AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Maddpainting]

5 attacks -3 rend is better than 3 attack -1 with D6 MWs vs heroes on a 6.

[KoalaSnok]

7 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

5 attacks -3 rend is better than 3 attack -1 with D6 MWs vs heroes on a 6.

You dont have to put SoJ on an actual sword, it would also be used on the axe profile.

So the comparison is 5a/rend-3 vs 5a/rend- with D6 MWs vs heroes on a 6.

I will be going with the Dimensional Blade on my Crackerjack. And Miasmatic blade on my Sorcerer. (Host of Everchosen)

Edited January 29, 2020 by KoalaSnok

[velocitydog]

I need a quick clarification.  Demon Princes have a 3+ save and Sacrilegious Might states DP's negate wounds or mortal wounds allocated to them on a 5+.  Does the Despoiler DP get to use its 3+ save against normal wounds and Sacrilegious Might means that the save can't get any worse than 5+ or do you replace your 3+ save with a 5+ save.  The latter seems like a huge drawback and I'm assuming is incorrect but I wanted to check.

Thanks!

[Bloodmoon]

Its a save after save. So any damage you take after you make your standard saving throw you ignore on a 5+.

[velocitydog]

Thanks Bloodmoon! So a 3+ save followed by the 5+ save...WOW.  The buffs some of the units get are amazing.  Knights with re-roll 1's to hit, +1 wound, +1 to-hit and their effect on enemy unit Bravery are a sight to behold.  

Couple other clarifications.  Heroes are affected by the Aura they project, correct?  I play a Khorne army so, for example, my Demon Prince gets the re-roll 1's to hit and +1 wound benefit in addition to other units within his 18" bubble. 

Also, Demon Princes and bearers of the Helm of Many Eyes, assuming they charged, get to attack before you get to pick your first unit to attack in a combat, right?  Someone told me that but I want to be absolutely sure it's correct.  If so that means a list with 2 DP's and a Lord with the Helm would get to attack with four units before the opponent (assuming anything was left) gets to pick a unit to fight.

Thanks again for the help.

[Bloodmoon]

yes to all of your questions. 

[velocitydog]

Awesome, many thanks!

[begleysm]

47 minutes ago, velocitydog said:

If so that means a list with 2 DP's and a Lord with the Helm [of Many Eyes[ would get to attack with four units before the opponent (assuming anything was left) gets to pick a unit to fight.

Why is it 4 attacking units and not 3?

[velocitydog]

I think it works as follows.  I charge a unit with two demon princes and Lord against a unit that's already engaged with a unit of my knights. The DP's (because they're DP's) and Lord (Helm) go first and then I would get to select my first "normal" unit ( nights) of the combat.  Without DP's and Lord charging I'd just get to go with the knights. 

[begleysm]

Just now, velocitydog said:

I think it works as follows.  I charge a unit with two demon princes and Lord against a unit that's already engaged with a unit of my knights. The DP's (because they're DP's) and Lord (Helm) go first and then I would get to select my first "normal" unit ( nights) of the combat.  Without DP's and Lord charging I'd just get to go with the knights. 

Gotcha, I didn't (and still didn't) see anything about knights in your question.

[velocitydog]

Yeah, I wasn't clear.  I indicated four attacks assuming there was another random unit engaged in combat but should have specified.

[Andelion]

This debate on loadouts comes at the right time for me as I'm assembling a Daemon prince for my despoilers. Running at least one. Is the axe or the sword better? Or should the sword of judgement be considered? I could magnetise but the joint is a bit of a pain.

[Maddpainting]

IMO Sword of Judgement is best for units with more than 6 attacks or units that gets to attack multiple times that are strong enough to go after heroes.  A good example is the Verminlord Corrupter, it has 10 attacks and hits of a 6 already does 1 MW, it also re-rolls all hits. Being 3+ to hit , thats 6-7 hits 1 roll of a 6 on average, then 3-4 re-rolls. You have a high chance to get 2 6's for 2D6 MW's on top of the 2 other MW's it does. 

Or the Exalted Deathbring (I think thats what it is called) If it is near your general or is your general it is 8 attacks, with the bloodsecrator making it 9 attacks, and for Blood tithe points gets to fight in the hero phases. 

So when i see a model with 3-5 attacks, i don't think it is worth it, you might get 1 out of a combat if your lucky. I don't like to relay on luck.
 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Bloodmoon]

1 hour ago, Andelion said:

Is the axe or the sword better?

Sword is better. 

[Gistradagis]

2 hours ago, Bloodmoon said:

Sword is better. 

How so? I also had this doubt, and tried using a couple damage calculators. I always got the same result: the axe's output is slightly better/more reliable.

[Bloodmoon]

Cause i'm an idiot and forgot which profile we were talking about. Lmao. You're right, the axe is better. 

[Jaskier]

3 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

IMO Sword of Judgement is best for units with more than 6 attacks or units that gets to attack multiple times that are strong enough to go after heroes.  A good example is the Verminlord Corrupter, it has 10 attacks and hits of a 6 already does 1 MW, it also re-rolls all hits. Being 3+ to hit , thats 6-7 hits 1 roll of a 6 on average, then 3-4 re-rolls. You have a high chance to get 2 6's for 2D6 MW's on top of the 2 other MW's it does. 

Or the Exalted Deathbring (I think thats what it is called) If it is near your general or is your general it is 8 attacks, with the bloodsecrator making it 9 attacks, and for Blood tithe points gets to fight in the hero phases. 

So when i see a model with 3-5 attacks, i don't think it is worth it, you might get 1 out of a combat if your lucky. I don't like to relay on luck.
 

The Sword of Judgement is pretty good on the Daemon Prince actually; the Daemon Prince has an in-built +1 to-hit on the charge, meaning the SoJ triggers for every 5+ to-hit rather than 6+. Pair with the sword for two extra mortals on 6s to-hit and you've got a nasty assassin that always strikes first. Give him re-rolls and he definitely competes with some other strong picks with the SoJ (i.e. a Contorted Epitome) and has the inherent value of striking out of sequence while being pretty darned resilient. Definitely not the best carrier around but I know of at least one Slaves list at Cancon that used him to consistent, fantastic effect. Another point to note is that unlike most of the 'good' SoJ carriers you see, the Daemon Prince flies - it's much harder to screen him out. There's been a lot of games where my SoJ-wielding Epitome hasn't quite been able to get into the heroes I want it to kill when I needed it to, and having no guarantee of striking first (i.e. if I fail a Locus and need to pick another more important unit to fight with first) is a big deal.

As for sword versus axe on him, from what I gather the sword is only better if you're running (perhaps fittingly) the SoJ.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Jaskier

[Bloodmoon]

Yeah, SoJ on a Sword prince is pretty scary if you get full rerolls to hit on him. However there arent really many ways to fit him into synergy as he doesnt have the MORTAL keyword, so getting reroll hit rolls on him could be pretty hard. Its pretty much Call to Glory and thats it. 

[Maddpainting]

6 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

The Sword of Judgement is pretty good on the Daemon Prince for one very specific reason; the Daemon Prince has an in-built +1 to-hit on the charge, meaning the SoJ triggers for every 5+ to-hit rather than 6+. Pair with the sword for two extra mortals on 6s to-hit and you've got a deadly character assassin that always strikes first. Give him re-rolls and he definitely competes with some other strong picks with the SoJ (i.e. a Contorted Epitome) and has the inherent value of striking out of sequence while being pretty darned resilient. Definitely not the best carrier around but I know of at least one Slaves list at Cancon that used him to consistent, fantastic effect. Having actually used a SoJ-wielding Epitome in Slaanesh allegiance at Cancon, despite getting full re-rolls to-hit from a Fane and access to a double pile-in, I honestly wish I'd taken the Prince instead 😅 I've never been so disappointed at rolling that many 5s!

As for sword versus axe on him, from what I gather the sword is only better if you're running (perhaps fittingly) the SoJ.

Yeah i forgot he had a +1 to hit, that is a very good point, its one of the few units that gets +1 to hit normally.

[Jaskier]

1 minute ago, Bloodmoon said:

Yeah, SoJ on a Sword prince is pretty scary if you get full rerolls to hit on him. However there arent really many ways to fit him into synergy as he doesnt have the MORTAL keyword, so getting reroll hit rolls on him could be pretty hard. Its pretty much Call to Glory and thats it. 

Not useful for Slaves specifically but as a Slaanesh player I'd definitely look at giving him the Fane buff. Tossing up between him and the Epitome for a SoJ carrier is basically a question of reliability (Prince) versus utility (Epitome). It's so good to see Princes (and Belakor especially) being so strong now regardless of how you run them though. I currently have the genesis of a Slaves army and am looking at running Warrior-heavy Despoilers for something fun and different. It can't be understated how good this book is!

[Bloodmoon]

same dude, its so nice to finally have what should be a big part of the army actually powerful and useful instead of the pile of garbo it was. 

[Sneedlewoods]

8 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

IMO Sword of Judgement is best for units with more than 6 attacks or units that gets to attack multiple times that are strong enough to go after heroes.  A good example is the Verminlord Corrupter, it has 10 attacks and hits of a 6 already does 1 MW, it also re-rolls all hits. Being 3+ to hit , thats 6-7 hits 1 roll of a 6 on average, then 3-4 re-rolls. You have a high chance to get 2 6's for 2D6 MW's on top of the 2 other MW's it does. 

Or the Exalted Deathbring (I think thats what it is called) If it is near your general or is your general it is 8 attacks, with the bloodsecrator making it 9 attacks, and for Blood tithe points gets to fight in the hero phases. 

So when i see a model with 3-5 attacks, i don't think it is worth it, you might get 1 out of a combat if your lucky. I don't like to relay on luck.
 

Afaik allied units wont be able to carry ans Artefacts. Am i right? 

[Niitrogen]

Give an exalted deathbringer or khorne DP with SoJ the +1 to hit from Slsughterpriest Killing Frenzy and +1 attack from Bloodsecretor and you have a nice little blender 

[CeleFAZE]

9 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Not useful for Slaves specifically but as a Slaanesh player I'd definitely look at giving him the Fane buff. Tossing up between him and the Epitome for a SoJ carrier is basically a question of reliability (Prince) versus utility (Epitome). It's so good to see Princes (and Belakor especially) being so strong now regardless of how you run them though. I currently have the genesis of a Slaves army and am looking at running Warrior-heavy Despoilers for something fun and different. It can't be understated how good this book is!

My experiences with the epitome usually have been that if you have it close enough to the front that it can attack with its claws you're generally going to lose it on the return swing due to its 5+ save. I tend to keep mine within range of its 6" super-locus but decidedly out of actual combat when I can.

On that note are people finding the epitome a useful ally choice for S2D? With 2 rerollable dispels, an AoE strike-last ability and a unique spell that grants rerolls as a debuff on the enemy that isn't faction locked, it would seem like you could do a lot worse for 200 points.

[Maddpainting]

6 hours ago, Sneedlewoods said:

Afaik allied units wont be able to carry ans Artefacts. Am i right? 

I was just giving example to why you want the SoJ and saying on a low attack model with no plus to hits, or double attack it isn't worth it and there are much better artefacts to consider.