The Future...

[Grunaldi]

I heard some ppl say  that CoS is only a 1st step ...
but 1st step to what ?

What do you think 2020 have in store for us  ?

[Turin Turambar]

I think CoS will be for Order what Legions of Nagash is for death.

 

that is a soup tome, where concepts are taken and expanded upon in separate tomes, but it will likely be a slow process.

then again Nighthaunt were about 4 or 5 months after legions of Nagash?  and bone reapers are almost 2 years (about 16/17 months or so i think)

 

So maybe we'll see the first expansion at the beginning of 2020 (February/March?) but probably sometime in 2020 and then the next in 2021.

 

but yeah i think its going to be all good, for the most part...

[Clan's Cynic]

I think the new Warriors of Chaos make me a bit more optimistic that we might see a straight update of the Free Guild/Empire kits, especially if they're a success. The reaction to them being WHFB+1 rather than wholly unique to AoS trying to be totally different and 'epic' has been quite telling in my opinion, especially compared to the Ossiarchs. I did think that CoS would just be one last "Hurrah" before being left to languish but new kits for Sexually Transmitted Diseases does give me hope - especially when I believed they'd share the same fate.

Now, 2020? Okay, I'm being a bit too optimistic here. Maybe in a couple of years at least.

On the other hand, the big, prominent, Community banner that came with AoS2 does have what appear to be Freeguild (or at least mortal humans) in a design we've not seen before, so if those designs were at least in the planning stages in 2018 they can't be that far off.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Clan's Cynic

[Overread]

Honestly I think if GW wanted to squat the cities range they would have done so now. The move to 2.0 is pretty much the last big bastion of GW being able to squat whole armies and at least have the community disilke it but not hate them for it totally. It's cleaning the slate of the game for a final time after the utter mess that was AoS at launch (in terms of supporting actual whole armies and such).

Of course High Elf players are mostly getting the same nasty treatment that Tombkings and Bretonnia had; however at the very least I've heard from a good few who are repainting their models and using them as counts-as for other parts of the Cities Alliance. So there is at least some hope to recycle models. There's also some who think that the wide range of models removed from the HE might mean that some concepts make a return with the "new light aelf" army that GW has had in the lore teasing us for quite a while now. 

 

I think that moving forward Cities will still lose models, but on the one or two approach and always alongside model releases. Furthermore many of the "losses" will be replacements; seeing new concepts and designs come through. Indeed a big update wave could make some quite striking changes to the designs of some of the Cities models.

 

I can also get behind the idea that Cities could act a bit like Legions of Nagash, but my gut feeling is that Order is already pretty fully and GW has a lot on their plate before fleshing out the Cities armies into fully fledged factions. However we might see nice themed releases through games like Underworlds - where GW can create themed and niche warbands without having to make a whole army. Darkoath and Kurnothi warbands are prime examples of warband concepts that are not full armies; but which attach into major armies. Letting GW explore and tease themes. 

[madmac]

I don't think Darkoath really works as a negative example anymore.  Darkoath gave us Warcry culminating in a huge STD update, the only thing lost along the way was apparently just the word Darkoath as a name/keyword, the concept of the Warcry bands is exactly the same. And really, the name being dropped was suggested from the beginning of the year when the Godsworn Hunt were generic STD and not Dark Oath.

LoN OTOH, looks like a better roadmap for Cities. Even Nighthaunt and Bonereapers, which were brand new model ranges, poached as many existing models as they could that still fit the theme of the army.  The relatively tiny slice of LoN that hasn't already been absorbed into another army is just basically Vampires with basic skeletons/zombies and Necromancers. One more eventual death army and all of LoN will have been expanded out into independent forces.

All of the teased Order armies we have at this time have some tie-in to cities. Phoenix Temple for Light Aelves, the various (still Malerion worshiping, mind) Dark Aelf subfactions for Shadow Aelves, Wanderers for Kurnothi, and Dispossessed for whatever secret projects Grugni is up to.

The only indispensable piece of Cities of Sigmar is the Humans/Freeguild, and that's the only subfaction in the book that I can see getting meaningfully expanded on under the Cities label.

[Filius]

It looks a litte bit like maybe the future is not too far away …

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/05/the-rumour-engine-november-5th-2019/

"We’ve been working with the Ironweld Engineers to fix the Rumour Engine, but its mysteries elude even their prodigious skills"

[Televiper11]

I imagine we will get a Witch Hunter and a Warrior Priest eventually but that's about it.  I think CoS will have a strong run but I don't expect it to be around ten years from now.

[NinthMusketeer]

I am betting they will add rules for additional free cities in future supplements and/or white dwarf.

[NatBrannigan]

Voted for a bright future because i'm hoping GW pick up on the popularity and run with it, i'm not sure they will though

The models at the moment aren't copy writable enough I don't think, you can still go to other miniature companies and use their stuff instead. Not many Steampunk flying ships or half tree half elf models about.

I love this Battletome and i'm going to start an army from scratch, but I think i'm in a minority with most people using their existing miniatures? That might unfortunately limit support going forward but I very much hope i'm wrong. I still think an "Order" Warcry expansion with several warband boxes from different realms would be great and, if done properly, could be a new core for Free Cities in the future.

Alas, I suspect this was a way to clear out lots of old stock.

[Balloon Dwarf]

I think we'll see cities from other realms get releases in white dwarf. Maybe a vs box between Warclans and Cities at some point representing Excelsis against Gordrakk's Great Waagh?

[Turin Turambar]

On 11/7/2019 at 10:12 PM, NatBrannigan said:

The models at the moment aren't copy writable enough I don't think, you can still go to other miniature companies and use their stuff instead. Not many Steampunk flying ships or half tree half elf models about.

yeah because bed sheet ghosts, half-snake women, human warriors in oversized plate armour (coughgenericfantasypaladinscough) steampunk ships, bone constructs  and walking trees are all uniquely GW concepts that no one thought of before and are 100% copy-right-able. *roles eyes* the only thing GW cares about when it comes to copy right is the names of things, hence 'Aelves'.

no models GW has ever made were 100% copyrightable

[NatBrannigan]

ok....

Roll your eyes all you want but I bet there are more companies making generic historical humans than half elf / half tree miniatures yes?

[Overread]

Look at Raging Heroes. They are a good example of a company that follows GW. It doesn't matter what GW releases, companies like that will simply produce alternate sculpts of the models without any pause. GW can make the most unique style of monster in the world and it will STILL get copied as a concept and alternatives produced. The best GW might get is a very short window where they can secure initial sales on an idea and thereafter its copied.

 

And as others said GW isn't even trying that. Medusa and harpies are what fills the new slots for Daughters of Khaine - both of those have been around in various forms for decades. Half elf ahlf tree things sure that's less common, but its hardly a world shattering idea and its easily copied. Same for almost everything else. 

 

Again GW isn't trying to make their models so outlandish that they are impossible to predict and copy; they are making the NAMES copyright so that casual googling will hit GW results and no-one else; but otherwise new designs are not protected. 

The shift away from rank and file spearmen into more high fantasy is more a result of a social shift in the market. The fantasy market has moved on from pure lord of the rings inspired low fantasy (seriously Old World was quite low magic for most armies even if the lore was full of it); into a high magic epic world inspired by the likes of Dungeons and Dragons; World of Warcraft and such. GW is just tapping into that; especially now that they are not bound to the limits of the Old World and Rank and File designs.

 

 

Heck the new Chaos knights and warriors are pretty much carbon copies of their earlier versions just upgraded to new sculpts and designs. If GW were mad about protecting their designs as you say then they'd have been straight out the door since they are easily copied as concepts (heck chaos warriors are just armoured dudes with chipped armour and a few insignia of chaos) 

[dekay]

2 minutes ago, NatBrannigan said:

Roll your eyes all you want but I bet there are more companies making generic historical humans than half elf / half tree miniatures yes?

Not to sound smug, but if you search for '28 mm dryad' you'll find 5+ companies making exactly those. Ents, treants, or treemen yield similar results. Actually, revenants bear striking resemblance to older models from rackham or tale of war. Quality may be questionable in some cases, but it's an entirely different subject.

You can also build a full idoneth army out of Mantic models, most of which came out *before* idoneth. 

Fyreslayers would be an extremely strange decision too, given that due to popularity of dwarf slayers basically every self respecting miniature company had their own version of 'half naked dwarf berserker' archetype. Hell, there were multipart plastic boxes of them way before fyresleayers were announced!

I really don't think GW cares about what other companies might do with their designs, and the whole 'easy to copyright' argument has been proven wrong time and time again.

(Also, to think of it when we look at old Empire line.. yeah most of it could be substituted with historical models but honestly, they chose quite niche time period as their inspiration. We can safely say that Ancients/Dark Ages/Medieval/Napoleonic/WW2 models occupy, like, 95% of historical miniature marked, while our rennesaince folks have to share the remaining 5% with all the other remaining time periods.)

[NatBrannigan]

Well like I said, I'd love to be wrong about this and get some genericish humans / elves etc in the future for Free Cities. I guess you're all right about it being mainly the names as well (be thankful we didn't get Hughmons or somesuch I suppose!) rather than the models. I just take slight exception when you get the immediate snarky comments instead of a nice friendly discussion. Talk on the internet as you would in person and all that, but now i'm the one living in a fantasy world

 

 

[Myrdin]

In short > I think CoS is safe at least until AoS 3.0 hits. Definitely not getting squatted right after repacking, a tome (and a very well received and popular one) release and what not. Plus there needs to be one generic human/elf/dwarfs  army among all the nonsense, and CoS fits the bill.

I guess we will see in the next 2 years what GW is up to with AoS.  Seeing as bunch of the old armies are making a proper return with up to date tomes (CoS, STD, Mawtribe Ogors), I dont think anything else that has not yet been is getting squatted  suddenly. At least not in 2.0.

Again who knows how things will look as we near 3.0 but thats still a LOOOOONG way to go.