The Rumour Thread

[Wraith]

A good sign daemon minis needs an updated replacement is whether I buy them or not. Going by this rule, the Skullmaster needs a new sculpt. Could Scarbrand get a better model? I use Raging Hero’s mantis warriors in place of Daemonettes. They really needs better models, including Seekers and chariots.

[Ejecutor]

I was checking Warhammer TV year 2 miniatures and realised that year 3 starts in less than a month! (year 2 ends on 24/08/2023). As it is quite close to the release of CoS, do you think we would have an exclusive CoS miniature from WH+? Maybe is the way to get Callis & Toll?

[KingBrodd]

25 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I was checking Warhammer TV year 2 miniatures and realised that year 3 starts in less than a month! (year 2 ends on 24/08/2023). As it is quite close to the release of CoS, do you think we would have an exclusive CoS miniature from WH+? Maybe is the way to get Callis & Toll?

Id say a COS miniature is likely but it wont be Callis or Toll. We've had Destruction and Chaos so its either Order or Death. Maybe that was the most recent rumour engine? A Warhammer+ unique Ghoul?

[Beliman]

18 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

Personally I hope we stop with new Factions for a few Editions after Chaos Duardin and Malerion.

There are so many ranges that need refreshes; Ogors, Beasts, Flesh Eaters and Skaven

Wave 2's; Fyreslayers, Idoneth, Ossiarch, Kharadron, Lumineth*, Ironjawz and even Daughters.

 

Exactly that.

Btw, one thing doesn't exclude the other. We can have a 2d wave of Kharadrons Overlords as a new chartered company based around Big Game Hunters; with 1-2 heroes, 1-2 units, and maybe a new centerpiece; and that's practically another army.

Just don't go back, if something is already developed like Dwarf Engineers-Kharadron Overlords or Dwarf Slayers-Fyreslayers, just keep rolling.

We still have armies that are practically 3-in-1 like Drukhary witchcults, Kabalites and Covens (Lumineth temples, daemon-mortal monoGod armies, Beastclaws/FootOgors, follow the same pattern), and we had alternative lists like middenheim and Karak Kadrin that with only a few new units, they felt like a new army (Lethis could be in the same pack too).

With time, GW can do whatever they want. We saw a new beastmen army coming from old Chaos, Tomb Kings and Sylvania from generics Undeads. Even Chaos Space Marines were split a few years ago between a few other mono-god armies.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Beliman

[Vagard]

9 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

The Khorne ones were updated with the slaanesh ones, when they did wrath & rapture in 2019. I think the bloodletters & daemonettes were late fantasy or early aos.

The horrors are newer, not sure when they came out, but the screamers and flamers are plastic versions of the 2000's ones.

Yes when i talked about demons i was thinking demonettes (monted and on foot) and bloodletters for khorne and slaanesh. Nurgle is ok and tzeentch is about screamers and flamers which are indeed pretty old

Edited July 27, 2023 by Vagard

[Gitzdee]

Cause the weather is so horrible today i made a fire themed prediction. Fire incarnate, Fyreslayers unit, small wave of Firebellies and lets throw in some Flamers too.

Ok im a little serious about this list too. What if Ogres are getting a firebellies subfaction? Is it really out of that much of a stretch? We know Ogres are coming someday and we havent had any clue what it could be. What if GW pulls a Kruleboyz move on us again and go with a completely new subfaction but for Ogors.

[Vagard]

Honestly I will not be angry at all against GW if they don't drop a new army until V4. If they give new units and a refresh of the older ones for ogors and BoC, I will be very happy. 

It would be a great way to finish v3 to refresh the range of all armies with a roster composed mainly of WHFB minis. 

[Nazarjo]

With the discussion of range refreshes, I think it's worth asking what parts of the ranges actually need refreshes. People say a lot of "Hopefully everything will be updated for AoS" but a lot of the stuff from the later years of WHFB still holds up. Big models like Skaven Stormfiends or Seraphon Bastiladon don't make sense to update, since they still work well. You could also argue that models over 15-20 years old should be updated, but the Seraphon Skinks are 20 years old and didn't get a new box, so I think it's more contextual. For each range that often gets brought up - 

Flesh Eater Courts - I wouldn't even call this a range refresh as much as actually turning FEC into a real army. The fact that it's lasted three editions off of three boxes (Crypt Ghouls, Big Crypt Ghouls and Terrorgheist) what they need most is just New Models. Bonesplittaz is in a similar position, where the existing boxes are fine but what they really need is more boxes. 

Skaven - The Skaven range is SO big, so really it falls into three different parts. 1 is the easiest, and that's to update all the metal kits, that's what everyone agrees in. But for 2 and 3, you have the question of the MANY sub-factions for Skaven. Clan rats and Stormvermin are fine models, as are all the later big models like Stormfiends and the Screaming Bell. What Skaven is desperate for is a new core unit box and a hero for Eshin, Moulder, Pestilens AND Skryre, but that's close to four whole new armies. In magical wish land, I'd love to see Skaven expanded to Grand Order Vermins, since I'd wager that would have as much interest as death and would allow each clan to really get it's own identity. But for the most part Skaven will have to go through several updates before it's even close to the original AoS armies in terms of model quality. 

Beasts of Chaos - Aside from their lack of updates, I'm not sure why people want a range refresh for BoC. Yes, it'd be nice for all the resin and metal kits to be updated, same as the other armies, but BoC had a big update late in WHFB, so I don't see why there would be much of a need to update any of the core troops outside of just wanting fancier models. The major updates I'd say BoC needs is a new paint job and a fancy centerpiece to look less like a WHFB army. 

Ogor Mawtribes - I truly don't understand why people clamour for a new Mawtribes update, since they're in a similar position as BoC in getting a late WHFB update so they've got new models, but they also have the bonus of being popular enough to have lots of rep in the AoS lore to pull from. The only big ask I could see would be to update the core Glutton box, because the design is so static now compared to standard AoS troops. It's 2023, we deserve better than the lines of people slowly walking forward. It'd also be nice for them to have a centerpiece and some plastic heroes, but they're a solid line that I don't think requires the update as much as the other three listed. 

[HorticulusTGA]

Speaking of updates, Chaos Daemons are generally spoiled release-wise, but the range itself is varyingly old (mostly Lesser Daemons) : 

Just to recap (plastic models still sold) :

• 2008 : Daemonettes and Bloodletters
• 2010 : Bloodcrushers, Mounted Daemonettes, Horrors of Tzeentch
• 2012 : Plaguebearers, Nurglings, Seeker Chariot/Hellflayer, Tzeentch Screamers, Flamers of Tzeentch
• 2013 : Plague Drones, Blood Throne/Skull Cannon, Burning Chariot/Herald of Tzeentch on Chariot, Herald of Nurgle on foot. 
• 2015 : Bloodthirster and later Skarbrand
• 2016 and beyond : modern AOS plastic kits for every Chaos Gods

Also, Nurgle-related, next year the wonderful Putrid Blightkings kit will be 10 years old. Ouch...

Edited July 27, 2023 by HorticulusTGA

[Ejecutor]

52 minutes ago, Nazarjo said:

With the discussion of range refreshes, I think it's worth asking what parts of the ranges actually need refreshes. People say a lot of "Hopefully everything will be updated for AoS" but a lot of the stuff from the later years of WHFB still holds up. Big models like Skaven Stormfiends or Seraphon Bastiladon don't make sense to update, since they still work well. You could also argue that models over 15-20 years old should be updated, but the Seraphon Skinks are 20 years old and didn't get a new box, so I think it's more contextual. For each range that often gets brought up - 

Flesh Eater Courts - I wouldn't even call this a range refresh as much as actually turning FEC into a real army. The fact that it's lasted three editions off of three boxes (Crypt Ghouls, Big Crypt Ghouls and Terrorgheist) what they need most is just New Models. Bonesplittaz is in a similar position, where the existing boxes are fine but what they really need is more boxes. 

Skaven - The Skaven range is SO big, so really it falls into three different parts. 1 is the easiest, and that's to update all the metal kits, that's what everyone agrees in. But for 2 and 3, you have the question of the MANY sub-factions for Skaven. Clan rats and Stormvermin are fine models, as are all the later big models like Stormfiends and the Screaming Bell. What Skaven is desperate for is a new core unit box and a hero for Eshin, Moulder, Pestilens AND Skryre, but that's close to four whole new armies. In magical wish land, I'd love to see Skaven expanded to Grand Order Vermins, since I'd wager that would have as much interest as death and would allow each clan to really get it's own identity. But for the most part Skaven will have to go through several updates before it's even close to the original AoS armies in terms of model quality. 

Beasts of Chaos - Aside from their lack of updates, I'm not sure why people want a range refresh for BoC. Yes, it'd be nice for all the resin and metal kits to be updated, same as the other armies, but BoC had a big update late in WHFB, so I don't see why there would be much of a need to update any of the core troops outside of just wanting fancier models. The major updates I'd say BoC needs is a new paint job and a fancy centerpiece to look less like a WHFB army. 

Ogor Mawtribes - I truly don't understand why people clamour for a new Mawtribes update, since they're in a similar position as BoC in getting a late WHFB update so they've got new models, but they also have the bonus of being popular enough to have lots of rep in the AoS lore to pull from. The only big ask I could see would be to update the core Glutton box, because the design is so static now compared to standard AoS troops. It's 2023, we deserve better than the lines of people slowly walking forward. It'd also be nice for them to have a centerpiece and some plastic heroes, but they're a solid line that I don't think requires the update as much as the other three listed. 

A pretty solid post. In your opinion, what would be refreshed then?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 hours ago, Nazarjo said:

Beasts of Chaos - Aside from their lack of updates, I'm not sure why people want a range refresh for BoC. Yes, it'd be nice for all the resin and metal kits to be updated, same as the other armies, but BoC had a big update late in WHFB, so I don't see why there would be much of a need to update any of the core troops outside of just wanting fancier models. The major updates I'd say BoC needs is a new paint job and a fancy centerpiece to look less like a WHFB army. 

Ogor Mawtribes - I truly don't understand why people clamour for a new Mawtribes update, since they're in a similar position as BoC in getting a late WHFB update so they've got new models, but they also have the bonus of being popular enough to have lots of rep in the AoS lore to pull from.

Looking through the old catalogues, it seems like the basic BoC troops are from 2010 and the basic Ogor troops are from 2005/06. Not even mentioning all the awful finecast models in those armies, that is a good enough of a reason to update these factions.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Chikout]

Updates I want/ expect. 

BoC. The core kits hold pretty well. The bestigors suffer from being forced to rank up. All Warhammer fantasy great weapon units are pretty monopose and these are no exception. I'd love to see an update for them but I don't expect it. If BoC get one thing it should be a new plastic Shaggoth. It's perfectly suited to being the centerpiece of the range. I've hated the minotaurs and Doombull since they came out. Mierce have done a much better version that I'm not sure GW can top. If I was GW I'd be tempted allow beasts to take all the varieties of Ogroid and dump the minotaurs in the bin. Plastic versions of the resin monsters would be nice. I'd also like to see Khorngors and Pestigors to complete the set. 

Mawtribes-

For this range I expect anything currently in plastic to stay. The gluttons are a bit monopose but they hold up pretty well. I'd like to see everything in resin updated and a couple of completely new things for each half of the range. 

Skaven. 

New Eshin, new Skyre Acolytes, new pestilens infantry, new Rat Ogres and a bunch of completely new insanities would be nice. I expect all the other plastics to stay. 

FeC. They just need a bunch of new stuff to fill out the range and a plastic vargulf. I'm not a fan of the ghouls but having seen the warcry warband, I don't expect them to change. I think the zombie dragon kit holds up pretty well but they could do an even better one with modern techniques. That said, I don't expect it to change. 

 

[Gareth 🍄]

The basic plastic Ogor troops first appeared in late 2004 in an Ogre Kingdoms army set - Gnoblars, Yhetees and the Hunter were in that set too. Definitely due a refresh IMO, they'll be 20 next year!

I've assembled a hell of a lot of those 2 body-pose Ogors over the years, the mould lines are pretty awful compared to more modern releases and I've noticed some odd lines/cracks in the models in places where there shouldn't be any.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Gareth 🍄

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Nazarjo said:

With the discussion of range refreshes, I think it's worth asking what parts of the ranges actually need refreshes. People say a lot of "Hopefully everything will be updated for AoS" but a lot of the stuff from the later years of WHFB still holds up. Big models like Skaven Stormfiends or Seraphon Bastiladon don't make sense to update, since they still work well. You could also argue that models over 15-20 years old should be updated, but the Seraphon Skinks are 20 years old and didn't get a new box, so I think it's more contextual. For each range that often gets brought up - 

Flesh Eater Courts - I wouldn't even call this a range refresh as much as actually turning FEC into a real army. The fact that it's lasted three editions off of three boxes (Crypt Ghouls, Big Crypt Ghouls and Terrorgheist) what they need most is just New Models. Bonesplittaz is in a similar position, where the existing boxes are fine but what they really need is more boxes. 

Skaven - The Skaven range is SO big, so really it falls into three different parts. 1 is the easiest, and that's to update all the metal kits, that's what everyone agrees in. But for 2 and 3, you have the question of the MANY sub-factions for Skaven. Clan rats and Stormvermin are fine models, as are all the later big models like Stormfiends and the Screaming Bell. What Skaven is desperate for is a new core unit box and a hero for Eshin, Moulder, Pestilens AND Skryre, but that's close to four whole new armies. In magical wish land, I'd love to see Skaven expanded to Grand Order Vermins, since I'd wager that would have as much interest as death and would allow each clan to really get it's own identity. But for the most part Skaven will have to go through several updates before it's even close to the original AoS armies in terms of model quality. 

Beasts of Chaos - Aside from their lack of updates, I'm not sure why people want a range refresh for BoC. Yes, it'd be nice for all the resin and metal kits to be updated, same as the other armies, but BoC had a big update late in WHFB, so I don't see why there would be much of a need to update any of the core troops outside of just wanting fancier models. The major updates I'd say BoC needs is a new paint job and a fancy centerpiece to look less like a WHFB army. 

Ogor Mawtribes - I truly don't understand why people clamour for a new Mawtribes update, since they're in a similar position as BoC in getting a late WHFB update so they've got new models, but they also have the bonus of being popular enough to have lots of rep in the AoS lore to pull from. The only big ask I could see would be to update the core Glutton box, because the design is so static now compared to standard AoS troops. It's 2023, we deserve better than the lines of people slowly walking forward. It'd also be nice for them to have a centerpiece and some plastic heroes, but they're a solid line that I don't think requires the update as much as the other three listed. 

Ogors troops all share the same bodies. Gluttons, Ironguts and Leadbelchers need new dynamic posing like the new Chaos Warriors. 90% of the range turns 20 next year.

AOS wise, Ogors have only recieved 2 models, Tyrant and Bloodpelt Hunter and a Terrain piece in 7 years.

[Nazarjo]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

A pretty solid post. In your opinion, what would be refreshed then?

Not counting FEC because we're probably getting that within a year anyway, I'd love to see a bunch of unit boxes get revamped for Skaven

[Nazarjo]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Looking through the old catalogues, it seems like the basic BoC troops are from 2010 and the basic Ogor troops are from 2005/06. Not even mentoning all the awful finecast models in those armies, that is a good enough of a reason to update these factions.

I think it's my bias because those were the latest updates when I first started playing, they still feel new to me! 

[Ejecutor]

Don't you think that the minis update would come mainly from the hand of which minis are moving into ToW? Kind of what is happening with CoS. Maybe their second wave, and consecuently Malerion, is closer than we think?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Ejecutor said:

Don't you think that the minis update would come mainly from the hand of which minis are moving into ToW? Kind of what is happening with CoS. Maybe their second wave, and consecuently Malerion, is closer than we think?

If anything I think the development of TOW follows the plans already in place for AoS, not the other way around.

[KingBrodd]

16 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Don't you think that the minis update would come mainly from the hand of which minis are moving into ToW? Kind of what is happening with CoS. Maybe their second wave, and consecuently Malerion, is closer than we think?

We need to remember that TOW is a boxed side game. All plans relating to it are from a seperate studio but those big decisions will prioritise AOS.

[novakai]

10 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

We need to remember that TOW is a boxed side game. All plans relating to it are from a seperate studio but those big decisions will prioritise AOS.

Warhammer weekly said it best when regarding there teams
 

there are three main game studio in GW (40K, AoS, and Specialist/ Box game) and they sort of internally compete with one and another (in the friendliest corporate terms). They not really going to share resources with one and another  and are run independently and each has to justify their project to the corporate heads.

[novakai]

on the subject of range refresh, from what I heard GW are generally cautious of redoing already plastic minis (replacing old finecast and metal is fine as there is a demand for old sculpt being brought into plastic). The reason being is that when making molds for new models they plan to sell a certain amount to be profitable and sometimes the old model compete with the new model in a way.

However, they seem more willing to update units that are troop/ battleline units (Guardians, imperial guard, OrK boyz, Saurus warriors, chaos warriors, etc) as they are often needed to be baseline of your army so people buy them in mass more.

[Jetlife]

I think majority of us can look at a model and say that doesn’t fit. Obviously, metal and resin have to go, but there are a lot of plastic models from a long time ago that still work.  
 

Skinks and saurus are a great examples. The skinks still work and didn’t need an update, however the saurus looked unsettling. 

The Seraphon update is what we should expect. They kept what held up enough, they replaced resin and metal, and retired things that had run its course. Looking at that army as a whole there isn’t anything that screams, wow that doesn’t match. 
 

For FEC, everything they have works. They just need a shot of additional models. I’ll go out on a limb and say that I think what’s they have out now will stay as the rag tag ghouls and we will see influx of more dignified ghouls. More clothing, weapons, etc. 

For Ogors, the plastic Basic guys hold up well enough. Replacing everything that is resin or metal will improve that army dramatically. 
 

Bonesplitazz is a tough one. Their design space is different enough from the other warclans but their body dimensions and squared angles really make them look out of touch from other orrucks. Especially compared to what we saw in the underworlds warband. They might have to be a complete relaunch. 
 

BOC is another one that I feel the plastics don’t even hold up well. The gors could use some work and of course everything that is resin has to go. 
 

Skaven is the hard one. There are some great looking units that not only hold up, but they excel. But then there are some terrible outdated ones. There’s also so much Skaven. Part of me feels if they are the 4.0 launch they won’t be redoing as much as maybe releasing a new clan with all new stuff. But I’m not sure 

 

[Ejecutor]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

If anything I think the development of TOW follows the plans already in place for AoS, not the other way around.

Maybe. I see it that way for the long term, but for the initial setting of ToW wouldn't surprise me that the release schedule changed a bit on the AoS side to fit ToW minis that are currently in AoS.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Ejecutor

[The Lost Sigmarite]

7 hours ago, Nazarjo said:

Beasts of Chaos - Aside from their lack of updates, I'm not sure why people want a range refresh for BoC. Yes, it'd be nice for all the resin and metal kits to be updated, same as the other armies, but BoC had a big update late in WHFB, so I don't see why there would be much of a need to update any of the core troops outside of just wanting fancier models. The major updates I'd say BoC needs is a new paint job and a fancy centerpiece to look less like a WHFB army.

I never woud've guessed I would see people in 2023 saying "yeah the plastic BoC models need no upgrade, the current Ungors/Gors/Bestigors/Minotaurs hold up totally well in modern AoS". Those models are static, lack details, have gigantic mold lines, and you can see the junctions of the different parts of the model even when painted. They come from a bigone era of GW design, when things were still hand sculpted and molding tech made minis way less detailed, and it shows. The only BoC minis that escape looking so dated are the Cygor/Ghorgon, Dragon Ogors, Shaman and the AoS plastics. 

7 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Speaking of updates, Chaos Daemons are generally spoiled release-wise, but the range itself is varyingly old (mostly Lesser Daemons) : 

Just to recap (plastic models still sold) :

• 2008 : Daemonettes and Bloodletters
• 2010 : Bloodcrushers, Mounted Daemonettes, Horrors of Tzeentch
• 2012 : Plaguebearers, Nurglings, Seeker Chariot/Hellflayer, Tzeentch Screamers, Flamers of Tzeentch
• 2013 : Plague Drones, Blood Throne/Skull Cannon, Burning Chariot/Herald of Tzeentch on Chariot, Herald of Nurgle on foot. 
• 2015 : Bloodthirster and later Skarbrand
• 2016 and beyond : modern AOS plastic kits for every Chaos Gods

I do think GW will try to squeeze as much time as possible from the plastic Demons. Even if I'd like to see new versions of some of those (especially anything Slaanesh and Tzeentch that's pre 2013) I still think it's pretty unlikely. GW will want to make them last as long as possible like they did for the Cadians. 

5 hours ago, Chikout said:

Mawtribes-

For this range I expect anything currently in plastic to stay. The gluttons are a bit monopose but they hold up pretty well. I'd like to see everything in resin updated and a couple of completely new things for each half of the range. 

Skaven. 

New Eshin, new Skyre Acolytes, new pestilens infantry, new Rat Ogres and a bunch of completely new insanities would be nice. I expect all the other plastics to stay. 

Anything plastic Gutbusters in Mawtribes still holds kinda well, but I'd still be nice to see them get updated... At least some of them.
Also btw am I the only one who thinks the current clanrat kit looks better than the stormvermin kit ?

7 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Also, Nurgle-related, next year the wonderful Putrid Blightkings kit will be 10 years old. Ouch...

Dam, that makes me feel old... still remember when that kit launched.

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

14 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I never woud've guessed I would see people in 2023 saying "yeah the plastic BoC models need no upgrade

Agreed; to my eyes, the Gallowfall sculpts blow ANY of the current Beastmen lines out of the water and I can’t wait to see the army updated with even a faction of the awesomeness of those space goats 😍