AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Nagashfan]

30 minutes ago, Drazhoath said:

A guy on YouTube said this. Maybe its in the Core Book.

I think u can bring as many as the points of the game allow but only can control one at a time per wiz 🤷🏼‍♂️

[LeonBox]

3 hours ago, Drazhoath said:

A guy on YouTube said this. Maybe its in the Core Book.

The core rules say you can only cast one endless spell per wizard, but doesn't say anything about endless spells being limited. Maybe the battle packs limit them though, as I also recall hearing that you could only take one per wizard. 

[Nagashfan]

Ok going by what I own:  

list one

 

invaders

Archaon - 830

chaos sorcerer lord - 115 - rod o misrule

chaos lord - 120

11 blissbarbs - 180

2x5 hellstriders - 135 each 

10 slickblade seekers - 470

1985

List two

Archaon - 830

chaos sorcerer lord - 115

chaos lord - 120

11 blissbarbs - 180

2x5 hellstriders - 135 each

6 fiends - 400

Endless spell - M Mirror - 80

1995

[Enoby]

15 hours ago, Cambyses said:

Does anyone have any experience with Syll'Esske in the new edition? I thought they were quite mediocre in the previous edition but they didn't go up much in pts and gained in both damage output and durability, which could be the push for them to be actually quite efficient.

 

I'm envisioning them as second wave utility piece that sits fairly close to the screening units to provide buffs through casts & command abilities, which can reposition decently quickly to go after soft targets or counter-punch as needed.

I used them in my last game and I'm a bit on the fence about them. They don't do much damage, which is fine, but their value really hinges on the battleshock immunity. I had four units of mortals (3×5 Painbringers, 10 Twinsouls), and because of how staggered the losses were, I never needed to use their command ability.

That said, my list and the battle in general didn't really play into having all of the mortals fight at once, so often inspiring presence worked well enough.

That said, in a more normal game with more mortals I can imagine they would be more useful. Especially if you were including Slickblades. 

So I think they have a place, but they're not an auto include even in any mortal list, but I'd recommend them in mass mortal lists. 

[Gordrakk]

New point changes are rough, but I’m not chucking the towel in just yet! What does everyone think to this draft list?

Host: Lurid Haze

Core Batallion: Warlord

Dex’cessa - 280pts

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh - Dark Delusions - 150pts

Lord of Pain (General) - Oil of Exultation, Feverish Anticpation - 150pts

10 Symbaresh Twinsouls - 370pts

Core Batallion: Vanguard

Sigvald the Magnificent - 265pts

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers - 160pts

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers - 160pts

Core Batallion: Vanguard

Bladebringer on Seeker Chariot - Amulet of Destiny, Born of Damnation - 190pts

5 Hellstriders with Claw Spears - 135pts

5 Hellstriders with Claw Spears - 135pts

Total: 2000pts

94 Wounds in total, got a mix of speed and a couple of hammer and anvil units.

 

 

 

[pnkdth]

9 minutes ago, Gordrakk said:

New point changes are rough, but I’m not chucking the towel in just yet! What does everyone think to this draft list?

Host: Lurid Haze

Core Batallion: Warlord

Dex’cessa - 280pts

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh - Dark Delusions - 150pts

Lord of Pain (General) - Oil of Exultation, Feverish Anticpation - 150pts

10 Symbaresh Twinsouls - 370pts

Core Batallion: Vanguard

Sigvald the Magnificent - 265pts

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers - 160pts

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers - 160pts

Core Batallion: Vanguard

Bladebringer on Seeker Chariot - Amulet of Destiny, Born of Damnation - 190pts

5 Hellstriders with Claw Spears - 135pts

5 Hellstriders with Claw Spears - 135pts

Total: 2000pts

94 Wounds in total, got a mix of speed and a couple of hammer and anvil units.

 

 

 

Looks good. Similar to the evolving template of Hedonites, i.e. a formation around 10 Twinsouls + 2-3 PBs and a seeker missile (Siggie and/or Dexc). There are some variation too which incorporates blissbarbs but overall I think your list can do the good work of Slaanesh well.

Aside from some head turners, as an army hedonites are looking pretty good. It is interesting to see previously sceptical players turn around and claim Hedonites might be a sleeper army. Given how powerful summoning is in 3rd (and how easy it is to get DPs) you can reliably make lists and plan around summoning key units throughout the game.

To excess and beyond!

[Lucentia]

It seems to me like it would be possible to leverage summoning to bring a strong late game presence with Hedonites, my concern would be actually surviving into the late game to apply that advantage with a generally low wounds/low defence starting force!  Also in AoS 2 you often saw games decided more towards the mid game, but I haven't played enough 3.0 to comment if that's still true.

Anyway, I painted a full Hedonites army under the previous book (It was exactly 4k points, now it is mysteriously more than that...)  But I've been working on other stuff so I'm only just getting round to cracking into the mortal side of things, these blissbarb archers are wildly fiddly, their detailed as if they're heroes as opposed to mediocre battleline!  Is there a particular point when it's best to kill the homonculous rather than another bow, or is it more efficient to keep him alive until the end?

[Elazar The Glorified]

Is there any merit in running the Shardspeaker as a Master of Magic for a reroll on casting, unbinding and dispelling in each Hero phase? Feel like it mitigates a little against their biggest limitation as a caster just can't make up my mind on whether losing Glory Hog on something else in an Invaders army is too much of an opportunity cost but if the Rod of Misrule is in the list that's potentially sufficient...

[Enoby]

6 minutes ago, Elazar The Glorified said:

Is there any merit in running the Shardspeaker as a Master of Magic for a reroll on casting, unbinding and dispelling in each Hero phase? Feel like it mitigates a little against their biggest limitation as a caster just can't make up my mind on whether losing Glory Hog on something else in an Invaders army is too much of an opportunity cost but if the Rod of Misrule is in the list that's potentially sufficient...

I think it would be worth a try - certainly would make her more of a caster. 

In all honesty, Glory Hog is good (no question there), but it's worse than it was in AoS 2 as it amounts to a free CP during the second turn of the round, and a free CP during the final battleshock phase (good for inspiring presence of Syll'Esske but not for anything else) that can't be banked. Definitely very nice to keep CP flowing, but not a must take, especially if running a low priority battleshock army (e.g. daemons). 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Enoby

[LeonBox]

14 hours ago, Enoby said:

Definitely very nice to keep CP flowing, but not a must take, especially if running a low priority battleshock army (e.g. daemons). 

I feel that the opportunity to address how much of a non-issue battleshock is was definitely missed in 3.0. The immunity to battleshock CA should really be "set bravery to 10 until the end of the battleshock phase". Still, I guess they limited it to being usable only once per battleshock phase, which might hurt some armies. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by LeonBox

[Enoby]

Just now, LeonBox said:

I feel that not taking the opportunity to address how much of a non-issue battleshock is was definitely missed in 3.0. The immunity to battleshock CA should really be "set bravery to 10 until the end of the battleshock phase". Still, I guess they limited it to being usable only once per battleshock phase, which might hurt some armies. 

Yeah, I totally agree. I'd have much preferred all battleshock immunity to be "turn bravery to 10/to hero's bravery" and then swap battleshock to 40k's variant so it's also less swingy and hurts hordes more than elites. 

It's strange, bravery is one of the worst rules in AoS (more just in that it's either a non-issue or massively crippling to the army), but there was only a small amount put into address this. 

On the other hand, after a few games, I much prefer the ruleset of AoS 3 compared to 2, though I can see 3 becoming bloated if they're not careful.

[Lurynsar]

11 hours ago, Enoby said:

On the other hand, after a few games, I much prefer the ruleset of AoS 3 compared to 2, though I can see 3 becoming bloated if they're not careful.

This is exactly my feelings. 3rd edition has some great rules (no matter how you feel about Slaanesh) and the people fleeing the game because it's "bad" or "dead" or "GW doesn't understand" are baffling to me, and feel like reactions without time spent on the game.

I come from both a 40K, and Warmachine background so bloat is something doesn't bother me much at all, but for those of you who preferred the older smaller rule set with simple rules will be disappointing as the bloat grows.

[AngryPanda]

16 hours ago, Gordrakk said:

New point changes are rough, but I’m not chucking the towel in just yet! What does everyone think to this draft list?

Host: Lurid Haze

Core Batallion: Warlord

Dex’cessa - 280pts

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh - Dark Delusions - 150pts

Lord of Pain (General) - Oil of Exultation, Feverish Anticpation - 150pts

10 Symbaresh Twinsouls - 370pts

Core Batallion: Vanguard

Sigvald the Magnificent - 265pts

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers - 160pts

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers - 160pts

Core Batallion: Vanguard

Bladebringer on Seeker Chariot - Amulet of Destiny, Born of Damnation - 190pts

5 Hellstriders with Claw Spears - 135pts

5 Hellstriders with Claw Spears - 135pts

Total: 2000pts

94 Wounds in total, got a mix of speed and a couple of hammer and anvil units.

 

 

 

Lord of Pain is 155, might have to change your list 

[Lurynsar]

Alright, it's update time again. I won't really rehash what I have said, but will confirm a few things I believe at this point.

1) Sigvald is good, but sometimes too random for me to love as much as I thought I would. He is still 100% a good, or even great, option. I just feel for me he doesn't offer what I am looking for.

2) Twinsouls and Painbringers are 100% fairly costed, and do their roles well. The 2" melee range is insane this edition with how coherency is now meant to be played. I know it's like sacrliage to state such points are fair, but these units are fine, and not overcosted. I never felt bad about these 20 models in a single game. However do not expect 5 Painbringers to kill anything. The weight of dice for mortals do not exist, but that is not their role at all.

3) The Shardspeaker is amazing. Dies to a swiff breeze, and is a little reliant on dice rolls (spells and her 3+ ability), but she is worth the dice and her cost at 150 is actually not an issue, because it feels so cheap.

4) I cannot make Slickblades worth almost a quarter of my list. At 230 points for 5, they just don't do enough for their cost. I hope someone can unlock some tech to make them worth it, but for me they are done for now.

5) I am super hot and cold on Blissbarbs. I was using them poorly, and hated them. Used them better (and cheated for 2 games oops!) and they were great. Used them better, and didn't cheat and they were solid a few games and awful a few others. For now they stay so I can see if its a me or a them issue.

Now I don't really do battle reports yet, but maybe I will in time. That said for those who care I went 8-2 with this list. I played Soulblight x3, Lumineth, Daughters x2, Kharadrons, Blades of Khorne, Nighthaunt and Stormcast. My losses were to Soulblight once, and to Nighthaunt (I know; how?). However I don't want my W/L record to be too much confirmation of anything, as I am a long time wargamer and competitive grinder in the past. While AoS was not my tournament game the stricter mentality and tight playstyle does allow me success in "casual" games where I might not see it in more difficult events. Never-the-less I am happy with the faction so far.

So going forward for my next 10 games I have a new list to try with elements I want to practice.

Spoiler

 

Hedonites of Slaanesh
Invaders Host (Lurid Haze)

Battle Regiment
Commander
Dexcessa (General)                            280 Points
Sub-commanders
Lord of Pain (General)                       155 Points
-Feverish Anticipation [Command Trait]
-Oil of Exultation [Artefact]
Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (General)   150 Points
Troops
10 Symbaresh Twinsouls                    370 Points            
5 Myrmidesh Painbringers                160 Points
5 Myrmidesh Painbringers                160 Points
5 Hellstriders (Hellscourges)              135 Points
5 Hellstriders (Claw-Spears)               135 Points
Monster
Formoroid Crusher                            110 Points

No Battalion
11 Blissbarb Archers                          180 Points
Mindstealer Sphiranx                         95 Points

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum                       65 Points

Triumph
Inspired                

Total 1995 Points

 

Okay so where is my head at with this list? Well I wanted to keep the core (Lord of Pain, Shardspeaker, 10 Twinsouls, 2x5 Painbringers and Blissbarbs together). So from there I made the change to Dexcessa, from Sigvald. My hope is she is more reliable and will feel better to me long term. On paper I am interested to see how she does, and am excited. Melee can grow to be gross, she is another Monster in this list, and can issue a free command each turn, which can be huge.

Speaking of Monsters, I have added (on the information from some fellow forum goers) allies in the form of the Crusher and the Sphiranx. These are both low level monsters, but combined with Dexcessa gives me 3 monsters to start with before summons. This will play very differently I feel because of their new rules, so I am very excited to see how they go.

From there the Hellstriders replace the Slickblades, and I am hopeful they can do the job the Slickblades did, but at a much cheaper cost. I am using a unit of each equipment option, as I am unsure of which is better, and do actually see a lot of utility for both. Hopefully by playing them both I can gather data on which I prefer. They are also my first Slaanesh models I ever painted for Age of Sigmar, so its cool to play them again. The Pendulum replaces Wheels, and I am almost certain that I will dislike the change, but the points needed to be made up somewhere and this was where it went. I hope with a 2+ required for mortals I can generate at least 2 DP each time I summon it in, but we will see.

Lastly I got to add a Triumph (since maybe someone will be at 2000 and I can use it), and had to add a third drop. I don't think a third drop will make much difference in going first as most opponents have been sitting at 5-7 drops currently, but if I start losing first turn, it will be changed back. The two drop list was wonderful, and I like having the early board control too much.

So we will have to see how things go. Hopefully in the next few days I will get the first games in and can report back on the new units. I am confident this list has some less than optimal choices, but I wan't to give them a chance, and play with some new rules to really see how they do.

[Enoby]

5 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

*Snip*

Thanks for the write up

I think, after some time of mulling it over, I'm still disappointed in some of our points (and am now certain Slaangor increases were a joke), but I am much more hopeful for our faction than I was when the points first came out. 

I agree that Slickblades could do with a decrease - I think they were nicely balanced at 200. At 230 they struggle to make up their points in relation to how squishy they are. 

Personally, playing a few games with them, I do think Painbringers should come down a little (probably to original points) simply because they need LoP tax to make them battleline. They're definitely designed to be "good" battleline with how tanky but not particularly killy they are (and I don't think I ever see them taken outside of battleline), so the extra cost of the LoP should be factored in. The reason I think they could come down a little is just because of their lack of wounds for their cost - they're great in melee but suffer heavily to magic and shooting, and because you only get 10 wounds for 160 points and their job is to tank, they can be cleared up very easily for their elite cost in ways you often can't avoid. That said, I'll keep running games with them.

I'm interested to learn how the crusha and sphinx go for you - they're very cheap and they don't seem half bad. 

---

As an aside, I do like that, after a week of thinking, we've not managed to come up with a definitive best list. It sounds silly but a lot of the "better" armies get solved because their best lists are obvious. For example, Idoneth and their eels, or Fyreslayers and Hearthguard. 

I don't think we've ever been able to definitively say "this is our best unit" without someone disagreeing and bringing up very valid counterpoints. 

That said, I'm almost certain that the zeitgeist of AoS's community will continue to be "Slaanesh bad" until we get a new book or massive points drops, even if we prove otherwise here. 

[zombiepiratexxx]

I do kind of like the idea that Slaanesh stays under the radar, that we can actually have a strong book, that performs decently for us without someone doing a return to 2019 of screaming how OP everything is. If it can be a sleeper army that does well for what it is, in and out of tourneys I'm not that bothered about as long as we can just have fun games and don't get roflstomped every time. No-one will be jumping on the Slaanesh bandwagon just to get an OP army that wins them games easy. If we have to work for it a little more, enjoy the army and the amazing models we have, I think that's a good place to be in. 

[Ragest]

Try Glutos and the chariot with the arterfact that gives +1 dagame and then use the spell that gives another +1 damage.

My friend that plays Slaneesh is happier than never with this edition, have won all matches.

[Drazhoath]

Did you recognised that Glutos is a Behemoth now? Does it mean he is also a monster?

[Drazhoath]

2 minutes ago, Ragest said:

Try Glutos and the chariot with the arterfact that gives +1 dagame and then use the spell that gives another +1 damage.

My friend that plays Slaneesh is happier than never with this edition, have won all matches.

What artefact gives +1 damage?

[Enoby]

20 minutes ago, Drazhoath said:

Did you recognised that Glutos is a Behemoth now? Does it mean he is also a monster?

Not a monster, just a behemoth for restrictions

Though, there is an incredibly slim chance (like, absolutely tiny) he gets a warscroll errata for a priest and monster keyword, but I highly doubt it

[LeonBox]

22 minutes ago, Drazhoath said:

What artefact gives +1 damage?

This is a good question. A Herald on Exalted Chariot with 9-10 damage 3 attacks would be broken beyond all belief. 

[Elazar The Glorified]

There's the Flaming Weapon spell... It keeps making me wonder if there's a fun Hero Monster hunting Faultless Blades Keeper with Master of Magic, that Spell and the Amulet of Destiny... 

[Enoby]

Some insights into our points:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/25/designers-notes-how-points-changes-make-the-new-edition-more-balanced-than-ever/#utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=AoS&utm_content=AoSPearson25June21

As expected, points are so high due to summoning - it does sound like we see no changes in the FAQ.

[LeonBox]

But in some good news, Glutos, Synessa and Shalaxi will be able to take a spell or spells: 

Edited June 25, 2021 by LeonBox

[Sigmarusvult]

So it looks like the new points reflect the op summoning that we got... In a previous edition 😂.

Seriously if they can't balance this mechanic then please GW, just remove it and point this army accordingly, I am sure it would make everyone happier, including you GW.

I've never understood why summoning had to be such a biggy in a Slaanesh army 🤔, it's not even a lore thing. I'd rather use depravity points in a similar way than bloodtithe, it's way more fun and interesting IMHO. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Sigmarusvult