AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Thenord]

 

4 hours ago, Mutton said:

Was kind of hoping the Shrine and Avatar would come down a bit. Stalkers are still worthless. Could have been worse, could have been better.

Exactly. My list got 40 points more expensive..

[Belper]

9 hours ago, Thenord said:

 

Exactly. My list got 40 points more expensive..

Mine went up 110. Which unfortunately means I can't really afford to run Morathi anymore. At least at bigger events. 

[Belper]

15 hours ago, Lucentia said:

Heartrenders an extremely valuable tool outside of their damage output, and they see lots of play as allies and in mixed order forces, which I suspect is the driving logic behind a little points bump there.

Heartrenders are pretty much mandatory outside of cauldron guard lists, where lifetakers do a poor imitation of them. Just having a unit that can drop behind your opponent (or clear off stormcast birds, which I believe will be a bigger deal with longstrikes going down) is incredibly usefull.

[whispersofblood]

49 minutes ago, Belper said:

Heartrenders are pretty much mandatory outside of cauldron guard lists, where lifetakers do a poor imitation of them. Just having a unit that can drop behind your opponent (or clear off stormcast birds, which I believe will be a bigger deal with longstrikes going down) is incredibly usefull.

I find lifetakers are quite powerful when it comes to the objective and activation game. 

But I have my own theory as to where DoK need to go currently.

[Lirieth]

On 6/7/2019 at 8:07 AM, whispersofblood said:

Lunchbox doesn't prevent a unit from moving afterwards.

My German translation says you cannot move after you used this ability 

all the others teleporting / summoning abilities are the same...

 

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Lirieth said:

My German translation says you cannot move after you used this ability 

all the others teleporting / summoning abilities are the same...

 

English app and warscrolls have no language prohibiting the unit from moving in the movement phase. Perhaps the German translation team just assumed that text was included because it was included in similar mechanics.

[DJMoose]

On 6/11/2019 at 12:37 AM, Haph said:

Hey! New poster here...

I've been collecting minis here and there for a few years now and finally have a chance to participate in a narrative campaign at my local shop. 

Starting at 600 points, I'm wondering if anyone could help me with a starter army? I have the Blood Coven box half assembled, and a box of doomfires, and wouldn't mind picking up some mesulai if that's at all workable. 

 

I'd really like to be able to rake the Medusa, on shrine or off. 

 

I was thinking Medusa General, doomfires, and two units of blood sisters?

Bloodwrack Medusa or Bloodwrack Shrine as your general with Blood Sisters as battleline is super effective. I frequently run two unit's of 20 Blood Sisters.

[InSaint]

Hey guys, based on some initial play testing with the new Meeting Engagement Rules and points.

This is my first impression of how DoK performs in the 1000pts Meeting Engagement.

Factors to consider

1. Reduced board size
2. Army forces splitting up
3. Different deployment timings
4. Varied deployment locations along different edges
5. High emphasis on MSU (minimum squad size)
6. Meta seems to revolve around Glass Cannons blowing each other up

Temple Tiers & Reason

1. Draichi Ganeth - Essentially the board size is reduced so you can easily get a charge in and almost always enjoy the +1.
2. Hag Narr - Still good but since timing and location deployment of Spearhead/Main/Rearguard is mixed up depending on battleplan, your General might not always come out at the start of the first turn. You forces will also split up and cannot always enjoy the 5+ FNP 7" from the General. The re-rolls to hit on T3 is also great but because of the deployment,  you are not able to field max witches with the typical synergy to last long enough for T3.
3. Khailebron - Situational. Because board is reduced there are some limitation on being able to teleport (you have to be 9" away from enemy and enemy board edge). Will be useful against shooting but since board is so small, a lot of shooting units don't get much mileage before you can engage them in close combat. A possible way to play this is to make your Hag Queen the General and teleport her around to give Witch Brew.
4. The Kraith - If you are lucky play this.

Tier 1 Units

• Witch Aelves - No brainer. Despite the points hike to 120pts, they are still a beast. 
• Hag Queen - Essential unit, 90pts is still a great bargain for Witch Brew and Catechism of Murder.
• Khinerai Lifetakers - This is a surprise. Due to their mobility, they become phenomenal. At 80pts, they can easily wipe out 60% of any MSU, battle shock will do the rest.
• Blood Sisters - 5 is enough to wipe out almost anything at MSU. Almost essential to handle any high save targets. Recommend to bring 5.

Tier 2 Units

• Morathi - Expensive and because of the changing deployment timing and location, she can become a big hit or miss. If she comes in at the end of Turn 1 or Turn 2, she runs the risk of suffering wounds in her humanoid state which is not optimal. But she is very difficult to deal with in a 1000 pts game. 
• Medusae on foot (with Shadow Stone) - Mindrazor. With emphasis on MSU, she is also less prone to dying immediately in combat.
• Sisters of Slaughter - Great but Witch Aelves are still better especially w Draichi Ganeth
• Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood - No pts hike (hurray!) and you can bypass the Draichi Ganeth tax on Slaughter Queen artefact. You likely need to give it Themalrider Cloak for +4" movement and fly,  otherwise it has movement issues.

Tier 3 Units

• Bloodwrack Shrine - This is viable with the right setup. Cast Steed of Shadows and you have a flying 16" shrine that deals reasonable high amount of MW. The Aura of Agony works well with the prevalence of  MSU.  
• Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood - This is viable if played as a rape train. Don't expect it to be a buffer but a killer. But if you are playing Draichi Ganeth, you are forced to take a sub-par artefact. The Orgy of Slaughter is kind of useless in meeting engagement because most MSU just die off as soon as they get into combat with us.
• Khinerai Heartrenders - They got a 10pts hike. But given the reduction in board size, I find it really difficult to outmaneuver enemies w/o engaging in combat.
• Blood Stalkers - Still mediocre but with the price discount to 140pts and MSU running around, they can actually make an impact on the game. Don't just leave them shooting, send them into close combat if the opportunity arises.
• Doomfire Warlocks - They are still not worth 160pts. Doomfire is unreliable and degrades to D3 quickly. Their melee and shooting are both mediocre.

Tier 4 Units

• Slaughter Queen on Foot - She moves slowly, is fragile and hits moderately. Command ability is not useful.
• Avatar on Foot - Really just an iconic figure head.

Edited June 16, 2019 by InSaint

[Belper]

7 hours ago, InSaint said:

Hey guys, based on some initial play testing with the new Meeting Engagement Rules and points.

This is my first impression of how DoK performs in the 1000pts Meeting Engagement.

Factors to consider

1. Reduced board size
2. Army forces splitting up
3. Different deployment timings
4. Varied deployment locations along different edges
5. High emphasis on MSU (minimum squad size)
6. Meta seems to revolve around Glass Cannons blowing each other up

Temple Tiers & Reason

1. Draichi Ganeth - Essentially the board size is reduced so you can easily get a charge in and almost always enjoy the +1.
2. Hag Narr - Still good but since timing and location deployment of Spearhead/Main/Rearguard is mixed up depending on battleplan, your General might not always come out at the start of the first turn. You forces will also split up and cannot always enjoy the 5+ FNP 7" from the General. The re-rolls to hit on T3 is also great but because of the deployment,  you are not able to field max witches with the typical synergy to last long enough for T3.
3. Khailebron - Situational. Because board is reduced there are some limitation on being able to teleport (you have to be 9" away from enemy and enemy board edge). Will be useful against shooting but since board is so small, a lot of shooting units don't get much mileage before you can engage them in close combat. A possible way to play this is to make your Hag Queen the General and teleport her around to give Witch Brew.
4. The Kraith - If you are lucky play this.

Tier 1 Units

• Witch Aelves - No brainer. Despite the points hike to 120pts, they are still a beast. 
• Hag Queen - Essential unit, 90pts is still a great bargain for Witch Brew and Catechism of Murder.
• Khinerai Lifetakers - This is a surprise. Due to their mobility, they become phenomenal. At 80pts, they can easily wipe out 60% of any MSU, battle shock will do the rest.
• Blood Sisters - 5 is enough to wipe out almost anything at MSU. Almost essential to handle any high save targets. Recommend to bring 5.

Tier 2 Units

• Morathi - Expensive and because of the changing deployment timing and location, she can become a big hit or miss. If she comes in at the end of Turn 1 or Turn 2, she runs the risk of suffering wounds in her humanoid state which is not optimal. But she is very difficult to deal with in a 1000 pts game. 
• Medusae on foot (with Shadow Stone) - Mindrazor. With emphasis on MSU, she is also less prone to dying immediately in combat.
• Sisters of Slaughter - Great but Witch Aelves are still better especially w Draichi Ganeth
• Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood - No pts hike (hurray!) and you can bypass the Draichi Ganeth tax on Slaughter Queen artefact. You likely need to give it Themalrider Cloak for +4" movement and fly,  otherwise it has movement issues.

Tier 3 Units

• Bloodwrack Shrine - This is viable with the right setup. Cast Steed of Shadows and you have a flying 16" shrine that deals reasonable high amount of MW. The Aura of Agony works well with the prevalence of  MSU.  
• Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood - This is viable if played as a rape train. Don't expect it to be a buffer but a killer. But if you are playing Draichi Ganeth, you are forced to take a sub-par artefact. The Orgy of Slaughter is kind of useless in meeting engagement because most MSU just die off as soon as they get into combat with us.
• Khinerai Heartrenders - They got a 10pts hike. But given the reduction in board size, I find it really difficult to outmaneuver enemies w/o engaging in combat.
• Blood Stalkers - Still mediocre but with the price discount to 140pts and MSU running around, they can actually make an impact on the game. Don't just leave them shooting, send them into close combat if the opportunity arises.
• Doomfire Warlocks - They are still not worth 160pts. Doomfire is unreliable and degrades to D3 quickly. Their melee and shooting are both mediocre.

Tier 4 Units

• Slaughter Queen on Foot - She moves slowly, is fragile and hits moderately. Command ability is not useful.
• Avatar on Foot - Really just an iconic figure head.

Did you send Morathi in with the spearhead or did you bring her in with the rest of the stuff?

[InSaint]

1 hour ago, Belper said:

Did you send Morathi in with the spearhead or did you bring her in with the rest of the stuff?

I put her in the spearhead. The intention is to throw spells at long range before transforming her in mid game.

However,  some battleplans only allow you to deploy the spearhead at the end of Turn 1 or Turn 2 so you can lose 1-2 Turns of spellcasting,

[altu]

Hi all!

New DoK player here. Want to discuss first turn auto charge (almost) idea.

List should be KHAILEBRON  temple, with the SHADOWHAMMER COMPACT battalion, and at least one 30 witches unit. At the start of your hero phase, pick witches unit and set up 9 inches from enemy units. Chain some models to own deployment zone, to be able get prayers, Mindrazor, witchbrew, etc. The unit cannot move in your next movement phase. But! You can you battalion ability to mode 3 inches distance from the enemy units in the hero phase. That would be 80+ attacks.

Please share your thoughts about this idea. Do es it makes sense to use it?

Edited June 17, 2019 by altu

[Mark Williams]

3 hours ago, altu said:

Hi all!

New DoK player here. Want to discuss first turn auto charge (almost) idea.

List should be KHAILEBRON  temple, with the SHADOWHAMMER COMPACT battalion, and at least one 30 witches unit. At the start of your hero phase, pick witches unit and set up 9 inches from enemy units. Chain some models to own deployment zone, to be able get prayers, Mindrazor, witchbrew, etc. The unit cannot move in your next movement phase. But! You can you battalion ability to mode 3 inches distance from the enemy units in the hero phase. That would be 80+ attacks.

Please share your thoughts about this idea. Do es it makes sense to use it?

Sounds like a good idea.

[Haph]

On 6/17/2019 at 2:17 AM, DJMoose said:

Bloodwrack Medusa or Bloodwrack Shrine as your general with Blood Sisters as battleline is super effective. I frequently run two unit's of 20 Blood Sisters.

Thanks! I'll look into grabbing some sisters! Glad to know they're decent, I love the aesthetic. I got a Morathi half price second hand and fell in love with the snake ladies.

[InSaint]

6 hours ago, altu said:

Hi all!

New DoK player here. Want to discuss first turn auto charge (almost) idea.

List should be KHAILEBRON  temple, with the SHADOWHAMMER COMPACT battalion, and at least one 30 witches unit. At the start of your hero phase, pick witches unit and set up 9 inches from enemy units. Chain some models to own deployment zone, to be able get prayers, Mindrazor, witchbrew, etc. The unit cannot move in your next movement phase. But! You can you battalion ability to mode 3 inches distance from the enemy units in the hero phase. That would be 80+ attacks.

Please share your thoughts about this idea. Do es it makes sense to use it?

The new Forbidden Power Lauchon the Soulseeker ferry man is better. It gives a free 12" movement at the cost of 1 Witch sacrifice. 

12" (spell) + 6" (move) + 6" (run w CP) + avg. 7" (charge) = 31" threat range 

[Mark Williams]

Would lauchon plus life takers be even better?

[Xil]

What is a good approach to fight against Khorne? Lots of Blood Warriors and Skullcrushers buffed with prayers. 

[ravensverd]

so.. how about list building post ghb2019...

 

how would you tweak this list?  i want to keep morathi, because gristlegore..

 

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples 
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (90)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (90)
- Prayer: 

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)

Endless Spells / Terrain


Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

Edited June 18, 2019 by ravensverd

[Kuma]

Hey all,

About to pick up a painted army for a relatively good deal, was wondering what else I might need to get them up to snuff

Here is what I am getting:

60 witch elves

20 Khinerai Heartrenders

2 Cauldrons

2 Hags

10 Warlocks

1 Medusa

1 Morathi.

[CommissarRotke]

Hello fellows, I have a question about DoK as allies (specifically with Stormcast). I love the Melusai models, and I'd like to know if Blood Stalkers would be worth the points as allies, or if there is another unit/hero that would do better?

[Thenord]

14 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

Hello fellows, I have a question about DoK as allies (specifically with Stormcast). I love the Melusai models, and I'd like to know if Blood Stalkers would be worth the points as allies, or if there is another unit/hero that would do better?

Blood stalkers suck, period. I have 2*5 of them in my army - only because I play all snakes and need them as a tax to get the snake batallion.

If you want snake allies, go with 10 blood sisters and a hag Queen 🙂

[foxicious]

@ravensverd I think the list looks solid. You could trade in a squad of Sisters of Slaughter and the Blood Sisters for another 30 Witch Aelves and a Hag Queen. But that’s probably up to personal taste.

 

@Kuma The units you are getting look like a good core for an army. You could go ahead and play with them right away, with a list looking something like this:

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (assuming that one of your two Cauldrons features a Slaughter Queen)                                          

Morathi                                                             

Hag Queen                                                       

Hag Queen                                                       

Bloodwrack Medusa                                    

30 Witch Aelves                                             

20 Witch Aelves                                             

10 Witch Aelves                                              

5 Khinerai Heartrenders                             

5 Khinerai Heartrenders 

                            

To build up on that I would probably get another MSU battleline (10 Witch Aelves/Sisters of Slaughter)and another Hag Queen (e.g. the Darkling Coven Sorceress, so you don't have to buy another Cauldron set). Leading to a list like this:

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (assuming that one of your two Cauldrons features a Slaughter Queen)                                          

Morathi                                                             

Hag Queen                                                       

Hag Queen                                                       

Hag Queen                                                       

30 Witch Aelves                                             

30 Witch Aelves                                             

10 Witch Aelves/Sisters of Slaugther    

5 Khinerai Heartrenders                             

5 Khinerai Heartrenders                             

 

@CommissarRotke There is not much to add to what Thenord said. Blood Stalkers are not considered to be worth their points, even with the price reductions in the GHB19. Blood Sisters are a much better alternative for their points. But even with Blood Sisters I am not sure if they bring something to the table a SCE army is missing, besides style maybe

[Kuma]

Thanks for the feedback!!

[CommissarRotke]

8 hours ago, Thenord said:

Blood stalkers suck, period. I have 2*5 of them in my army - only because I play all snakes and need them as a tax to get the snake batallion.

If you want snake allies, go with 10 blood sisters and a hag Queen 🙂

As long as one unit is viable, I just really like the Naga look😅

7 hours ago, foxicious said:

@CommissarRotke There is not much to add to what Thenord said. Blood Stalkers are not considered to be worth their points, even with the price reductions in the GHB19. Blood Sisters are a much better alternative for their points. But even with Blood Sisters I am not sure if they bring something to the table a SCE army is missing, besides style maybe

Probably not, but agreed that Stormcast can't beat that aesthetic

thanks to both of you

[Chumphammer]

 

Played and won my first game last night

Things I learned:

1: Keep the general within 7 of my units. Stupidly left her at some points which cost the better ward

2: Hag positioning.  eerrg multiple times I made the mistake of not being within 3 of the hero phase

3: Reading the scenario. I won on scenario ( Scorched earth ) and wiping out his army bar his general, but I could have moved the sisters and a hag up once I had capped the points. 

4: Forgetting heartrenders can move after shooting on a 4+

5: not knowing that bloodshield and generals command trait were passive, as I thought I had to activate them. Cost me models on his 1^st turn as his Mangler got into my witch aelves

 

[Lucentia]

h, I almost forgot to post this in here, I have finished my Aqshy-themed Daughters of Khaine collection, currently sitting at 4440 points (until the GHB drops...) with at least one of every warscroll represented.  (I don't have any Witch Aelves with shields, but I also don't want to paint any more witch hair, so that's fine by me!)

For me DoK is one of those armies that just clicks with you, I started collecting them pre-battletome, and the release of the new models only cemented them as my favourite AoS faction, everything about them just works for me.  And I won't say that being the premiere top-tier book for a while didn't hurt, normally my armies are less spectacular in getting game results, but I took them to tourneys before we had a book, and I'll take them to tourneys even if they're not storming the top tables.

Here's a little video of my stuff:

Also the next Warhammer Champions TCG set includes DoK, and I am unreasonably excited in that announcement!