AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[KingBrodd]

Anyone else really hoping for a Globb Glittermaw model this Edition? A serious version of Greasus Goldtooth.

[Lord Krungharr]

This may have been discussed already, but do the Beastriders still keep their Behemoth role AND have their Battleline role if the general is BCR?  I couldn't find anywhere that says they lose the Behemoth role.  Seems like they'd specify it lost Behemoth if that was the case.  If the Beastriders maintain both Battlefield Roles then they could be in a Linebreaker right?

[Schauer]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:18 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm wondering if you can get rid of the Gorger to upgrade the HoSH to a FLoSH?  Though I suppose the Gorger can help you fill out a batallion and deepstrike to an unsuspecting objective.  

 

See I was thinking of that initially but I really like linebreaker giving a unit of mournfang a damage characteristic of 3 which sets up a really potent hit of 16 dice 4+/3+/-1/3 

 

But then again, you know it might not always be the most accessible thing to do and the army already has a lot of buffs/ca to dish out to MF as it is. Also worth noting that the FLOSH obviously is very self sufficient and might provide a good distraction for the kitties to do their own thing. 

 

Unfortunately I was only able to get one game in this weekend and since it was against a newer player, I went for a less competitive list so that I didnt try to throw much on them all at once. I did get to use the Troggoth Hag and man her spell is great! its a shame bringing her in is a 380 point investment because she did a ton of work

[WindstormSCR]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:18 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

This may have been discussed already, but do the Beastriders still keep their Behemoth role AND have their Battleline role if the general is BCR?  I couldn't find anywhere that says they lose the Behemoth role.  Seems like they'd specify it lost Behemoth if that was the case.  If the Beastriders maintain both Battlefield Roles then they could be in a Linebreaker right?

no, they do not keep behemoth, and therefore do not qualify for "monster" for list building. good thing too, or you'd run out of behemoth slots stupid fast.

the reference you're looking for is 25.5.1 "conditional battlefield roles"
 

Quote

Sometimes, the Notes column on a Pitched Battle profile will tell you to change the battlefield role of units of that type if certain conditions are met. For example, choosing a certain model to be your general can mean the battlefield role of certain units changes to Battleline. Where this is the case, unless noted otherwise, the unit loses all of the battlefield roles in the Battlefield Role column of its Pitched Battle profile and just has the battlefield role specified in the Notes column instead.A unit that has a conditional battlefield role keeps it for the entire battle, even if the conditions that required it to have that battlefield role in the first place change during the battle (your general is slain, for example)

 

[WindstormSCR]

On 7/6/2021 at 2:18 PM, Schauer said:

First pass on the list I plan to use for a FLGS RTT in a few months as well as a GT the month after.

Tribe: Thunderbellies

Leaders:
Huskard on Thundertusk (GENERAL) - Storm Chaser - Shatterstone - Rimefrost Hide

Huskard on Stonehorn - Metalcruncher*

Butcher - Blood Feast

Slaughtermaster - Ribcracker

Units
4x Mournfang w Gargant Hackers

4x Mournfang w Gargant Hackers

4x Mournfang w Clubs

1 Gorger

* - Havent had a chance to read the rules too much on enhancements but since I would be taking the Battle Regiment I know I would get an extra enhancement but not sure if that enhancement gets taken with Slaughtermaster getting a spell. If I am in the clear to bring that second mount trait I would take metalcruncher but if not it would be what goes away. 

 

Basically the idea of the list is to play the edge and clear the distance T1 with the mournfangs ability to R+C. From there on there are a plethora of buffs that can be handed out to the gargant hacker mournfang to make them very dangerous from Linebreakers to Rip+Tear, to all out attack, Bloodfeast, Spineamarrow, and Ribcracker. Club Mournfang's job is to play the consistent damage dealer role but I could also opt for 2 sets of 2 and let them be objective holders. Gorger is only in the list because im left at 1910 points beforehand and there isnt much else I can throw in. If anything he might be able to get a few points of damage in on a backline hero and with the frontline units being held up by the mournfang they should at least have some allies around. All in all its a very aggressive game plan and allows you to score some easy secondary objectives early on in the game with having units in enemy territory since its pretty much guaranteed with the mournfangs ability to run+charge with a 9+2 inch movement. 

 

Anyone have ideas on some tweaks to the list? My first chance to playtest this will be Saturday so Ill be able to know for sure if it plays as good as I think it will.
 

 

 

you don't get the extra mount trait here. the only way to get an extra enhancement is to take a warlord detachment, or a command entourage and choose the extra enhancement option (warlord gives both the extra and additional command points)

BCR can also never ever fulfill the linebreaker or alpha-beast-pack core battalion requirements, on account of all behemoths that are not leaders losing the keyword as soon as you have a BCR general (they become battleline, and a regular unit, see the post above)

without changing the posted list, the way to make it legal is to put one of the 10+ wound leaders into a warlord, along with the butcher, slaughtermaster, and 1 other unit.

the butcher and slaughtermaster still get 1 spell each on account of your standard 1 spell lore enhancement, which reads as follows:

 

Quote

27.3.4 SPELL LORES
Each time you take a spell lore enhancement, you can pick 1 spell for each Wizard in your army from any of the spell lores available to that Wizard (you can pick different spells from different spell lores for different Wizards). Each Wizard knows the spell that you picked for them in addition to the other spells they know.

 

Personally, here's the meanest list I've come up with, though I'm still contemplating dropping the butcher to a second firebelly purely to fit in the burning head to dissuade units for grouping up (and forming a nice one-two punch with the pulverising hailstorm).

I think it's very amusing we can make a FLoSH both a priest and a wizard, which creates something of a self-healing, self-buffing monstrosity, and having the huskard finally having a 5+ ward from amulet to fit in with the stonehorns is great.

Multiple monsters also helps us out with the current GHB battle tactics and the various ghur effects.

as far as the blood vulture choices, I love the look of chaintraps, but from a purely tournament power perspective, having 4 birds means a very good chance to just rip apart a low-wounds hero from range.

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: None
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (430) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Touched by the Everwinter
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher

- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal

- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
Huskard on Thundertusk (335)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Prayer: Pulverising Hailstorm
Firebelly (125) in Warlord
- Lore of the Sun-Eater: Billowing Ash
Butcher (135) in Warlord
- Cleaver
- Lore of Gutmagic: Molten Entrails

Battleline
Stonehorn Beastriders (320) in Warlord
- Weapon: Blood Vulture
Stonehorn Beastriders (320) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Weapon: Blood Vulture
Stonehorn Beastriders (320) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Weapon: Blood Vulture

Core Battalions
Warlord
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 75

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by WindstormSCR

[Lord Krungharr]

1 hour ago, WindstormSCR said:

no, they do not keep behemoth, and therefore do not qualify for "monster" for list building. good thing too, or you'd run out of behemoth slots stupid fast.

the reference you're looking for is 25.5.1 "conditional battlefield roles"
 

 

Thanks for the reference!  Guess it's both beneficial and detrimental.

I will try out that list you wrote there vs my Sons of Behemat (just have to proxy the FIrebelly).  Gotta get fired up for some events in the next few months!

[KrrNiGit]

I’m calling it the invincible frostlord list... healing from the pot healing from heroic recovery healing from lifeswarm... what does everyone think?

[Mokoshkana]

2 hours ago, KrrNiGit said:

I’m calling it the invincible frostlord list... healing from the pot healing from heroic recovery healing from lifeswarm... what does everyone think?

You cannot double up on mount traits (I know RAW it currently works, but that is not RAI, and it will get killed in the next FAQ).

[WindstormSCR]

6 hours ago, KrrNiGit said:

I’m calling it the invincible frostlord list... healing from the pot healing from heroic recovery healing from lifeswarm... what does everyone think?

interesting idea, but using reinforced mournfang instead of a stonehorn is a net loss, and battle regiment doesn't really gain you much since if you want to one-drop you have to really build for it. Better to grab a warlord for the double bonus and then hunters of the heartlands the rest for monster rampage immunity.

doubling up on mount traits isn't a thing, sadly. I guess black clatterhorn would be a good second pick for the second frostlord so you get the +1 hit on the horns at least, since you'll be AoAing the primary frostlord

 

[Schauer]

2 hours ago, WindstormSCR said:

interesting idea, but using reinforced mournfang instead of a stonehorn is a net loss, and battle regiment doesn't really gain you much since if you want to one-drop you have to really build for it. Better to grab a warlord for the double bonus and then hunters of the heartlands the rest for monster rampage immunity.

doubling up on mount traits isn't a thing, sadly. I guess black clatterhorn would be a good second pick for the second frostlord so you get the +1 hit on the horns at least, since you'll be AoAing the primary frostlord

 

 

Beastriders are more efficient than mournfang, but once they start to bracket mournfang start coming out ahead. The graph ive attached is assuming the unit succesfully charged too, so i suspect mournfang would come out a little better as a result in prolonged combat especially vs 5+ save tarpits

 

It is worth mentioning that the amount of wounds needed to bracket the stonehorn to a noticeable level is the same amount needed to kill a mournfang. 

[WindstormSCR]

1 hour ago, Schauer said:

 

Beastriders are more efficient than mournfang, but once they start to bracket mournfang start coming out ahead. The graph ive attached is assuming the unit succesfully charged too, so i suspect mournfang would come out a little better as a result in prolonged combat especially vs 5+ save tarpits

 

It is worth mentioning that the amount of wounds needed to bracket the stonehorn to a noticeable level is the same amount needed to kill a mournfang. 

interesting, and certainly a good reason to roll 1 mournfang/2 stonehorn I think if it holds up. but the thing that makes me lean towards stonehorn still is the realmscape magic that lets monsters use top bracket.

does the graph account for the ward save the stonehorn has and the mournfangs do not? I'd also like to see the effects of blood feast and molten entrails applied at various brackets for a full picture.

 

seems you might be right, did some tinkering with anydice and it looks like at least until you're down to 2 mournfangs, they definitely outstrip the stonehorn on the damage front, though I'm still having some trouble finding a good simulation option for the trampling charge difference. I'll probably play both and see how things pan out in practice.

Edited July 14, 2021 by WindstormSCR

[KrrNiGit]

6 hours ago, WindstormSCR said:

interesting idea, but using reinforced mournfang instead of a stonehorn is a net loss, and battle regiment doesn't really gain you much since if you want to one-drop you have to really build for it. Better to grab a warlord for the double bonus and then hunters of the heartlands the rest for monster rampage immunity.

doubling up on mount traits isn't a thing, sadly. I guess black clatterhorn would be a good second pick for the second frostlord so you get the +1 hit on the horns at least, since you'll be AoAing the primary frostlord

 

My thinking behind the mournfang were as screens more than having them kill anything. And having a unit of 4 will give look out sir to my squishy wizards. Plus they don’t give up extra VP for being monsters to kill. 

Over battalions and drops I’m not really sold on the anti-monster one yet. I don’t really care if they’re killing my units as I will be spending those commands on the Frosties anyway. So I thought going a 4 drop doesn’t really cost me anything and will give me a chance at deciding turn order occasionally. 

[HostilSpike]

On 7/14/2021 at 3:10 PM, Mokoshkana said:

You cannot double up on mount traits (I know RAW it currently works, but that is not RAI, and it will get killed in the next FAQ).

I'm curious as to why you're so sure it'll get FAQ'd out, other factions are allowed multiple instances of the same mount trait so there's always a chance this isn't an oversight 

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah I was wondering about the mount trait issue.  Though I don't think having to take different ones is that detrimental, as in Boulderhead the general gets Brand of the Svard for +1 to hit in general anyways, so he really can't benefit as much from the Clatterhorn as another one can.  

And metalcruncher vs something like Beasts of Chaos or Daemons of whatever god wouldn't pay off as much on multiple FLoSHs.  

Plus I can't imagine someone running more than 2 FLoSHs most of the time....

[Kadeton]

If duplicate mount traits are allowed, then Metalcruncher is by far the most valuable. Black Clatterhorn is okay, but you can spend 1 CP on All-Out Attack to get a much stronger effect which doesn't stack with it; there's no command ability to deal a bunch of mortal wounds. Yes, there are situations where Metalcruncher won't work (your enemy has universally poor saves, for instance) but in those cases the pure damage of a Frostlord tends to wipe them out anyway. Metalcruncher gives you the edge against targets which are highly resistant to normal damage, where Clatterhorn is the opposite, working best against lightly-armoured targets where it will often be wasted on overkill.

And when (or if) the FAQ comes out to prevent duplicates, you can just switch back to using the other traits. But until then, might as well enjoy going CRONCH CRONCH CROMCH through the enemy forces!

[Mokoshkana]

20 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

I'm curious as to why you're so sure it'll get FAQ'd out, other factions are allowed multiple instances of the same mount trait so there's always a chance this isn't an oversight 

I just believe It will get FAQ'd out for everyone. Outside of spells/prayers, no army can double up on enhancements like artifacts or command traits, Even when referring to spells/prayers, they may only be cast once per round, so there is still a singular restriction of sorts. Given all of that, it would not make sense for the designers to all something like mount traits to completely ignore the unique restriction of other enhancements.

From a gameplay perspective, it would be horrible for the game as it allows armies with multiple mounts (which can take traits) to just abuse the best trait.

[HostilSpike]

2 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:

I just believe It will get FAQ'd out for everyone. Outside of spells/prayers, no army can double up on enhancements like artifacts or command traits, Even when referring to spells/prayers, they may only be cast once per round, so there is still a singular restriction of sorts. Given all of that, it would not make sense for the designers to all something like mount traits to completely ignore the unique restriction of other enhancements.

From a gameplay perspective, it would be horrible for the game as it allows armies with multiple mounts (which can take traits) to just abuse the best trait.

Flesh Eater Courts have been explicitly allowed to take multiples of the same Mount Traits since 2019 and no one considered them all taking Gruesome Bite horrible for the game.

I'm not saying I'm convinced we'll keep multiple Metalcrunchers, just playing devil's advocate because GW rarely have the same opinions on balance as their player base. 

Either way there's no harm in taking it while it's RAW, probably good sportsmanship to run it by your opponent before a game though seeing as it won't make or break your list.

[Lord Krungharr]

I imagine it to be like a special type of exotic Stonehorns, like Wagyu beef, but bred to eat metal instead of being all well-marbled for being eaten (now I'm hungry).  Probably from Chamon.  Then they can all be painted like they have grillz on their teeth 😁

For my next Ogors match, I'm using Bloodgullet (Butcher/2 Slaughtermasters/2x8 Ironguts/4 Leadbelchers).  For the remainder I'm on the fence about another 4 Ironguts and more Leadbelchers....or should I take a Tyrant, 2 Mourfangs, Emerald Lifeswarm and maybe some other endless spell?

I could do a Warlord and Battle Regiment battalions with the latter build.  The Tyrant could do his anti-battleshock on the big Ironguts units and wield a mighty Splatter-Cleaver.  Really not sure about the Leadbelchers vs Mournfangs.  Haven't used either very much.  I'll be playing against either Slaves to Darkness, possibly Gloomspite Gitz, or more unlikely Soulblight Gravelords.

Also for the Wizards in an army, does their first spell come from either the Universal Lore OR the Tome Lore?  Or do they know a Tome spell in addition to a Universal Lore spell?  Then for Bloodgullet, looks like the 2nd spell they know must be from the Gutmagic Lore?

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Lord Krungharr

[EldritchX]

On 7/18/2021 at 5:54 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Also for the Wizards in an army, does their first spell come from either the Universal Lore OR the Tome Lore?  Or do they know a Tome spell in addition to a Universal Lore spell?  Then for Bloodgullet, looks like the 2nd spell they know must be from the Gutmagic Lore?

 

The former, and yes.

[HostilSpike]

On 7/17/2021 at 10:54 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

I imagine it to be like a special type of exotic Stonehorns, like Wagyu beef, but bred to eat metal instead of being all well-marbled for being eaten (now I'm hungry).  Probably from Chamon.  Then they can all be painted like they have grillz on their teeth 😁

For my next Ogors match, I'm using Bloodgullet (Butcher/2 Slaughtermasters/2x8 Ironguts/4 Leadbelchers).  For the remainder I'm on the fence about another 4 Ironguts and more Leadbelchers....or should I take a Tyrant, 2 Mourfangs, Emerald Lifeswarm and maybe some other endless spell?

 

I don't see a place for the Tyrant anymore. His old appeal was Command Point efficiency Vs Inspiring presence but with there being so many more command points now it seems less relevant.

I can't imagine a list without a Frostlord in it, they're just our best units by a large margin. The FLoTT gained a huge amount of survivability if you take the 5+ Ward Artefact and the worsen rend by 1 Mount Trait.

[Wazzuli]

I think a Tyrant is still OK lol. You can only do the Inspiring Presance once so he still keeps a little of the efficiency if you get stuck in at multiple places. I do agree though FLoSH is hard to beat!

[Schauer]

Having a hard time picking out a scheme for my Ogor army im recoloring. Which of the four schemes I mocked do you guys like the most? 

 

https://imgur.com/a/b5oKpPV

[Lord Krungharr]

5 hours ago, Schauer said:

Having a hard time picking out a scheme for my Ogor army im recoloring. Which of the four schemes I mocked do you guys like the most? 

 

https://imgur.com/a/b5oKpPV

I'm quite partial to #2 and 3 as they look quite natural.   If you have multiple units of Mournfangs I'd do both to differentiate units.  The pretty colors can be for their pants.  

[EldritchX]

On 7/20/2021 at 12:06 AM, HostilSpike said:

I don't see a place for the Tyrant anymore. His old appeal was Command Point efficiency Vs Inspiring presence but with there being so many more command points now it seems less relevant.

I can't imagine a list without a Frostlord in it, they're just our best units by a large margin. The FLoTT gained a huge amount of survivability if you take the 5+ Ward Artefact and the worsen rend by 1 Mount Trait.

I mostly see the Tyrant being useful for the Trophy Rack now, tbh. That said, there should be a lot more worthwhile Hero/Monster targets around, so maybe? Definitely useful in an Underguts list.

[PainfullyMediocre]

17 hours ago, Schauer said:

Having a hard time picking out a scheme for my Ogor army im recoloring. Which of the four schemes I mocked do you guys like the most? 

 

https://imgur.com/a/b5oKpPV

1 and 4 are very unique, 1 looks Shyshian.

I've submitted a list for an event, I haven't had much time to prep for 3rd so its a total no brainer, if I get a single win it'll be a bonus. I have 2 test games this week, one today against either SoB or a 2 FLOSH BCR list and tomorrow against a Tzeentch Archaon army, so they'll be tough games.

Boulderhead:

Kragnos

FLOSH: Metalcruncher, General

Huskard on Stonehorn: Metalcruncher, Brand of the Svard

3x2 Mournfang: Gargant Hackers, in Hunters battalion

2 Frost Sabers

=2k on the nose

Should be a good chuckle of a list, some stuff will batter me senseless, but some other lists will just get rolled by the damage. I put Svard on the Huskard as its main damage is the horns and hooves, the FLOSH benefits from Titanic Duel and All out Attack more as the spear gets a bonus to hit as well.