Ejecutor Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Garrac said: I'm thinking about the biggest problem GW is having rn. Tbf to them, what has happened is that the technology for making miniatures has improved a lot and, most importantly, very quick. Yes, GW has some the best equipdments and uncredited designers in the world... but there's a problem with that. That you're gonna do the most modern miniatures, very new, and everyone likes them... but it will make everything feel older and dated. And im not only refering my "beloved" ninja monkeys: we're talking about miniatures like the drukhari that were updated not so long ago and already feel weird when comparing them to the toppest new models. but you can't update it all at the same time, and less when your company has a thing (space marines) that sell so well compared to the rest. So, technology is improving at such a fast pace that we may start having armies of 2018 that will feel dated compared to the newest stormcasts of 2030. Alltho, this is a "problem" that it's very hard to solve. But yeah, I think one of Gw's biggest problems rn is that they're their own competence to some extense. (I'm just happy with an army having a unique and uniformal aesthetic, like eldars still having to use warp spiders from 1994 but them not feeling like belonging to another race) To be fair between 2018 and 2030 there's a huge gap. I think 12 years are noticeable in any mini during any period of GW's lifespan. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 New Black Library eShort subscription week coming! Save the Date – The Black Library Celebration is Nearly Here - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyra Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 25 minutes ago, Hollow said: A personal hot take. I hate "Meta", balance, Math-hammer and those who are obsessed with comparing theoretical matchups of specific units in isolation. I can't stand the prevalance of online whinging and moaning that comes with people exlaiming that things are broken and need nerfed or boosted after rules have been avalible for a matter of days. Worse more is the fact that those who scream loudest are then just parroted and their takes are taken as the prevailing conventional wisdom. "Woodelf archer spam is broken" when it is something I bet my bottom dollor on hardly anyone having actually played and having practical real-world experience of. (Not having a go at anyone specific, was just an example) The rush to have a hot take, breakdown or to look through rules for a couple of hours and proclaim the the sky is falling and that certian things are over/underpowered. Bit of a rant, and unfortunatley it isn't going anywhere. I just really dislike it. Bluergh. well. im not saying that example be true or false. but speaking about the comment. im the opossite. those guys who dont know maths and when see a scroll only says things like it seems good because it do lot of atacks ! or it is bad because despite doing 1000 atacks they hit at 6s so it is bad etc.... or those guys who need to play something 100 times before knowing if something is good or bad. really make me laugh and infuriates me when try to argue again set in stone numbers. when u Know maths, and stadistic, and know the rules on the game, ur book, and whole books general rule, u can know with really high accuracy if something is good/bad, OP or UP after watching the numbers, dont need to play even 1 game to prove it. this remind me to my analissis on my IDK and seraphon armyes on first glimpse of book... every non math guys claiming i didnt know anything about game, need to play 10000 games in order to know it, wait 10 years before to see it etc.... turns out 1 year after them i was 100% right on absolutly everything said, and numbers show that, GW cutted points on the worst unit i said, etc etc not saying everyone who claims something is broken ( for good or for bad) have rigth, only saying some guys knows if something is good/bad after reading a book without nedding months and games. this is a stadistic game, u know in average what will happen always, only need to know oponent rules too, and general rules and how they interact with ur rules, and will know for sure how good is a scroll and how many points it should cost comparing it to similar units etc. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lele Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 47 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Ushoran and Sekhar The Fang of Nulahmia are the the ones from Book IV. For book V we have Morai Heg and Callis & Toll. The ones from the preview. Srr, mistalke, edit again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, alyra said: dont need to play even 1 game to prove it. Yeah... we are oil and water. 😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyra Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 8 minutes ago, Hollow said: Yeah... we are oil and water. 😅 yup. i love elves and clean order faction. so i bet u like chaos and daemons factions? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Lets goooo! Age of Sigmar Arena of Death. Warhammer Age of Sigmar Arena of Death – Gods, Daemons, and More Enter the Battle Report Challenge - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 19 minutes ago, alyra said: yup. i love elves and clean order faction. so i bet u like chaos and daemons factions? 2 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Garrac said: I'm thinking about the biggest problem GW is having rn. Tbf to them, what has happened is that the technology for making miniatures has improved a lot and, most importantly, very quick. Yes, GW has some the best equipments and uncredited designers in the world... but there's a problem with that. That you're gonna do the most modern miniatures, very new, and everyone likes them... but it will make everything feel older and dated. And im not only refering my "beloved" ninja monkeys: we're talking about miniatures like the drukhari that were updated not so long ago and already feel weird when compared them to the toppest new models. but you can't update it all at the same time, and less when your company has a thing (space marines) that sell so well compared to the rest. So, technology is improving at such a fast pace that we may start having armies of 2018 that will feel dated compared to the newest stormcasts of 2030. I think what you are saying is absolutely true for End Times and AoS 1 stuff (in general, some models have of course aged better than others). Models that are being released now are noticably better than models from that time. I think, thought, that is because GW sculptors have, in general, become better at digital miniature sculpting and I don't know if the trend will continue. I would definitely guess that we will not see a similar jump in quality from now to 2035 as we saw from ~2015 to now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Lets goooo! Age of Sigmar Arena of Death. Warhammer Age of Sigmar Arena of Death – Gods, Daemons, and More Enter the Battle Report Challenge - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) So, Gotrek is just going to end up gotwrecking everyone, right? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarff Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Weird that they claim Gotrek's current target is Nagash. Last time that was the case was in Ghoulslayer, which released 5 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Hollow said: A personal hot take. I hate "Meta", balance, Math-hammer and those who are obsessed with comparing theoretical matchups of specific units in isolation. I can't stand the prevalance of online whinging and moaning that comes with people exlaiming that things are broken and need nerfed or boosted after rules have been avalible for a matter of days. Worse more is the fact that those who scream loudest are then just parroted and their takes are taken as the prevailing conventional wisdom. "Woodelf archer spam is broken" when it is something I bet my bottom dollor on hardly anyone having actually played and having practical real-world experience of. (Not having a go at anyone specific, was just an example) The rush to have a hot take, breakdown or to look through rules for a couple of hours and proclaim the the sky is falling and that certian things are over/underpowered. Bit of a rant, and unfortunatley it isn't going anywhere. I just really dislike it. Bluergh. I think a couple weeks back on the painting phase podcast, Peachy talked about the reason for the competitive focus from the rules writing team was because most of the writers are competitive players. Jervis Johnson was the driving force behind narrative rules and he hasn't been in the team for a while now iirc. It's created a sort of feedback loop with lots of community members shifting to a similar mindset. Also I never said wood elf archer spam is broken, I said that's what I've heard from others, I have no clue about ToW rules myself 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 44 minutes ago, alyra said: yup. i love elves and clean order faction. so i bet u like chaos and daemons factions? Every good orruk knows that not showerin' makes you dead killier, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 24 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: I think what you are saying is absolutely true for End Times and AoS 1 stuff (in general, some models have of course aged better than others). Models that are being released now are noticably better than models from that time. I think, thought, that is because GW sculptors have, in general, become better at digital miniature sculpting and I don't know if the trend will continue. I would definitely guess that we will not see a similar jump in quality from now to 2035 as we saw from ~2015 to now. At a certain point they won't be able to increase the level of detail because it just will be impossible to paint for 99% of people, that's another thing Peachy has mentioned on the painting phase too I believe 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Luperci said: At a certain point they won't be able to increase the level of detail because it just will be impossible to paint for 99% of people, that's another thing Peachy has mentioned on the painting phase too I believe Indeed. There are many people annoyed with the amount of details we currently have in the minis. That's another point why many people are enjoying TOW. Edited January 24 by Ejecutor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Luperci said: At a certain point they won't be able to increase the level of detail because it just will be impossible to paint for 99% of people, that's another thing Peachy has mentioned on the painting phase too I believe I don't know how others see it, but I find that since compared to the earlier AoS models, newer ones are a lot more restrained when it comes to detail. Or rather, I should say, ornamentation and texture. Detail, as in the resolution of the miniature and crispness of its shapes, has stayed more or less the same. Anyway, you can compare units like the Lord Castellant to any new Stormcast hero to see what I mean: Spoiler I think GW sculptors understand that adding more random skulls and disparate elements all over the model is not the way of the future, even though I am sure that kind of stuff was really exciting when they were first doing it to Archaon during the End Times. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Previous Page Next Page Previous Page Next Page Indeed. There are many people annoyed with the amount of details we currently have in the minis. That's another point why many people are enjoying TOW. Previous Page Next Page Previous Page Next Page In ToW u have to paint more minis. I think it actually not that bad overall. I think more detail makes the minis look more impressive by just painting a few parts a different colour compared to lets say an average greenskin from whfb thats mainly green with some browns. Edited January 24 by Gitzdee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 15 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: I don't know how others see it, but I find that since compared to the earlier AoS models, newer ones are a lot more restrained when it comes to detail. Or rather, I should say, ornamentation and texture. Detail, as in the resolution of the miniature and crispness of its shapes, has stayed more or less the same. Anyway, you can compare units like the Lord Castellant to any new Stormcast hero to see what I mean: Hide contents I think GW sculptors understand that adding more random skulls and disparate elements all over the model is not the way of the future, even though I am sure that kind of stuff was really exciting when they were first doing it to Archaon during the End Times. Yeah, this is a good example of something that GW did a lot of about 10 years ago but has largely stopped. Detail isn't the problem. It's the addition of elements that break the sillouete of the model. The more modern models have a much better sense of balance with finer detail than before. This is an area where a lot of 3d printed minis get it wrong. There's a lot of detail for details sake rather than in service of the overall aesthetic of the model. As for things getting impossible to paint, I've been painting for more than 30 years and it's only gotten easier as time has gone by. Models are easier to assemble and convert. Primers have improved. The recent addition of contrast and speed paint has made painting highly detailed models easier than it ever used to be. In fact contrast likes details better than flat surfaces. To get back to the rumours, I do wonder where GW go from here. There's has been a marked improvement in the quality of the sculpts over the last 40 years mostly due to improvements in the tech that makes plastic minis but I'm not sure what they do next. There's room for improvement with Archaon but how do they make a new Morathi that's actually better and not just different? What does a mark XI marine even look like? Within the next 5 or 6 years, they will have updated every faction they want to keep. New and improved sculpts have been their business model for so long. What do they do when they can't improve anymore? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Chikout said: Yeah, this is a good example of something that GW did a lot of about 10 years ago but has largely stopped. Detail isn't the problem. It's the addition of elements that break the sillouete of the model. The more modern models have a much better sense of balance with finer detail than before. This is an area where a lot of 3d printed minis get it wrong. There's a lot of detail for details sake rather than in service of the overall aesthetic of the model. As for things getting impossible to paint, I've been painting for more than 30 years and it's only gotten easier as time has gone by. Models are easier to assemble and convert. Primers have improved. The recent addition of contrast and speed paint has made painting highly detailed models easier than it ever used to be. In fact contrast likes details better than flat surfaces. To get back to the rumours, I do wonder where GW go from here. There's has been a marked improvement in the quality of the sculpts over the last 40 years mostly due to improvements in the tech that makes plastic minis but I'm not sure what they do next. There's room for improvement with Archaon but how do they make a new Morathi that's actually better and not just different? What does a mark XI marine even look like? Within the next 5 or 6 years, they will have updated every faction they want to keep. New and improved sculpts have been their business model for so long. What do they do when they can't improve anymore? When they have updated all the AoS sculpts in 5 or 6 years? Start updating all the TOW sculpts. 😉 Just joking, as it is a really good question. I complety agree. For Archaon there is much room for an update. They can do better, but Morathi is almost perfect. They have do something else with her. But what? because even if you have updated all the AoS sculpts and introduced a couple more armies. You can't keep adding factions to the game, as all the factions take production slots, so you can't keep expanding, and there is indeed a limit how good you can make a miniature. I.e all the updated StD, the warriors and knights are perfect. I can't see how with the same miniature size they can make a better StD warrior than the ones we have now. Edited January 24 by Tonhel 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 minutes ago, Tonhel said: When they have updated all the AoS sculpts in 5 or 6 years? Start updating all the TOW sculpts. 😉 Just joking, as it is a really good question. I complety agree. For Archaon there is much room for an update. They can do better, but Morathi is almost perfect. They have do something else with her. But what? because even if you have updated all the AoS sculpts and introduced a couple more armies. You can't keep adding factions to the game, as all the factions take production slots, so you can't keep expanding, and there is indeed a limit how good you can make a miniature. I.e all the updated StD, the warriors and knights are perfect. I can't see how with the same miniature size they can make a better StD warrior than the ones we have now. From an AoS point of view, there is probably room for enough resculpts (Skaven, Beasts, Ogors, early AoS stuff), second waves (Fyreslayers, OBR, Deepkin, Kharadron, Cities of Sigmar, Tyrion Lumineth) and new armies (AoS Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarves, Grungni Dwarves, Frazzlegits, Silent People) to last us at least a few more editions. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: From an AoS point of view, there is probably room for enough resculpts (Skaven, Beasts, Ogors, early AoS stuff), second waves (Fyreslayers, OBR, Deepkin, Kharadron, Cities of Sigmar, Tyrion Lumineth) and new armies (AoS Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarves, Grungni Dwarves, Frazzlegits, Silent People) to last us at least a few more editions. That seems imo very doable in 6 years. What do you imagine how Grungi dwarves will look like? I assume they will have to look different than the Dwarfs from Dwarfen Mountain Holds from TOW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 hours ago, Hollow said: I love that artwork but I hope that lady is okay lol. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 hours ago, Hollow said: A personal hot take. I hate "Meta", balance, Math-hammer and those who are obsessed with comparing theoretical matchups of specific units in isolation. I can't stand the prevalance of online whinging and moaning that comes with people exlaiming that things are broken and need nerfed or boosted after rules have been avalible for a matter of days. Worse more is the fact that those who scream loudest are then just parroted and their takes are taken as the prevailing conventional wisdom. "Woodelf archer spam is broken" when it is something I bet my bottom dollor on hardly anyone having actually played and having practical real-world experience of. (Not having a go at anyone specific, was just an example) The rush to have a hot take, breakdown or to look through rules for a couple of hours and proclaim the the sky is falling and that certian things are over/underpowered. Bit of a rant, and unfortunatley it isn't going anywhere. I just really dislike it. Bluergh. balance is important, but the thing about mathhammering similar units in isolation is that it gives you a point of comparison to illustrate your point. Its providing context. Usually the environment (army) can alleviate or exacerbate the issue. Like the new ardboyz being compared to chaos warriors, similar statlines, but the chaos warriors are 40 points cheaper. Sure you can buff up the ardboyz damage pretty effectively, but Ironjawz have a known issue with their infantry not getting played in the first place, and chaos warriors are a core unit that the StD book relies on in certain builds. Sure lots of people get caught up in the weeds, but its a place to start the conversation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 56 minutes ago, Chikout said: Within the next 5 or 6 years, they will have updated every faction they want to keep. New and improved sculpts have been their business model for so long. What do they do when they can't improve anymore? This is a great question and one I ruminate over pretty frequently. As/when GW updates or releases a new model,unit or faction these days, they are generally of a quality that will carry them for many more years to come. I have come to the conclusion however, that there is so much potential design space within the Warhammer settings that I really don't see the. hitting creative blocks any time soon. With AoS you still have the vast majorty of factions with what I consider to be pretty significant gaps within their ranges. You have several that could go through complete redesigns/refeshes, several that could be expanded significantly and that's before you even consider the pleothera of potential new factions could be explored. There could also be new games that take place in the setting of The Mortal Realms. New Skirmish, New scales etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 11 minutes ago, The Red King said: I love that artwork but I hope that lady is okay lol. Narrator: "She was not okay." 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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