The Rumour Thread

[Landohammer]

4 minutes ago, Flippy said:

I always struggle to understand this. The chapter identity will be restored, sooner or later, and marines will not dissolve while they wait in the cabinet for a year or two. If someone is so attached to the lore of their army, why sell?   

Its more like a 3+ year wait at this point because the SM codex is already out. 

I don't agree with selling, but I understand why its happening. Here is my anecdote: I liked the fabius bile books. So I made a Creations of Bile army a few years back. My Creations of Bile army formerly had its own chapter tactic, stratagems, warlord traits and items. So when i fielded them on the table, whether good or bad, they reflected the character/playstyle of that army.

And when I actually played vs another Chaos marine player of another legion,  our armies felt extremely distinct. Even if the models were mostly the same. 

Now, we are both just "chaos marines" with identical rules. Yes I can take Fabius in my army, and yes my paint job still makes me look different. But they play identically to other legions, and for all official purposes they are the same as other legions.

TLDR: People like to be snowflakes including myself. If my army loses its flavor and character its no longer interesting. 

[Gitzdee]

2 hours ago, Garrac said:

I think someone has to explain me all this drama towards the realms on which every story is set because Im kinda lost there, lol (the drama, not the realms)

It could give us some insights into where the narrative is moving and what models/armies we could expect and this is the rumour thread.

[Gitzdee]

Double

Edited February 16 by Gitzdee

[Gitzdee]

Went for the tripple.

Edited February 16 by Gitzdee

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Flippy said:

But the Horned Rat is a minor, tribal god of rat-people. Again, I don't like these god-level models at all, but his incarnation would not be out of place alongside the likes of Nagash or Teclis.

Well, if a god got his own daemons, then he‘s too eldritch to appear on his own imo. But well, it‘s down to personal taste anyways. I just like that they are not directly represented. They are too far removed from let‘s say Greek gods to feel portrayable in that manner. 

[Garrac]

1 hour ago, Flippy said:

But the Horned Rat is a minor, tribal god of rat-people.

Wasn't it stated on AoS lore that now the Horned Rat was a proper grand Chaos God, the fifth one?

[ScionOfOssia]

He is. The GHR taking to the field would be like Sigmar taking to the field- Not happening. 

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Flippy said:

But the Horned Rat is a minor, tribal god of rat-people. Again, I don't like these god-level models at all, but his incarnation would not be out of place alongside the likes of Nagash or Teclis.

Once you are a Chaos god, I wouldn't say you are a minor god.

[BarakUrbaz]

Giving the Horned Rat his own model would detract from a major part of AoS Skaven lore, where every Skaven Great Clan sees the Horned Rat differently and interprets him in their own figure, and its confirmed that these different aspects of the Horned Rat are in fact warring against each other. You can't have a single model that represents the Dark Innovator, Great Corruptor, King of Lashes, Writhing Broodsire and Shadow of Murder simultaneously. 

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

Went for the tripple.

Rampage!
 

 

[Ejecutor]

29 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Well, if a god got his own daemons, then he‘s too eldritch to appear on his own imo. But well, it‘s down to personal taste anyways. I just like that they are not directly represented. They are too far removed from let‘s say Greek gods to feel portrayable in that manner. 

Also, if chaos gods take a mini, it wouldn't affect just us, but the posterboys game. And that would be a risky move, imo.

[Twisted Firaun]

24 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Once you are a Chaos god, I wouldn't say you are a minor god.

one word: Hashut.

[Koala]

Yeah, every AoS "God" model is a mortal being TURNED "god". 

They fit the narrative of "gods and heroes" well and you might argue they more are "godlike" than actual gods. 

See also "Nagash loosing his mind by slowly becoming the actual GOD of death".

( The model will soon be known as "Avatar of Nagash " or something alike. Mark my word!) 

 

Chaos Gods are more appropiately represented by greater deamons, which can be created killed/etc without any negative fallout for the narrative. 

Remember: they are the baddies, they are not supposed to be the cener of the narrative but tools that drive it forward. 

[Ejecutor]

39 minutes ago, Twisted Firaun said:

one word: Hashut.

Two words: Bless you.

Is Hashut considered a proper Chaos God? I mean, Rat I know is considered the 5th Chaos god, is Hashut the 6th one?

[BarakUrbaz]

2 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Is Hashut considered a proper Chaos God? I mean, Rat I know is considered the 5th Chaos god, is Hashut the 6th one?

There's this weird thing where sometimes they say "it is argued by scholars whether Hashut is a true deity or an arch-daemon".

I mean considering he can mutate his followers into giant bulls that are on fire that kinda sounds like something only a god could do to me. More blatant divine intervention than most gods in Fantasy. 

Edited February 16 by BarakUrbaz

[LordSolarMach]

2 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Here is my anecdote: I liked the fabius bile books. So I made a Creations of Bile army a few years back. My Creations of Bile army formerly had its own chapter tactic, stratagems, warlord traits and items...

CSM are still an Index, with the only detachment being Slaves to Darkness (ie. the Black Legion one). It's likely that when Codex: CSM comes out in ~3 months they'll get a bunch more (Space Marines have seven, 'Nids six, Ad Mech five, Necrons five, Dark Angels three + seven). One of those detachments will likely be Creations of Bile themed (provided he's not moved to a future Codex: Emperor's Children, which historically he shouldn't be but...).

So you might not be playing your Creations of Bile sub-faction against your opponent's Iron Warriors sub-faction, but you will be playing your "Consortium Strike Force" detachment against your opponent's "Siege Tyrant Battalion" detachment.

[Flippy]

I will not argue with you. But I think that my main points still stand. First, GW does not care that much about some obscure parts of Skaven lore. Second, the GHR is not (as a lore element and as a plot device) treated in the same way as main Chaos Gods - which means that whatever GW does with him should not be extrapolated to the Big 4.

[Garrac]

No Pestilens, no Eshin, a Moulder warcry warband instead, a miniature for the Great Horned Rat, geez, what's next? How can this forum ideas get any worse? Queek coming back? New monkeys? Thanquol but he's now a warlock engineer? Skreech killed forever by a rando stormcast? A skaven machine that doesnt fail? Honourable grey seers that don't stab back? Packmasters gone from existence? New screaming bells but they don't have bells?

Jfc you're making me wish for another underworlds warband instead

Edited February 16 by Garrac

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Twisted Firaun said:

one word: Hashut.

He might not be minor, but perhaps a bit short! 🤭 

 

Do those vertically-challenged Chaos midgets also write into their diary if someone was mean to them? 

[Pizzaprez]

32 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Two words: Bless you.

Is Hashut considered a proper Chaos God? I mean, Rat I know is considered the 5th Chaos god, is Hashut the 6th one?

I'd say yes! Though the rest of the pantheon may feel differently.

GHR "ascended" during the End Times, Hashut was... trapped? inside the old world.... or the Duardin simply found him there. 

Hashut is beyond vague; some of the only stuff about him speculates whether he's even a god or some sort of "ascended demon or prince" 

For us, the players, there are Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch as the "big four." The four are vast and vague conceptually and have been described as being both gods of concepts and emotions, and such things tend to exist on a spectrum. The four play their "great game" across the multiverse, and the four are actually just like crystallizations or focus points of the greater incomprehensible force that is Chaos

The GHR is a chaos god as well, though in-universe that is debated. Archaon spurned his allegiance, and the Four don't really want to acknowledge him. Partially because he was viewed as "inferior" but also he's sort of stepped into the Malal role of "this guy wins when our endless game is over" and to acknowledge him as an equal would only give him more strength. A lot of that lore is new for the GHR: he covets his own power, so his greater demons and demon princes are indistinguishable. He is so close with the rats that they're essentially his lesser demons despite all being mortal; they even reside in a pocket in the Realm of Chaos. The bit of Morghur we got was also pretty similar, albeit everyone melts into one big blob instead.

With that in mind, Hashut will 100% be a 6th chaos god, or 7th if we count Morghur (I count Morghur; I'd like to see eight chaos gods). We know he is a god of hatred, industry, slavery, arcane machinery, and demonbinding. We know he, in AoS, is a god for sure. He is "a bull wreathed in smoke and flame" but that's all we've got from him physically. We know he coerced the Chaos Dwarfs into binding their faction to him, and we know the Chaos Dwarfs have folded many human nations into themselves in a similar way. Unlike the Big Four who just want to play, or the GHR who wants ruin, Hashut's worshippers have been noteworthy in that they're expansionist industrialists: they want to suck up natural resources and rule the lesser species from their cities built on the foundations of the nations they conquer.

He also is fine with binding demons forcefully. What that looks like is vague, but it doesn't seem to be consensual compared to 40k's Forge of Souls. They create their own half-demon frankensteins with the K'daii, but don't generally seem to be about forging pacts like the other mortals (including Skaven). I'd imagine the big four appreciate their usefulness as weaponsmiths, but also are not excited about the prospect of the "demonic god who's whole thing is stuffing demons into machines"  being the ascendant god; who is to say he couldn't, eventually, stuff them into a machine?

This repetitive circle of "ah! this god cant get too strong! what if they're secretly the real chaos god!" has always been a thing, but it's been focused on more in AoS: with Slaanesh being the God of Obsession and also absent the other gods are (rightfully) worried that their obsessions about where he is and what he is up to are empowering him and they also worry that, because each of them are themselves an avatar of hyperfixation (knowledge/violence/mortality) that really Slaanesh is the most powerful chaos god. 

Edited February 16 by Pizzaprez

[Ejecutor]

12 minutes ago, Garrac said:

No Pestilens, no Eshin, a Moulder warcry warband instead, a miniature for the Great Horned Rat, geez, what's next? How can this forum ideas get any worse? Queek coming back? New monkeys? Thanquol but he's now a warlock engineer? Skreech killed forever by a rando stormcast? A skaven machine that doesnt fail? Honourable grey seers that don't stab back? Packmasters gone from existence? New screaming bells but they don't have bells?

Jfc you're making me wish for another underworlds warband instead

Screaming bells that don't scream.

[Preppikoma]

On the topic of models representing actual Chaos gods -- I'm totally in favour of them being produced as mainly collector items, specifically sporting the size of regular-scale Warlord Titans, but still labelled as being in epic scale. They might get Legends or other wacky rules, but no-rule treatment would probably be for the better. Labelling their particular appearance as a specific aspect or one-off occurrence would still leave some space for further interpretation.

Edited February 16 by Preppikoma

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Pizzaprez said:

I'd say yes! Though the rest of the pantheon may feel differently.

GHR "ascended" during the End Times, Hashut was... trapped? inside the old world.... or the Duardin simply found him there. 

Hashut is beyond vague; some of the only stuff about him speculates whether he's even a god or some sort of "ascended demon or prince" 

For us, the players, there are Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch as the "big four." The four are vast and vague conceptually and have been described as being both gods of concepts and emotions, and such things tend to exist on a spectrum. The four play their "great game" across the multiverse, and the four are actually just like crystallizations or focus points of the greater incomprehensible force that is Chaos

The GHR is a chaos god as well, though in-universe that is debated. Archaon spurned his allegiance, and the Four don't really want to acknowledge him. Partially because he was viewed as "inferior" but also he's sort of stepped into the Malal role of "this guy wins when our endless game is over" and to acknowledge him as an equal would only give him more strength. A lot of that lore is new for the GHR: he covets his own power, so his greater demons and demon princes are indistinguishable. He is so close with the rats that they're essentially his lesser demons despite all being mortal; they even reside in a pocket in the Realm of Chaos. The bit of Morghur we got was also pretty similar, albeit everyone melts into one big blob instead.

With that in mind, Hashut will 100% be a 6th chaos god, or 7th if we count Morghur (I count Morghur; I'd like to see eight chaos gods). We know he is a god of hatred, industry, slavery, arcane machinery, and demonbinding. We know he, in AoS, is a god for sure. He is "a bull wreathed in smoke and flame" but that's all we've got from him physically. We know he coerced the Chaos Dwarfs into binding their faction to him, and we know the Chaos Dwarfs have folded many human nations into themselves in a similar way. Unlike the Big Four who just want to play, or the GHR who wants ruin, Hashut's worshippers have been noteworthy in that they're expansionist industrialists: they want to suck up natural resources and rule the lesser species from their cities built on the foundations of the nations they conquer.

He also is fine with binding demons forcefully. What that looks like is vague, but it doesn't seem to be consensual compared to 40k's Forge of Souls. They create their own half-demon frankensteins with the K'daii, but don't generally seem to be about forging pacts like the other mortals (including Skaven). I'd imagine the big four appreciate their usefulness as weaponsmiths, but also are not excited about the prospect of the "demonic god who's whole thing is stuffing demons into machines"  being the ascendant god; who is to say he couldn't, eventually, stuff them into a machine?

This repetitive circle of "ah! this god cant get too strong! what if they're secretly the real chaos god!" has always been a thing, but it's been focused on more in AoS: with Slaanesh being the God of Obsession and also absent the other gods are (rightfully) worried that their obsessions about where he is and what he is up to are empowering him and they also worry that, because each of them are themselves an avatar of hyperfixation (knowledge/violence/mortality) that really Slaanesh is the most powerful chaos god. 

This TEDTalk just got me so hyped for Chaos Duardin mate!!

[EntMan]

1 hour ago, Pizzaprez said:

I'd say yes! Though the rest of the pantheon may feel differently.

GHR "ascended" during the End Times, Hashut was... trapped? inside the old world.... or the Duardin simply found him there. 

Hashut is beyond vague; some of the only stuff about him speculates whether he's even a god or some sort of "ascended demon or prince" 

For us, the players, there are Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch as the "big four." The four are vast and vague conceptually and have been described as being both gods of concepts and emotions, and such things tend to exist on a spectrum. The four play their "great game" across the multiverse, and the four are actually just like crystallizations or focus points of the greater incomprehensible force that is Chaos

The GHR is a chaos god as well, though in-universe that is debated. Archaon spurned his allegiance, and the Four don't really want to acknowledge him. Partially because he was viewed as "inferior" but also he's sort of stepped into the Malal role of "this guy wins when our endless game is over" and to acknowledge him as an equal would only give him more strength. A lot of that lore is new for the GHR: he covets his own power, so his greater demons and demon princes are indistinguishable. He is so close with the rats that they're essentially his lesser demons despite all being mortal; they even reside in a pocket in the Realm of Chaos. The bit of Morghur we got was also pretty similar, albeit everyone melts into one big blob instead.

With that in mind, Hashut will 100% be a 6th chaos god, or 7th if we count Morghur (I count Morghur; I'd like to see eight chaos gods). We know he is a god of hatred, industry, slavery, arcane machinery, and demonbinding. We know he, in AoS, is a god for sure. He is "a bull wreathed in smoke and flame" but that's all we've got from him physically. We know he coerced the Chaos Dwarfs into binding their faction to him, and we know the Chaos Dwarfs have folded many human nations into themselves in a similar way. Unlike the Big Four who just want to play, or the GHR who wants ruin, Hashut's worshippers have been noteworthy in that they're expansionist industrialists: they want to suck up natural resources and rule the lesser species from their cities built on the foundations of the nations they conquer.

He also is fine with binding demons forcefully. What that looks like is vague, but it doesn't seem to be consensual compared to 40k's Forge of Souls. They create their own half-demon frankensteins with the K'daii, but don't generally seem to be about forging pacts like the other mortals (including Skaven). I'd imagine the big four appreciate their usefulness as weaponsmiths, but also are not excited about the prospect of the "demonic god who's whole thing is stuffing demons into machines"  being the ascendant god; who is to say he couldn't, eventually, stuff them into a machine?

This repetitive circle of "ah! this god cant get too strong! what if they're secretly the real chaos god!" has always been a thing, but it's been focused on more in AoS: with Slaanesh being the God of Obsession and also absent the other gods are (rightfully) worried that their obsessions about where he is and what he is up to are empowering him and they also worry that, because each of them are themselves an avatar of hyperfixation (knowledge/violence/mortality) that really Slaanesh is the most powerful chaos god. 

Yeah, but what's chaotic about Hashut? This description sounds more Lawful Evil to me. They seem to seek to bring the realms under order. Evil order.

The most actually chaotic factions in the game I think are actually the destruction factions (by their desire) and the Skaven (maybe unintentionally by thier nature)

[DD-Lord]

The day GeeDubs were to make models representing the Chaos Gods, that would also be the day the shark would truly jump. 

Just like the others here said, and I myself have also said this before, the Chaos Gods (or gods in general) work better when they are higher beings far from the "standing" of the mortals. 

Also, on a related note, I hope the lore soon starts introducing more completely original gods because currently we are in a legit short supply of them; we mostly just have formerly-mortals-now-accented-to-Gods. And renamed old gods, come on, writers, make your imagination work.