AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Btimmy]

12 minutes ago, Sception said:

But yeah, not 100% terrible news, and probably not as bad a situation as slaanesh is in, but I do not hold out a lot of hope for this faction being particularly relevant in 3e.  That said, I've been super wrong many times before, and I've played exactly zero 3e games myself, so maybe, hopefully, I'm throwing a fit over nothing.  I won't be complaining if I end up with egg on my face over this.

You don't need to play 3.0 to know that we strictly got worse. Literally zero changes benefitted us in any way, and in fact everything that made all the other armies better actively made us worse. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Btimmy

[Emissary]

3 minutes ago, Chris H said:

Sounds good, didn't realize they were on 25s, almost everything is on 32+ for my NH (so glad I painted up 20 Bladegeists...) and yes I was trying to justify something besides Petrifex, but I just don't see it. I'll probably do a custom color scheme so I can switch things around.

I ended up picking up Horreks riders, box of mortek guard, crawler, harvester, stalker/immortis box and a couple foot heroes. I already had Arkhan from the start collecting skeleton horde. Do people have any thoughts on 20 vs 30 mortek guard in a unit? Also I realize they aren't great, but could Immortis guard see some play as babysitters for some of our more fragile heroes?

 

Either 20 or 30 will work.  With the change to command abilities, I only see myself using one main unit of guard not as only 1 unit can get the shield wall.  I've never been that down on Immortis Guard, but I do think there are better options.  Personally, I'm a huge fan of Morghast Harbringers.  I love running 4 and I think they've only gotten better in Petrifex Armies now.  Plus they got a small 5 point deduction on cost!

[rosa]

So, its true? We cannot use our resilient desclipline more than one per phase?

than this army army is pretty much dead!

 

[Emissary]

Just now, rosa said:

So, its true? We cannot use our resilient desclipline more than one per phase?

than this army army is pretty much dead!

 

You can't use the same command ability more than once per phase right now.  You can use different command abilities with relentless discipline in the same phase.

Overall, I'm waiting to get a few games in before the sky is falling.  The army is dead or we got literally nothing posts are a bit of hyperbole and theatre which doesn't help adapting to the new rules.

[Btimmy]

5 minutes ago, Emissary said:

You can't use the same command ability more than once per phase right now.  You can use different command abilities with relentless discipline in the same phase.

Overall, I'm waiting to get a few games in before the sky is falling.  The army is dead or we got literally nothing posts are a bit of hyperbole and theatre which doesn't help adapting to the new rules.

Genuinely curious, what exactly do you think we got? How is the army in any way not worse for the changes? Obviously the one monster we have got access to monster rules, but you don't want that monster in melee anyway. 

[rosa]

7 minutes ago, Emissary said:

 

Overall, I'm waiting to get a few games in before the sky is falling.  The army is dead or we got literally nothing posts are a bit of hyperbole and theatre which doesn't help adapting to the new rules.

I don’t care if you think this is theatre!

One of the main features this army was build around are discipline point and their unique command abilities. 
 

you don’t need a PHD to realize that this is bonkers and pretty much worse than before, if this main feature doesn’t work anymore. 

[Chris H]

Being new to the army, it seems like the number of discipline points we can generate every round would be almost impossible to use with how the rules currently are. Am I missing something on this?

[Emissary]

5 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

Genuinely curious, what exactly do you think we got? How is the army in any way not worse for the changes? Obviously the one monster we have got access to monster rules, but you don't want that monster in melee anyway. 

The board size for one.  The game pushes you together more and your armies no longer start 24" most of the time.  Most of the time you're starting 22"-18" apart.  This really helps for a mid-field army that we have and helps to offset the loss of giving multiple units a +3" of movement a turn.  Plus we have some fast units like the cav and harbringers which this helps.  Having a set of tough, renewable infantry being able to march up is still good.

Secondly, a lot of armies lost reroll 1s for armor saves.  Not only did the Mortek Guard retain shield wall, but the changes to mystic shield and petrifex elite really help them in survivability.  (The changes to Mystic Shield and Petrifex Elite help the army overall honestly).  They effectively have a 2+ rerollable save in that set up (thought 1s and 2s always fail.)  That's really big.  Plus, you can run them easily in the Hunters of the Heartlands core battalion  so that they aren't affected by Monster Rampages so the shield wall can't get denied.

We are getting a free 1-2 relentless discipline points now for going first or second.

Arkhan is strictly better being a monster and a hero and is much better as long as he can spam mystic shield.  

I've already talked about the Bone-Tithe Shrieker before so you can just scroll above for my thoughts on that.

The new unit coherency rules don't punish us nearly as much as they do others.  The mortek guard don't care as they're still getting the same number of attacks which anything on a larger than 25mm base got a nerf in that department.

Just a few off the top of my head.

[jhamslam]

23 minutes ago, Emissary said:

You can't use the same command ability more than once per phase right now.  You can use different command abilities with relentless discipline in the same phase.

Overall, I'm waiting to get a few games in before the sky is falling.  The army is dead or we got literally nothing posts are a bit of hyperbole and theatre which doesn't help adapting to the new rules.

its a huge blow. If they had opened up normal command abilities to us, we d be ok. They didnt

So we generate a ton of RDP but cant use it all because we cant stack CAs, not even our own.

[jhamslam]

On the bright side, Petrifex and MP is the way to go.

Nightmare Predator is damn good for 65

Arkhan and his Mystic Shield shenanigan being intact is good

And we can likely expect new Legion Abilities like Relentless ADvance in a new book

[Sception]

11 minutes ago, Chris H said:

Being new to the army, it seems like the number of discipline points we can generate every round would be almost impossible to use with how the rules currently are. Am I missing something on this?

Nope.  This is likely why lieges (including katakros and zandtos) all got significantly cheaper in the points update.  The extra RDP they generate is no longer terribly significant.

[Emissary]

One other thing if you haven't played 3.0 yet.  It looks like the other armies have a ton of options and are getting a ton more command points.  Yes, there are more, but in our test games they're not getting everything you're assuming all the time.  They aren't getting Unleash Hell AND All Out Defense AND Inspiring Presence AND faction command abilities every turn.  getting 2-4 is more but we still get at least double that.  It has been more, but it wasn't like we were expecting.  It's more like when your opponent would save up and use them all in one turn.  

Edited July 2, 2021 by Emissary

[jhamslam]

Made a quick list. Liege isnt as much of an auto take so went spell heavy

 

 

This is played as Petrifex. Arkhan for mystic shield stuff, we can take drain vitality and empower nadirite weapons on the others. since we cant use multiple RDP abilities rn, this should still let us do RDP stuff, so one shield wall + bludgeon = 2 in the combat phase, 1 for relentless advance and one for deathrider wedge. we should never need more than 4 rdp in our turn and no more than 2 in the opponents turn

Edited July 2, 2021 by jhamslam

[Tronhammer NZ]

Rule 6.1 says a unit cannot receive more than one command per phase. So there is no stacking Shield Wall with Bludgeon, or Endless Duty, or Still Their Breath. You get to choose one of those. 

Katakros' aura still gets to stack with other abilities though because it is used in the hero phase rather than combat. And Counterstrike is in the charge phase.

 

[Altair554488]

A thematic approach to give some more flexibility would be to give katakros a rule that lets him (and only him) use RDP to issue command abilities from the main rulebook,  he is meant to be a master tactician after all, or give an item/legion ability to choose a single command ability from the main rulebook to give a hero, e.g. change mortis praetorian Katakros Chosen ability to "choose one command ability from the main rulebook, this hero may use RDP to use that command ability", or give us a couple of extra army CA's in addition to Unstoppable advance. Guess it will have to wait untill our next battletome  .

[Sleboda]

9 hours ago, SilverJelly said:

FAQs are up. OBR does NOT get to use generic command abilities.

PE is now worsen rend by -1

Shrieker prevents Rally and Inspiring Pressence to be used within 12 along with +1 to hit

Terrain piece has to be setup in your territory

Yeah. From what I'm reading,  the FAQ is pretty much a big insult on top of a huge injury. I know we're supposed to be positive here,  but man,  this is tough.  Like they say "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment," and I had hope that the FAQ would fix the egregious wrongs visited upon this army by 3.0. Instead,  it made things worse.

[Sleboda]

8 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Deathrider Wedge specific states a unit can't benefit from it repeatedly.

That implies we're supposed to be able to use things more than once.

Implication is not ruling.

So no duplication.

[Sleboda]

6 hours ago, Emissary said:

The new unit coherency rules don't punish us nearly as much as they do others.  The mortek guard don't care as they're still getting the same number of attacks which anything on a larger than 25mm base got a nerf in that department.

Mark my words:  25mm bases will go away and be replaced by 28mm bases, specifically to "fix" this gap within the rules.

[Obeisance]

What do you guys think of this? I used to run Petrifex when OBR was new and was running Katacross after that. I haven't played AOS in about a year. Got a V3 game today.

edit: Apparently you can't buy warlord traits. Boo.

2-Drop Petrifex, 1990pts

Arkhan, Leige, Soulreaper
2x 20 Morteks
5 Deathriders
2x Crawler
Predator
Shrieker

2-Drop Petrifex, 2000pts

Arkhan, Leige, Soulreaper
2x 20 Morteks
5 Deathriders
Crawler
Harvester
Predator
Shrieker

Just snowballing/writing lists to see what works.

I'm finding the biggest problem is trying to maintain around 4 drops or less and number of characters required. If I want a Warlord batallion, I need 3 characters.. but then I also want a Unified Drop batallion as well. Which means 4 characters. There's no way in hell I can afford that.

I kinda want either Shrieker for +1 to hit or Helm of the Ordained for the same.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Obeisance

[Emissary]

55 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Mark my words:  25mm bases will go away and be replaced by 28mm bases, specifically to "fix" this gap within the rules.

Doubtful.  The new skeletons and zombies came on 25mm bases.  They would not want to repackage all that.  

[Sleboda]

3 hours ago, Emissary said:

Doubtful.  The new skeletons and zombies came on 25mm bases.  They would not want to repackage all that.  

Good point.

[Honk]

9 hours ago, Emissary said:

They would not want to repackage all that.  

Or they just wouldn’t…

I still got direwolves on square bases two years ago 

but there are a lot of infantry on 24mm bases, so a general switch to 28mm would be kinda stupid and the uproar a sight to behold.
Almost as stupid as measuring in inch and defining base sizes in mm, but that’s just my metric talk 🤣

[baiardo]

So, we a have a lot of rdp that we can't use with the new abilities, I don't get that.

What's the point, in 3th ed., of having rdp generation?Where's the advantage?

Why someone should play OBR beside their looking?if their great strenght is still and only mortek, for now, we are big nerfed.

If that is the direction of the faction, we should have more powerful abilities or more faction CAs or both.

FAQ don't change much, we need to wait and see the new battletome(with no hope😆).

[Archibald]

15 hours ago, Obeisance said:

2-Drop Petrifex, 1990pts

Arkhan, Leige, Soulreaper
2x 20 Morteks
5 Deathriders
2x Crawler
Predator
Shrieker

2-Drop Petrifex, 2000pts

Arkhan, Leige, Soulreaper
2x 20 Morteks
5 Deathriders
Crawler
Harvester
Predator
Shrieker

where do the 10 points between the two lists difference come from? You just changed one Crawler (points) into a Harvester (215 points).

Is being lowdrop still a thing? I thought in 3.0 it doesn't matter any more?

Petrifex with Arkhan sounds quite interesting. I will be ordering my Arkhan soon to test it out.😊

Here are some more pictures of my progress. I'm on the finishing line, only Nagash, Nexus and 10 Mortek to go.

 

[Btimmy]

28 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Is being lowdrop still a thing? I thought in 3.0 it doesn't matter any more?

I wouldn't believe people who are saying this. Being able to dictate who goes first and therefore guarantee that you don't waste a hero phase with nothing to heal/set yourself up for the double is going to be big. Plus, OBR doesn't gain all that much from extra artefacts/whatever.