Coyote Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 A Benefit - having 4 different “waves” to be able to charge with Plague Monks - and taking multiple Bringers of the Word for “free” shot at MW. PM are best on the charge, and when they die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, Coyote said: A Benefit - having 4 different “waves” to be able to charge with Plague Monks - and taking multiple Bringers of the Word for “free” shot at MW. PM are best on the charge, and when they die. But if you can only attack with 10 at a time it makes no sense having the 2" range, or the +1 to hit/wound From a purely math hammer calculation 1x40 will probably do more damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 It's even worse than the rumours. Each battleline can be reinforced twice, but counts as 2 of your 4 reinforcements, although this snippet does not state how many reinforcements you can have. We can only hope that horde armies are allowed more than others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said: It's even worse than the rumours. Each battleline can be reinforced twice, but counts as 2 of your 4 reinforcements, although this snippet does not state how many reinforcements you can have. We can only hope that horde armies are allowed more than others There another leak floating around with the reinforcements rules: 0-1 for 750 points, 0-2 for 1000, 0-3 for 1500, 0-4 for 2000 and 0-6 for 3000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) NOTE: Behemoth listed is battleline....behemot is 0-4 in 2k battle..I think it was. Edited June 10, 2021 by Darkhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Only 4 so...big oof for hordes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verminlord Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) I don't think it's that bad actually. If we can reinforce clanrats 4 times their min size is 20 so we can have 4 units of 40 rats, or 2 of 60 (maximums are gone). Now we obviously want to use one or two of those reinforcements on some non battleline, but I could see one unit of 60 or 40 and several min size screens. Remember points are almost certainly going up across the board so everyone will be playing with less models anyways. Will depend on unit minimums though; I assume all the minimums will be tweaked in the ghb. All I can say is I hope clanrats stay 20 min and stormvermin go up to 20 min. Edited June 11, 2021 by Verminlord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 My first reaction is this seems unnecessary and complicated. I’d question myself and say, relax let’s see - except the double turn is also returning, unnecessary and complicated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Coyote said: My first reaction is this seems unnecessary and complicated. I’d question myself and say, relax let’s see - except the double turn is also returning, unnecessary and complicated. I dont get the changes. They are just adding layers of complex ****** on top of everything. All these rules do is further restrict list building. Soon there will be only one way to build a list thats effective per faction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 21 minutes ago, Malakithe said: I dont get the changes. They are just adding layers of complex ****** on top of everything. All these rules do is further restrict list building. Soon there will be only one way to build a list thats effective per faction. Back to the 8th edition fantasy😂. now I just wonder if stormvermins will be available in units of 20 in their new min. size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 46 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: now I just wonder if stormvermins will be available in units of 20 in their new min. size And monks / giant rats ... but yes, unless they change our min size to 20, our only horde unit is clanrats, and if they change us to min size 10 then we’re a horde army without any effective hordes. Time to start building my moulder list again. Monsters might just be the way forward 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) Ok, I think I kind of get what’s going on sort of with these changes. If you squint your eyes and look hard it might be an updated version of the WHFB version of Core, Special and Rare slots based on army size. Since Skaven as the Best Chaos we are pretty much 4 armies based on our General. This is my conjecture- Different General, different Battleline choices - right? When - say Giant Rats - are Battleline under Moulder - they’ll have (whatever) reinforcements they get as Battleline, otherwise they’ll have the reinforcements of non-Battleline. Same for Clanrats. Otherwise we’ll need an extensive rewrite for our rules. Edited June 11, 2021 by Coyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) On 6/11/2021 at 8:32 AM, Cosmicsheep said: And monks / giant rats ... but yes, unless they change our min size to 20, our only horde unit is clanrats, and if they change us to min size 10 then we’re a horde army without any effective hordes. Time to start building my moulder list again. Monsters might just be the way forward 😂 - i was not aware of the leak that a doubly reinforced unit counts as two - Well then... Edited June 12, 2021 by DocKeule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, DocKeule said: - i was not aware of the leak that a doubly reinforced unit counts as two - Well then... I saw that somewhere on the rumours thread, but the official release yesterday does seem to read that 0-4 UNITS can be reinforced. So fingers crossed 🤞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) I don't normally write battle reports, but i had a couple of games against OBR last night using the new rules from Broken Realms, so i thought i'd update you on how i thought they performed. 1st Game - Blades Edge - 1250pts Spoiler OBR: Stalliarch Lords Liege-Kavalas Soulmason Boneshaper 20 x Mortek Guard 5 x Deathriders 5 x Deathriders Kavalos Lance Battalion Bone-tithe spell Spoiler Skaven Master Moulder - General - Hordemaster -Rabid Crown Warlock Engineer 40 x Clanrats 20 x Clanrats Warp Cannon 6 x Rat Ogors - Toughened Sinews Warp Grinder 2 x Warp Fire Thrower I place 20 clanrats tunneling with the warp grinder. He finishes his drops first thanks to the batallion and elects to go first. He buffs the right hand unit of deathriders for +1 hit and re-roll 1s (or something similar) His legion allows +3 move and run+charge and he moves both units of death riders towards the clanrats and rat ogors, liege follows up behind. Mortek guard and wizards move up the right hand flank. The left hand unit of deathriders charge into the clanrats but the right hand (buffed) unit fail their charge, much to the delight of the rat ogor unit. I lose 7 or 8 clanrats and cause 2 wounds to the deathriders. He scores 1 point having finished his moves away from the objectives. My turn 1, i pop up the grinder and 20 clanrats. Unfortunately i can't get close enough to his mortek guard because of the wizards to get my warp fire thrower in range. I flame the soulmason instead for 1 MW. WLC also targets the soulmason and does a massive 12 MW (overcharge, rolled a 1) and loses 1 wound itself. I elect not to charge the rat ogors into the buffed unit of deathriders hoping to get the double turn (which i now realise was pointless since his buffs last until his next hero phase anyway !!) Forogot to un-hide the 2nd flamer in my unit of 40 clanrats, but do so at the end of the charge phase placing it more than 3" away from the deathriders. Clanrats take a bit more damage and kill off 2 deathriders. I score 5 points He wins turn 2 and charges his liege into the rat ogors and charges the other deathriders into my WLC. The mortek guard charge into the 20 clanrats + flamer holding his 2 objectives. WLC survives with 1 wound remaining thanks to the cunning skill of the crew. The unit of 20 clanrats take 19 wounds and the remaining 1 flees, but again the cunning of the weapon team leaves them with 1 wound remaining. The rat ogors and clanrats trade blows with the liege and deathriders. The 4+ save and 6 wounds is really helping keep the rat ogors on the table. He scores 3 points My turn 2. I overcharge the flamer and kill 17 of the 20 mortek and manage not to self-destruct. The other flamer kills 1 deathrider. WLC can only target the deathriders and does 9 MW and promptly explodes. The rat ogors finish off the liege. I score 3 points. 8-4 to Skaven He wins turn again and brings back 3 mortek from the dead.The left hand death rider seeing imminent defeat retreats towards his own objectives. The right hand death riders kill the engineer. My turn 3 and my flamer hunts down and kills the fleeing deathrider, the rat ogors charge and kill the last of the other deathriders. He concedes. Major victory for the skaven. Still having time left to play we decided to have another quick game at 1000pts, no objectives. He loses the battalion and the boneshaper. I run a pure moulder army of: Grey Seer, Master Moulder, 6 x Rat Ogors, 40 x Giant Rats, 3 x packmasters and a hell pit. I give the hell pit the toughened sinews and try the Insanely Rabid on the rat ogors. He finishes his drops first again but allows me to go first. I fail death frenzy on the giant rats and move everything up trying to keep the hell pit behind the rats. He moves everything up and charges everything. 2 units of deathriders into the rat ogors, the mortek into the rats and the liege rolls a massive charge to make it into the hell pit. The mortek delete around 15 rats so i clear space to pile the hell pit into the mortek while keep base contact with the liege. I take out half the mortek with the avalanche of flesh and the remaining attacks take 4 off the liege. On the other side of the board he kills off 3 rat ogors and i take 3 deathriders with them. I win the double turn (for once) and kill another 3 deathriders, the liege and the remaining mortek. He concedes. On the whole i think i'll stick with the warp fire throwers and think on a larger playing field i would get the tunneling rats in range of larger units. As for the moulder mutations, i think i'll be sticking with toughened sinews for now. That seems to turn rat ogors into tanks Edited June 12, 2021 by Cosmicsheep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 51 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said: I saw that somewhere on the rumours thread, but the official release yesterday does seem to read that 0-4 UNITS can be reinforced. So fingers crossed 🤞 The leak seems legit. All in all it does not change too much so far. We could still run up to four units of 40 clanrats. Few players will be running more at the moment. I could still run my 3x40 clanrats + 6 Stormfiends for example. The main losers are those units who are not battleline in a mixed-clan list. Fiends will do OK in units of 3 but monks, giant rats, gutter runners etc. will have a hard time without the buffs for 30+ models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, DocKeule said: Fiends will do OK in units of 3 but monks, giant rats, gutter runners etc. will have a hard time without the buffs for 30+ models. I’m definitely going to be leaning towards my rat ogors more. They have no penalties for running MSU as the packmasters ability is area wide rather than unit and they never benefited from overwhelming mass. Glad I have 12 of them 😁 A bit gutted that I bought another 6 jezzails though. Never going to be able to run units of 12 again, and even 9 seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalvan Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Hi guys, I'm a new player, so far we're playing in a group of four friends, using proxies to test armies to decide what we like. I played only Skaven so far, since I love the mad science feel of Skryre (don't really like Pestilens or Eshin though). The other army I'm considering, but I am yet to try, are the Disciples of Tzeentch, as strong magic is another theme that I really like. My first list was Warpcog Convocation and was frankly terrible (3x3 stormfiends for battleline, two of which has grinderfists... Rattlegauge Warplock, and whyrlblade threshik with a doomwheel and two doomflayers). I got destroyed by a Lumineth list focusing on Teclis, though I did make an insane amount of mistakes (deepstriking with only a part of the army, not dividing ranged attacks of my stormfiends and shooting them all on Light of Eltharion, not knowing that this model divides weapon damage by 2, rerolling movement on the Doomwheel with the Vial of the Fulminator, which caused my opponent to incorrectly move the model outside the battlefield, killing it - I later checked he couldn't have done that). Then I tried a no-battalion list, got demolished but a Kharadron alpha strike that removed 700 points worth of the army before they had chance to move, including the only warlock with Skryre buffs (the other hero was a Grey Seer general with skitterleap). This list however beat the fourth player who brought an OBR cavalry list with Arkhan. When Kragnos dropped and I learned of the new Hidden Weapon Teams trait I decided to give it a try, as it really sounds awesome. This is the list below and I would be grateful for any and all feedback you could provide on it. The list did some work against my lumineth opponent, but a few things went wrong and decided the outcome of the game. First of all, I buffed my 6 stormfiends and teleported them into a shooting position through a gnawhole. I wanted to skitterleap my arch-warlock or bombardier close to my warp-grinding clanrats, but the casting roll wasn't very good and the spell was unbound by a unit of sentinels. This caused the Stormfiends to not receive the warpstone spark damage buff, making his archer units survive. the 2 warpfire throwers weren't optimally placed due to how he positioned his army - they still did very good damage, just not that devastating. And I didn't get Teclis in range to try and delete him. Since his list is 3 drops, protection of Teclis also mitigated lots of damage. Still, if I got a double turn, my army would utterly decimate his once a warlock would get in range of the Stormfiends. This didn't happen, we both rolled sixes on a roll-off, and next turn all my firepower was basically decimated by spells, shooting and combat. That felt terrible. The unique spell of Teclis was especially devastating since he centered it on the spell portal and hit the entire army, all I was left with were my heroes, some clanrats (he one-shot a 39-rat unit with a horde killing spell, it rolled 16 damage on 5+, the rest ran since I failed the skitterleap and couldn't use the command ability). How do you guys deal with this feeling when one or two rolls determine the outcome of the game, essentially rendering lots of decisions unimportant? Though I guess maybe i should have waited longer with the deepstrike and held back since I didn't have the support for the Stormfiends and clanrats, but on the other hand that would mean eating more spells from Teclis through the spell portal and taking 40 shots from sentinels buffed by power of hysh... Surprise Dakka (HTML) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Well it is a dice game and sometimes it comes down to just that one roll. Skaven in particular are a hit or miss army that is not really made to be played defensively. With them it will often come down to you either achieving what you planned and win shortly after or you come short and once you are on your back foot in my experience you don't recover too often with this army (not to mention if you blow yourself up playing Skryre). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 So with the new prayers (curse - target an enemy every 6 to hit deals a MW in addition) combined with 25mm clanrats I'm thinking we could deal a lot of damage. Not to mention the new spells like +1 wound or fly, really benefit our verminlord. Skaven seem like they might not have come out of this edition change too badly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Red King said: So with the new prayers (curse - target an enemy every 6 to hit deals a MW in addition) combined with 25mm clanrats I'm thinking we could deal a lot of damage. Not to mention the new spells like +1 wound or fly, really benefit our verminlord. Skaven seem like they might not have come out of this edition change too badly. No they really haven’t. depending, if stormvermins, plague monks and giant rats will be available in min. size units of 20, this edition might be exceptionally fantastic for them. the only sad part is, that mystic shield and all out defence, will never be a workable buff for our clanrats and Stormvermins Edited June 14, 2021 by Skreech Verminking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said: No they really haven’t. depending, if stormvermins, plague monks and giant rats will be available in min. size units of 20, this edition might be exceptionally fantastic for them. the only sad part is, that mystic shield and all out defence, will never be a workable buff for our clanrats and Stormvermins I forgot about rallying 40 clanrats though so there's also that. I also want to slap the +1 wound artifact on the verminlord warbringer plus the flaming sword spell and he might actually put out a lot of damage. Not to mention he can heal now too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, The Red King said: I forgot about rallying 40 clanrats though so there's also that. I also want to slap the +1 wound artifact on the verminlord warbringer plus the flaming sword spell and he might actually put out a lot of damage. Not to mention he can heal now too. Yeah, he really could put out a lot of damage. I might have to try some stuff out. I’m just a bit sad that our clawlords, currently aren’t able to take any mighty warlord traits because of the new rule limitations. hopefully, this will be faqed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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