forward.  Turn 2 is savage spearhead for auto 3 points. After that, I cycle through destroy battleline unit for 3 points, bring it down for 3 points, and then usually the 5th turn doesn't matter but it's a cinch to pick up any of the other ones. Usually I do monstrous takeover wherever their monsters aren't. What's also insane is that the bonus VP for killing monsters is capped at one per turn, no matter how many monsters they kill that turn. This means that in almost every scenario, you'll give up at most 3 VP from this while likely getting at least 1 from the opponent. So, now that I think it's pretty well established that your additional battle tactic points should fairly well offset the possible points you'll give up by being an army of monsters. If your opponent is running 3+ monsters you might even come out ahead (Gatebreaker vs Treelord lol). What this really means for scoring is that by preventing your opponent scoring for 1 turn while maximizing your own points will put you up by an enormous margin. I've played probably 10 games of 3.0 and every single game has been pretty well determined by me scoring 7ish points to my opponents' 3 points for one turn and then just getting battle tactics. You can see some of my battle reports on the Sylvaneth page (not fun for my local meta to play against Sons anymore) Ok, let's go scenario by scenario.  Marking Territory: Auto gargant win- controlling objectives is what we do and there's no way an opponent can outcompete 135 "models" of objective control Savage Gains: I get 4 points for controlling your objective and you can't let me go first or else I plop 2 megas on your objective and guarantee the win. Any disproportionately high objective scoring mission hugely favors gargants and this one is no different. I expect my opponent to get at most 3 points at any time during the game while I should easily score 5-9 without any trouble. Fewer objectives means that losing a mega or 2 doesn't matter since the mancrushers can easily outcompete most everything. First Blood: Three midline objectives means I put a mega and mancrusher on each one and you somehow have to fit 45 models worth to contest it on each one. Turn 2 I kick my kraken objective towards the center to even further consolidate or away from a spooky enemy. This one is a little tough to score savage spearhead but since I'll be getting 3 points every turn while my opponent gets 1 at most, it's not a big deal. Power Struggle: Only scoring points for controlling objectives for consecutive turns is so favorable for us that it's unfair. This is where I'd even consider 2 kraken eaters for kicking. I've only played this once and by running 2 mancrushers across the entire table, I've been able to completely shut down my opponent's scoring. This is one of our weaker scenarios though, since you'll only ever get 3 objective points per turn. But this also means that scoring 3 points to your opponent's 1 point is a huge deal. Also where the unbalanced nature of monster bonus points for battle tactics is clear. For this scenario, denying your opponent's grand strategy at the cost of some objective play is completely reasonable and something to ask yourself at the start of each turn. Survival of the Fittest: Ironically this is one where we win by objectives and not by killing. Opposing predator units are likely killier than the megas but you know what? They only get one point for that while objectives are worth 3 per turn. So sure, kill all my megas with your predators while losing none in return and I'll still win on objectives and battle tactics (I have never lost all 3 megas and don't even think it's possible to do so if you remember that fighting is super optional in this army). 3 midline objectives also mean you have an enormous advantage with the 3 "squads" of 45 "models" Tectonic Interference:  It's like survival of the fittest except even more predictable and easy to win. Just kick a flank objective towards the center and go sit on it to win. That's it. That's all you have to do. Huge territories mean savage spearhead is automatic and as always, objective control spiralling early game is the key to success. Apex Predators: Extremely favorable. Megas are leaders. They move onto objectives. That's it. You win. Your opponent may have one leader that can bully a mega and steal an objective from you. But you know what? You've got 2 more and they're on a clock. And that clock is HEAVILY in your favor. Vice: Very interesting one but also one that's skewed towards you. Just move the megas to where your opponent's objectives will be while keeping one in the middle for turns 4 and 5. Mancrushers cap initially and then run to score battle tactics while you just freeze out your opponent's scoring. I have a sylvaneth battle report which shows how doing this severely skews the game in your favor. Tooth and Nail: Very loseable. That's right. This one can actually be a little tricky. You're still heavily favored, but it's not as automatic as usual. 4 Objectives with controlling them only being worth an additional 1 VP means it's harder to mathematically win before the megas could theoretically die. Haven't played this one with gargs yet. Might need to actually see how they do here. Feral Foray: Similar to Tooth and Nail but much easier to win. Huge territories mean savage spearhead is easy. Kickable objectives to stop opponent burning/enable your burning means you just run up, burn, and move on. You only need to control 2 objectives to max out points (2 for 2, 1 for more than opponent), which means the mancrusher suicide burn (which happens after you score VP- so at the end of your turn) is an easy tactic. Plus then your opponent has to move through/around the mancrusher to try and threaten other objectives. An ideal turn would be you controlling 4 objectives and then burning the most threatened one. You score 3+1 to your opponent's 2 (at most). Next turn you rinse and repeat so you score 3+1 but now they will only have 1 objective and if they somehow drag a second off of you, you're still up 8-4 which is an insane margin when you consider you probably have the battle tactic bonus point or 2. Power in Numbers: Easy win. You sit on your objectives for 4 turns while threatening theirs. If they go for a quick burn you just wait like one turn and then mathematically win. Example: They see you coming with the mancrusher snipes and torch their objectives on turn 2 for a total of 6 points. You know they can definitely take one objective off of you and maybe a second. So when it seems like maybe a mega is in trouble or in a bad engagement. You burn it on turn 3/4 for 4 points. If you can keep one till turn 5 (easy for SoB, like so so easy), then the 8 points there is untouchable. Veins of Ghur: Another super favorable one. 3 kickable objectives that can't be removed and get more valuable the later you sit on them means that you can easily react to a crappy objective placement and then just sit and win.  Ok, I hear what you're saying- "It's so easy to kill a mega gargant, everyone can do it." This is hilariously untrue. Many armies straight up can't realistically kill a mega in a turn. Just flat out no. Thanks for playing nighthaunt, KO, etc, etc. All out Defense on a mega is BRUTAL. Let's run some numbers.  This here is Gotrek in a single activation (I know he gets 2) in which he pops all out attack and I pop all out defense on my kraken eater (who is -1 to hit). On average he does 28.3 Wounds which means I still hold an objective. In my turn I leave combat and still hold an objective. If he doubles me, then sure he gets that point for one turn. Until I move a mancrusher on it on my turn and retake it. Oh, and against the gatebreaker he does less than 20 wounds, even hitting on a 2+ (that 5+ ward is disgusting). These megas are not easy to kill and will absolutely provide a huge (scoring) roadblock for any opponent while straight up locking out certain armies from even competing against them. So, in conclusion, I've talked a lot about mathematically locking opponents out of the game with early objective play so here's what that would look like.  Scenario is, let's say First Blood. I'm playing against a fast army that can one shot a mega with a Big Bad while also having no monsters for me to kill and I can't kill the Big Bad (so has pretty insane output). I'll also purposefully refuse to give myself the chance to double turn because that's just unfair with gargs since 2 uninterrupted scoring turns is game over huge win. I'll go first. I declare ferocious advance and get all 3 objectives with 2 mancrushers and a stomper on the one nearest his power center, gatebreaker and mancrusher on the one next closest, and kraken on his weakest. I score 6 points. Opponent turn one. He is gonna kill a mancrusher but not the warstomper with his Big Bad but can't take any objectives from me. I'm not gonna let his big bad kill 2 mancrushers in a single activation and I'll easily screen the warstomper with a mancrusher. He scores 4 points (kill a monster, battle tactic with a monster because why not) I'll give him the double turn because sure, why not. He kills the warstomper and takes that objective through 15 mancrusher wounds. He scores 4 points (one objective, kill a monster, 2 point battle tactic) My turn. I easily kill a battleline unit of his since savage spearhead is hard to score. Kraken eater kicks objective away from his big bad.  I score 6 points (2 objectives, more than him, battle tactic with monster) His turn 3- I remove his objective and his Big Bad kills the gatebreaker and somehow captures the objective through 15 ablative mancrusher wounds. He scores 4 points (kill a monster, has an objective, battle tactic) My turn 3- I happily do whatever, kick my objective even farther away while FAILING A BATTLE TACTIC and pretending to not be killing any of his other monsters I score 1 point. (objective) For his turn 4 I assume i just have my krakeneater left and maybe a mancrusher. He won't be able to reach them with the Big Bad since I've been kicking objectives all over the place. He scores 3 points. (objective, BT)  My turn 4 I declare savage spearhead with the krakeneater and mancrusher easily getting into his territory while kicking the objective. I score 4 points (one objective and battle tactic with monsters Turn 5 repeats itself except I'll give him the krakeneater kill. He'll score 4 points since I still have that mancrusher left and then my final turn plays out and I score 3 points since I held on to monstrous takeover and that kicked objective for the endgame. Final score is 23-22 me winning despite getting doubled in turn 2 with an opponent who is killier than Gotrek without taking any other monsters and also not having to worry about his general dying. In that absolute worst case scenario, and I mean I can't think of a theory-hammer army where this could realistically occur, I still win. If at any point I snipe a monster of his, I get 2 additional VPs. If at any point he doesn't one shot my defensively-teched megas, I "get" two points by denying him a monster kill and likely an objective. If he misses out a battle tactic at any point, I win. If I miss a battle tactic at any point, I still win. Sons of Behemat are insanely good this edition. I fully expect to see them dominating most tournaments until something changes. Edited July 16, 2021 by vinnyt 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellman Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Wath is  mancrusher mobs? has it special rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 9 hours ago, vinnyt said: Sons of Behemat are insanely good this edition. I fully expect to see them dominating most tournaments until something changes. Completely agree and feels like Gotrek is the only hard counter (sure can't usually solo a gargant in 1 round, but once you consider the rest of the army I think we'll struggle with him). On an unrelated note, has anyone had a go a repositioning Mega-garagnt legs to make them less mono-pose. Hate having 3+ standing the same way but don't know where to start for repositioning.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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