The Rumour Thread

[HCMistborn]

I have to say, that Darkoath lore is dope. I really love the duality they are going for with the Dawnbringers and the Darkoath. You can really understand why the Darkoath do what they do, and why they view Sigmar the way they do. It also leaves room for the Darkoath to still have people who just really love being evil in their ranks, but also someone like a darker Conan among them.

[Ejecutor]

27 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

They said that the launch box has 2 spear heads in it. That doesn’t mean that the launch box is nothing but those spear heads. They could easily have a subset of the models in the launch set for each spear head.

 

leviathan did something like that. The space marine combat patrol was something like 2/3 of the space marines in the box, but didn’t include at least one hero and unit. Same for the tyranid one. I think it was the biologis and stern guard missing from marines and the neurotyrant and screamer killer missing from tyranids.

Yeah, but we have more paper and cardboard content and the scenery. So either less minis or higher price.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

7 minutes ago, HCMistborn said:

I have to say, that Darkoath lore is dope. I really love the duality they are going for with the Dawnbringers and the Darkoath. You can really understand why the Darkoath do what they do, and why they view Sigmar the way they do. It also leaves room for the Darkoath to still have people who just really love being evil in their ranks, but also someone like a darker Conan among them.

Really feels like GW actually read the stories Robert E. Howard wrote about Conan and understood them. Conan above all else hates “civilisation”, he views it as hypocritical and even if he interacts with it he’s always pretty jaded by it. In the world of Howard, “civilised” cultures always lack a bit of something the so called “barbarians” have… and they’re imperialist. And that whole “Dawnbringers vs Darkoath” narrative is pure Howard… with his Aquilonians vs the Cimmerians and Picts. With no clear good or bad sides and deeper meaning than a bunch of muscle bound barbarians might imply. 

[Magnusaur]

1 hour ago, Starfyre said:

This part is really interesting. 

All Vanguard boxes are being rebranded as Spearhead sets, and the launch box is made up of two complete Spearhead forces. 

The make-up of the existing Vanguard boxes is almost always 1 hero and 3 units - with the exception of SCE and Kruleboyz which have 2 heroes and 3 units, likely due to the way the sprues were cut for Dominion. 

With that in mind, this means it's likely the launch box will have 2 heroes and 3 units per side, probably:

- SCE: Lord Vigilor on Gryph-Stalker, Foot Hero, 3 Prosecutors, 10 Liberators and 3 Reclusians + 2 support workers (20 models)
- Skaven: Mounted Clawlord, Warlock Engineer, 20 Clanrats, 5 Jezzails, 1 Rat Ogre Warpfire Thrower and 1 Ratling Gun (29 models)

Although my Skaven guess breaks convention a bit with 4 units. Could be only 3 Jezzails too.

The inclusion of terrain is cool and doesn't worry me - what concerns me is the amount of card and paper. A hardback book, game board and card decks for spearhead and the general's handbook. 

I mean, two vanguard sets are £85 each, a hardback book £40-ish, plus all the other bits. The launch box could easily be £200+, maybe they'll go for the £185 price-point like the Horus Heresy set is if they're wanting to keep it >£200. 

It's worth keeping in mind that the Leviathan launch box also technically contained two Combat Patrol forces (Space Marines & Tyranids), but that's not all it included. I'm sure that some of the models in this launch box will be on a later-to-be-individually-sold-for-a-high-price sprue, like the Screamer-Killer. The Rat Ogor, Wolfrat, Lord-Vigilor, and Reclusians seem like good candidates for this.

Anyone care to speculate on the name? Indomitus and Dominion sort of go together. So Leviathan and... Vermindoom?

Edited May 1 by Magnusaur

[HCMistborn]

3 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Really feels like GW actually read the stories Robert E. Howard wrote about Conan and understood them. Conan above all else hates “civilisation”, he views it as hypocritical and even if he interacts with it he’s always pretty jaded by it. In the world of Howard, “civilised” cultures always lack a bit of something the so called “barbarians” have… and they’re imperialist. And that whole “Dawnbringers vs Darkoath” narrative is pure Howard… with his Aquilonians vs the Cimmerians and Picts. With no clear good or bad sides and deeper meaning than a bunch of muscle bound barbarians might imply. 

What do you mean? I only know Conan from the Adventures of Conan TV series. JUST KIDDING, put away the pitchforks. I totally agree, you have made a really thoughtful post about this and it just makes me want to paint up some Darkoath even more. Even the way that the Darkoath hate the worship of a singular god or deity as weak sort of reflects Crom being like "don't ask me for favors or worship me, you weaklings."

[Tonhel]

30 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

That news dampens my potential desire to get the launch box. If they're potentially putting less models in it in favour of the mat and terrain but still charging £150 then I'll probably sit the release out.

But hey it could be different. This is where GW's dripfeed marketing doesn't really help them as I don't think I'm alone in my thoughts about hype for the launch box being lowered by this news so continuing to sit on it and be cagey with the information seems a little bit counterintuitive for them.

I hope we have around the same number of mini's as we had with Dominion and more or less for the same price. I really want the Skaven and SCE mini's. All those extra's as Spearhead rules and etc. are nice, but I don't want a higher price than Dominion or fewer mini's.

[Mutton]

I've started to wonder if the new Rat Ogres will still be in units of 2 or if they've moved to 1 or 3 models per unit.

[Starfyre]

3 minutes ago, Magnusaur said:

It's worth keeping in mind that the Leviathan launch box also technically contained two Combat Patrol forces (Space Marines & Tyranids), but that's not all it included. I'm sure that some of the models in this launch box will be on a later-to-be-individually-sold-for-a-high-price sprue, like the Screamer-Killer. The Rat Ogor, Wolfrat, Lord-Vigilor, and Reclusians seem like good candidates for this.

Anyone care to speculate on the name? Indomitus and Dominion sort of go together. So Leviathan and... Vermindoom?

Oh yeah definitely.

And they could just have unique Spearhead rules for the forces in that box right, since SCE already have a spearhead, and presumably GW will mix in some of the older plastics for a Skaven one.

The launch box will also presumably get cut down into multiple starter sets again, so I'd expect the mounted heroes to be the first things to get removed, like Yndrasta and the mounted Killaboss did. 

3 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I've started to wonder if the new Rat Ogres will still be in units of 2 or if they've moved to 1 or 3 models per unit.

I reckon for the launch box it's 1 and it replaces the warpfire thrower weapons team. The ratling gun had a glow-up and a change of concept, so I think the Rat ogor will be along the same line - more akin to the CoS Ogor sniper dude.

[EonChao]

I could see this box containing nothing but the two Spearheads plus terrain, and I could also see it containing a few extra models. But I don't think they'll price it at more than Leviathan's £150

[CommissarRotke]

37 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Really feels like GW actually read the stories Robert E. Howard wrote about Conan and understood them. Conan above all else hates “civilisation”, he views it as hypocritical and even if he interacts with it he’s always pretty jaded by it. In the world of Howard, “civilised” cultures always lack a bit of something the so called “barbarians” have… and they’re imperialist. And that whole “Dawnbringers vs Darkoath” narrative is pure Howard… with his Aquilonians vs the Cimmerians and Picts. With no clear good or bad sides and deeper meaning than a bunch of muscle bound barbarians might imply. 

I dunno about PURE Howard, since Chaos is absolutely a Great Evil the Darkoath have been forced into serving. There's also some pretty clear hypocrisy* on their part--to mirror the hypocrisy of CoS--which I'm not sure if Howard had? the aesthetic and general attitude of darkoath are definitely straight from Howard's barbarians.

*that hypocrisy extends from calling Sigmarites slavers while enslaving and pillaging, to calling mono-worshippers weak while having their own preferred deities that an entire tribe can be named after... which feels very Warhammer-y

 

Edited May 1 by CommissarRotke

[Ejecutor]

30 minutes ago, Starfyre said:

Oh yeah definitely.

And they could just have unique Spearhead rules for the forces in that box right, since SCE already have a spearhead, and presumably GW will mix in some of the older plastics for a Skaven one.

The launch box will also presumably get cut down into multiple starter sets again, so I'd expect the mounted heroes to be the first things to get removed, like Yndrasta and the mounted Killaboss did. 

I reckon for the launch box it's 1 and it replaces the warpfire thrower weapons team. The ratling gun had a glow-up and a change of concept, so I think the Rat ogor will be along the same line - more akin to the CoS Ogor sniper dude.

I don't think the Skavens Spearhead would have any old plastic model.

[Gitzdee]

5 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

Someone asked the other day about table sizes. This could give us a hint:

Spearhead’s footprint is also dramatically smaller than that of a full game, played on a board measuring 30″ x 22.4″ – that’s a quarter the size of a full battlefield, and the perfect size to play on a kitchen or coffee table. 

Like this very much. Love smaller sized games. Hope Spearhead is going to do well for small sized games in general.

Edited May 1 by Gitzdee

[Sception]

Just so long as they balance it out well and design the scenarios specifically for it.  my 3e small points/small table games have all been pretty disappointing events decided by turn one charges due to insufficient space between deployment zones and too much starting on the table.

regenerating units & stronger stuff not showing up until half way through the game is a promising start at least.  I expect the blood knights and vargheists in the soulblight box will be the same.  Overall I'm hopeful, but not holding my breath.

[Elarin]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

June or July? the Dawnbringer store campaign is supposed to go until end of June i hope. I really want that coin!!!

June 😁 the Dawnbringer store campaign lasts until the 23rd of June (that's the last day people may enter their results) and each store is going to announce if their city survived on the 29th of June 😀 

[Starfyre]

38 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I don't think the Skavens Spearhead would have any old plastic model.

Probably not, but there are cool models in the existing range like the doomwheel. 

Of course, it could consist of new units sold outside of the launch box too. 

[Ejecutor]

27 minutes ago, Elarin said:

June 😁 the Dawnbringer store campaign lasts until the 23rd of June (that's the last day people may enter their results) and each store is going to announce if their city survived on the 29th of June 😀 

Did you hear something about something similar to the campaign Leviathan got with codes inside the boxes?

[EccentricCircle]

2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

I dunno about PURE Howard, since Chaos is absolutely a Great Evil the Darkoath have been forced into serving. There's also some pretty clear hypocrisy* on their part--to mirror the hypocrisy of CoS--which I'm not sure if Howard had? the aesthetic and general attitude of darkoath are definitely straight from Howard's barbarians.

*that hypocrisy extends from calling Sigmarites slavers while enslaving and pillaging, to calling mono-worshippers weak while having their own preferred deities that an entire tribe can be named after... which feels very Warhammer-y

 

Agreed, the Conan stories aee essentially set in the Cthulhu mythos (Howard and Lovecraft were friends). So while terribly "evil" gods exist, they are the uncaring cosmic horror sort. Cults to them exist, but Howard's idolised barbarians have no truck with them. He was all about the idea of some sort of macho primitive ideal, which his heroes are atavistic paragons of. They are pure and uncorrupted in his view because they reject civilisation.

Chaos as alway borrowed some of the look of Frazetta and Brundage's conan covers. However it's ideology owes more to Michael Moorcock. The idea of bartering with mostly uncaring gods of darkness is right out of the Eternal Champion.

[Rachmani]

1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

Agreed, the Conan stories aee essentially set in the Cthulhu mythos (Howard and Lovecraft were friends). So while terribly "evil" gods exist, they are the uncaring cosmic horror sort. Cults to them exist, but Howard's idolised barbarians have no truck with them. He was all about the idea of some sort of macho primitive ideal, which his heroes are atavistic paragons of. They are pure and uncorrupted in his view because they reject civilisation.

Chaos as alway borrowed some of the look of Frazetta and Brundage's conan covers. However it's ideology owes more to Michael Moorcock. The idea of bartering with mostly uncaring gods of darkness is right out of the Eternal Champion.

That's pretty spot on. It's an amalgam, but in my opinion not a bad one. 

[Magnusaur]

I'm curious about the future of Skaven weapon teams, all of which, according to the SG Warhound rumor (but not the modified version later making the rounds), will be updated.

With Warplock Jezzails we are probably looking at a 1:1 update, but what about the rest? We've got Warp Grinders, Doom-flayers, Warpfire Throwers, Poisoned Wind Mortars, and Ratling Guns. 

It's certainly possible that the Rat Ogor becomes the new Warpfire flamer, though I hope not. Similarly, the leaked artillery piece might replace the Ratling gun. I'm personally a sucker for teams of rat lugging comically oversized weapons around, but I can also see how GW would use the opportunity to make the teams less directly comparable. Unless they release some super flexible kit that can build every variety.

[Dragon-knight77]

Still funny that they made an artwork of the Old school Freeguild fighting the horsemen 

Either way the whole Darkoath--> Cimmerian is kind of hilarious when you know that Sigmar is 1/3 a pastiche of Conan the barbarian before he went on to Zeus without the lust

[Luperci]

7 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

Either way the whole Darkoath--> Cimmerian is kind of hilarious when you know that Sigmar is 1/3 a pastiche of Conan the barbarian before he went on to Zeus without the lust

 

I thought that was the whole point though, that many darkoath used to be sigmarites. It's the whole 2 sides of the same coin thing, they had chaos marauders and tribesmen in wfb too though I don't know old world lore that well 

[CommissarRotke]

11 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

Zeus without the lust

he's not nearly enough of an expletive to be Zeus even without that thankfully.. he's definitely closer to Thor than Zeus or even Odin, but i do agree the parallels are hilarious because Sigmar's always been a barbarian who rejected Chaos.

3 minutes ago, Luperci said:

I thought that was the whole point though, that many darkoath used to be sigmarites. It's the whole 2 sides of the same coin thing, they had chaos marauders and tribesmen in wfb too though I don't know old world lore that well 

not sure if they were called Sigmarites in the Age of Myth? seems like a more recent distinction, for Order coming back to the other realms. it's def an interesting pitch that the human conflict is essentially between kin: those who didn't/couldn't make it to Azyr and those who did

[GloomkingWortwazi]

5 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

Did you hear something about something similar to the campaign Leviathan got with codes inside the boxes?

I have also heard this as well.

[Ejecutor]

6 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

Still funny that they made an artwork of the Old school Freeguild fighting the horsemen 

Either way the whole Darkoath--> Cimmerian is kind of hilarious when you know that Sigmar is 1/3 a pastiche of Conan the barbarian before he went on to Zeus without the lust

Simple. Darkoaths were ready before the CoS refresh.

[GrimDork]

The launch box sounds very much like it’s going to be a spearhead launch box, as opposed to AoS 4.0 launch box, if that makes sense. It really seems geared towards getting new players into the game with the everything you need (for spearhead) in the box.

Personally I’m ok with this, I like what they’ve shown so far with spearhead, and as a slow painter and hobby butterfly I like the idea of collecting/painting more small forces. But, I can understand how current AoS players might feel shortchanged if they end up with a load of “starter” materials when they have no desire to play spearhead.

I’m intrigued as to what the boxes, both launch and starter sets, will include.