AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[LeonBox]

2 minutes ago, Feorag said:

I'd really like a reason to run shalaxi though as the lore is great just nowhere near as effective as it needs to be now. 

Shalaxi is our only source of -3 rend, which has its niche uses (she's the only unit who can get through the LRL mountain faction's "ignore rend up to -2" rule, for instance). She's even swingier than a normal Keeper, however, unless you can get her warscroll spell off. 

[CeleFAZE]

4 minutes ago, JackOfBlades said:

I dont get your argument here, how would having to pay even more points for a summoning pool mean that the overcosted warscrolls fit in better in retrospect? I must be misunderstanding something.

I apologize for the lack of clarity, what I mean is that they potentially didn't spend much design time on our current point costs, as they were meant to be very temporary, and the more properly balanced point costs may have been held back in light of a revised approach to summoning in the new edition (to presumably be released in a game-wide point revision for the new edition, like we saw with 40k).

Edited May 27, 2021 by CeleFAZE

[JackOfBlades]

5 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I apologize for the lack of clarity, what I mean is that they potentially didn't spend spend much design time on our current point costs, as they were meant to be very temporary, and the more properly balanced point costs may have been held back in light of a revised approach to summoning in the new edition (to presumably be released in a game-wide point revision for the new edition, like we saw with 40k).

Yeah i went back and edited my post, to say what you said here: they may errata down the point costs while simultaneously making you have to pay points for summoning.

As you said, it would be an odd approach. The theory of the book being written under very heavy time constraint would make sense - either that, or that the heavy point costs are intended and will effectively stay through the revision when you add up the point reductions with the summoning cost increases.

Edited May 27, 2021 by JackOfBlades

[Enoby]

I'm hoping we see the Newborn warscrolls today... seems this week has been thin on the ground article-wise.

28 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Shalaxi is our only source of -3 rend, which has its niche uses (she's the only unit who can get through the LRL mountain faction's "ignore rend up to -2" rule, for instance). She's even swingier than a normal Keeper, however, unless you can get her warscroll spell off. 

Personally I think Shalaxi's spell should be just a constant ability that's always in effect, and their spell should be something that helps them reach their target (e.g. double movement and fly, but can only target heroes with their attacks that combat phase)  

[Feorag]

8 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Personally I think Shalaxi's spell should be just a constant ability that's always in effect, and their spell should be something that helps them reach their target (e.g. double movement and fly, but can only target heroes with their attacks that combat phase)  

With shalaxi as they don't seem to be opposed to autohits have the spear autohit Vs monsters and heroes similar to the lumineth blademasters strike. 

[CeleFAZE]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I'm hoping we see the Newborn warscrolls today... seems this week has been thin on the ground article-wise.

Personally I think Shalaxi's spell should be just a constant ability that's always in effect, and their spell should be something that helps them reach their target (e.g. double movement and fly, but can only target heroes with their attacks that combat phase)  

I personally would've liked to see something with Shalaxi like a 3d6 charge within 18" of a hero, but it's considered a failed charge if you're unable to end within .5" of an enemy hero. Also Soulpiercer really needs more than a single attack. If Durthu can get away with multiple attacks that deal nearly as much damage unconditionally, we can stand to have a few attacks with the spear.

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, Feorag said:

With shalaxi as they don't seem to be opposed to autohits have the spear autohit Vs monsters and heroes similar to the lumineth blademasters strike. 

Yeah, autohits would also work. I would consider "count all hits as 6s", but I think that would be a bit much.

Basically, they just need to make them the best hero hunter in the game. Not "one of the best", but the actual best as that's what they were made for. 

1 minute ago, CeleFAZE said:

I personally would've liked to see something with Shalaxi like a 3d6 charge within 18" of a hero, but it's considered a failed charge if you're unable to end within .5" of an enemy hero. Also Soulpiercer really needs more than a single attack. If Durthu can get away with multiple attacks that deal nearly as much damage unconditionally, we can stand to have a few attacks with the spear.

And I agree - Soulpiercer isn't good enough to justify the single attack. I'd actually like it if they took a bit from the fiends and varied the number of attacks based on the wounds of the target, with an additional +1 if they're a hero/monster.

Shalaxi definitely needed some help with getting into heroes; the challenge is cool, but can be refused for not too bad a price, or the charge can be failed if they're far away/can't fly. 

They need to strike fear into an opponent who has a hero undefended. As of now, they're barely if at all scarier than a  base KoS.  

[Feorag]

4 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Yeah, autohits would also work. I would consider "count all hits as 6s", but I think that would be a bit much.

Basically, they just need to make them the best hero hunter in the game. Not "one of the best", but the actual best as that's what they were made for. 

And I agree - Soulpiercer isn't good enough to justify the single attack. I'd actually like it if they took a bit from the fiends and varied the number of attacks based on the wounds of the target, with an additional +1 if they're a hero/monster.

Shalaxi definitely needed some help with getting into heroes; the challenge is cool, but can be refused for not too bad a price, or the charge can be failed if they're far away/can't fly. 

They need to strike fear into an opponent who has a hero undefended. As of now, they're barely if at all scarier than a  base KoS.  

Maybe damage = 1/2 would total of hero or monster. That's scary damage but the smaller heros aren't negatively impacted meaning you only throw shalaxi at a worthy foe. As first 6 v heros means you just go picking off the small fries.

[LeonBox]

I have a soft spot for Shalaxi and field them much more than I probably should. I love the lore and model, even if they're subpar compared to a vanilla Keeper. I almost always give them Paths of the Dark Prince to help them get into combat, which has been a very nasty surprise for my opponent on more than one occasion. If they're up against a hero that gives minuses to hit, though, it really hurts when Soulpiercer doesn't get through. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by LeonBox
Grammar

[Feorag]

I too love shalaxi, I love spears and polearms. Absolutely love the two from the Dread Pageant and going to be using the new SCE for a unit of myrmidesh! 

I'd love slaanesh to have a group a polearm using infantry! 

All this waiting is killing me now I need to know what Saturday brings with the new kragnos rules.

One worry is the voice is an absolutely amazing buff piece and we become the next Archaon home! 

[pnkdth]

On 5/26/2021 at 10:09 PM, Popisdead said:

I like the tie-in narrative for Slaanesh vs haughty aelves.  nice catch.  did you read the novel?  

No, haven't read it myself. I just wanted to give a heads up and think it is cool Hedonites and Slaanesh are getting frequent mentions in BR:Kragnos and for the story ahead. 

Edit: This bit is also neat,

"Excelsis had already been weakened, undermined by the perfidious skaven and cults of Slaaneshi worshippers before the armies of Destruction arrived." 

Since I like it that we're being portrayed not just as chaos warbands but also the slow corrupting influence of Slaanesh. Who knows, maybe we might even accidentally end up fighting against Destruction. Not because of caring about the city as is but the city as it should be, i.e. a glorious city of pleasure and pain.

Edited May 27, 2021 by pnkdth

[Yoid]

Well, our Daemon size was not updated with the new tome at all (just minor changes like Syl'Eskke and a bunch of nerfs). So most of our Daemons warscrolls including Shalaxi are actually pretty outdated. It sucks because we are gonna be stuck with this battletome for years and people is gonna say "Other armies need a new battletome more" without thinking that Daemonettes/Seekers/Chariots/Heralds/Fiends/KoS were all untouched. This was not an update to the old range, just an add-on of the mortals. Arguebly the real update for Daemons are Dexcessa and Synessa (we still don't know if warscrolls gonna change, Contorted Epitome, Fiends and Seekers are confirmed to be in a new battalion, that may include a warscroll rewrite for someone)

I can see them baking the summoning points with the intention to compensate for some AoS 3.0 summoning limitation. Im agaisn't that because at that point it simply look like deploying your troops in reserve instead of a fun in-battle minigame of generating points. But since every unit is overcosted by 50% aprox, I can see summoned troops costing 50% of their full value (points ending in 5s now would allow this even better) to keep a mix of both systems.

I highly doubt it, because then they would kill SBGL, and they dosn't have the summoning baked in their points. Slaanesh is a weird case with many mistakes (overcosted units, overnerfed warscrolls and sub-factions, slaangors). The most probable reason is still the internal conflict in design philosophy and the rush of certain products to work in others.

[Third]

12 minutes ago, Yoid said:

Slaanesh is a weird case with many mistakes (overcosted units, overnerfed warscrolls and sub-factions, slaangors). The most probable reason is still the internal conflict in design philosophy and the rush of certain products to work in others.

You forgot to mention broken artifacts, missing subfactions (in the battletome), a really weak spell lore and just a huge lack of command abilities and synergies in general..! (And I'm really trying not to mention how broken the Azyr app is in regards to Slaanesh (and a lot of other stuff)).
God I hope the Twins and 3.0 is awesome!

 

PS. I STILL prefer the new playstyle to the old one we had, so there is that

[Yoid]

4 minutes ago, Third said:

You forgot to mention broken artifacts, missing subfactions (in the battletome), a really weak spell lore and just a huge lack of command abilities and synergies in general..! (And I'm really trying not to mention how broken the Azyr app is in regards to Slaanesh (and a lot of other stuff)).
God I hope the Twins and 3.0 is awesome!

 

PS. I STILL prefer the new playstyle to the old one we had, so there is that

I was trying to mention that as "Overnerfed warscrolls and sub-factions". With the sub-factions that make no sense in the current story and pretenders traits and artifacts being nerfed to the point that sub-faction got no purpose at all. It is weird that they nerfed Strenght of Godhood, Sliverslash and the KoS CA, whoever did that was unable to see how all the three things add into each other making a super-keeper build completely useless. And that was a non-competitive sub-faction even before nerfs.

It is what it is. We are lucky with the change to summoning and locus because the old way of list-building and playing was awful. But that was the only change-nerf needed, and they simply overnerfed everything else too for no reason.

[Enoby]

Alleged leak on twin points:

"Slaanesh twins 260 and 280 in their cost apparently."

I don't know if these are accurate at all, mind. 

[Yoid]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Alleged leak on twin points:

"Slaanesh twins 260 and 280 in their cost apparently."

I don't know if these are accurate at all, mind. 

We don't know if that is legit yet. But I can see a regular KoS being 280 and Shalaxi being 260 if they remove the overcost of units, so maybe the twins are KoS powerwise after all. If they come as Sigvald/Exalted Chariot power level im gonna be somewhat disappointed.

[Jaskier]

The Kroak leak is confirmed accurate (the 3D6 + wounds suffered rule is on his leaked warscroll) so it's pretty much set the Twins are 260 and 280. I'm very curious about their rules now as I expected them to at least be stronger than Keepers. 

[Feorag]

It's not looking great for us. I'm still getting both for painting meta but I really hope they work!

[Mcthew]

1 hour ago, Feorag said:

It's not looking great for us. I'm still getting both for painting meta but I really hope they work!

Wow. That's really quite underwhelming - if it's true. (Slaanesh must be pretty feeble if this is the best it can spawn).

Anyone got an idea of scale for this model? Was expecting same size as a KoS? But at 9 wounds... feels like its about the same size as a Drycha. Might wrong though.

[Yoid]

2 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

Wow. That's really quite underwhelming - if it's true. (Slaanesh must be pretty feeble if this is the best it can spawn).

Anyone got an idea of scale for this model? Was expecting same size as a KoS? But at 9 wounds... feels like its about the same size as a Drycha. Might wrong though.

Estimated size is quite big. Im surprised they dont have 11 wounds at least. In the reveal video they are next to Daemonettes and they only reach to the tip of their feet. They are estimated to be taller than a KoS too (While having a tinier body because they are floating).

 

[Mcthew]

Just now, Yoid said:

Estimated size is quite big. Im surprised they dont have 11 wounds at least. In the reveal video they are next to Daemonettes and they only reach to the tip of their feet. They are estimated to be taller than a KoS too (While having a tinier body because they are floating).

 

9 wounds has gotta be wrong then - and by extension this leak.

Either that or the rules writers really hate HoS. Which is also possible.

[Yoid]

1 minute ago, Mcthew said:

9 wounds has gotta be wrong then - and by extension this leak.

Either that or the rules writers really hate HoS. Which is also possible.

Maybe the second. I would believe they are overdoing the glass in the supposed "Glass Cannon".

Looking at some Drycha size pics, she is quite big, i can see the main body of the twins being that size. But they are also floating above the falling clothes and having some massive wings that make them taller and wider as a whole.

[Nasrod]

1 minute ago, Mcthew said:

9 wounds has gotta be wrong then - and by extension this leak.

Either that or the rules writers really hate HoS. Which is also possible.

Kroak is confirmed from what I have seen.

Denial was the first stage for me, too. 

[The Wah]

2 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

Kroak is confirmed from what I have seen.

Denial was the first stage for me, too. 

The Nile?! Tomb Kings confirmed! oh sorry.. denial.

[Yoid]

1 minute ago, Nasrod said:

Kroak is confirmed from what I have seen.

Denial was the first stage for me, too. 

May be a different leaker, the warscroll of Kroak is already in the rumour thread for everyone to see.

But yeah, it can be that way, and they may really miss the mark about what we expected from the twins.

Or maybe they got other OP things in the warscrolls. We will see.