Warcry- Untamed Beasts Discussion

[S133arcanite]

Topic about the Untamed Beasts, be it rules, lore or painting and converting. I feel like the Untamed Beasts are one of the most conversion-potential-y of the warbands, so I'm looking forward to what people can come up with!

[Bjornas]

Great initiative, I've been pondering how to choose my warband members alot in the past days. There's a few things I'd like to discuss, based on what we know at the moment:

1. First Fang - one or two? I think he looks really solid and the ranged attack seems quite strong for its range. I'm probably gonna convert the Heart-eater mini to a second one and run two of them (I'll convert my own Heart-eater instead).

2.  Preytakers - axes or swords? Basically it's A3/S4 or A4/S3. I think Strength is gonna be a biggie in this game so I'm voting axes. You?

3. Plains-runners. Are they useful at all except as chaff? Move 5 but they hit like wet tissues. Maybe to snatch objectives? Are there any rules on break/battleshock/bottle tests that make quantity of warband members matter?

[Lure Of The Gods]

28 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

2.  Preytakers - axes or swords? Basically it's A3/S4 or A4/S3. I think Strength is gonna be a biggie in this game so I'm voting axes. You?

 

Yeah, going off of the stats we've seen so far I feel S4 or higher attacks are going to be best, most warbands will  have toughness 3 or 4 with only the rare fighter having 5. Though someone will do the math on rolling more dice increasing the crit chance which will do more damage which will make up for being harder to hit. Will be interesting to see what people think.

 

[polishsausage]

From what it sounds like you want to maximize you dice rolls for the juicy 6's Crits

I would say 4A over 4S

[Lure Of The Gods]

Current list I'm thinking of which will require converting or 2 boxes..

Hearteater 

First Fang x 2

Beastspeaker

Rocktusk Prowler x 2

Plains-runner

=1000pts

[Bjornas]

3 minutes ago, polishsausage said:

From what it sounds like you want to maximize you dice rolls for the juicy 6's Crits

I would say 4A over 4S

In a general situation I'd agree, Preytakers have 2 base damage though which makes their output a bit more reliable. Plus Iron Golem with their T4 are gonna be very popular.

[wander]

1 hour ago, Lure Of The Gods said:

Yeah, going off of the stats we've seen so far I feel S4 or higher attacks are going to be best, most warbands will  have toughness 3 or 4 with only the rare fighter having 5. Though someone will do the math on rolling more dice increasing the crit chance which will do more damage which will make up for being harder to hit. Will be interesting to see what people think.

 

That's a tough one. In discussion off-site it was decided that Attacks are priority (more chance of hits/crits), then damage (to quicker take down high HP targets) with Str last, though the tougher Golems would mean that successful hits are reduced from 50% to two in three. It doesn't matter if an enemy going against S3 is T4 or T5 though, as the chance will always be 1 of 3 succeed.

I think in this case, the damage is the deciding factor and they're both 2/4. Mathhammer would put hits at roughly the same versus Golems, though Attack number means more potential crits, so Swords is what I would vote for.

Luckily you can muster from a roster, so you can plan ahead depending on comp, though also I guess it depends on how many of each sculpt you'd have too.

Edited July 18, 2019 by wander

[obaobaboss]

I think the rules of Untamed Beasts could be used very good with Beastmen Miniatures as alternatives.

[wander]

For sure, their fluff certainly reads like the classic Fantasy Beastmen. I think that's how I'd play them myself, the models seem kinda vanilla marauder to me though having some Ungors, Gors and Bestigors for them would look really great if armed as WYSIWYG.

[Acid_Nine]

This is the warband I have been eager to play since I saw them, so glad to have a discussion board! I'm thinking I am going to get the dark oath models sometime after getting these guys, just to convert a beast tamer, have an extra first fang and two more prey takers. Don't know how many plain runners I want but so far they don't impress me.

[wander]

Well, the plains-runner is the cheap chaff for the Untamed, the Golems get 70pt and 80pt models with their Iron Legionaries, whilst outside the Plains-runner the Untamed are 105+ pts.

It's actually very odd to see GW make offensive models more expensive points-wise than tough ones (this never happens when it's a 1:1 basis! Usually you pay premium for good armour and toughness!), whilst also keeping points relatively balanced going off these two also. I really welcome what they did here so far! 😃

[tom_gore]

First I'll have to try to resist the urge to swap the heart-eaters axe into an electric guitar.

After that, I'll probably go for a one-box solution with as many different looking and -equipped models as possible. I always choose diversity over efficiency when building my models.

 

[Acid_Nine]

the only downside I see is that I need to buy a  guilliman flesh and bone contrast paints for these chads. and, I just realized that the darkoath conversion thing is even easier than I thought! the two preytakers have two different choices of swords and axes, so it would be no trouble at all to replace the weapons on the two handed guys in the easy to build set.

[Grimrock]

Comparing the 2 handed weapon guys to the plains runners, I think a pair of runners comes out on top by a far margin. Since I haven't seen any detriment to putting a lot of bodies on the field, my first thought was actually spamming the runners (5-6 of them) and following up with a pair of cats and the beast handler. I want to include a first fang too, but the points get really tricky and I prefer the cats.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Grimrock

[Bjornas]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

Comparing the 2 handed weapon guys to the plains runners, I think a pair of runners comes out on top by a far margin. Since I haven't seen any detriment to putting a lot of bodies on the field, my first thought was actually spamming the runners (5-6 of them) and following up with a pair of cats and the beast handler. I want to include a first fang too, but the points get really tricky and I prefer the cats.

Interesting, why do you think that? Cause I can't see any reason to take them other than to fill up points  or as objective cappers. Plus I really don't like the models

Edited July 19, 2019 by Bjornas

[Grimrock]

1 minute ago, Bjornas said:

Interesting, why do you think that? Cause I can't see any reason to take them other than to fill up points  or as objective cappers. Plus I really don't like the models

Well they're obviously not great individually, but point for point they're really solid. Compare 2 of them at 110 points to one of the two handed guys at 105. First, they're faster which is a big deal in a game that doesn't seem to have random charge moves. Second, they have 60% more health. It's less valuable because toughness 3, but I think the runners still come out ahead for overall toughness. Third, up to double the number of attacks. Again less valuable, but the Crit damage is almost the same and more dice means more Crits. Quick math against toughness 4 puts the runners ahead or equal on damage. Fourth and finally, it's two bodies instead of one which is huge for objectives. 

It's still tough to get a feel for how the game will actually play without the full rules or the scenarios, but I think the runners have a lot of potential at least. I'm mostly just excited to get my hands on them and start playing haha.

[Bjornas]

9 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Well they're obviously not great individually, but point for point they're really solid. Compare 2 of them at 110 points to one of the two handed guys at 105. First, they're faster which is a big deal in a game that doesn't seem to have random charge moves. Second, they have 60% more health. It's less valuable because toughness 3, but I think the runners still come out ahead for overall toughness. Third, up to double the number of attacks. Again less valuable, but the Crit damage is almost the same and more dice means more Crits. Quick math against toughness 4 puts the runners ahead or equal on damage. Fourth and finally, it's two bodies instead of one which is huge for objectives. 

It's still tough to get a feel for how the game will actually play without the full rules or the scenarios, but I think the runners have a lot of potential at least. I'm mostly just excited to get my hands on them and start playing haha.

Solid points, I must've overlooked the health aspects. With two cats you'll have a damn fast warband.

Btw, is anyone clear on post-game recruitment? As far as I understood we can spend 1 glory point for 50 points, or 3 for 100. Can we keep these in a stash between games? Otherwise it's gonna be difficult to get another cat later on.

 

[AthelLoren]

Where did you all get these points?

[Bjornas]

3 minutes ago, AthelLoren said:

Where did you all get these points?

https://imgur.com/a/TTavRPh

[wander]

Some mathhammer here. This doesn't factor in the Crits, so someone smarter than me can perhaps factor it in! This is from a single attack action also.

105 axe guy vs T4 dude: 3 wounds

105 sword guy vs T4 dude: 2.6 wounds.

2x55 plains-runners vs T4 dude: 1 wound scored each = 2 wounds.

[AHTOXA]

Golems have cheap persons (80 pts) with 5 defense, which will be most tanking and objectives holder, I think.

[PaniuBraniu]

43 minutes ago, wander said:

Some mathhammer here. This doesn't factor in the Crits, so someone smarter than me can perhaps factor it in! This is from a single attack action also.

105 axe guy vs T4 dude: 3 wounds

105 sword guy vs T4 dude: 2.6 wounds.

 

On average they both score 4 wounds vs T4 guy (taking crits in account)

However, this is a special case, in general axe is marginally  better against bigger tanks, whereas sword is better against swarms/chaff. Below average wounds for any opponent's T

Toughness of opponent	1	2	3	4	5	6
Axe - average wounds	7	6	5	4	3	2
Sword - average wounds	8	6.67	5.33	4.00	2.67	2.67

Edited July 19, 2019 by PaniuBraniu

[wander]

1 hour ago, PaniuBraniu said:

On average they both score 4 wounds vs T4 guy (taking crits in account)

However, this is a special case, in general axe is marginally  better against bigger tanks, whereas sword is better against swarms/chaff. Below average wounds for any opponent's T

Toughness of opponent	1	2	3	4	5	6
Axe - average wounds	7	6	5	4	3	2
Sword - average wounds	8	6.67	5.33	4.00	2.67	2.67

Good work!

What formula did you use to come up with that? Or site if you used one.

[CitizenX]

Why are you showing variations from Toughness 1-6?  Warcry only cares if strength is less, equal, or more than tough but doesn't care for the the difference. The way your data is parsed makes it look like you factored in the difference between the stats instead. 

[Acid_Nine]

5 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Well they're obviously not great individually, but point for point they're really solid. Compare 2 of them at 110 points to one of the two handed guys at 105. First, they're faster which is a big deal in a game that doesn't seem to have random charge moves. Second, they have 60% more health. It's less valuable because toughness 3, but I think the runners still come out ahead for overall toughness. Third, up to double the number of attacks. Again less valuable, but the Crit damage is almost the same and more dice means more Crits. Quick math against toughness 4 puts the runners ahead or equal on damage. Fourth and finally, it's two bodies instead of one which is huge for objectives. 

It's still tough to get a feel for how the game will actually play without the full rules or the scenarios, but I think the runners have a lot of potential at least. I'm mostly just excited to get my hands on them and start playing haha.

fair enough, but I will say that abilities may swing it more into the preystalker's favor. Getting extra attacks from doubles on an already high damaging or high strength weapon seems like it would be good for a single guy, more economy and doesn't have to take 2 activations in order to fully swing. You may want to keep the Monster energy drink  Unleash the beast reserved for the kitty, but when the opportunity arises putting more attacks and strengths on a sword with high damage may be very helpful.