AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Grungnisson]

On 6/13/2023 at 6:57 AM, Beliman said:

So, new GHB with new rules!

It seems that we are going to play in a magic-land of ice and frost. That means that without the Magic Book, we are going to have an extra CP for non-magic Heroes with 9 or less wounds:

Another thing to point out is that we are going to have another type of enhancement for armies without any Wizard:

What do you think? What would you like to see removed or improved?

I'll have any and all the CPs anyone might left lying around. Not feeling hard done by it. ;>

[Beliman]

New rumor: KO points in the next GHB.

I don't know how to deal with this rumor/leak. It's so crazy that I don't even know where to start...

[Mnch]

i just saw the battleplans, this is the game over folks

[Azamar]

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

New rumor: KO points in the next GHB.

I don't know how to deal with this rumor/leak. It's so crazy that I don't even know where to start...

That feels like wish listing from someone salty to me, but we’ll see. 

[Grungnisson]

12 hours ago, Beliman said:

New rumor: KO points in the next GHB.

I don't know how to deal with this rumor/leak. It's so crazy that I don't even know where to start...

Well, that WOULD reign us in competitively, that's for sure. But it feels like too much of an overreaction, if you consider two things - GW tends to err on the side of caution these days when adjusting points, and with the new GHB only about to be released, there's no prediction how big of a rebalancing factor the changing meta will be. Anyway, that's the hope I'm planning to cling to.

[Beliman]

So, the full GHB has been leaked, and not sure what to think.

We recieved a new type of Artefacts (1 free as a new enhancement), that I think that they are going to be good. To take them, our army can't have any wizard or any unit that can cast spells as if it was a wizard. That allows us to use Spell in the Bottle without any problem, so that's a big point. Imo, the  Puch of Nulldust with a Voidstone seems a good to start this magic-related season.


The next thing are the Battleplans, but I'm not sure if I like how they are they work. There is a stone/paper/scissor going on, and it seems that we are not that good in some of them.

I think that Disruption can combo really well with our Mhornar trait. Going from 1CP to 3CP is a no-no for a lot of armies, and it's just a passive ability, so it's always active. If the enemy goes first, it gives as a really powerful tool, if not, we can remove their main threats.

Spoiler

It seems that there are a lot of handicaps (or buffs) that trigger when a unit run, charge, or move, and we have a lot of that in our army because if any of our skyvessels makes a moves, our embarked units "count as" they have made the same move. Let's see how it goes...

Spoiler

Geysers of Primal Magic seems nasty for any skyvessel with 2+ units in it. Let's hope that we have enough time to disembark and split our units before any geyser erupts. Good catch! (see below)

Spoiler

It's not all that bad, we can kill enemy wizards for a BOOM reaction with Feedback Overload! Let's see if Lumineth and Tzeentch are going to be happy with that.

Spoiler

Another thing that will not help our gameplay is the Wizards' Tower. We don't have Monsters to turn it to rubble, and we don't have Faction Terrain to make any use of this rule. Better have that voidstone on our heroes because that casting spells are going to be nasty.

Spoiler

Ferocius Squall seems a /feelbad battleplan. Our main features are Movement (Fly/set-up) and Shooting, and both of them are not good in this scenario.

Spoiler

And last, the Prismatic Pallisade has 10" extra range, but it's not automatic (on a 3+ roll). I don't know if we are going to see a lot of Pallisades, but if anyone plays with them, I think  it will have a high impact on our games.

Spoiler

So, what do you think about this season? Any games already played?

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Beliman

[Azamar]

For Geysers of primal magic- embarked units don’t count as contesting objectives, so I think if that did clip an embarked ironclad the units on board wouldn’t be affected?

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, Azamar said:

For Geysers of primal magic- embarked units don’t count as contesting objectives, so I think if that did clip an embarked ironclad the units on board wouldn’t be affected?

Yeah, you are totally right. Only the skyvessel should take the mw for the geyser. Good catch!

[Grungnisson]

 

YES!!!!!!!!

[Grungnisson]

And there goes my list for my next game

 

[Beliman]

Points were expected, but I hoped for Gunhauler and skywardens going down too.

The new Look Out Sit takes a lot of our specialization, maybe it's time to embrace the charging frigates of doom and hope that our dmg is enough to kill...

[Grungnisson]

Yeah, I'm less bothered about the points than the LoS!. Although that's a significant hike on Thunderers.

[Aeryenn]

On 6/28/2023 at 9:08 PM, Beliman said:

New rumor: KO points in the next GHB.

I don't know how to deal with this rumor/leak. It's so crazy that I don't even know where to start...

Thankfully it just turned out to be an invention of an unpleasent troll. I wonder why do they do that.

[ScionOfOssia]

They were probably angry that a friend playing Kharadron absolutely bodied them. 

[Mnch]

time to drink a beer and start other army

[Grungnisson]

4 hours ago, Mnch said:

time to drink a beer and start other army

Hardly the end of the world, we were in worse pickles before. The increrases on heroes are probably quite fair, to be honest and if Thunderers are affected, they'll get 10 points back in six months. 

The LoS! change is significant, but it also cuts both ways, now we can hide our heroes from enemy long range snipers. There's also no word of flying, so Endrinmaster with dirigible is completely* protected next to as few as 3 Riggers, for example. 

*outside of that 12" range, of course.

[Beliman]

That Trugg the Troll King is going to be insane to take down. If any of his 4 dice from malfunctioning Laylines is a 5, it means that we must kill him with melee weapons, and I'm not sure if we can do that:

16 wounds with a save 4+, that heal 1D3+3+1 each Hero Phase, that can use All out Defense and the Moon light to add +1 to save, and his whole army including Trugg can only be hit on 6 with ranged attacks.

What do you think? What do you expect to see for us in the Grundstock Expeditionary Force?

[Beliman]

So, our new rules for Grundstock Expeditionary Force:

So, what do you think? I'm not a fan of this supplement:

I don't like shooting two times or that we need to roll a dice we want to use our main battle trait and it's behind a 4+ wall. I don't like that our battle trait doesn't use the Code. I don't like that it feels like 40k detachments and it scares me that we can see this on 4.0 and we are going to lose subfactions for new "armies of renown" based on eaxh subfaction. I don't like that this rules have everything to make a game unfun. I don't like that promots spamming the same units again and again. I don't removes half of our heroes because they interact with other units (riggers) or The Code (Codewright). I don't like that anyone that will try this army will enrage when it will invalidated in a few months. I don't like to play a Casino-Army that everything is about rolling 4+, and if you lose you have average stats, if you win, you can smash the enemy. /rantOff

I must be wrong, very wrong.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Beliman

[Lord Krungharr]

As a non-KO player, this army of reknown is utterly insanely overpowered, and will make playing against KO even less fun than it already is.  

This entire phenomenon of Regiments and Armies of Reknown is reminiscent of late 7th ed 40k when Formations went bananas.  I don't think subfactions will be trashed in the next phase of Battletomes.  They got rid of the Warscroll Battalions, wisely IMHO, and can't fathom that they're getting feedback saying 'bring those back!'.  I just find it strange they'd give such powerful new rules to things without new models.  I'm frankly more worried that if this is a harbinger of a new edition, that means new battletomes all around!  Which is not cheap.  

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah I just see this as a way to move stock (this lines up with the old start collecting too well) but they over-tuned it way too much in comparison to the rest.

I don’t see this being a harbinger of anything major like 4th edition changes(though of course I expect a new round of better battletomes, that’s just solid money makers) and honestly if one of the merc forces had to be broken i’d take the older army over the new armies which would REEK of power creep to sell the newest minis.

Hopefully they just nerf the shooting in a quick FAQ patch when they see the issues.

That said, I Love the flavor. Expeditionary force that uses grappling lines on it’s smaller airships to zip around, willing to use trench warfare and go WW1 with their advanced weapons, bigger use of their nullstone weaponry to fight magic armies and a nice shout they call gods abominations as a scientific military force.

That’s all excellent. 👌 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[Beliman]

10 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

As a non-KO player, this army of reknown is utterly insanely overpowered, and will make playing against KO even less fun than it already is.  

Not sure if it's overpower.

Thunderers without the option to Fly High and the Khemist/Admiral buff are not a good shooting unit. It's all about that 4+ to shoot again (with AoA or we are going to shoot at 4+ to hit) that will make them really good with Special Weapons.

So, two options: if we don't hit that 4+, we are not going to do any damage. If we succeed with that 4+, our thunderers be toxic for the game.

Rng will decide for you how good this army will be.

[Satyrical Sophist]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

Not sure if it's overpower.

Thunderers without the option to Fly High and the Khemist/Admiral buff are not a good shooting unit. It's all about that 4+ to shoot again (with AoA or we are going to shoot at 4+ to hit) that will make them really good with Special Weapons.

So, two options: if we don't hit that 4+, we are not going to do any damage. If we succeed with that 4+, our thunderers be toxic for the game.

Rng will decide for you how good this army will be.

What's stopping you buffing the thunderers with Chemists or admirals? You can only bring one unit with each Hauler but transporting a hero with one and a big unit with another seems possible.

[Beliman]

17 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

What's stopping you buffing the thunderers with Chemists or admirals? You can only bring one unit with each Hauler but transporting a hero with one and a big unit with another seems possible.

Nothing. But take in mind that both buffs are wholly within, so you need a gunhauler for each hero to follow the main blob of thunderers. That means that for 15 thunderers, a Khemist, admiral and 3 gunhaulers, you are using 1300 points of your list for a 50/50 chance of a double-tap.

So, 1300 points with a 50% chance  to do less damage than before (3 gunhaulers instead of an ironclad) and 50% chance to do a lot more dmg.

I don't see that as good as some people say. I understand that the double-tap rule is really scary for a ranged army, and if you roll 4 or above, fully buffed Thunderers wil destroy anything. But if not, it turns to be worse than basic KOs. 

 

Edit: Gunhaulers can give 31" to Thunderers with 12" (Gunhauler movement) + 6" (Full Ahead) + 6" (run with command) + 3" (set-up) + 4" (Thunderers movement). Not bad at all if you want to take hide 5 thunderes and a gunhauler to accomplish the Grand Strategy or just or No Save Haven battle tactic.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Beliman

[Grungnisson]

On 9/17/2023 at 10:54 AM, Beliman said:

Not sure if it's overpower.

(...) If we succeed with that 4+, our thunderers be toxic for the game.

 

But will they, though? With -1 to Hit?

[Beliman]

10 hours ago, Grungnisson said:

But will they, though? With -1 to Hit?

Not sure. Let's see how people abuse this rules and what it works. But there are some world teams that are already training with some Army of Renown lists.

Btw, Truggs with just one 5 on Malfunctioning Leystone and Fortified Cities of Sigmar builds are a direct counter to this army, but time will tell how good it is.