AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Bregor]

I will say, from the reactions in my LGS messenger group, it looks like pretty much everyone went up. I know pretty much everything I run in DoT got more expensive (except Horrors, but if we're reading right they got hit rules-wise).

[Darkhan]

17 minutes ago, Bregor said:

I will say, from the reactions in my LGS messenger group, it looks like pretty much everyone went up. I know pretty much everything I run in DoT got more expensive (except Horrors, but if we're reading right they got hit rules-wise).

You lost changehost tho for 180 points, so kinda evens it out?;p

[Bregor]

9 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

You lost changehost tho for 180 points, so kinda evens it out?;p

Well, I didn't, because I run exclusively Arcanites, but I get your point   (also I did kind of say that in a way that would mean I run Horrors normally, so E on my part)

[Coyote]

My most recent list from last week is now 2525 pts in 3. Ed

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, Coyote said:

My most recent list from last week is now 2525 pts in 3. Ed

Wow what were you running lol

[Coyote]

18 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Wow what were you running lol

I had 4 Bells, x3 units 40 Clanrats, 1x40 Plague Monks, 1 Plague Priest and a Burning Head and a CP

[Malakithe]

1 minute ago, Coyote said:

I had 4 Bells, x3 units 40 Clanrats, 1x40 Plague Monks, 1 Plague Priest and a Burning Head and a CP

Yikes. Time to trim the fat a bit lol or just start from scratch

[Bregor]

N/m, just realized this list is illegal. Don't post while half asleep, apparently. Whoops!

Edited June 18, 2021 by Bregor

[Skreech Verminking]

So what are your guys thoughts on this list?:

Command entourage:545p

heroes:545p

1Verminlord Warpseer:335p.                  spell: flaming weapons

1plague priest:85p.                                      Prayer: heal; artefacts: liber bubonicus

1Warlock bombardier:125p.                               Spell: more more warppower; artefact: amulet of destiny; Warordtrait: Overseer of destruction.

Battleline:910p

60Clanrats:390p                                                 spears and shields.

40clanrats:260p.                                       hand weapons and shields

40clanrats:260p.                                             hand weapons and shields

others:520p

3x1 warpfire thrower weapon teams: 210p

3x1 Rattling gun weapon teams: 195p

1 Warpgrinder weapon team: 75p

6 giant rats: 40p

Total points:1975p

My thoughts: with man units decrease on size and increase in points, I went for a more hordy army.

(Although clanrats having gone up in points, quite a lot (considering that 200 of them for 1000points seems impossible  currently))

 

for damage dealing, I went with warpfire throwers and and ratting guns.

Rattlings may not be the greatest yet with overseer of destruction they should do a good amount of damage to any enemy.

Sadly stormfiends went up in points as well, which makes it diffcult for me to choose either a unit of 6 of them or a 140clanrats.

Witht the amulet of destiny, my warlord, should be able to survive a good mortal wound spanking from any slaan mage, or archers (i hope)

and with heal on the priest this will allow me to heal him back up, or just any of my heroes.

with liber bubonicus that priest will or should be able to pray twice per turn, unless of course, the new rule even overwrites artefact allowing something likewise (hoping for an faq at this point for clarification)

Well should he be able to pray twice pee turn, this will also allow him to put a 6 up ward save on my unit of 60 rats

Edited June 18, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[shalvan]

Looks decent, but very glass-cannon. Are you going for an alpha strike with the engineer jumping through the gnawhole to get in range of the three ratlings? The MMMWP is kinda wasted since you don't have a target for it before shooting. With no skitterleap you don't really have a way to bring more points to the fight, and the weapon teams tend to just die, especially when hit by things such as Teclis's unique spell.

I am really unhappy with the point changes. The two armies I'm most interested in - Skaven and DoT mortals - got huge point increases to the units I like most, including Stormfiends (over 20%), and Kairic acolytes (25% up, when it was the Daemon side that was a problem). I love the Doomwheel too and I don't think the point increase was justifiable on a model that didn't really see any play...

Would going for 9 Stormfiends unit with two units of 10 acolytes make any sense? No hidden weapon teams shenanigans whatsoever though, as you can only hide them in a mixed army. Still, a highly buffed unit of 9 stormfiends with vigordust, MMMWP and a spark should put out insane damage. The army wouldn't have screening though and it's putting all eggs in one basket, as those 9 Stormfiends are pretty much half the army at 945 points.

Edited June 18, 2021 by shalvan

[Skreech Verminking]

37 minutes ago, shalvan said:

Looks decent, but very glass-cannon. Are you going for an alpha strike with the engineer jumping through the gnawhole to get in range of the three ratlings? The MMMWP is kinda wasted since you don't have a target for it before shooting. With no skitterleap you don't really have a way to bring more points to the fight, and the weapon teams tend to just die, especially when hit by things such as Teclis's unique spell.

I am really unhappy with the point changes. The two armies I'm most interested in - Skaven and DoT mortals - got huge point increases to the units I like most, including Stormfiends (over 20%), and Kairic acolytes (25% up, when it was the Daemon side that was a problem). I love the Doomwheel too and I don't think the point increase was justifiable on a model that didn't really see any play...

Would going for 9 Stormfiends unit with two units of 10 acolytes make any sense? No hidden weapon teams shenanigans whatsoever though, as you can only hide them in a mixed army. Still, a highly buffed unit of 9 stormfiends with vigordust, MMMWP and a spark should put out insane damage. The army wouldn't have screening though and it's putting all eggs in one basket, as those 9 Stormfiends are pretty much half the army at 945 points.

Yeah I’m not to happy of the points changes either.

especially  the unit size of stormvermins and plague monks, the kept at ten.

I really was hoping that those guys would up to twenty, with a cap of only being able to be reinforced ones.

as for my list, I’m not really interested in an alpha strike.

the idea with the warpgrinder is to basically put a huge unit of 60 or 40 clanrats with a warpflamer in it on an objective.

I have no use for dealing damage as fast as possible, this army was basically written to hold objectives, which would force my enemy to engage, in which case my flamers or rattling guns would be able to give rhe rest to them.

against lumineth, this strategy will work in particularly great.

[Cosmicsheep]

For those interested in the points increases i have calculated the %increase for each unit/size

The biggest losers are the clanrats (mainly due to the horde bonus being removed) the plague furnace and the stormfiends

Interesting that the warp-grinder and master moulder have gone down in price though

Name-Qty	Cost	New Points	Inc %
Thanquol	390	405	4%
Screaming Bell	240	265	10%
Grey Seer	140	140	0%
Clawlord	100	105	5%
Master Moulder	100	95	-5%
Arch Warlock	160	175	9%
Warlock Engineer	110	125	14%
Bombadier	120	125	4%
Deathmaster	100	115	15%
Plague Priest	80	85	6%
Plague Furnace	200	245	23%
Lord Skreech Verminking	320	330	3%
Verminlord Warpseer	320	335	5%
Verminlord Deceiver	320	345	8%
Verminlord Corruptor	280	285	2%
Verminlord Warbringer	280	305	9%
Clanrats-20	120	130	8%
Clanrats-40	200	260	30%
Stormvermin-10	100	110	10%
Stormvermin-20	200	220	10%
Stormvermin-30	300	330	10%
Stormvermin-40	400	N/A
Night Runners-10	80	85	6%
Night Runners-20	160	170	6%
Night Runners-30	240	255	6%
Night Runners-40	280	N/A
Gutter Runners-5	60	65	8%
Gutter Runners-10	120	130	8%
Gutter Runners-15	180	195	8%
Gutter Runners-20	200	N/A
Plague Monks-10	80	85	6%
Plague Monks-20	160	170	6%
Plague Monks-30	240	255	6%
Plague Monks-40	280	N/A
Rat Ogres-2	90	95	6%
Rat Ogres-4	180	190	6%
Rat Ogres-6	270	285	6%
Jezzails-3	140	145	4%
Jezzails-6	280	290	4%
Jezzails-9	420	N/A
Jezzails-12	560	N/A
Stormfiends-3	260	315	21%
Stormfiends-6	520	630	21%
Warp Lightning Cannon	180	185	3%
Warpfire Thrower	70	70	0%
Warp Grinder	80	75	-6%
Giant Rats-10	60	N/A
Giant Rats-20	120	N/A
Giant Rats-30	180	N/A
Giant Rats-40	200	N/A
Giant Rats-6		40
Giant Rats-12		80
Giant Rats-18		120
Packmasters-3	60	60	0%
Packmasters-6	120	120	0%
Hellpit Abomination	220	240	9%
Rat Swarm-2	60	60	0%
Rat Swarm-4	120	120	0%
Plague Claw	150	160	7%
Doomwheel	150	165	10%
Doom Flayer	60	60	0%
Plague Censer-5	60	65	8%
Plague Censer-10	120	130	8%
Plague Censer-15	180	195	8%
Plague Censer-20	240	N/A
Ratling Gun	60	65	8%
Acolytes-5	60	65	8%
Acolytes-10	120	130	8%
Acolytes-15	180	195	8%
Acolytes-20	200	N/A

[Yes-yes warpstone]

Hey guys! I'm a recent new entry in this amazing crazy rats world, restarting aos during this covid year and now I have a decent army. 

I'm really disappointed by this changes. I really liked playing skaven, they were a strategic army with a lot of complexity on board. Now I feel like we passed from lists where needed some strategic play style to an "only clanrats can be played", send them in the middle and die in cac since our battle line deals 0 damage every game... 

Do we want to talk about "you army has bravery 2 because every 10 models get +2, ohhh plague monks max bravery now is 4"...

Want to talk about "Skaven strenght is numbers" and now 100 rats seems impossible. Oh right 10 skinks only 75, really smart they are equal to clanrats but skink shoot too...

Well now that I've cryed enough let's see what could be our best army composition. I think clanrats is the only way we can deal damage in cac now, all other units for they points cost and restriction with unit size feel like trash. I think we just can't anymore afford to spend points on an unit like monks for have a cac hammer cause we need those points for something that shoot. 

Stormfiend with new rules are great but they points cost make them really hard to fit. Do you think jezzail are still better? I think no cause jezzail now are useless target for MMWP but on the other side they are great on shooting on enemy charge phase. 

With the points increase also I think pieces like ratling gun became much much worst cause probably can't afford too of models that dies alone. Like WLC i think right now is fine but are 185 points that t2 died alone and seems like a waste of points to me. 

I'm not sure about warpfire thrower, seems great to menace an opponent that wants to charge clanrats sitting on objective but with a lot less models on other sides i think depends on the meta. 

(I'm focusing only on our "best possible" composition for find a good list for start to learn the new edition) 

 

 

 

[Cosmicsheep]

6 minutes ago, Yes-yes warpstone said:

Do you think jezzail are still better? I think no cause jezzail now are useless target for MMWP but on the other side they are great on shooting on enemy charge phase. 

Having MMWP on jezzails is still viable.... it lasts until YOUR next hero phase, and so is still active in your opponents turn... especially useful if he gets the double turn. And they've only gone up by 5 pts.

7 minutes ago, Yes-yes warpstone said:

now 100 rats seems impossible

It's still possible to run 3x40 clanrats and now possible to run 2x60. Far from impossible

9 minutes ago, Yes-yes warpstone said:

can't anymore afford to spend points on an unit like monks for have a cac hammer

Don't forget our Rat Ogors have the new moulder mutations from Broken Realms, and with the reduction in cost of the master moulder they are still a viable option. A 4+ save with 6 wounds is great for 95 pts

 

This whole season seems aimed at monsters, which is something that Skaven do very well. With Thanquol, Verminlords and Hell Pits it's quite easy to run a 4 monster army

[Yes-yes warpstone]

9 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

This whole season seems aimed at monsters, which is something that Skaven do very well. With Thanquol, Verminlords and Hell Pits it's quite easy to run a 4 monster army

our monsters got a lot this season, and thanquol maybe could be a competitive piece now. Same for warpseer. The main problem with thanquol is his bravery 7 now 😬

About that I think warpseer is a great piece right now, but he disappointed so much during games that until I tried it again I don't trust in it 😂

Anyway yes is possible to fit a lot of clanrats but you will not have enough points unfortunately for support them and add to your list some pieces that deal damage

I have to say guys, doesn't matter what the  GW want to do with new edition but clanrats I think should have been decrease by cost and not the opposite. 

My think about jezzail is that: they didn't got increase and personally I found in 2.9 they where our best unit, I usually played a unit of 12 and with our stuff one shot whatever I faced every turn. But with a unit of 6, the magic is good anyway like @Cosmicsheep said, but d3 MW to them in a unit of 6 in a lot i think, and there is also the point thay you can have only +1 modifier to save (so only 5+ save for 2 wound mow). For this reasons a think 6 stormfiend now are better than 6x2 jezzail. Maybe I'm making the mistake of considering jezzail only on 12 but a single unit of 6 I think is not worth, it has not the dmg to one shot 800 pts models. 

Any other ideas/opinions? 

(Like I sayed I'm trying to figure out our best and not what I prefer play at least for the moment) 

[Congratz]

Atm i think it’s best to go full Skryre it seems... Mixed Clans does not seem worth it  

 

poor horde armies  dont really like the whole MSU thing... 

 

SoB does Sound tempting tho  

[Darkhan]

46 minutes ago, Congratz said:

Atm i think it’s best to go full Skryre it seems... Mixed Clans does not seem worth it  

 

poor horde armies  dont really like the whole MSU thing... 

 

SoB does Sound tempting tho  

Thinking of doing that. Lots of 5x unit acolytes as screen. Since you can have them 1" apart as well.
 Your whole army is a big cage of Unleash Hell potential. 9x stormfiends, or 2x6.

Doomwheels, cannons etc.

60x clanrats with a warp grinder stacked up with weapon teams also looks fun. But always loved Skryre.

[Cosmicsheep]

12 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

60x clanrats with a warp grinder stacked up with weapon teams also looks fun.

Ooooohhh... i'm just imagining popping up 60 clanrats,  26" across (to be wholly within 13" of the grinder), 9" away from the enemy and then popping out 6 warpfire throwers 3" infront. Carnage !! 

[Darkhan]

3 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Ooooohhh... i'm just imagining popping up 60 clanrats,  26" across (to be wholly within 13" of the grinder), 9" away from the enemy and then popping out 6 warpfire throwers 3" infront. Carnage !! 

One guy posted this scenario I never thought of:
Fun fact, the warpfire thrower teams can pop up within 6.1" of an ironclad right. Now that you can shoot at the ironclad, you can choose to shoot all the guys inside since they ALL count as being in range. Sweet you just toasted an entire unit of 5-15 (135-405pts worth) thunderers with a 75pts unit. Then destroy the 490 Ironclad with (195pts worth) 3 Ratling Guns.

[Cosmicsheep]

@Darkhan oh yessss, i had already thought of that too. I have a friend who plays KO

[Skreech Verminking]

10 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Ooooohhh... i'm just imagining popping up 60 clanrats,  26" across (to be wholly within 13" of the grinder), 9" away from the enemy and then popping out 6 warpfire throwers 3" infront. Carnage !! 

Basically my thoughts and strategy to counter seraphon skinks spamm (2x30) and lumineth

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

One guy posted this scenario I never thought of:
Fun fact, the warpfire thrower teams can pop up within 6.1" of an ironclad right. Now that you can shoot at the ironclad, you can choose to shoot all the guys inside since they ALL count as being in range. Sweet you just toasted an entire unit of 5-15 (135-405pts worth) thunderers with a 75pts unit. Then destroy the 490 Ironclad with (195pts worth) 3 Ratling Guns.

Yep, that is exactly how it works, and with the new weapon teams rules, this’ll be a lot of fun

[The Red King]

I'll absolutely be hiding warpfires in my clanrats now and the thought of using unleash hell on a 4fire thanqoul is hilarious. 

 

Does anyone know the points on our endless spells I cant find a screenshot that iant clipped off.

 

Edit: found it. Bell 85, tide 80, WLV 90

Edited June 18, 2021 by The Red King

[shalvan]

Yeah, I also thought of this, since I have a KO player who runs Zilfin with an Ironclad filled with 20 thunderers and an aether-khemist with a Warp Lightning Vortex in a Bottle. The thing is that it's pretty hard to actually kill the Ironclad in one turn with its 3+ save and rerolls from spent aethergold. Now the triumphs are different, so perhaps it will be doable. Still, remember that each subsequent warpfire thrower will roll fewer dice, so deleting the 2-wound thunderers might not be possible. I'm not positive 3 ratlings can reliably (xD) take down an Ironclad. We're talking 6d6*2, or 42 attacks. All three will optimally reroll hits, but to wound stays the same, which means 3/4 hits, 1/2 wounds, which means 16 wounding hits at -1. Ironclad will surely get+1 to saves to stay at 3+, so we get 5 attacks in for 10 damage total. We need lots of luck on the rolls to kill the ship.

[Verminlord]

I think skaven are in a great spot and have a ton of viable strategies. I will post some lists later, but just wanted to say THE RATS ARE BACK BABY