AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[Quahog]

On 3/19/2019 at 2:13 PM, Skabnoze said:

I don't care about fluff explaining why you can have a midget Troggboss.  I want a giant massive troll that inspires (as much as dim-witted trolls can be inspired) his brethren through his gargantuan hugeness.

 

Agreed. I was a tad disappointed with the Trollboss' size, thought he looked bigger in the book. I was hoping for something more nearly Ghorgon size. 

[Thostos]

  Plan to try this out in various configurations over my next few game sessions.My pic just shows 20 stabbas as an example,thinking that a block of 40 or even 60 camped midfield or on an objective would be quite hard to shift.

 This is something ive wanted to see be effective in the game since the release of AoS,,that is taking advantage of the melee weapon ranges with multi-scroll formations,though it just seemed too clunky to make work.Currently though,it seems the game may be ready for something like this,mainly due to many of the power builds out there now use a large block of 20-40 buffed up horde units,,of which Grots can certainly do as well,,but adding in the Trolls,,er "embedding" the Trolls could add considerable punch especially considering that the Trolls themselves will likely be -2 to hit due to stench and nets.

  The main issue is placement of the unit since its basically an "Anvilstar' of sorts and would only do its job on an objective or possibly an avenue of approach that the opponent would need to get through.

  Certainly the Troggs could get shot out of the middle,,but in that case they would be getting shot up were ever they were..my goal in this case would be to have a few units of Trolls opperating on the flanks or out front of these blocks as well.

 

[basement dweller]

6 hours ago, newsun said:

So what is thought on making Troggs competitive? Is it possible and if so what is needed to augment short comings?

I thinks it bodies for objectives and screening (probably goblins...maybe squigs) and some magic (fungoid, hag, others).  The hag likely is a must.  People like the cauldron to open the full spells list but i havent tested this.

We have hit 1000 points in our escalation league so now I can test out some troll lists against some stronger opponents and if i can play them competively...knowing that the trolls and i both have our flaws...

[novakai]

3 hours ago, Quahog said:

Agreed. I was a tad disappointed with the Trollboss' size, thought he looked bigger in the book. I was hoping for something more nearly Ghorgon size. 

well maybe their leaving room for a Troggking in the future

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

well maybe their leaving room for a Troggking in the future

Or a Troggregent.

[Malakree]

14 hours ago, newsun said:

So what is thought on making Troggs competitive? Is it possible and if so what is needed to augment short comings?

Depends on how far into pure troggs you want to go and what you mean by competitive.

Having played gloomspite at throne of skulls a trogg+grot build definetly works. You get so much damage out of the troggs it's unreal while the grots give you the objective holding potential.

A highly tuned pure trogg list is probably going to be a solid 3+ occasionally 4+ list for big tournaments. Everything except the dankholds are solid for their price which really helps.

For the dankholds, normal troggs are overcosted by quite a lot, troggbosses are overcosted a bit but you can use the combination of artefact+command trait to bring them up to par and tailor them for your needs. Mollog is a beast for his points, hard to kill with a ton of utility and churns out mortal wounds.

Personally I'd advocate for at least a fungoid and 20x20 grots to back the troggs up. I think they need the bodies/screen.

[Gothmaug]

So what was the  consensus on the rockgut troggoths ranged attack ability? Is your target number less than the number of trolls in the unit (in which case 6 trolls = auto d3 mortals), or less than the number of targets in the enemy unit selected?

I can see it argued both ways, has there been any official clarification? 

My local meta plays it as the number of trolls in the unit, as the more trolls = more rocks hurled at the target, and therefore harder for the target to avoid.Makes it equally effective on single hero’s as hordes. 

[RoyalDachshund]

You pick "A" unit and need to roll more than a number of models in "A" unit. The wording is pretty clear; in your mates scenario wording would be along the way "if a roll is greater than the number of models in Rockguts Troggoths unit".

More Troggs - more rocks sound good but do not work like this. More Troggs units tho...

[newsun]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

Depends on how far into pure troggs you want to go and what you mean by competitive.

Having played gloomspite at throne of skulls a trogg+grot build definetly works. You get so much damage out of the troggs it's unreal while the grots give you the objective holding potential.

A highly tuned pure trogg list is probably going to be a solid 3+ occasionally 4+ list for big tournaments. Everything except the dankholds are solid for their price which really helps.

For the dankholds, normal troggs are overcosted by quite a lot, troggbosses are overcosted a bit but you can use the combination of artefact+command trait to bring them up to par and tailor them for your needs. Mollog is a beast for his points, hard to kill with a ton of utility and churns out mortal wounds.

Personally I'd advocate for at least a fungoid and 20x20 grots to back the troggs up. I think they need the bodies/screen.

Maybe something like this

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
Loonboss (70)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)
20 x Shootas (130)
20 x Shootas (130)
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)
Troggherd (180)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 145
 

 

There are 70 points play in it, though with battalion, loonboss, and snufflers one unit could really wreck shop. Possibly another depending on how many CP you have. I'd almost lean to another loonboss to cover more board with that buff or maybe second snufflers. Artifacts and traits I'd want to test.

Edited March 27, 2019 by newsun

[Malakree]

28 minutes ago, newsun said:

There are 70 points play in it, though with battalion, loonboss, and snufflers one unit could really wreck shop. Possibly another depending on how many CP you have. I'd almost lean to another loonboss to cover more board with that buff or maybe second snufflers. Artifacts and traits I'd want to test.

Loonbosses and snufflers aren't worth it with shootas. You're also going to struggle to make them work on units of 20 stabbas, you really need a 60 stabba block for the two to be worth it.

Drop the grot synergy stuff, go to 2 stabbas and a shoota, grab a madcap with moonface momet? I feel like you want the frog synergy OR the troggherd, both together is a lot of points which don't enhance each other.The

For perspective you're looking at spending 210 points to buff 140 points of grots.

[Arkahn]

What about this ? 

Allegiance: Destruction 
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (580)
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
- Wild Fury 
- Ghyrstrike
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Verdant Mantle
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
10 x Orruks (80)
10 x Orruks (80)
10 x Orruks (80)
Troggherd (180)
Skrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97

 

You lost the Gloomspite allegiance but you got the Gordrakk command ability and the Wild Fury + Ghyrstrike combo. 

[newsun]

59 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Loonbosses and snufflers aren't worth it with shootas. You're also going to struggle to make them work on units of 20 stabbas, you really need a 60 stabba block for the two to be worth it.

Drop the grot synergy stuff, go to 2 stabbas and a shoota, grab a madcap with moonface momet? I feel like you want the frog synergy OR the troggherd, both together is a lot of points which don't enhance each other.The

For perspective you're looking at spending 210 points to buff 140 points of grots.

Ug, I missed moonclan only. 

[basement dweller]

So rethinking tooling out my troggboss...

I went mightyblow (reroll club damage) and ghyrstrike (+1 to hit and damage) in my first 2 games with him.  This helps him not whiff and generally makes him a better wrecker.  I like this load out at higher points (ie 2000 points) as you can bubble wrap him a little to help keep him alive...longer.  In both my games, he got double turned and killed...so maybe some bad luck there.

The more i think about it, i like loonskin more and more.  It effectively does 2 things...generates an extra CP each turn (likely turns 2-4) and increases his regeneration.  The CP will allow you to use his command ability (rerolling 1s to hit for him and friendly trolls nearby) more often and make him a little punchier.  I think i am going to pair this with gryph feather charm (-1 to hit) in the hopes his staying alive longer makes him deal more damage in the long run.

I am playing at 1000 points right now...where i think survivability is key as you have few models on the board amd lossing 300 is a big hit.

I think the glowie howzit is the ultimate gamblers item...a whiff early ends it but some nice rolls and it is better than any others.  I dont think i have the gambler in me for this...

Any other items/command abilities people like?  I could entertain doppleganger cloak or ethereal amulate against certain foes.

Ill let you know if he survives his third battle...

 

 

 

[TeddyMadeMeDoIt]

1 hour ago, Arkahn said:

You lost the Gloomspite allegiance but you got the Gordrakk command ability and the Wild Fury + Ghyrstrike combo. 

Oooooooh, that looks like one hell of a find, his command giving 2 additional attacks with EACH melee weapon in a unit AND it effects all in a battalion. That's crazy on Troggherd, Rockguts getting 4 attacks each doing 3 damage everytime one gets through and Troggboss getting 6 attacks doing D6 each time it gets through

My experience with the bad moon has not been great so dropping a fairly unreliable allegiance ability for this seems pretty sweet for all Troggs,  great stuff @Arkahn

Edited March 27, 2019 by TeddyMadeMeDoIt

[newsun]

Trogs are stupid.

[Arkahn]

1 hour ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

Oooooooh, that looks like one hell of a find, his command giving 2 additional attacks with EACH melee weapon in a unit AND it effects all in a battalion. That's crazy on Troggherd, Rockguts getting 4 attacks each doing 3 damage everytime one gets through and Troggboss getting 6 attacks doing D6 each time it gets through

My experience with the bad moon has not been great so dropping a fairly unreliable allegiance ability for this seems pretty sweet for all Troggs,  great stuff @Arkahn

More than that with the Troggboss ! Wild Fury + Gorrdrakk ! 1 or 2 + 2 ! With the Ghyrstrike and command ability, you have 8 attacks +2 reroll 1 +3 D6 ! It's insane !

After all I think the Chronomantic Cogs might be better than the Mork's Mighty Mushroom, +2 to move and charge increase the poor Trogg's movement !

[Malakree]

19 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

More than that with the Troggboss ! Wild Fury + Gorrdrakk ! 1 or 2 + 2 ! With the Ghyrstrike and command ability, you have 8 attacks +2 reroll 1 +3 D6 ! It's insane !

After all I think the Chronomantic Cogs might be better than the Mork's Mighty Mushroom, +2 to move and charge increase the poor Trogg's movement !

You do realise that the 5 Crushing Grip attacks is the truly horrific thing about it? The ones which ignore all forms of saves including vs allocating wounds....

[Arkahn]

28 minutes ago, Malakree said:

You do realise that the 5 Crushing Grip attacks is the truly horrific thing about it? The ones which ignore all forms of saves including vs allocating wounds....

I do ! 5 chances to one shot a "small" hero or finish a big target !

[TeddyMadeMeDoIt]

There are many scary things about that list and that idea, although in 2000 points it's hard to fit other things around it, based on the minis I have could run

Allegiance: Destruction
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
- Trait: Wild Fury
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (580)

Battleline
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 3x Barbed Nets
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 3x Barbed Nets
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 3x Barbed Nets
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers

Units
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)

Battalions
Troggherd (180)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

Stabbas with some Nets to -1 hit and the Loonshrine to respawn 10 when they die could be useful to run around and grab objectives or stay close to the Loonshrine for bravery if they could just to stay about a bit longer whilst the big guys get the job done...

[Arkahn]

19 minutes ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

There are many scary things about that list and that idea, although in 2000 points it's hard to fit other things around it, based on the minis I have could run

Stabbas with some Nets to -1 hit and the Loonshrine to respawn 10 when they die could be useful to run around and grab objectives or stay close to the Loonshrine for bravery if they could just to stay about a bit longer whilst the big guys get the job done...

But no wizard at all is a bad idea in my opinion, no dispel, no control on endless spells and no Moon clan spells from the cauldron !

Especially HoG, imagine using it on the Troggboss and then using Gorrdrakk command ability, add the Cogs and you can charge from 9" with 3D6 + 2 !!

Edited March 27, 2019 by Arkahn

[Malakree]

41 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

I do ! 5 chances to one shot a "small" hero or finish a big target !

Just to note, the crushing attack targets the wound "Characteristic" not their current wounds. So if you're attacking a Mawkrusha you will never be able to grip it.

The sickening thing is when you crush 4/5 sequitors THEN slam them with the club!

[TeddyMadeMeDoIt]

27 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

But no wizard at all is a bad idea in my opinion, no dispel, no control on endless spells and no Moon clan spells from the cauldron !

Especially HoG, imagine using it on the Troggboss and then using Gorrdrakk command ability, add the Cogs and you can charge from 9" with 3D6 + 2 !!

Yes it's not a great list,  the Loonshrine is also irrelevant as it's Gloomspite, you've found the right Battleline cheap orruks to allow those wizards of mentioned 

[Arkahn]

10 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Just to note, the crushing attack targets the wound "Characteristic" not their current wounds. So if you're attacking a Mawkrusha you will never be able to grip it.

My bad, thank you to notice it !

[Eevika]

On 3/27/2019 at 1:14 AM, newsun said:

So what is thought on making Troggs competitive? Is it possible and if so what is needed to augment short comings?

Currently they are not competitive. Both the Troggboss and Dankhold Troggoth are way over priced. I have heard chatter of people putting units of 9 on their regular lists to use as a hammer unit but thats about it for them at a high competitive level.

[Quahog]

17 hours ago, Arkahn said:

What about this ? 

Allegiance: Destruction 
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (580)

 

You lost the Gloomspite allegiance but you got the Gordrakk command ability and the Wild Fury + Ghyrstrike combo. 

While it is a brilliant idea and well done, since Gordrakk can't die  sacrificing 760 pts is a helluva lot. You basically have an army of 9 admittedly very  offensively overpowered Troggoths. But they will get avoided and shot.