AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Hebroseph]

It's a pretty standard Underguts list. Personally, id drop the gluttons and the spells for 12 more leadbelchers. More and more, I'm getting so much value out of my leadbelchers. 

[Frowny]

Has anybody tried yetis? I see lots of lists with gluttons but I just finished making 9. I'm excited about how they look and at least on paper, they seem strong. Losing out on damage to unbuffed gluttons but with rend, and that amazing 6inch activation to almost always strike first.

Is it worth going winterbite for 9 of them? I find they often get out past their buff artifact with the long pile in, so just going with bloodgullets or something might be better anyway. Or even going with the basic command stuff. 

3x3 or 1x9?

[EldritchX]

43 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Has anybody tried yetis? I see lots of lists with gluttons but I just finished making 9. I'm excited about how they look and at least on paper, they seem strong. Losing out on damage to unbuffed gluttons but with rend, and that amazing 6inch activation to almost always strike first.

Is it worth going winterbite for 9 of them? I find they often get out past their buff artifact with the long pile in, so just going with bloodgullets or something might be better anyway. Or even going with the basic command stuff. 

3x3 or 1x9?

I use a lot of them. You really need Winterbite for the General trait for +1 to wound and the ability to hit at the start of combat. I don't think they're good outside of that. Used correctly, they're brutal killers who'll make your opponent wonder whose turn it actually is. You should include some  -to be hit stuff too.

[Nubl0]

Anyone have idea on how we deal with shaven? I played a game today and for the first looked at the table and genuinely didn’t have a clue how to win. Scenario was total commitment and the lists were...

Tyrant w/Trophy wrack, red stuff cmd trait

slaughter master/blood feast, ribcracker 

slaughter master w/greasy deluge, bloodfeast, splatter cleaver 

2x 12 gluttons with 2 clubs 

8 iron guts 

2 leadbelchers

goremande batt, extra command point and balewind. Skaven were rocking 120 plague monks, 40clan rats, 20 storm vermin, grey seer with death frenzy, verminlord corruptor and a plague furnace priest.

I held back turn one setting up good charges for the next turn and his turn one he surged everything forward screening the blobs of monks with the rats and stormvermin. He did get the double turn but only wiped out one unit of gluttons with a unit of monks. Problem I had was the ogors just could not keep up with the sheer number of rats, my gluttons and ironguts were literally killing themselves when wiping out 2 monk units by just drowning in mortal wounds. Then another wave of monks would counter and kill them all. I managed to keep it at a one vp difference for 2 turns but after that I was pretty much cleared off the board by monks. 

I was thinking maybe dropping the cmd point and balewind for a screen of gnoblars but more often than not they just get in the way of the gluttons. I don’t really know what I can do vs giant hordes of that size, thoughts anyone?

[EldritchX]

33 minutes ago, Nubl0 said:

Anyone have idea on how we deal with shaven? I played a game today and for the first looked at the table and genuinely didn’t have a clue how to win. Scenario was total commitment and the lists were...

Tyrant w/Trophy wrack, red stuff cmd trait

slaughter master/blood feast, ribcracker 

slaughter master w/greasy deluge, bloodfeast, splatter cleaver 

2x 12 gluttons with 2 clubs 

8 iron guts 

2 leadbelchers

goremande batt, extra command point and balewind. Skaven were rocking 120 plague monks, 40clan rats, 20 storm vermin, grey seer with death frenzy, verminlord corruptor and a plague furnace priest.

I held back turn one setting up good charges for the next turn and his turn one he surged everything forward screening the blobs of monks with the rats and stormvermin. He did get the double turn but only wiped out one unit of gluttons with a unit of monks. Problem I had was the ogors just could not keep up with the sheer number of rats, my gluttons and ironguts were literally killing themselves when wiping out 2 monk units by just drowning in mortal wounds. Then another wave of monks would counter and kill them all. I managed to keep it at a one vp difference for 2 turns but after that I was pretty much cleared off the board by monks. 

I was thinking maybe dropping the cmd point and balewind for a screen of gnoblars but more often than not they just get in the way of the gluttons. I don’t really know what I can do vs giant hordes of that size, thoughts anyone?

Firstly, Plague Monks recently (a few days ago) had their Warscroll nerfed - so it might matter if your opponent was using the old rules.

Secondly, there are some suboptimal things in your list, like the Tyrant, extra command point, Balewind and even the Goremand and Leadies. You could get more Ironguts or even a full unit of 12 more Gluttons or a FLoSH.

[Nubl0]

We were using the new monk scroll, and I’ve been thinking a Flosh might help but honestly I think it would just die to a unit of monks in one round with only 13 wounds. Balewind deffo is going and probably the the cmd point, tyrants no battleshock cmd ability was pretty useful mind you. 

also kind of need the battalion for the extra relic so I can t a decent one on the Flosh and because ogors don’t really have decent screens I feel we need to dictate who goes first to avoid get alpha’d off the board. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Nubl0

[EldritchX]

1 hour ago, Nubl0 said:

We were using the new monk scroll, and I’ve been thinking a Flosh might help but honestly I think it would just die to a unit of monks in one round with only 13 wounds. Balewind deffo is going and probably the the cmd point, tyrants no battleshock cmd ability was pretty useful mind you. 

also kind of need the battalion for the extra relic so I can t a decent one on the Flosh and because ogors don’t really have decent screens I feel we need to dictate who goes first to avoid get alpha’d off the board. 

Gnoblars have been pretty good screens, in my experience. Against Monks specifically, I'd drop the tyrant for a Firebelly and Billowing Ash. And probably trade the Balewind for Geminids.

Remember that the Thundering Charge and Metalcruncher damage doesn't trigger the retaliatory mortal wounds, and you have a save against any caused on the FLoSH. If you charge strategically with a Thermalrider cloak, you can most likely prevent him from contacting with too many monks too (and avoid Frenzied Assault).

[Nubl0]

Problem with gnoblars is they’re so slow and will get wiped out in one round by most stuff. The gluttons then get a counter charge and probably wipe out the monks for example but then will in turn will get eaten by the next wave of them. 
 

firebelly is cool but I don’t see him being good in many other matchups.

[EldritchX]

17 minutes ago, Nubl0 said:

Problem with gnoblars is they’re so slow and will get wiped out in one round by most stuff. The gluttons then get a counter charge and probably wipe out the monks for example but then will in turn will get eaten by the next wave of them. 
 

firebelly is cool but I don’t see him being good in many other matchups.

Uh, I'm not really sure what you're expecting from a screen. It's a hundred points for a unit with 20 wounds that can stretch as far as 40". They're an inch slower than other screens on average.

As for the Firebelly, I in fact prefer to bring him over any other wizard in TAC lists, outside of Bloodgullet lists. If you want to outgrind others in melee, I don't think we can do any better than to stack penalties to hit.

If you don't like screens, then just drop the Tyrant, etc and bring another 12 Gluttons, I guess.

[Kramer]

53 minutes ago, Nubl0 said:

Problem with gnoblars is they’re so slow and will get wiped out in one round by most stuff. The gluttons then get a counter charge and probably wipe out the monks for example but then will in turn will get eaten by the next wave of them. 
 

firebelly is cool but I don’t see him being good in many other matchups.

If gnoblars are too slow to function as screens for you what about frost sabres? They are faster and setting them up length wise will claim some space. But with two wounds and a six up save its gonna be real easy for your opponent to remove some in the shooting phase an charging what you where screening. 

but if you take a hunter and some cats you can decide during set up if you need them as screens or to deepstrike which is a big plus in my book. 

[Nubl0]

1 hour ago, EldritchX said:

Uh, I'm not really sure what you're expecting from a screen. It's a hundred points for a unit with 20 wounds that can stretch as far as 40". They're an inch slower than other screens on average.

 

I expect nothing from the gnoblars haha! What I’m getting at is it’s not really a problem with them at all tbh. It’s more that the ogors counter charge but then get murdered in return. I think the issue is that perhaps monks are slightly to cheap in this specific instance. Damage output is so high nowadays that it’s effectively always trades, but there’s always going to be more skaven than ogor units on the field. 

frost sabers though could be a thing, and if I keep the Balewind I’m actually really tempted to try a firebelly over the second slaughtermaster for Tac purposes. 
 

 

[NinjaBadger7]

On 12/20/2019 at 9:29 AM, NinjaBadger7 said:

I've just bought the Blood Bowl Ogres to use two of them to make a butcher and a slaughtermaster

If I get chance over the xmas period to work on them I'll put some WIP photos on here

@rosa This is the start of my Butcher

I'm going to add more cleavers, meat etc once I get the BCR SC box to use the extras that come with it.

[rosa]

Thank you so much...

Are these just the normal weapons? Do they fit to the new arm? 

Do the regular Ogor arms fit onto the Body?

Edited December 24, 2019 by rosa
Typo

[NinjaBadger7]

3 minutes ago, rosa said:

Thank you so much...

Are these just the normal weapons? Do they fit to the new arm? 

Do the regular Ogor arms fit onto the Body?

That's just a Glutton sword cut down to be cleaver sized and the parts all seem to be in proportion.

I think the main difference is the AoS Ogor stuff is more "closed" pose with the BB Ogres being more "open" but size wise it all works

[Charleston]

1 hour ago, NinjaBadger7 said:

@rosa This is the start of my Butcher

I'm going to add more cleavers, meat etc once I get the BCR SC box to use the extras that come with it.

Great Idea! Should I expand my BCR into Mawtribes I surely will copycat this

 

btw, had yesterday my first 3 Way with my Ogors on 2k pts. It was a match against OBR and IDK, using the scoring of one of the "epic battles" from last tome, in which you get one point for every unit killed + additional ones for monsters, units with 20 or more wounds, general, heroes etc.

I´ve played an Eurlbad (Husskard, 2x4 Mournfangs, 1 Stonehorn), a Frostlord on SH and a unit of Thundertusk Riders. Ethereal Amulett on the FL, Alvgar Runetokens on the Husskard.

The game was a lot of fun and ended with a 12VP win for me, 10 VP´s for the OBR and 9 VP for IDK. I felt forced to play quite passive in the first two turns as I didn´t want to get in between two other armies. Also, charge distances didn´t look as good as required for a good turn. Turn 3 I was able to swipe through the board, kill several important targets and rise in VP from 1 (was charges by 5 kavalos deathriders turn 2) to 12, all including a really needed Doubleturn. Hitting Idoneth Deepkin on High Tide was really a hurting experience that I couldn´t avoid as much as I wanted to. Nevertheless, I scored in this 2 turns both Leviadons, his general, a unit of eels, althrough his Support Eidolon didn´t die as he rolled tons of sixes for his terrain-aftersave. The game was about to turn as the OBR player charged us and tabled the IDK player in the aftermath, drawing close with 10 CP. My last two units at this point were able to survive and have withdrawn from this combat as I didn´t wanted to feed the last CP to my opponent, especially as Katakros was coming to kill some stonecows by himself. Well, on the next turn he got initiative, came close, charged and...well, Katakros failed the charge on the Husskard and could only go for the Frostlord with the 3+ unrendable save. Meanwhile the Kavalos Deathrider went for the Husskard. At this point the game was tense as he needed to kill either one unit to win the game, althrough the charge roll forced him to split his forces. Katakros failed to wound the Frostlord, the Husskard didn´t manage to kill the Mounted Kavalos Hero and then it was his chance to attack and....the Husskard survived! We ended the game here. It was close and a huge lot of fun

I have to admit that Eurlbad is a great tool to smash through units with high defenses. Beeing able to do tons of Mortal Wounds is lifesaving as otherwise all thoose -1 to hit debuffs, that seem quite comon these days, would lead to really unfun games. Yet I didn´t played the Mournfangs in an optimal way to dish out the most possible hits.

Nevertheless, I really like this army, the game was a lot and the low model count allows to put a lot of love into each singe model

[Frowny]

People talking of gnoblars and dying on the counterpunch: have you tried putting your ogors 2.5 inches behind the gnoblars and just advancing up? That way if the plague monks hit the gnoblars you can still pile in the ogors and take out the offending unit over their 25mm base, leaving you free to charge and still take on another unit on your turn. Works even easier with ironguts.

[Jmason]

15 hours ago, NinjaBadger7 said:

@rosa This is the start of my Butcher

I'm going to add more cleavers, meat etc once I get the BCR SC box to use the extras that come with it.

Are these comparable in size to the older ogor models?

[NinjaBadger7]

3 hours ago, Jmason said:

Are these comparable in size to the older ogor models?

Yeah same size in my opinion, I've built some Gluttons and Leadbelchers at the same time

[Kramer]

6 hours ago, Frowny said:

People talking of gnoblars and dying on the counterpunch: have you tried putting your ogors 2.5 inches behind the gnoblars and just advancing up? That way if the plague monks hit the gnoblars you can still pile in the ogors and take out the offending unit over their 25mm base, leaving you free to charge and still take on another unit on your turn. Works even easier with ironguts.

For me that works amazing. But honestly rarely do my opponents now charge when I set it up like that but that’s a win in my book. 

[Hebroseph]

On 12/23/2019 at 5:32 PM, Nubl0 said:

Anyone have idea on how we deal with shaven? I played a game today and for the first looked at the table and genuinely didn’t have a clue how to win. Scenario was total commitment and the lists were...

Tyrant w/Trophy wrack, red stuff cmd trait

slaughter master/blood feast, ribcracker 

slaughter master w/greasy deluge, bloodfeast, splatter cleaver 

2x 12 gluttons with 2 clubs 

8 iron guts 

2 leadbelchers

goremande batt, extra command point and balewind. Skaven were rocking 120 plague monks, 40clan rats, 20 storm vermin, grey seer with death frenzy, verminlord corruptor and a plague furnace priest.

I held back turn one setting up good charges for the next turn and his turn one he surged everything forward screening the blobs of monks with the rats and stormvermin. He did get the double turn but only wiped out one unit of gluttons with a unit of monks. Problem I had was the ogors just could not keep up with the sheer number of rats, my gluttons and ironguts were literally killing themselves when wiping out 2 monk units by just drowning in mortal wounds. Then another wave of monks would counter and kill them all. I managed to keep it at a one vp difference for 2 turns but after that I was pretty much cleared off the board by monks. 

I was thinking maybe dropping the cmd point and balewind for a screen of gnoblars but more often than not they just get in the way of the gluttons. I don’t really know what I can do vs giant hordes of that size, thoughts anyone?

It helps if he uses a legal list. What you have listed doesn't work for skaven in this configuration. . You have 2 battle line, and 3 plague monk units. If you make the grey seer the warlod, the plague monks can be battleline,  but adding stormvermin break the Pestilence trait and remove the monks. He would either need to drop the clan rats and stormvermin all together to remain Pestilence, or pick up an extra battle line and just run 3 monk units in "Other"

That being said, I always forget a unit or two or mix up the names when i try and remember my opponents list, but as it sits that is a 1960 list so there isnt room for another battleline in there. 

As for how to beat it.. If you want to keep a similar bloodgullet-esque list, id drop one slaughtermaster for a butcher first off. The weakness of Plague monk lists is in alpha striking them first, and their mortal wound reflect only works in melee. I'd drop either a unit of gluttons, or 4 ironguts and the tyrant for more leadbelchers to take advantage of their weakness to shooting. Against a 6+ save plague monks, the 3/3/3/-/2 and 2/3/3/-1/2 are almost the same damage output. 

Id drop the tyrant, just flat. There is almost no reason to ever take a tyrant in todays Ogre lists. Only corner case is underguts shooting list, and even then its almost a waste. I've been having good luck with a balewind vortex and prismastic palisades. You are right, our ogres can kill most things on the charge, but then they fold to the counter punch. The palisades goes a long way towards minimizing the number of units who can get into your gluttons, and balewind helps keep your caster near the maw pot for an extra turn or two. 

Every game with my ogres I move more away from gluttons and more towards ironguts and leadbelchers. The rend almost always makes up for the lost attacks, especially with OBR boogie men hiding in your local game store.  That was kind of rambling, but hope that helps some !

Edited December 25, 2019 by Hebroseph

[Nubl0]

23 minutes ago, Hebroseph said:

It helps if he uses a legal list. What you have listed doesn't work for skaven in this configuration. . You have 2 battle line, and 3 plague monk units. If you make the grey seer the warlod, the plague monks can be battleline,  but adding stormvermin break the Pestilence trait and remove the monks. He would either need to drop the clan rats and stormvermin all together to remain Pestilence, or pick up an extra battle line and just run 3 monk units in "Other"

 

Huh that’s deffo what was in the skaven list, I just assumed stormvermin were always battleline. Tbh he’s quite new to the army so it’s fine. As for the tyrant... yeh he’s getting real hard to ever justify, his damage output is so swingy and seeing as my ogres tend to get flattened by any form of counter punch the command ability feels pretty pointless. The carnage iron guts van perform is pretty tasty so I think I’ll try another unit of 8 and they’re slightly more durable, leadys or the one blob of gluttons to screen them could work. 

Also what do people think of scrap launchers? In paper kinda naff but doing the maths they seem way better at denting hordes than either leadbelchers or cannons? 

[Kugane]

Hello everyone. I couldnt help myself to get some ogors due to their conversion potential and was wondering if any optimizes lists have emerged yet? I am also curious if leadbelchers are worth it at all?

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

Hello everyone. I couldnt help myself to get some ogors due to their conversion potential and was wondering if any optimizes lists have emerged yet? I am also curious if leadbelchers are worth it at all?

First said. I don’t often play the rock hard lists. For example haven’t played obr and don’t know anyone who jumped on that train. But leadbelchers for me are very valuable. I don’t leave home without 10 since my first practice games. 
don’t play them as a shooting unit tho. Understand they are your rend dealers that can play second wave. And then they will really function as a utility unit. 
That’s why I still believe an underguts list with two 10 leadbelcher squads will get some work done. But you will really have to built into that. 

All that said I don’t have a stone horn painted yet. The damage and speed he provides will likely knock them out of the list. 😑

[peasant]

2 hours ago, Kugane said:

Hello everyone. I couldnt help myself to get some ogors due to their conversion potential and was wondering if any optimizes lists have emerged yet? I am also curious if leadbelchers are worth it at all?

Im going to jump on the 4 ironblasters train hehe. Anyone tried?

[Forrix]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:07 AM, Hebroseph said:

Every game with my ogres I move more away from gluttons and more towards ironguts and leadbelchers. The rend almost always makes up for the lost attacks, especially with OBR boogie men hiding in your local game store.  That was kind of rambling, but hope that helps some !

Same here though I've been moving specifically towards Ironguts, FrostLord of Stonehorn, and tons of chaff. Gluttons look good on paper but they've been a disappointment in every game I've taken them. They die too easily for their cost and the lack of rend and difficulty in getting enough into combat means they always fall short when I need them to kill something.