The trap of wanting to be unique

[AaronWilson]

I've nevered worried about playing the "popular" army. I simple play what I like

[Bosmer Nightblade]

I'm not bothered if one person is playing the same army as me, but i would be bothered if everyone was.

[Fulkes]

11 minutes ago, Bosmer Nightblade said:

I'm not bothered if one person is playing the same army as me, but i would be bothered if everyone was.

I'm not even bothered by the idea of everyone playing the same army as long as we're not all playing the same exact lists. That's when I get frustrated and bored with an army.

[Overread]

If your whole club is playing the same lists for the same army then I'd  be really surprised! I can see that sort of happening at a competitive event now and then (more so with the old balance style when whatever army was newest was often the most powerful ever - esp in 40K). But at club level it should be super rare for that to happen. 

[Fulkes]

12 minutes ago, Overread said:

If your whole club is playing the same lists for the same army then I'd  be really surprised! I can see that sort of happening at a competitive event now and then (more so with the old balance style when whatever army was newest was often the most powerful ever - esp in 40K). But at club level it should be super rare for that to happen. 

It's definitely more of my own complaint about tournaments and a lack of creativity in favor of easy list building, shallow tactical thinking and generally just not trying. It's one thing to use a netlist to make a jumping off point into becoming a better player but failing to adapt a list to match your own playstyle is about as weak as most American beers.

[Chickenbits]

I relate hard, playing the popular armies is a no-no from me. My worst Warhammer nightmare is playing a mirror match and losing, quite a kick to the ego haha.

 

But like others have said, I think you can "improve" by playing good but not *the* best armies, and slowly learn to remove some of the snowflaky-ness. Nurgle and Tzeentch comes to mind, both are strong but not the top dogs like Daughters, Idoneth, Stormcast and Death. Both also give a lot of options in list-building. I'm currently doing this with Beasts of Chaos. I'll never be the only BoC player at a tournament, but every other match won't be a mirror match like it is for the Stormcast players.

 

When it comes to Magic terms, I'm a true Timmy, but also a good bit of Johnny  It suprisies me, however, that there isn't a term for "tribal" and theme-players. I pretty much always played decks based around a tribal (a certain type of creature, like a goblin or elf-deck) or decks with strong themes, like decks strongly based around the guilds of Ravnica.

[Overread]

1 hour ago, Chickenbits said:

When it comes to Magic terms, I'm a true Timmy, but also a good bit of Johnny  It suprisies me, however, that there isn't a term for "tribal" and theme-players. I pretty much always played decks based around a tribal (a certain type of creature, like a goblin or elf-deck) or decks with strong themes, like decks strongly based around the guilds of Ravnica.

From my experiences of magic most visual based themes are often a poor choice. Which is a nightmare because the maths heavy players who view it all as numbers and such tend to build better decks (I think its also because they can memorize more cards in their head so its easier for them to find combos); whilst hte more lore/visual player finds it darn hard because whilst creature or group types might have common themes, they are not always the "best" to combine for a deck (although saying that Ravnica guides, at least in the first release, did do very well at this in general and could at least put together a competent deck whilst fitting the theme of a guild)

[michu]

@Overread Fortunately we Vorthos (lore fans) players have Commander for flavourful decks.

 

Ok, back to AoS (however topic about other games and their design decisions would be nice)

[Wired4War]

Some of you are spot on about my feeling on mirror matches. I live to imagine my own narrative for each game, and Stormcasts fighting another Order alliance feels weird (unless it is another Stormcast...then I can pretend we're in the gladiatorial training grounds, I suppose.)

To muddle this even further from my initial post, one of the reasons I've stuck with Stormcasts so far is because of the overwhelming compliments I get on the paint. I literally just use the classic Hammers of Sigmar gold and blue, and maybe that is what makes me unique? By doing the most commonly seen thing well? Bother.

[Fulkes]

8 minutes ago, Wired4War said:

Some of you are spot on about my feeling on mirror matches. I live to imagine my own narrative for each game, and Stormcasts fighting another Order alliance feels weird (unless it is another Stormcast...then I can pretend we're in the gladiatorial training grounds, I suppose.)

To muddle this even further from my initial post, one of the reasons I've stuck with Stormcasts so far is because of the overwhelming compliments I get on the paint. I literally just use the classic Hammers of Sigmar gold and blue, and maybe that is what makes me unique? By doing the most commonly seen thing well? Bother.

If it helps, Order doesn't mean "good" it just means "not on the side of Chaos or wrecking everyone's stuff for no reason and don't have skulls for their heads".

[Lemon Knuckles]

3 minutes ago, Fulkes said:

If it helps, Order doesn't mean "good" it just means "not on the side of Chaos or wrecking everyone's stuff for no reason and don't have skulls for their heads".

Pretty sure Order has skulls too...  they just like to protect theirs with flesh helmets.

[Fulkes]

7 minutes ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Pretty sure Order has skulls too...  they just like to protect theirs with flesh helmets.

I meant more the bare and shiny ones sitting atop polished bones that march themselves into the fray. :P

[Thiagoma]

I dont think it is exactly a trap, but can prove to be a challenge.

 

I love beeing unique and bring to the table models that my meta has never seen.  Not to brag or have an upper hand on the fight, my local meta doesnt have a GW on the country and people are very chill and not heavly competitive, but to show different models.

 

My first army was order draconis. Since then i felt in love with High Elfs, so i limit myself to High Elf models.  I think i have already most models in the range and the challenge is : Acording to the rules how can i field as many different units as possible? Battlelines are really restrictive, even for a Order army.

My current 2 k army has Dragon, Phoenix, Swordmasters, Phoenix Guard, Reavers, Mages and so on.  
Wish i didnt have to use Reavers and Glade Guard (only non high elf unit) as BL but....

 

Anyways it is a hobby and i am doing something i really enjoy. If you wanna think outside the box, go for it!

 

 

 

[Kyriakin]

I would tend to want to be somewhat obscure, but not to the point of being at risk of a squatting.

Anyway, the conflict in my head is with regards to updates, and your favourite faction suddenly becoming the new "hotness". For example, imagine you were a DoK player from the pre-battletome days. Despite having no book, you chose them because they were thematically your favourite faction.

Fast-forward to today, and you would no-doubt get some rolls of the eyes as you get out your "oh god, not another Daughters of Khaine" army.

My cousin is a Chelsea fan, and supported them back when they weren't even in the top flight of English football (i.e. the old DIvision 2). Despite all the trophies and titles, he sometimes feels like something has been lost when he sees how they are now promoted as a "global brand" in every far-flung corner of the globe. I think its a similar thing.

[Fulkes]

2 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

I would tend to want to be somewhat obscure, but not to the point of being at risk of a squatting.

Anyway, the conflict in my head is with regards to updates, and your favourite faction suddenly becoming the new "hotness". For example, imagine you were a DoK player from the pre-battletome days. Despite having no book, you chose them because they were thematically your favourite faction.

Fast-forward to today, and you would no-doubt get some rolls of the eyes as you get out your "oh god, not another Daughters of Khaine" army.

My cousin is a Chelsea fan, and supported them back when they weren't even in the top flight of English football (i.e. the old DIvision 2). Despite all the trophies and titles, he sometimes feels like something has been lost when he sees how they are now promoted as a "global brand" in every far-flung corner of the globe. I think its a similar thing.

Ah yes, the "I liked it before it was cool" thing we all have to face.

I rather don't mind if others like the stuff I like and get involved in something because they see something interesting, or even like the same things as I do. Heck, I've chattered over on B&C about Sisters a lot when I was actively playing them because it's nice to have fellow fans to help bounce ideas off of and get a feeling for how everything should work.

For wargaming at least, it's not the mainstreaming of something I like that bothers me, but rather when GW slips up in balance and then everyone flocks to my faction of choice because of how strong it is leading to everyone to assume that you're just some netlisting neckbeard who is there to smash faces no matter how long you've been playing the army or how much TLC you've put into making your army your own.

[Wired4War]

Based on some advice in this thread, I've signed up for a greenstuff sculpting workshop at Adepticon. Hopefully I learn some techniques that will help me make whatever army I play unique!

[Overread]

As you're looking into using greenstuff have some free tips

1) The mix of blue to yellow can be varied, I forget which is which though (as most of what I do is basic and thus 50:50 works). If you add more of one colour you can achieve finer detail, but it won't set quite as hard; whilst the other mix is a little less fine for tiny details, but will set harder.

2) Water. Water is essential and you'll want a little pot nearby. Wetting your tools creates a wet layer on the tool that stops greenstuff sticking to them. You can still pick it up and manipulated it, but it wont get stuck on them. Regularly wetting your tools is essential to work with greenstuff otherwise it will drive you mad. 

Note you can also use normal oil such as olive oil or sunflower. Oil will even last longer on the tool and thus won't need to be wetted as often. However oil also lasts longer on the greenstuff so can get in the way if you are building up layers and it also requires you to wash the model after the greenstuff has fully cured and set. Otherwise the oil will affect glues and paints.

3) Greenstuff sets slowly over time, but it will feel firm before its fully set. So a good 24 hours or so is best to make sure its fully cured into its hardest state. 

4) Colourshapers/clayshapers. Same tool just different names and I'm surprised GW hasn't got their own line of these. They are fantastic. What they let you do is rub the greenstuff so that you can smooth it over, but unlike your finger, it won't leave any ring or other marks on the greenstuff. Great for smoothing over a join area or pressing it down.

They come in a variety of shapes and firmnesses. If you only get one then a black or grey cone shaped head would be the most useful. Otherwise a set of 5 white, grey and black would give you all the shapes and firmnesses you need to work with. 

5) Hit up ebay or a hobby shop and buy a set of metal clay working tools. You'll get a set of standard tools that work great with greenstuff. The GW tool is great and often one of the most used, but its cheaper to grab a generic set which will have a lot more options - giving you room to experiment with different effects.

6) Greenstuff is often about layers and building things up. So always apply less than you think you need. IT's much easier to add a little more than it is to take away some. 

[Wired4War]

27 minutes ago, Overread said:

As you're looking into using greenstuff have some free tips

1) The mix of blue to yellow can be varied, I forget which is which though (as most of what I do is basic and thus 50:50 works). If you add more of one colour you can achieve finer detail, but it won't set quite as hard; whilst the other mix is a little less fine for tiny details, but will set harder.

2) Water. Water is essential and you'll want a little pot nearby. Wetting your tools creates a wet layer on the tool that stops greenstuff sticking to them. You can still pick it up and manipulated it, but it wont get stuck on them. Regularly wetting your tools is essential to work with greenstuff otherwise it will drive you mad. 

Note you can also use normal oil such as olive oil or sunflower. Oil will even last longer on the tool and thus won't need to be wetted as often. However oil also lasts longer on the greenstuff so can get in the way if you are building up layers and it also requires you to wash the model after the greenstuff has fully cured and set. Otherwise the oil will affect glues and paints.

3) Greenstuff sets slowly over time, but it will feel firm before its fully set. So a good 24 hours or so is best to make sure its fully cured into its hardest state. 

4) Colourshapers/clayshapers. Same tool just different names and I'm surprised GW hasn't got their own line of these. They are fantastic. What they let you do is rub the greenstuff so that you can smooth it over, but unlike your finger, it won't leave any ring or other marks on the greenstuff. Great for smoothing over a join area or pressing it down.

They come in a variety of shapes and firmnesses. If you only get one then a black or grey cone shaped head would be the most useful. Otherwise a set of 5 white, grey and black would give you all the shapes and firmnesses you need to work with. 

5) Hit up ebay or a hobby shop and buy a set of metal clay working tools. You'll get a set of standard tools that work great with greenstuff. The GW tool is great and often one of the most used, but its cheaper to grab a generic set which will have a lot more options - giving you room to experiment with different effects.

6) Greenstuff is often about layers and building things up. So always apply less than you think you need. IT's much easier to add a little more than it is to take away some. 

Thanks! I've only dabbled with it so far to fix gaps and make little base details. I'd love to eventually make fur or armor embellishments or help tie things together when kitbashing.

[amysrevenge]

The desire to be unique can have a secondary root in insecurity (that's where it is for me).

Here's how it starts - you think you aren't good enough to win.  If you play a top tier army and still lose (like you're afraid you will), then it's proven that you're a loser.  Only a huge loser could, say, play Tzeentch in early 2017 and not win.  But if you play something off-beat and unusual, every win is a moral victory, and every loss is to be expected anyway - who would expect even the best player in the world to win all their games playing Spiderfang Grots?

So unique can be a defense mechanism, to not have to face your own fear of inadequacy.  Fun!

[Ollie Grimwood]

Well if you’ve got a different army people will always be happy to play you, I’ve generally found people like a bit of variety in opponents.  Far from being a special snowflake (or some other MtG quasi insult term) I feel the unique player has the touch of the hobby hero about them. 

[Thiagoma]

7 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Well if you’ve got a different army people will always be happy to play you, I’ve generally found people like a bit of variety in opponents.  Far from being a special snowflake (or some other MtG quasi insult term) I feel the unique player has the touch of the hobby hero about them. 

I kinda think that way.  I am from Brazil and the local meta is quite small.  We got about 20 players and the hobby is around 4 times more expensive for us,  so most people end up with armies from starter box and battleforces ( SCE, Khorne, Tzeench, Sylvaneth and Death). I Was wondered to see a Giant Spider from Grots and a Brettonia army!

I play high elves (mixed order) and it is a pleasure to take different miniatures to share with people and increase the variety of our pool. My favorite unit ever is Dragon Blades and was amazing to take (and win) a small 4fun tournament with those guys.

One of the new players is going for Beasts of Chaos and i cant wait to see those guys on the table!

[Souleater]

I am terrible for this. Was going to start DoK and Ad Mech but once I found out there are three or four armies of each at the club I was really put off the idea 

Partly, I want to be playing  a rare army to feel a bit special. Which is very silly,  I know.  

 

I also think it is more interesting to have a variety of different armies to fight. 

Lastly, I am very uncompetitive. I would feel quite down being outplayed in a mirror match. Which, again is silly, and something I need to work on.

 

[Dead Scribe]

I wish to be a Johnny but I am also highly competitive and thus require the strongest build(s) in the game of which when you play like I do there are only a small handful of the highest optimal builds, and in the interest of wanting to compete I am forced to pick from one of those builds at the expense of playing lists that are duplicated throughout most of the events I have been in.

Therefore I'd say I'm more accurately a spike wanting to be a johnny.

[amysrevenge]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 10:22 AM, amysrevenge said:

The desire to be unique can have a secondary root in insecurity (that's where it is for me).

Here's how it starts - you think you aren't good enough to win.  If you play a top tier army and still lose (like you're afraid you will), then it's proven that you're a loser.  Only a huge loser could, say, play Tzeentch in early 2017 and not win.  But if you play something off-beat and unusual, every win is a moral victory, and every loss is to be expected anyway - who would expect even the best player in the world to win all their games playing Spiderfang Grots?

So unique can be a defense mechanism, to not have to face your own fear of inadequacy.  Fun!

Aaaaaand I smashed up a local fella with Nighthaunt with my Spiderfang on the weekend.  Go me!

 

(It's a surprisingly good matchup, as those MW just tear them up)

[Kyriakin]

My decision was based around the fact that I basically like three biomes - ocean, ice/snow and desert.

With TK gone and Idoneth being a big miss for me (wish it had been a Scourge Privateer expansion instead), it was BCR. I have spent the many months since trying to come up with a ice lake basing scheme that I like.

However, the day TK make any kind of return - even just bringing back the discontinued plastics as a small faction - I will drop everything and return to my one true love.

For me it primarily comes down to theme and aesthetics. However, being a less-seen faction would probably be my second consideration, ahead of price, competitiveness (etc.).