Warhammer - The Old World

[Ogregut]

13 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

In this case, they are offering their usual 15% discount on the TOW books, which is as good or even better than a lot of other 3rd party sellers are/were.

They sold the army boxes at full price, put them on the site during the week after the release weekend. 

 

[Baron Klatz]

18 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Lol, if we are talking about immersion: In TOW my Chaos lord eats goblin warbosses / big bosses as breakfeast, but in AoS he hides from a single Loonboss.

Eh, in AoS the Loonbosses are empowered by their physical moon god and copious magic shrooms so are far deadlier than the usual fantasy faire you get with. Even in the recent stories when they slay enemy warriors they cause the spilt blood to immediately sprout more magic mushrooms.

So that fits to me. It’s same as Wfb Black Orcs now becoming common cannon fodder in AoS as ‘Ardboyz. The power scaling’s gone up on all sides so even chaos warlords aren’t the biggest talk in town when there’s multiple demigods around the corner.

 

As for the other companies and prices, that’s completely each their own. Nothing beats AoS’ aesthetics for me so that’s where my focus & wallet stays. 🫡 

[Tonhel]

7 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I love lastwords, they are fellow countrymen, but while I agree they really have cool designs, resins cannot be compared to plastic. The day those companies provide plastic kits, the game would spice it up.

I use since december 2023 the Elegoo ABS 2 resin and in my experience it as durable as plastic from GW and Victrix. The newest resins from various companies are really good. Imo, 3d printing is the future for our hobby.

[Tonhel]

8 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Eh, in AoS the Loonbosses are empowered by their physical moon god and copious magic shrooms so are far deadlier than the usual fantasy faire you get with. Even in the recent stories when they slay enemy warriors they cause the spilt blood to immediately sprout more magic mushrooms.

So that fits to me. It’s same as Wfb Black Orcs now becoming common cannon fodder in AoS as ‘Ardboyz. The power scaling’s gone up on all sides so even chaos warlords aren’t the biggest talk in town when there’s multiple demigods around the corner.

 

As for the other companies and prices, that’s completely each their own. Nothing beats AoS’ aesthetics for me so that’s where my focus & wallet stays. 🫡 

If everything is empowered, than in the end nothing is special - no heroism or sacrifice. It just becomes bland. The nature of the warscrolls for foot heroes means that each warscroll stats look the same. It does not matter if it's a loonboss, chaos lord, Marshall or Vampire Lord... It's all the same 3+/3+ and all more or less the same average damage output.

I don't see the logic in that each foot hero is the same as a Chaos Lord or Vampire Lord. Why try to gain the favou of Khorne..try to ascend to a daemon Prince or go for eternal life when a simple Goblin hero can kick your ****.

[Baron Klatz]

8 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Why try to gain the favou of Khorne..try to ascend to a daemon Prince or go for eternal life when a simple Goblin hero can kick your ****.

Because if you don’t then you get to watch your entire village burned down by that single Loonboss able to kill the entire garrison with ease.(which was actually a case during the Age of Chaos so many turned to the Dark Gods for survival, it was mad apocalypse times of needing any power for protection)
 

So you use the power of the gods or magics of the Realms to just even the playing field. 😄

But in the end to each their own, I get why you want to customize a blender but I think the “arcadey” streamline style of AoS gets it’s point across too for people that just want to throw down cool models quick.

 

It’s actually a bit funny to me because that’s your go-to example of why you hate AoS heroes but I remember back in 2015 before points the Gobbo boss vs Chaos champion was used as praise for how balanced the game was as people tested ten fights between the bosses & a unit each and it was a 50/50 win split on each so no obvious power creep at the time by having the better model. 

Edited February 6 by Baron Klatz

[Ejecutor]

39 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

I use since december 2023 the Elegoo ABS 2 resin and in my experience it as durable as plastic from GW and Victrix. The newest resins from various companies are really good. Imo, 3d printing is the future for our hobby.

Could be as durable as plastic in some aspects. I am not fully sure about the weather. In Spain some users mentioned their resin miniatures just melted over the summer. Also, IMO resin is harder to work with. That's where plastic shines, from my pov.

[Hollow]

3 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

We cannot compare a game with 40 years vs one with 10.

It is disingenuous to say that WFB is 40 years old. It's been completely unsupported for the last decade! Also, the Games Workshop of the 80's, 90's and 00's was completely different to the one of the last 10 years. The GW of the last 10 years has so many more staff, designers and resources.

It's a deliberate design decision that GW has made regarding what to focus on in AoS. (Due to mark-ups amongst other things) I don't even think that AoS should have as many infantry options as ToW, I just feel many of the AoS factions feel a little sparse when they only have a single 10-man infantry unit and a single 5-man (special) infantry unit. 

Hopefully, we will see infantry choices bulked out through upcoming Warcry Releases. (Like the recently announced Pyre and Blood) and new infantry/cavalry options in 4th. 

Edited February 6 by Hollow

[Ejecutor]

7 minutes ago, Hollow said:

It is disingenuous to say that WFB is 40 years old. It's been completely unsupported for the last decade! Also, the Games Workshop of the 80's, 90's and 00's was completely different to the one of the last 10 years. The GW of the last 10 years has so many more staff, designers and resources.

It's a deliberate design decision that GW has made regarding what to focus on in AoS factions. (Due to mark-ups amongst other things) I don't even think that AoS should have as many infantry options as ToW, I just feel many of the AoS factions feel a little sparse when they only have a single 10-man infantry unit and a single 5-man (special) infantry unit. 

Hopefully, we will see infantry choices bulked out through upcoming Warcry Releases. (Like the recently announced Pyre and Blood) and new infantry/cavalry options in 4th. 

It is true. The game has been unsupported, but the IP has been in development still. We got new content and units from stuff like TTW. That could lead to new units for TOW in the future and most of the work would be done already.

From my POV the past decade for AoS has not been that different with the early years of WHFB. The setting is still being settled down. The range for some factions is going to change drastically. It is true that we got more content in comparison, but our starting point is also wider. So there's more work to do to get a decent starting point, which IMO has not been reached yet.

I personally prefer a proper unit rather than a warband, or something that looks like a proper unit, no matter which game is used to get it released. The best examples of this usually come from Warcry. Some of the best examples for me would be Hunters of Huanchi but as two different units. Leaving the Pterodatciles as a separate unit, or the Wildercorps Hunters, where I would put the doggos as well as a separate unit. Something like the recent Kroots Dogs.

[Tonhel]

7 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Because if you don’t then you get to watch your entire village burned down by that single Loonboss able to kill the entire garrison with ease.(which was actually a case during the Age of Chaos so many turned to the Dark Gods for survival, it was mad apocalypse times of needing any power for protection)
 

So you use the power of the gods or magics of the Realms to just even the playing field. 😄

But in the end to each their own, I get why you want to customize a blender but I think the “arcadey” streamline style of AoS gets it’s point across too for people that just want to throw down cool models quick.

 

It’s actually a bit funny to me because that’s your go-to example of why you hate AoS heroes but I remember back in 2015 before points the Gobbo boss vs Chaos champion was used as praise for how balanced the game was as people tested ten fights between the bosses & a unit each and it was a 50/50 win split on each so no obvious power creep at the time by having the better model. 

I don't hate AoS heroes. I played/play AoS since AoS 1 and loved the beginning  of the 3rd edition. The love decreased significantly with all those GHB's and battle tactics. I just find TOW the better game for playing and the pure hobby time (painting, searching for the right mini, making armylists/background etc). It gives the hobbyist so more freedom in creating your own story / army.

With AoS it bugs me immensly that all foot characters are so bland and interchangeable. As a Chaos and Empire player during Warhammer and CoS / StD player with AoS. It's ridiculous that a Chaos Lord is such a wimp. Double the point cost, make it much more expensive, but make a Chaos Lord a terrifying presence on the battlefield.

With TOW my opponent will have think how to get rid of my Chaos Lord. How to kill him and etc... In AoS, nobody is thinking about him, nobody cares. It's just a random foot hero with no impact whatsoever on the game. It's an immersion killer. The fact you think that a Loonboss, a mere goblin, that it's ok that he is of the same power level or even stronger than Chaos Lords or Vampire lord is imo absurd and just sucks all the immersion out of the game.

Your characters doesn't matter in AoS, only the real big ones, the semi gods. AoS isn't a battle game. It's a game of "Aha, I start.. I chose battle tactic "seize the centre". Oh look, I won the priority roll again, so it's my turn again. I will now chose "Run them down". and etc.. .

I am hoping for a good rules update for 4th edition, otherwise I am done with AoS. 

Edited February 7 by Tonhel

[JackStreicher]

16 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Your characters doesn't matter in AoS, only the real big ones, the semi gods. AoS isn't a battle game. It's a game of "Aha, I start.. I chose battle tactic "seize the centre". Oh look, I won the priority roll again, so it's my turn again. I will now chose "Run them down". and etc.. .

That sums up pretty much the biggest issues I have with AoS.

- The immersion is gone in favor of random tasks one has to complete to win

- Heroes are dull and everything is the same.

[Beliman]

26 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

That sums up pretty much the biggest issues I have with AoS.

- The immersion is gone in favor of random tasks one has to complete to win

- Heroes are dull and everything is the same.

I'm in the same spot. I want to add a few points too:

• Artifacts and drops linked to battalions. Boring and arbitrary af.
• #customizationnotfound

If there is some weird background for a generic goblin hero (or Duardin, or human, or beastmen, or SCE, or...) to have the same Hit and Wound profiles as a Chaos Lord, then rewrite the whole story.

[Jamopower]

9 hours ago, Tonhel said:

I use since december 2023 the Elegoo ABS 2 resin and in my experience it as durable as plastic from GW and Victrix. The newest resins from various companies are really good. Imo, 3d printing is the future for our hobby.

For many, the building aspect of the plastic kits is the most important part of the hobby. I don't believe that can be ever matched by resin (or metal). It's like comparing Legos to Matchbox cars, while both are great, they are different experiences.

[Tonhel]

29 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

For many, the building aspect of the plastic kits is the most important part of the hobby. I don't believe that can be ever matched by resin (or metal). It's like comparing Legos to Matchbox cars, while both are great, they are different experiences.

It depends. I have stls that are almost 1 piece mini, but on the other hand I have mini's from Last Sword and Lost Kingdom that are true multipart. I.e the chaos mini's from LK are seperate parts for heads, arms, body. + Seperate shield designs. So you can still build them. Although I have to admit glueing everything together with superglue is a pain compared with plastic glue. What I now like to do is to assemble the parts digitally in Nomad Sculpt or do the conversions digitally. Also time consuming, but fun.

But you are correct that the building part is an important part of the hobby.

 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I'm in the same spot. I want to add a few points too:

• Artifacts and drops linked to battalions. Boring and arbitrary af.
• #customizationnotfound

If there is some weird background for a generic goblin hero (or Duardin, or human, or beastmen, or SCE, or...) to have the same Hit and Wound profiles as a Chaos Lord, then rewrite the whole story.

* The only customisation we received is the Anvil of Apotheosis. That one is neither matched play legal nor well made as it is completely out of whack

[JerekKruger]

Add me to the pile of people who find characters mostly disappointing in AoS. I used to spend hours coming up with a back story for my heroes in WHFB, picking out magic items, thinking about which units were their personal retinues etc.

I just don't find I can do the same in AoS. If I take a Chaos Lord he is the exact same as every other Chaos Lord barring an artefact choice (which is often a no brainer between a good option and some bad ones), he then gets shot off the table, or hits like a wet noodle, and I just don't feel it. I can invest in my characters in AoS.

Don't get me wrong, I do like AoS as a game, it's just a very different play experience to WHFB. AoS feels more like a pure game, whereas WHFB has more of the roleplay influences that were very obvious in early GW games.

[Marcvs]

10 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

just want to throw down cool models quick

So this is a sore spot for me because it's one of the thing that drove me away from AoS recently: it's not quick at all. It has by far the longest playtime for a "standard" game of all the systems I play. If I am not playing competitively and/or with chess clocks, it easily goes into the 4 hours for a single game. And this is compounded by a sizeable share of that time being downtime and checkpoints. I have come to dread the "start of the hero phase" moment, and in the game of TOW I have played, it felt very refreshing to be moving stuff around almost immediately (and let's not get into the furious pace of Conquest)

[KingKull]

10 hours ago, Hollow said:

It is disingenuous to say that WFB is 40 years old. It's been completely unsupported for the last decade! Also, the Games Workshop of the 80's, 90's and 00's was completely different to the one of the last 10 years. The GW of the last 10 years has so many more staff, designers and resources.

It's a deliberate design decision that GW has made regarding what to focus on in AoS. (Due to mark-ups amongst other things) I don't even think that AoS should have as many infantry options as ToW, I just feel many of the AoS factions feel a little sparse when they only have a single 10-man infantry unit and a single 5-man (special) infantry unit. 

Hopefully, we will see infantry choices bulked out through upcoming Warcry Releases. (Like the recently announced Pyre and Blood) and new infantry/cavalry options in 4th. 

To add to this, AoS could have had fewer armies with larger model ranges. I'm not talking about whether this works for the business side of things (I don't know); but I'm damn sure I would've preferred that.

[Flippy]

11 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

But in the end to each their own, I get why you want to customize a blender but I think the “arcadey” streamline style of AoS gets it’s point across too for people that just want to throw down cool models quick.

It might have been what GW intended, but AoS is not a quick game, not even close. Lack of customisation can help in preparing the army list on the run (is that really important for anyone?), but the game itself is bogged down by different factors. So, you have a game that's supposed to be relatively quick & accessible and sacrifices certain aspects for this purpose, but ultimately fails to reach the goal. 

[Ogregut]

What armies are people working on? 

Anyone else dug out some old projects or found dusty boxes from yesteryear? 

Or even printed a new army. 

Lets see what's cooking on people's hobby tables! 

[JerekKruger]

19 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

What armies are people working on? 

Warriors of Chaos, using almost entirely new AoS sculpts (technically a handful are old WHFB I guess).

My old 6th edition stuff has long ago disappeared sadly. Got back into the hobby in 2021.

[Ogregut]

4 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Warriors of Chaos, using almost entirely new AoS sculpts (technically a handful are old WHFB I guess).

My old 6th edition stuff has long ago disappeared sadly. Got back into the hobby in 2021.

I sold off loads of my old stuff ages ago, regret it now! 

Tho I have been collecting 4th edition armies for dark elves, wood elves, o+g and chaos for a few years. 

I'm loving there is so much choice at the moment! 

[Beliman]

49 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

What armies are people working on? 

Dwarfs! Completely new project (I never had any WFB miniatures).

Edited February 7 by Beliman

[Ogregut]

26 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Dwarfs! Completely new project (I never had any WFB miniatures).

Waiting for the rerelease, 3d prints or 2nd hand market? 

[Beliman]

3 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Waiting for the rerelease, 3d prints or 2nd hand market? 

Building and painting 2nd market stuff, but I will buy the Dwarf box (if any) and probably everything dwarf-y in the same release that I don't have.

[JerekKruger]

42 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Dwarfs! Completely new project (I never had any WFB miniatures).

I've been very tempted to pick up some of the existing AoS dwarf stuff that is suitable for WHFB. I had a Dwarf army in 6th edition, and always liked their aesthetic.