AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Causalis]

Anyone tried the new Centaurion Marshal? The model looks amazing, he's not too expensive and the combat profile is decent. Any luck with him? 

I also love the War Queen and Chieftain models. Are they any good? 

[Latetotheparty]

I haven’t tried them yet. I’m struggling to find a place for the marshal. His ability to rally troops is awesome, but I can’t justify running marauders or iron golems undivided. I’m toying with the idea of ability stacking a big blob of undivided marauders. 4+ save, 6+ Ward, rally on 5+. But is it better than 20  Tzeench warriors?

[JackStreicher]

6 hours ago, Latetotheparty said:

But is it better than 20  Tzeench warriors?

It‘s surely faster than warriors.

[Causalis]

Just wanted to share some minis I'm working on:

 

 

I just hope the blue doens't make the army look too tzeentch-y...

Edited September 29, 2022 by Causalis

[Lord Krungharr]

Wow is that just painted fire or LEDs?   

For my StD, I'm wondering if I'll need a Karkadrak Lord as my army so far is just 4 chariots, 2 sphiranxes, a Soul Grinder and foot lord.   Seems like I might want a Manticore Sorcerer too.  Allied Beasts or Grunnock are available.   The new Legionnaires look good, and some Untamed Beasts for pregame objective capture might also be good?  Strange times approach

[Causalis]

@Lord Krungharr Just painted fire, no LEDs. I used the fluorescent paints from GSW. Airbrush white where I want the hottest fire to be, then airbrush yellow and slowly add orange at the edges. For the spear and sword I followed Artist Opus tutorial on YT.

I've got two SC Boxes now, plus a Sphiranx, the Centaurion Marshal and a box of Ravagers. That's about 1300p. I'll probably just try to get everything painted and wait for the new book before I make any more purchases. 

[Lord Krungharr]

I need to up my paint game like that.  The flourescent colors might come in handy for power weapons/plasma stuff in Horus Heresy too.

The current start collecting boxes are very good; consensus in my game group is that Knights will be much better in the new tome...somehow.  Karkadraks should be at least as tough as they are now, hoping they have mount traits but probably not.  Mount traits for the Manticores though is appropriate if not probable.  Wondering if I need one of those?  Not sure if the new Daemon Princes will be worth a darn; those warscroll leaks were less than meh.

[Agent of Chaos]

Very hard to justify the new daemon prince, although we dont know how/if they are changing the god mark auras so that may be a factor. 

Hopefully knights get a 3+ save and 4 wounds each and warriors get -1 rend, without either going up too much in points (if at all).

Mount Traits for manticores and karkadraks would be nice and seems reasonable giving pretty much all equivalent mounts in other armies get them. 

Would love to see the lord on manticore get reworked to be a melee powerhouse (or at the very least a command ability thats worth something) as we desperately need some hammer units outside Archaon/Varanguard. 

[Causalis]

18 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

 Would love to see the lord on manticore get reworked to be a melee powerhouse (or at the very least a command ability thats worth something) as we desperately need some hammer units outside Archaon/Varanguard. 

Well, from what we've seen we'll get the Theridons as a confirmed hammer. Likely Chosen will be killy too. 

I just want my Chaos Knights to be good dammit. It's crazy how much cav sucks in this game. There are hardly any cav units that are real hammers, most of them are skirmishers! 

And I also hope for Rend -1 on our Warriors. That's a realistic expectation and since GW is doing away with re-rolls I would wager that all our prayers and abilities will now give +1 modifiers to the respective characteristics. 

[Rors]

I doubt it'd happen but I'd really like them to develop the Oath stuff they teased with darkoath.

It would be a cool and unique mechanic with Mad Max "witness me" vibes where units could declare they would do something and get some buffs, but if they failed they get punished. Like a unit declares they will kill a unit, gets +1 to wound and an extra rend. If they haven't killed the unit at the end of the turn they take mortal wounds or turn into spawn.

You could have undivided oaths, and oaths for each god, they could be better or less punishing when within aura range.

I just think it would be a powerful boost that has good strategy depth with some risk and very thematically on theme.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Rors

[Causalis]

A buddy and I are playing a Path to Glory campaign. His Fyreslayers vs my StD. We started at 1000p and each time we play we up the points-limit by 200. Today we played 1400p each and I thought I may share my experience:

List:

Spoiler

StD:

Ravagers

Lord on Kakadrak (MotHF) Khorne
Centaurion Marshal (Eternal Vendetta, Blasphemous Cuirass) Undivided
Sorcerer Lord (MoM, Arcane Tome) Tzeentch

10 Warriors Tzeentch
10 Warriors Undivided
10 Chaos Knights w/ Ens. Weapons, Khorne
1 Chariot Khorne

We played a mission in which I was the ambusher and he the defender. My objective was simply killing his units and he had to try and get into my territory. I got to deploy 12" away and could decide who gets the first turn. I went first and charged with the Knights, Kakadrak and a unit of Warriors. He uses the counter-charge command the Fyreslayers have to activate a unit of Hearthguard. He kills two Knights. My Knights had the Kakadrak warscroll command on them + Oracular Visions + Sorcerer Warscroll spell. They tanked A LOT of hits and dished out the hurt in return. It's not even funny how much better they are with handweapons in comparison to lances. The charge bonus is nice, yes, but if they don't kill their target or get charged then they will hit like wet noodles. Ensorcerelled weapons is the way to go, 100%. Over the course of 4 turns my Knights were killed to 1 remaining guy but managed to kill almost two units of Hearthguards. 

The Kakadrak was ok. His lack of rend really hurts the guy. Look at that big axe and tell me how it can have 0 rend...! Anyway, he charged, killed a few models and promptly died next turn because unlike our heroes, the Fyreslayer heroes hit like a ton of bricks in melee (3" range and flat 3 dmage, lol). 

My units of Warriors were simply existing. They did hardly any damage, because god forbid they get any rend, but were ok at tanking hits. 

The Centaurion Marshal was fire! The command trait is very well suited (probably even when he isn't fighting Order) since it let's him almost guarantee getting +4 attacks on his Bludgeon. 14 attacks in all is nothing to sneeze at and he managed to win a duel against a Grimwrath Berserker (eye of the gods roll gave him a 5+ ward) and then went on to annihilate a troop of Vulkites. 

Another real star were the Darkoath Savagers that I summoned. Holy moly, these guys rock! I dropped them behind his lines turn 1. They failed their charge but turn 2 they got in. They have a lot of attacks and hit decently hard with AoA. They even have 4 attacks at damage 2 and every 6 to hit does a mortal wound IN ADDITION! That's such a good deal for 100p (or for free if you summon them)! They killed a Priest, finished of a Rune Son and killed a unit of those missile shooting Fyreslayers (forgot their name).

Edited October 10, 2022 by Causalis

[Rors]

https://imgur.com/a/cgxSWEA

Let's gooooooooooo!

10 khorne knights putting out 40 attacks on 3s and 2s with rend 2 damage 2 and always strike first is a possible combo... They can also rally on a 4+

 

[Holy_Diver]

Do we want to talk about the gorebeast chariots? A unit of 3 develops a number of mortal wounds out of mind 😂

Let's go, brothers! "For the ruin and the end of the world!"

Edited October 14, 2022 by Holy_Diver

[Rors]

Gorebeast are insane. As far as I can tell, a normal move doesn't have to be in a straight line, you can move forward an inch at the end of combat then wheel off to the side of go backwards.

Imagine hitting a hoard like gouls or zombies and getting to roll 40 dice with every 3+ being d6 mortal wounds.

Last book had an issue with lacking damage output but this new book has several units that can go nuclear.

[Koala]

Yeah, that is obviously a wrong wording. Right now it will (on average) destroy any unit of 2wound and less models. (2/3*3,5 = 2,33 Mortal wounds per model in the unit).

It was probably meant to be per model in the unit the GBCharriot moved over.

[Latetotheparty]

I read that as a d6 per model in the gorebeast unit. The ‘this’ refers to the chariot unit itself.

still a potential 3d6 damage. 
 

and don’t forget they move out of combat with this ability! 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Latetotheparty

[Grimrock]

7 hours ago, Rors said:

https://imgur.com/a/cgxSWEA

Let's gooooooooooo!

10 khorne knights putting out 40 attacks on 3s and 2s with rend 2 damage 2 and always strike first is a possible combo... They can also rally on a 4+

 

Pfft, forget rallying on a 4+. Until they update the Khorne book all the buff heroes still just key off the Khorne keyword. Try taking them in legion of the first prince for run and charge, a bloodsecrator for +3 to runs and charges and reroll wounds, a bloodsecrator giving them +1 attacks, and if you can somehow manage wrathmongers that far up the board you'll get another extra attack. Average charge range of about 26", 60 attacks at 3+/2+/-2/2 damage with reroll wounds, and attack first if triggering off a chaos lord on mount. It won't work once they fix everything in Khorne to work off 'Blades of Khorne', but until then mark of Khorne units are going to absolutely slap with the buffing allies. 

Honestly, I'm soooo happy with the way this book is looking. All the major complaints of the last book seem to have been addressed and things just feel right you know? Chaos warriors/knights look like real terrors. Marks are elegantly implemented in a way that makes them simple, impactful, and easy to mix and match while still encouraging you to keep the core of your army in one mark. Sub factions are mostly excellent and help encourage a variety of different playstyles without restricting list building excessively. Excessive reliance on buffs is mostly gone with base stats being excellent across the board, but there are still some good ones in there with the chaos sorcerer in particular still shining. Eye of the Gods is thematic and cool, gets supported in multiple places with extra rolls and the Undivided mark, and will actually come up in every game. There are so many different possibilities and builds with just the stuff we've seen so far and that doesn't even include the cultists.

In the current book I looked at so many things and just shook my head, everything seemed to be intentionally built to discourage synergy or fun lists while railroading you into a specific way to play. This is like the complete opposite. Everything is cool and exciting and interacts in new ways. Every new section opens up new possibilities rather than shutting them out. Seriously this is pretty much everything I could ever want out of this book.  

Edited October 14, 2022 by Grimrock

[Grimrock]

Sorry for the double post, but just to get back to the Daemon Prince. His points went down and he's decently priced for his stats. As far as I can tell there's nothing stopping him from taking the standard artefacts, the wording only prevents mortals from taking the daemon prince specific ones, so he can take the Conquerors Crown which is bonkers good. The command traits aren't bad and being able to take multiple traits in despoilers makes a few interesting combos. The best one I can think of now is a 14 wound prince with monstrous actions by giving it 'Bolstered by Chaos'. Give him mark of Khorne to heal for every model he kills and keep a buddy prince nearby with Radiance of Dark Glory to heal him for 3 wounds in your hero phases. Pretty much unkillable at that point and does halfway decent damage with the axe. One other option would be a wizard prince in cabalist that has flaming weapon. If you give him 'Not to be denied' and perform the 'Draw on Power' chain correctly you can also trigger a second action on the prince at the end. 

I think he could be pretty viable honestly. Not super OP, but decent and you could definitely build an army around it. I'm interested to see if any of the other monsters are any good. If there are a few standouts then I think we could definitely see Despoilers making the rounds. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Grimrock

[novakai]

hmm interestingly, to make one unit of Ogroid Theradon battleline you need one Myrmidon in your army (minmum of three to get three battleline, so about 960pts). i guess the benefits is that if your general doesn't have to be a Myrmidon if you want to run some  Theradons as battleline, but a full Ogroid army baseline is more costly. looks like they are design to be more like Auxiliary units in Slaves

sadly there no damned legion that specifically buffs them but given them Marks sound exciting.

[Rors]

9 hours ago, Koala said:

Yeah, that is obviously a wrong wording. Right now it will (on average) destroy any unit of 2wound and less models. (2/3*3,5 = 2,33 Mortal wounds per model in the unit).

It was probably meant to be per model in the unit the GBCharriot moved over.

Yeah "this" probably was intended as the gorebeast but I'm amazed that hot through drafting because it's an immediate FAQ and if the intention is the gorebeast it's broken English and terrible sentence structure.

Yeah, knights as allies will do some absolutely crazy stuff. @Grimrock@Grimrock

[Jaskier]

Daemon Princes of Nurgle are very strong, being able to guarantee turn off ward rolls can be match-winning if going into Nurgle, Phoenix Guard, etc. Very good candidate for a general, and additionally its Trophy Racks granting battleshock immunity will likely prove very relevant with so many abilities introduced recently that switch off Inspiring Presence. 

[Rors]

Cabalists are going to pull some crazy shenanigans too. I think a Lord of Change will be a good ally for them to get the +1 to cast bubble.

Soul boating combat heros out of no where, especially if they also have daemonic speed. Give a cheap hero a roll on eye of the gods with 3d6 and reroll 1 dice each hero phase is decent odds for a demon prince.

Or reliability to chuck winds of chaos through a spell portal.

I'm not sure what the best tech is but I think it'll be a great subfaction when someone works it out.

 

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Rors said:

Yeah, knights as allies will do some absolutely crazy stuff. @Grimrock@Grimrock

I'm sure you mean that knights with allies will do some crazy stuff, but that reminds me of something interesting I noticed. S2D units will no longer have marks when taken in other armies. Not a big mechanical deal in general as most of the mono-god stuff is being changed over to work off the book keyword (ex. Disciples of Tzeentch instead of just Tzeentch) but it still feels weird.

Also thinking of some more options for princes, I noticed that Despoilers buffs Monsters with no caveat, so Archaon and Be'lakor both get the buff. 27 wounds on Archaon with a 5+ ward means he has effectively 41 wounds. Not only that, but they can both be healed by 'Radiance of Dark Glory' which is just silly. I was thinking Archaon in despoilers backed up by a couple support princes could be pretty fun but I'm waiting on the cultist and marauder warscrolls before I dive too deep into list building. Those cheap battleline options are going to be a pretty big deal when everything else in the book is so elite. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Grimrock

[Rors]

33 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I'm sure you mean that knights with allies will do some crazy stuff

 

Both. In blades they loose the +1 attack on the charge but get it I bunch of other ways along with the same buffs those allies can give them in slaves.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Rors

[Grimrock]

6 minutes ago, Rors said:

Both. In blades they loose the +1 attack on the charge but get it I bunch of other ways, and they can use blood tithe for some crazy shenanigans.

Can't unfortunately, blood tithe has gone to Blades of Khorne only. Also since they no longer get to pick marks when they're taken in other armies they don't get to benefit from any of the Khorne specific buffs in the BoK army (or any other armies for that matter). You could bring a unit over and include a chaos sorcerer as well for buffs, but I don't think that'll really be worth the cost. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Grimrock