Skreech Verminking Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Red King said: I mean they look decent but they're more expensive than bestigors who aren't that great and at max size are more expensive than Mortek Guard and not a single soul would compare the two. I love stormvermin but they need more love. Yeah. I would love to see a points drop to 400 for 40 Stormvermins. although I hope that that isn’t the only thing should gw consider giving the skaven some love in the future with points drops. there are a few units like doom flayers (which could probably use a warcsroll update rather then points) , to the assasins and other heroes like the plague priest and Clawlord, till we hit units like giant rats, ratsswarms, Gutter runners, and plague censer bearers, which are all more or less in need for a a juicy point drop. Edited March 27, 2020 by Skreech Verminking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 10 hours ago, The Red King said: I mean they look decent but they're more expensive than bestigors who aren't that great and at max size are more expensive than Mortek Guard and not a single soul would compare the two. I love stormvermin but they need more love. I definitely think they need to drop to 340-380 to be considered by anyone. They can be blenders, especially now that Monks aren't nearly as good as they were. I don't particularly like comparing units between armies though, at least in terms of points; stuff is generally supposed to be balanced around the army and what buffs are available to it. You could stack Stormvermin with some extra attacks and that block of 40 can easily get 30+ models in range and be going into combat with 3\2\-1\1 I would easily make them fit into lists if they were closer to that 350 price point.. but until that happens or they get better stats to balance their cost, I don't see that ever happening which is a shame since they're nice models. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Gwendar said: I definitely think they need to drop to 340-380 to be considered by anyone. They can be blenders, especially now that Monks aren't nearly as good as they were. I don't particularly like comparing units between armies though, at least in terms of points; stuff is generally supposed to be balanced around the army and what buffs are available to it. You could stack Stormvermin with some extra attacks and that block of 40 can easily get 30+ models in range and be going into combat with 3\2\-1\1 I would easily make them fit into lists if they were closer to that 350 price point.. but until that happens or they get better stats to balance their cost, I don't see that ever happening which is a shame since they're nice models. Yea is hard to compare units as have different roles to fulfill . I think the monk change was needed tho just to clean warscroll up. Now they are a good unit but not insane . Have thought bout pairing with warp grinder tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Well Stormvermins in comparison are basically witch elves, with just a worse save and less defensive powers if we include both allegiance rules. so comparing both of those pointsvalue I really think that Gwendar is more or less right eith his point prediction 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Just done converting 5 acolytes. Elite of the elite! Equiped with the latest in skryre tech😂 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On 3/25/2020 at 1:25 AM, Skreech Verminking said: You mean grinderfist overcharge, to be more them 6away from Enemys instead of 9 Grinderfist overcharge: take D3 immediately as they rush the drilling but instead of 9'' away, 2D6''. Boom. Done and Fun. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronnelg Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On 3/28/2020 at 3:30 AM, Gwendar said: I definitely think they need to drop to 340-380 to be considered by anyone. They can be blenders, especially now that Monks aren't nearly as good as they were. I don't particularly like comparing units between armies though, at least in terms of points; stuff is generally supposed to be balanced around the army and what buffs are available to it. You could stack Stormvermin with some extra attacks and that block of 40 can easily get 30+ models in range and be going into combat with 3\2\-1\1 I would easily make them fit into lists if they were closer to that 350 price point.. but until that happens or they get better stats to balance their cost, I don't see that ever happening which is a shame since they're nice models. Oh man! 350... That would be awesome! I played a game with a friend where I charged a stardrake with 40 stormvermin buffed by a clawlord. 118 attacks at 3\2\-1\1. Even a Stardrake at 16 wounds and 3+ armor save rerolling 1s didn't survive. (I think it would have had it been 2+ save RR1s, which is achievable with the stardrake). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) I love the model of stormvermins, id really like to get some and include them but yeah the points hurt I just bought the endless spells and gnawholes, now I'm putting purchases on hold for a while unless I find a Thanquol or stormvermins for cheap. I spent so much on AoS skavens in the last 2 weeks and I don't even get to play with what is going on right now lol Edited March 30, 2020 by Malakhov 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 8 hours ago, gronnelg said: Oh man! 350... That would be awesome! I played a game with a friend where I charged a stardrake with 40 stormvermin buffed by a clawlord. 118 attacks at 3\2\-1\1. Even a Stardrake at 16 wounds and 3+ armor save rerolling 1s didn't survive. (I think it would have had it been 2+ save RR1s, which is achievable with the stardrake). I'm still not sure if I would personally run them at that price but I would at least be keen to try them then. So long as I could still get at least 3 threats in then I would love to run them as the main melee threat and I would get another hero to boot (Clawlord is mandatory in my opinion) which is great for various reasons. 30 Stormvermin swinging with +1 attack and +1 hit\wound is ~33 damage on average vs a 4+. You throw in RR 1's and you bump that to nearly 40.. being on 25's makes it easier to get more than 30 in of course but I say 30 for the sake of a poor charge I dunno, I may proxy 40 in the future just for the hell of it but I don't see myself fitting it. Until my FLGS' open back up then I'm stuck at home painting my CoS, Fyreslayers, SW:Legion and KoW stuff and I can only theory-craft so long without losing my mind by not getting to actually play 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 All this theory crafting at home, anyone came up with any cool army lists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Twh30 said: All this theory crafting at home, anyone came up with any cool army lists? Cool lists, lets see. we have the doom brigade: Allegiance: Skaventide LEADERS Skallog the Mad (120) Warlock Bombardier - Artefact : Vial of the Fulminator - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power! Grey Seer Sniketrikk (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell - General - Command Trait : Master of Magic - Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy Skaa bloodtail, right claw of clan Mors (100) Clawlord - Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Savage Overlord UNITS The black furred Gnawers of the deepwarrens (200) 40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade The red death (280) 40 x Plague Monks - Foetid Blades The Messenger of Doom (160) 1 x Doomwheel The Doomseeker (160) 1 x Doomwheel 1 x Doomwheel (160) Skalks backstabbering Backstabbers (120) 20 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade The red Guard (450) 40 x Stormvermin - Halberd & Shield TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 187 LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 4/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400 the Screaming doom: Allegiance: Skaventide - Mortal Realm: Chamon LEADERS Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) UNITS 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades 30 x Plague Monks (240) - Foetid Blades TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 222 LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 4/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ALLIES: 0/400 the laughter of doooom!: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersWarlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeArtilleryWarplock Jezzails (420)Warplock Jezzails (420)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 146 Queeks red Guard: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersClawlord (100)Clawlord (100)Battleline40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & Shield40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & Shield40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & Shield40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & ShieldTotal: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 170 The truly a Vermintide list: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersPlague Priest (80)Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeTotal: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 385 The first act of surprise: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersDeathmaster (100)Warlock Engineer (100)Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty SpearUnits20 x Gutter Runners (200)20 x Gutter Runners (200)20 x Gutter Runners (200)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)6 x Stormfiends (520)- 01x Grinderfists1 x Warp-Grinder (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 178 The rat a mole act: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersVerminlord Deceiver (320)- Artefact: Gnawbomb Verminlord Warbringer (280)Verminlord Warbringer (280)Grey Seer (140) (with skitterleap)Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty BladeUnits40 x Plague Monks (280)- Foetid Blades2 x Rat Ogors (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 209 And last but not least we have, “Sheer Madness!!”: Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty SpearUnits1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Ratling Gun (60)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 132 edit: I hope these lists are to your liking, sadly I wasn’t able to give you the full review of every single idea i had for a list. there are just too many. Edited March 30, 2020 by Skreech Verminking 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 40 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Cool lists, lets see. we have the doom brigade: Allegiance: Skaventide LEADERS Skallog the Mad (120) Warlock Bombardier - Artefact : Vial of the Fulminator - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power! Grey Seer Sniketrikk (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell - General - Command Trait : Master of Magic - Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy Skaa bloodtail, right claw of clan Mors (100) Clawlord - Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Savage Overlord UNITS The black furred Gnawers of the deepwarrens (200) 40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade The red death (280) 40 x Plague Monks - Foetid Blades The Messenger of Doom (160) 1 x Doomwheel The Doomseeker (160) 1 x Doomwheel 1 x Doomwheel (160) Skalks backstabbering Backstabbers (120) 20 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade The red Guard (450) 40 x Stormvermin - Halberd & Shield TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 187 LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 4/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400 the Screaming doom: Allegiance: Skaventide - Mortal Realm: Chamon LEADERS Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) UNITS 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades 30 x Plague Monks (240) - Foetid Blades TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 222 LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 4/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ALLIES: 0/400 the laughter of doooom!: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersWarlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeArtilleryWarplock Jezzails (420)Warplock Jezzails (420)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 146 Queeks red Guard: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersClawlord (100)Clawlord (100)Battleline40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & Shield40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & Shield40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & Shield40 x Stormvermin (450)- Halberd & ShieldTotal: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 170 The truly a Vermintide list: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersPlague Priest (80)Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeTotal: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 385 The first act of surprise: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersDeathmaster (100)Warlock Engineer (100)Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty SpearUnits20 x Gutter Runners (200)20 x Gutter Runners (200)20 x Gutter Runners (200)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)6 x Stormfiends (520)- 01x Grinderfists1 x Warp-Grinder (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 178 The rat a mole act: Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersVerminlord Deceiver (320)- Artefact: Gnawbomb Verminlord Warbringer (280)Verminlord Warbringer (280)Grey Seer (140) (with skitterleap)Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty BladeUnits40 x Plague Monks (280)- Foetid Blades2 x Rat Ogors (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 209 And last but not least we have, “Sheer Madness!!”: Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Warlock Bombardier (120)Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty SpearUnits1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Ratling Gun (60)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 132 edit: I hope these lists are to your liking, sadly I wasn’t able to give you the full review of every single idea i had for a list. there are just too many. Haha quality like the 1 plague priest list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 @Twh30I had a few ideas for you but once again @Skreech Verminking has stole my thunder with equally fun lists. Well played. However, they failed to mention you can run FOUR doomwheels in a list. That is optimum fun right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobot Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 15 hours ago, Gwendar said: I'm still not sure if I would personally run them at that price but I would at least be keen to try them then. So long as I could still get at least 3 threats in then I would love to run them as the main melee threat and I would get another hero to boot (Clawlord is mandatory in my opinion) which is great for various reasons. 30 Stormvermin swinging with +1 attack and +1 hit\wound is ~33 damage on average vs a 4+. You throw in RR 1's and you bump that to nearly 40.. being on 25's makes it easier to get more than 30 in of course but I say 30 for the sake of a poor charge I dunno, I may proxy 40 in the future just for the hell of it but I don't see myself fitting it. Until my FLGS' open back up then I'm stuck at home painting my CoS, Fyreslayers, SW:Legion and KoW stuff and I can only theory-craft so long without losing my mind by not getting to actually play 😅 @Gwendar if you have time, care to comment on some comparison units to SV that are currently in fashion in other armies and if you have any damage output comparison info vs points etc? just asking if you have any info up your sleeve as you seem to have cool stats and charts available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 @Skreech Verminking loved the "sheer madness" list😂😂😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Apart from the main threats in our book ie stormfiends. What do people think are potential threats in there? And units we just don’t see competiveky but should do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 34 minutes ago, Twh30 said: Apart from the main threats in our book ie stormfiends. What do people think are potential threats in there? And units we just don’t see competiveky but should do? Let’s see here: threads that most people wouldn’t even conaider being one: -double deathfrenzied buffed with slavenbrew and gnash gnaw to their bomes ability clanrats. -double deathfrenzied giant rats Just plain threads: -plague monks -Stormfiends -jezzails -acolytes — Verminlord corruptor with SOJ -Hell pit abomination conveniently threads but not often used:—Stormvermins -plague censer bearers buffed by skavenbrew and near a unit of plague monks -warplightning cannons —Doom wheel -warpflamer weapon team -rattling gun weapon teams -Verminlord warbringer with the Rune blade and brutal fury command trait -Rat ogres, buffed by packmasters or master moulder’s -Clawlord on brood horror -wolf rats hilarious and unreliable threads: -Deathmaster with the three Fangs artefact -warlock bombardier on his own -warlock bombardier/engineer with the doom-sphere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Let’s see here: threads that most people wouldn’t even conaider being one: -double deathfrenzied buffed with slavenbrew and gnash gnaw to their bomes ability clanrats. -double deathfrenzied giant rats Just plain threads: -plague monks -Stormfiends -jezzails -acolytes — Verminlord corruptor with SOJ -Hell pit abomination conveniently threads but not often used:—Stormvermins -plague censer bearers buffed by skavenbrew and near a unit of plague monks -warplightning cannons —Doom wheel -warpflamer weapon team -rattling gun weapon teams -Verminlord warbringer with the Rune blade and brutal fury command trait -Rat ogres, buffed by packmasters or master moulder’s -Clawlord on brood horror -wolf rats hilarious and unreliable threads: -Deathmaster with the three Fangs artefact -warlock bombardier on his own -warlock bombardier/engineer with the doom-sphere I also thought although rubbish stats gutter runners can be a threat not for damage but backfield objective threats . Only 60 points and if your opponent using units to screen them out it’s only 60 points and they have done there job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronnelg Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 @Skreech VerminkingGood times with some of those list! Does anyone have any experience with clanrat spam? Does it work, or do the clanrats die so fast that you end up with not enough board control anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 hours ago, gronnelg said: @Skreech VerminkingGood times with some of those list! Does anyone have any experience with clanrat spam? Does it work, or do the clanrats die so fast that you end up with not enough board control anyway? You know, I wasn't spamming them but anecdotally I had 20 clanrats survive the charge of 10 chaos warriors, 5 chaos knights, and Archaon. Not because my opponent rolled poorly but because once the knights killed 13 of them I pulled so that Archaon and the warriors couldnt even swing. So I guess what I'm saying is that the trick to being "survivable" is to spread out and not be there when it comes time for your opponent to swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, gronnelg said: @Skreech VerminkingGood times with some of those list! Does anyone have any experience with clanrat spam? Does it work, or do the clanrats die so fast that you end up with not enough board control anyway? Well considering your often going to play for the objective and if you play the vermintide correctly, you opponent, doesn't matter if He plays daughters or Ironjawz, will need around 4turns to destroy your army, and till then you’ll literally just have won with victory points. ps: if your ever going to play this army against a hedonites player with his copied tournament list of 3keepers, you can bet your rats that he’ll be mad at you for the next eternity, which in the skaven language is usually 6years. Edited March 31, 2020 by Skreech Verminking 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: you can bet your rats that he’ll be mad at you for the next eternity, which in the skaven language is usually 6years. That part made me think of this AoS skaven warlord that proclaimed his rule will last thousand years (dead after 3 days). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronnelg Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 @Skreech VerminkingSo... You're saying such a list is actually good? Because I haven't seen any pros use such a list. Omg.... Can you imagine showing up at a tourney "Excuse sir, for a half an hour or two, while I deploy my 400 rats. Myes! Myesss Indeed!" I guess you kinda dependent, or rather totally dependent on going first though, because once you opponent takes the objectives, your clanrats hitting with their paper towels won't do anything. In such a situation it surely would be great if we had a retreat and charge ability, to just swarm the objectives, and take them without killing the opponent. Oh.... Wait.... But seriously though, the opponent could just screen you off the objectives. Right? ... Right? Someone stop me from buying more rats than I could ever hope to paint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 50 minutes ago, gronnelg said: @Skreech VerminkingSo... You're saying such a list is actually good? 1)Because I haven't seen any pros use such a list. 2)Omg.... Can you imagine showing up at a tourney "Excuse sir, for a half an hour or two, while I deploy my 400 rats. Myes! Myesss Indeed!" 3)I guess you kinda dependent, or rather totally dependent on going first though, because once you opponent takes the objectives, your clanrats hitting with their paper towels won't do anything. In such a situation it surely would be great if we had a retreat and charge ability, to just swarm the objectives, and take them without killing the opponent. Oh.... Wait.... 4)But seriously though, the opponent could just screen you off the objectives. Right? ... Right? Someone stop me from buying more rats than I could ever hope to paint! 1)well most pros if you call them so are mostly more interested in blasting the enemy of the table as soon as possible. and moving 400rats isn’t really that pleasant 2)nop, but I’ll probably see that face soon, considering that I’ll be having a ton of time to paint my rats. (Although I’ve already seen the reaction my friends made when they fought against that list and it was hilarious (especially against that slaanesh player that literally was only out for the win) 3) considering that most of your foes will probably be buff-led to that point of no return, I don’t think they’ll be able to think straight to be able to give you the second turn at all. another reason why most player would be much more interested in taking the second turn rather the first one, is to basically come in range with their shooting units or have a guaranty to alpha strike you immediately and gain the chance of taking the next turn. and should they still take the first turn to well take the objective from you, you really shouldn’t worry too much, since the meta has really shifted from hordes to elite, and even those more hordy armies like bonereapers ususally only field 60-80 of their more hordy infanterie units. with almost 400bpdies, and the possibility to retreat and charge there is literally no way for your opponent to keep you from those objective 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Nikobot said: @Gwendar if you have time, care to comment on some comparison units to SV that are currently in fashion in other armies and if you have any damage output comparison info vs points etc? just asking if you have any info up your sleeve as you seem to have cool stats and charts available Well, that's the thing; I don't like to make those comparisons. Units are balanced for what they do within an army\what buffs are available to it. Either way.. I'll just throw 2 things together that first come to mind; Hammerers and Sisters of Slaughter:30 Sisters of Slaughter (30 in combat, Whip + Buckler): This includes Hagg Narr (RR Hits T3), Mindrazor (+1 rend, but also +1 damage if their Bravery is higher, which is included), Witchbrew (RR F Wounds), and Catechism of Murder (unmod 6's to hit = 2 hits). Now, to do this kind of damage, you need to be on T3 and a "tax" of at least a Bloodwrack Medusa for Mindrazor, as well as a Hag Queen for Catechism + Witchbrew. Total cost = 530* (see note below)*NOTE: For another 330\480 points (either a Cauldron\Morathi) you can make this unit attack outside of combat for a CP, effectively activating twice. Nearly every list is going to have at least 1 Cauldron, so lets say it's 860.30 Hammerers (20 in combat): This includes Forgefire (+1 rend), Ancestral Grudge and Aura of Glory (+2 attacks total), Portents of Battle (+1 hit), Shattering Blow (unmod 6's to wound = 1 MW in addition), as well as the Azyros and Longbeard buffs (RR 1's to hit and wound respectively). To do all this, you need a Runelord, King, Azyros, Longbeards, Hurricanum. Total cost = 1,05040 Stormvermin (30 in combat: This includes Skavenbrew and Clawlord (+2 attacks total), as well as Overwhelming Mass (+1 hit\wound). Total cost = 690 Now, I didn't include the Dagger for the SoS because you're going to run the Bucklers most of the time for MW's and additional save.. I think it would be overkill to have the Dagger. Speaking of overkill, that's one reason I opted for SoS over Witch Aelves; with these same buffs (and the fact they can get 4 attacks each) they would be able to throw out ~80-90+ damage against a 4+ if only 20 get into combat. This is where we start getting into the differences outside of just raw damage: Hammerers can easily have those buffs but rely on a prayer and spell going off, as well as needing a CP. In my TE list, I run a Bridge and a Ghur Battlemage (+2 charge) and combined with their inherent +1 to charge, I can get them charging across the Bridge needing only a 6+. If I threw Aetherguard Captain on my General, that would be a 5+ charge. But in this above scenario, I now need 3 spells to go off: Bridge, Wildform and Aura.. meaning I would need a 3rd wizard to make this happen T1. The better option is HH in my opinion, where you effectively trade +1 attack for +1 to wound and would likely have 0 issues getting those spells off... but that's a talk for the CoS thread Sisters I've mostly already talked about, but they're along the same vein as Hammerers. With the 6" pile in, they don't need to charge. You can run 3" away and then just pile right in and likely get all 30 of them into combat. Their buffs rely on a prayer, spell and.. well it being T3 for the hit RR's. Even if it isn't T3, 30 SoS' will do about the same damage against 5+ saves as 20 Hammerers will and if you just throw out another CP for RR 1's\hit then they still do ~57 vs Hammerers ~66. Again, they also throw out MW's on 6's; and remember it's unmodified so even if you can't save against the attack, you still roll to get those 6's. Stormvermin? Just hope they don't fall below 30 before they reach their target and throw Skavenbrew and a CP at them and bam, they do what they need to do.. but they don't really have any tricks like the above and their damage is far lower. The "overall cost" is lower, but now you have to look at the rest of the army composition: DoK are probably gonna have 2-3 of these units as well as deepstriking\mobility\heavy hitting Snek-Ladies. CoS is likely going to also be backed up by lots of shooting\spellcasting. Both of these armies can afford the price tags of 300 for 30 SoS and 360 for 30 Hammerers simply because a lot of those buffing units are already going to be included no matter what you're running and with CoS, you have plenty of cheap chaff units to stand around and screen. With Skaven, you need 360 points worth of chaff, 1-4 Heroes depending on what you're bringing (1-2 Engineers, a Grey Seer, Clawlord, etc) and you fill up the rest with threats.. some of which do absolutely nothing without the right buffs applied, unlike some other armies that can still perform quite well without them. If I missed anything\got something wrong let me know.. I worked on this off and on while working from home and watching our little 7-week old corgi who really loves to bite toes.. which makes everything else harder to do 😅. I will say there are likely better units to compare it too, especially within CoS... but again, I just don't really like to make comparisons when army compositions vary so drastically, as well as what buffs they have access too and how easy\difficult they are to get off on these units. TLDR; I love Stormvermin, but their damage output for the points required isn't worth it if you actually do want to look at other armies units. Either lower the cost to 340 or less, or buff their stats and keep them at 400-450. Edited March 31, 2020 by Gwendar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.