Mutter Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Like a lot of people, I was originally drawn to the Gristlegore Court and the sheer awesomeness that is Savage Strike. But then, I kinda started to think about going with the Feast Day delusion instead. [Army is basically Archregent, GKoTG, KGoZD, GK, 40, 10 and 10 ghouls and a Corpse Cart plus Chalice.] Obviously, I'd be missing out on the security blanket that is the first strike, but instead, I gain 10 CP worth of Feeding Frenzy, basically ensuring a double strike with both monsters for the first three turns or so. Also, I'll be gaining +2 on casting and unbinding for the Archregent (Dark Wizardry & Dermal Robe), basically making sure that I will almost always get the +d3 attacks on the TG, and that the Chalice is gonna go off to help my monsters survive. So, basically, I'll have to play slightly more cagey, but then unleash hopefully even more brutal hell on my opponents. What dou you think? Full list: Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast DayMortal Realm: GhurLeadersAbhorrant Archregent (200)- General- Trait: Dark Wizardy - Artefact: The Dermal Robe - Lore of Madness: Spectral HostAbhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast- Mount Trait: Gruesome BiteAbhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)- Lore of Madness: Monstrous VigourAbhorrant Ghoul King (140)- Lore of Madness: Miasmal ShroudBattleline40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)Units1 x Corpse Cart (80)- AlliesEndless SpellsChalice of Ushoran (40)Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Total: 1900 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I like where your head is at. I'm always curious to see what lists people come up with outside of the obvious directions like gristlegore. Theres usually more power hidden in a tome than what's sitting on the surface. As to your list, I like your assessment that bonuses to cast will be important for our spells to go off. Geminids concern me though. They're very strong but with the goal of flesh eaters being up in the enemy's face, I fear geminids could very easily be turned against you, and the minuses to hit really hurt us. Especially on our monsters, minimizing your only source of rend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Mutter said: but instead, I gain 10 CP worth of Feeding Frenzy, How come? it‘s only once per turn... but the spectral host with the +3 to cast might get that merry celebration across the board pretty quickly, list looks brutal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyknatty Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Once per turn equals twice per battle round. So potentially ten times in a game. It’s too strong imho - maybe a candidate for getting faqed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Damn. Didn’t even see that. You onto something. My list is basically same as yours but I have a ghast instead of GK and I run ghoul patrol mostly for extra stuff but option to infiltrate ghouls is there. Army literally depends on 3 things: 1) getting spells off - need cart or something else to buff casting 2) CP for feeding frenzy 3) staying in auras. Especially save aura and ZD reroll wound spell aura (goes back to point 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 23 minutes ago, The Nameless One said: Once per turn equals twice per battle round. Vhat treachery is this... this is insane! and i don’t mean the usual delusion 🥳👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Honk said: but the spectral host with the +3 to cast might get that merry celebration across the board pretty quickly Especially since the casting roll of 10 for three targets is not a natural 10 like in NH. 1 hour ago, The Nameless One said: maybe a candidate for getting faqed? Possibly. So better get that carnage in before. 1 hour ago, CanHammer-darren said: My list is basically same as yours but I have a ghast instead of GK and I run ghoul patrol mostly for extra stuff but option to infiltrate ghouls is there. Yeah, I played around with battalions as well (Ghoul Patrol & Royal Family) but in the end always felt they nerfed those slightly too hard. Not getting drops down is annoying, but the list should make up for that in raw power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyTheKing Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Mutter said: Like a lot of people, I was originally drawn to the Gristlegore Court and the sheer awesomeness that is Savage Strike. But then, I kinda started to think about going with the Feast Day delusion instead. [Army is basically Archregent, GKoTG, KGoZD, GK, 40, 10 and 10 ghouls and a Corpse Cart plus Chalice.] Obviously, I'd be missing out on the security blanket that is the first strike, but instead, I gain 10 CP worth of Feeding Frenzy, basically ensuring a double strike with both monsters for the first three turns or so. Also, I'll be gaining +2 on casting and unbinding for the Archregent (Dark Wizardry & Dermal Robe), basically making sure that I will almost always get the +d3 attacks on the TG, and that the Chalice is gonna go off to help my monsters survive. So, basically, I'll have to play slightly more cagey, but then unleash hopefully even more brutal hell on my opponents. What dou you think? Full list: Hide contents Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast DayMortal Realm: GhurLeadersAbhorrant Archregent (200)- General- Trait: Dark Wizardy - Artefact: The Dermal Robe - Lore of Madness: Spectral HostAbhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast- Mount Trait: Gruesome BiteAbhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)- Lore of Madness: Monstrous VigourAbhorrant Ghoul King (140)- Lore of Madness: Miasmal ShroudBattleline40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)Units1 x Corpse Cart (80)- AlliesEndless SpellsChalice of Ushoran (40)Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Total: 1900 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 107 Considered maybe dropping 10 ghouls, geminids and cart for a Mortis Engine for a fast moving larger casting bonus and more mortal wounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said: Considered maybe dropping 10 ghouls, geminids and cart for a Mortis Engine for a fast moving larger casting bonus and more mortal wounds? Hmm, definitely a possibility. Although I prefer the 18" of the Cart to the 12" of the Engine, but I guess the higher mobility should make up for it. Might give both a spin, and see which one I prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyTheKing Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mutter said: Hmm, definitely a possibility. Although I prefer the 18" of the Cart to the 12" of the Engine, but I guess the higher mobility should make up for it. Might give both a spin, and see which one I prefer. A lot more durable too which helps a lot imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Yeah, the problem is that the whole Mortis Engine aesthetics goes pretty much against the FEC grain, and I can't really be bothered to think up and execute an elaborate conversion. The Corpse Cart fits the looks perfectly ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdead909 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, Mutter said: Yeah, the problem is that the whole Mortis Engine aesthetics goes pretty much against the FEC grain, and I can't really be bothered to think up and execute an elaborate conversion. The Corpse Cart fits the looks perfectly ... If you made all the ghosts into blood it looks pretty good. Matches our chalice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Gdead909 said: If you made all the ghosts into blood it looks pretty good. Hmmm, that might be something. Any pics of this, by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Bob Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Great post Mutter. This forum can have lively debates and occasionally one-sided dogmatic opinion. I often wonder if some discussion gets pushed out because of it. Reguardless I like this post. Personally as a fan of “MOAR Dice!” you pretty much stated how I feel on this. Having complicated feelings about the Corpse Cart. What is the value of the casting bonus verses more ghouls? Does the cart have any other tactical uses that offset the cost? Personally I wouldn’t use them but that has more to do with my tactics and mindset than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Evil Bob said: What is the value of the casting bonus verses more ghouls? None really, I think. Apart from maybe being an objective hugger, possibly. I just think that the new FEC live and die (so to speak) by their magic - more so than their super hard abilities like Savage Strike. To be able to securely get the Chalice of or Vicious Hunger can be even more important than that second Feeding Frenzy or whatever. Maybe the +2 casting on the Archregent is enough, but I feel like even spells like Unholy Vitality, Malefic Hunger and Black Hunger will be important, and the Cart helps with all of those. Basically, I think if you can have a hero phase were almost all your spells get through - your opponent is done for. So that's why I tried stacking so many casting buffs. Also, the extra 80 points don't buy much. If I was to kick the Geminids, I could have 20 instead of 10 ghouls, but I don't think that's really gonna matter much on a grand scale. Going to 30 or 40 is pretty essential, I think, but 10 or 20 I'm not so concerned with. But that's all theoreycrafting atm. Guess I'll have to see on the first testdrive ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdead909 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I avoid gemnids since that neg to hit can be super brutal if used against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 19 hours ago, Mutter said: Hmmm, that might be something. Any pics of this, by any chance? You could also stick ghouls on the horses and figure out a way of kitbashing the pile of zombie bodies onto the mortis engine platform. I think the more ornate look of the structure when combined with the gore of the corpses fits the fluff of FEC quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWilddog Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 20 hours ago, Mutter said: Hmmm, that might be something. Any pics of this, by any chance? @Mutter I originally had this as a Mortis Engine (eventually put it on a big base to be an AGK on ZD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 Yeah, last night I was thinking about maybe using something overblown & gothic - who knows, with the new Sisters of Battle, there might be something there. Although I'm not a 100% sure that the 100 extra points for the ME are really well spent. Need to give both a whirl ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 @Mutter before I can comment more substantively on your list, what is your goal here? Is this for tournament competitive play, casual competitive play or casual play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 Aim would definitely be competitive. I don't believe this is a friendly list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, Mutter said: Aim would definitely be competitive. I don't believe this is a friendly list. I think it'll probably be fine in a semi-competitive situation but suspect that you will struggle against top tier stuff. I see two major problems: You have 8 drops, so most competitive lists will get the choice of turn against you. You do have some ghouls to bunker with, but you really can't afford to lose your characters before they summon. If they manage to pick off your archregent on turn 1 you are in a lot of trouble. Your ghouls can't protect you against a battery of Jezzails or Warp Lightning Cannons Even if you do get to strike first I don't think your dragons can do enough against several key opponents. Both DoK and Legions lists can outlast your damage output, and Plague Monks are going to eat your lunch. Gristlegore helps a little against the alpha strike problem in that at least you get to hit first which makes that model a lot harder to alpha. If you cluster your characters you can probably ensure that you get to strike with your general before your opponent does, which at least gives you a fighting chance against a melee alpha. I'm not sure there is anything that you can do against a real ranged battery or super resilient opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 Thanks for those thoughts. And while I agree more or less with all of them, isn't this going to be true for almost all FEC lists: 8 hours ago, swarmofseals said: but suspect that you will struggle against top tier stuff. ? Especially 8 hours ago, swarmofseals said: so most competitive lists will get the choice of turn against you. and 8 hours ago, swarmofseals said: I'm not sure there is anything that you can do against a real ranged battery or super resilient opponents. I feel will be the problem for almost all FEC lists. Where I don't quite follow you is that Gristlegore is going to make this any better. It well not really help against small-drop lists (even with a battalion, we won't compete normal 1-3 drop lists), it will not help against shooting alphas and going first with one model is only going to do so much - especially, since most lists will not be able to afford the Feeding Frenzy after the first turn or so, even with an extra two to three CP. And as far as damage output goes - iirc, a fully buffed TG (not that difficult to do with this magic-heavy list) will do around 35 wounds or so, 9 of those mortals. Double that EVERY round because of Feast Day, and that is some serious damage, where even DoK might swallow now and again. LoN will have to be very careful as not to get bitten too much, I think. And 8 hours ago, swarmofseals said: Plague Monks are going to eat your lunch. ? Seriously, I think Plague Monks are going to eat EVERYBODY'S lunch for a while. It will be interesting to see what other armies do against 160+ meatgrinders, one-drop, 6++ save monks with 7 attacks each on 3+/3+, with extra damage and rend on 6s. Add the nasty new spell of the Corruptor against horde, and I think you have a winner there. So in general, like I said, I agree with most of your points, just not sure if FEC can mitigate them in any meaningful way, and think FEC will probably going to be a strong 1.5 tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 After playing Gristlegore list I can definetly see why you are looking at Feast Day and I see that "vanilla" FEC are really good, but there is something I noticed with gristlegore that is was very helpful, additional wound rolls on a hit roll of 6 where saving my ass because 2 games out of 3 my monsters where debuffed to hit worse and I still pulled tons of damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadkitten Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Gristlegore seems to just be all in Aggro whereas the vanilla lists seem a bit more Mid-range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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