AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Ser_namron]

Had a match with tzzentch and OH BOY it did not go well lol. Im not quite sure what to do against them. 

Our mobility and ranged are our biggest advantages, but Tzzentch can teleport 2 units 9" away every hero phase and they have some INSANE shooting. The conflagration coven ( might be wrong name) gives their shooting -1 to rend. That leads to blobs of horrors and flamers getting 30-60 shots at -1 rend. The flamers are doing d3 damage with +1/+2 to hit based on enemy unit size. They can EASILY blow away our ground forces, and can take out a ship or 2 a turn with focused fire.  they also have a -2 to be hit by ranged with the covens artifact and the general locus, so the mobs of flamers/horrors are hard to actually hit ( not to mention they split up when they die so you havent actually removed the threat). 

My major issue was that i lacked a proper screen, but with the low wound count of the army theirs not a ton to spare and im loathe to leave my thunderers as a screen to die. Even if i did have a screen, the movement on the models is no joke so they can get where they need to be. I tried to deploy in a corner with my ships in the back, but he killed 2 gunhaulers in the first turn, and i decided to try and kill his LoC that was giving the -1 hit locus and artifact. It took my entire army to just barely get him. then he got the initiative and we called it a game before he shot my entire army off the table. 

If i had retreated to a flank with fly high he wouldve just dropped the flamers outside 9" again and roasted me for a 2nd turn in a row. I felt liek the only chance i had was to get a double turn. 

Felt like a pretty impossible matchup, but i'd love to hear some advice. 

[Azamar]

19 minutes ago, GoddammitGary said:

And you don't want to use 4/5 of those battle line options. You have to make a decision very early on with your list design on weather you want your list to suck or have rigger/hauler battle line.. and then to access these two you limit your army options way more than you did in the last book (while fitting it in to a reduced pool of battalions)....

...there is a reason most lists look almost identical and it makes me very sad.

Even speaking as someone who’s  very pleased the new book, I agree. The battleline feels very restrictive- it’s disappointing that skyriggers are linked to the one new hero rather than being a general “battleline if KO” choice. If you didn’t want a named sky port, or did but one of the half of the choices that don’t unlock a battleline, then you’ve either got to take the new hero or stick to the old three units of arkanauts- which isn’t great for list variety. 
 

At least arkanauts are dirt cheap now, which frees up points to go elsewhere if you want your own skyport led by an admiral for example. It’s a bit of a shame, but also something an faq or future ghb could easily fix, so fingers crossed. 

[Azamar]

16 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

Had a match with tzzentch and OH BOY it did not go well lol. Im not quite sure what to do against them. 

Our mobility and ranged are our biggest advantages, but Tzzentch can teleport 2 units 9" away every hero phase and they have some INSANE shooting. The conflagration coven ( might be wrong name) gives their shooting -1 to rend. That leads to blobs of horrors and flamers getting 30-60 shots at -1 rend. The flamers are doing d3 damage with +1/+2 to hit based on enemy unit size. They can EASILY blow away our ground forces, and can take out a ship or 2 a turn with focused fire.  they also have a -2 to be hit by ranged with the covens artifact and the general locus, so the mobs of flamers/horrors are hard to actually hit ( not to mention they split up when they die so you havent actually removed the threat). 

My major issue was that i lacked a proper screen, but with the low wound count of the army theirs not a ton to spare and im loathe to leave my thunderers as a screen to die. Even if i did have a screen, the movement on the models is no joke so they can get where they need to be. I tried to deploy in a corner with my ships in the back, but he killed 2 gunhaulers in the first turn, and i decided to try and kill his LoC that was giving the -1 hit locus and artifact. It took my entire army to just barely get him. then he got the initiative and we called it a game before he shot my entire army off the table. 

If i had retreated to a flank with fly high he wouldve just dropped the flamers outside 9" again and roasted me for a 2nd turn in a row. I felt liek the only chance i had was to get a double turn. 

Felt like a pretty impossible matchup, but i'd love to hear some advice. 

I don’t really know much about the new Tzeentch book, but I’m not sure what any army could do against that to be honest.

edit: although isn’t locus of change against melee attacks? 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Azamar

[Ser_namron]

11 minutes ago, Azamar said:

dit: although isn’t locus of change against melee attacks? 

Def might be, it was over the weekend so im a bit hazy. The artifact definetely gave -1 hit from missles. So either way they had at least a -1 to be hit. 

The 28 attacks ( 9 flamers- 360 pts) with -1 rend d3 damage were really the part that just seems impossible to deal with. Thats insane damage from 18".

Edited January 20, 2020 by Ser_namron
got some numbahs wrong

[Cauthon]

46 minutes ago, GoddammitGary said:

And you don't want to use 4/5 of those battle line options. You have to make a decision very early on with your list design on weather you want your list to suck or have rigger/hauler battle line.. and then to access these two you limit your army options way more than you did in the last book (while fitting it in to a reduced pool of battalions)....

...there is a reason most lists look almost identical and it makes me very sad.

No YOU don’t want to use those battleline options. I’ve written lists that have 3 different battleline units in the same list that all fit nicely into a detachment that works nicely with the Barak I wanted for a given list. 

 

List building is a dream come true compared to our last book  

 

You say how restrictive list building is now but you are only making your own restrictions. 

 

You are making vague comments like “you have to decide if your list is going to suck or if you are using endrinriggers as battleline” that’s all on you. It’s not true at all you are just being negative and very uncreative. 

 

What ate are you trying to get accomplished in a list that you are being restricted from doing? 

[Borsuk]

3 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Had a match with tzzentch and OH BOY it did not go well lol. Im not quite sure what to do against them. 

Our mobility and ranged are our biggest advantages, but Tzzentch can teleport 2 units 9" away every hero phase and they have some INSANE shooting. The conflagration coven ( might be wrong name) gives their shooting -1 to rend. That leads to blobs of horrors and flamers getting 30-60 shots at -1 rend. The flamers are doing d3 damage with +1/+2 to hit based on enemy unit size. They can EASILY blow away our ground forces, and can take out a ship or 2 a turn with focused fire.  they also have a -2 to be hit by ranged with the covens artifact and the general locus, so the mobs of flamers/horrors are hard to actually hit ( not to mention they split up when they die so you havent actually removed the threat). 

My major issue was that i lacked a proper screen, but with the low wound count of the army theirs not a ton to spare and im loathe to leave my thunderers as a screen to die. Even if i did have a screen, the movement on the models is no joke so they can get where they need to be. I tried to deploy in a corner with my ships in the back, but he killed 2 gunhaulers in the first turn, and i decided to try and kill his LoC that was giving the -1 hit locus and artifact. It took my entire army to just barely get him. then he got the initiative and we called it a game before he shot my entire army off the table. 

If i had retreated to a flank with fly high he wouldve just dropped the flamers outside 9" again and roasted me for a 2nd turn in a row. I felt liek the only chance i had was to get a double turn. 

Felt like a pretty impossible matchup, but i'd love to hear some advice. 

I was against same tzeentch nonsense. Friend gave me the first turn and I had to deep strike my all force and just like you needed to focus all my shooting (ironclad carabiners shot some horrors, but attacking horrors makes them only stronger) to take out LoC.  Then he double turned me, and even though I was playing urbaz and used two shares of gold each turn to survive shooting, he charged me and second turn ironclad, endrinmaster and 10 thunderers were no more. Somehow I bearly won in 5th round thanks to good arcanauts positioning, riggers screening and his bad rolls, but I found that game ridiculous.

KO was pretty good tzeentch counter, but right now tzeentch outperform us in almost all ways. My friend is playing mostly tzeeentch so I might have some insight in the future, but at the moment I think that we need to keep our distance, snipe out heroes ASAP, have some bodies for objective grabbing and hope for the best. You might consider Barak nar ironsquad command hero heavy list for dispels, but that leaves us with less bodies and firepower. 

I love my KO and playing aos on hard is funny, but looking at tzeentch who gets -1 to hit, +1 rend, awesome spell casting, tons of battalions, great battline options with durability, good melee (tzaangors) or absurd shooting volume with some really easy achievable synergies makes me think are't we supposed to be shooty army? I feel like gw gave us shorter stick in aether war and we really need to work for our success. Nevertheless i’ll do my best. To the victor, the spoils. 

[Borsuk]

I agree and I'm genuinely happy that we at last have new battleline options, and I belive that KO right now is much more fun to play than it used to be, but unfortunately I also agree that our list building is still pretty restrictive:

- ww want to have option to choose if we want to go first, but that means we need to take battalion, which to be honest we don't have much. 

- to make batalion worth our time usually we need to build whole list around it and there's not enough space to add something interesting 

- it's not a bad idea to build our own skyport, but then we need to sacrifice some good gimmicks of fixed ports, and on top of that, while building a port  we have 50% less options to choose from 

- then again we can refuse to take any batalion, but we are left with milion drops and we need to hope for the best

I played some test games and I think KO is awesome, and it is in much better place than it used to be before. I really enjoy playing them, new rules and stuff, but I think gw is still afraid that KO might be overpowered and that's why there are some antysynergies, redundant abilities etc. 

I mostly play to have fun and that's why i'm trying to make some unique list like Grundstok themed,  shiples or full infantry , I will see how it works. My main issue is that I want to have everything : more than two heros, some transport, some objective grabbers, support but it is impossible. Even though we have some new battline options I still found Arkanauts essential. We need bodies. Riggers and Gunhaulers aren't meant for objective holding, but for grabbing them.  Same goes for thunderers.  Sure, they can pack a punch and are pretty durable, but I want them to be out of combat and focus their fire on whatever I found fit.  Also I think that they are still better with full rifles. Keep you distance rule is nice, but to make it work you need to: take special weapons, skipped full potential  shooting for at least one turn, than hope enemy charge you and don't wipe out you till your next shooting phase. I'd live to see 10-20 man squad thunderers with +1 attack,  +1 to hit reroling failed wound rolls at - 1 to hit but this seems to me so situational. 

I will try to be inventive with KO because there are tons of options, they are improved and fun to play, but new tome is far from perfect. 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Borsuk said:

- ww want to have option to choose if we want to go first, but that means we need to take battalion, which to be honest we don't have much

Play several armies for none of them do I see more than 2 or 3 return in most list. Battalions that are actually used are scare for every army. 

 

2 hours ago, Borsuk said:

- to make batalion worth our time usually we need to build whole list around it and there's not enough space to add something interesting

Again this is how battalions work for most elite armies. And let’s face it. If you want several ships you’re ending up pretty elite. 
 

2 hours ago, Borsuk said:

it's not a bad idea to build our own skyport, but then we need to sacrifice some good gimmicks of fixed ports, and on top of that, while building a port  we have 50% less options to choose from

50% less compared to what? 

2 hours ago, Borsuk said:

- then again we can refuse to take any batalion, but we are left with milion drops and we need to hope for the best

Yes if you don’t take battalions you are going to end up with a lot of Drops... but that’s part of the point of them  🤔 (for which there is plenty of arguments to be made as well, with our mobility I can set up in a corner and I still threaten the whole table)

 

7 hours ago, GoddammitGary said:

And you don't want to use 4/5 of those battle line options. You have to make a decision very early on with your list design on weather you want your list to suck or have rigger/hauler battle line.. and then to access these two you limit your army options way more than you did in the last book (while fitting it in to a reduced pool of battalions)....

...there is a reason most lists look almost identical and it makes me very sad.

don’t tell me you 1. Actually believe that all the units you could have as battleline if have no place in the army. Because that simple not true. And 2. Actually believe that having the option of skyriggers battleline if you take a certain hero limits you more than having only 1 unit possible as battleline. Then you don’t understand what choices are. 

sorry people. But even if you only look at it from a hyper competitive perspective having more battleline choices than before doesn’t limit you more. Can’t have your cake and eat it to. 
(doesn’t mean I suddenly think the book is flawless. But having more battleline options isn’t one of those flaws) 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Kramer

[GoddammitGary]

15 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Play several armies for none of them do I see more than 2 or 3 return in most list. Battalions that are actually used are scare for every army. 

 

Again this is how battalions work for most elite armies. And let’s face it. If you want several ships you’re ending up pretty elite. 
 

50% less compared to what? 

Yes if you don’t take battalions you are going to end up with a lot of Drops... but that’s part of the point of them  🤔 (for which there is plenty of arguments to be made as well, with our mobility I can set up in a corner and I still threaten the whole table)

 

don’t tell me you 1. Actually believe that all the units you could have as battleline if have no place in the army. Because that simple not true. And 2. Actually believe that having the option of skyriggers battleline if you take a certain hero limits you more than having only 1 unit possible as battleline. Then you don’t understand what choices are. 

sorry people. But even if you only look at it from a hyper competitive perspective having more battleline choices than before doesn’t limit you more. Can’t have your cake and eat it to. 
(doesn’t mean I suddenly think the book is flawless. But having more battleline options isn’t one of those flaws) 

100% disagree. Having bad options is worse than only one option. You don't feel cheated by a Ill thought out book with the later.

 

I know exactly what choices are and I'm forced to make the same ones each time I write the list cos the options are so bad. ALL my lists look similar because the alternatives are just hampering yourself ..and I don't even mean competetivly...just simplistically. I'm fed up thinking I've seen a cool thing to try to once again hit the road block of;

 

Once per game

Not while in a garrison

Can't do that cos your item /CT is auto chosen.

 

The books a cluster ****** of bad decisions and anti synergistic writing that activily works against the reader having fun.

 

Sure once youve written the list it's fun to play .but let's not pretend trying to make a list in the first place is anything but a chore and the illusion of choice.

[Frowny]

I don't think its nearly as dire vs. Tzeentch as you are all making it out to be.

Firstly, I think the locus -1 to hit is only in melee. He was just playing it wrong (also new to the book no doubt).

Second, flamers of tzeentch are very very fragile. 120 points for 6 wounds with a 5+ save. Literally every unit in the KO book is sturdier than that. Maybe the right strategy is just to shoot/melee them directly. 

Thirdly, several of you are worrying about not being able to take screens. That's on you all. Take screens. Make room for screens. Screens win games.

Arkonauts are very solid. Per point and with their reroll active, they are better durability than horrors or pheonix guard against rend 0 and -1 attacks (e.g. the majority of damage). At less than 9 inches, they are also the killiest things per-point in the book.  For comparison, per point, they are better than both sequitors and ogor gluttons, both in durability AND in damage output if you shoot all your pistols etc. before fighting. Their 1 use gold keeps them ahead of sequitors with either the save or hit/wound reroll. Yes, the gold is 1 time per game, but realistically, they will have done their job after that one turn, either holding a key enemy charge or shooting a key target with their pistols before it takes an objective. I ignored any of the possible buffs when mathing too, so in some skyports or near characters they might do even better.

Play arkonauts. Love arkonauts.

I'm excited we won't see them in a single giant blob like before, but 2-5 squads that get left behind on turn 1 will still provide you value if you are careful, stopping enemy deep strikes and holding home objectives in most of the missions, and shooting priority targets with their longer range guns. On top of the value they already gave in keeping you in action for that first turn as an opening screen for your ships or balloons. Carrying them around in ships is also perfectly valid

I was actually quite surprised doing the math. But it made me feel much better running several small squads. I do wish, like all of you, that the battalions were a little more flexible in allowing you to take more than a few arkonaut squads, which is disappointing, but not having turn order choice with KO seems far less bad than for some lists, since the fly high alpha is so strong. 

I think people with this book may need to remember the old adage, boys before toys, as its tempting to load up on ships and characters etc, which are what people got into KO for in the first place. 

[GoddammitGary]

6 hours ago, Azamar said:

Even speaking as someone who’s  very pleased the new book, I agree. The battleline feels very restrictive- it’s disappointing that skyriggers are linked to the one new hero rather than being a general “battleline if KO” choice. If you didn’t want a named sky port, or did but one of the half of the choices that don’t unlock a battleline, then you’ve either got to take the new hero or stick to the old three units of arkanauts- which isn’t great for list variety. 
 

At least arkanauts are dirt cheap now, which frees up points to go elsewhere if you want your own skyport led by an admiral for example. It’s a bit of a shame, but also something an faq or future ghb could easily fix, so fingers crossed. 

This guy gets it 

[GoddammitGary]

3 minutes ago, Frowny said:

I don't think its nearly as dire vs. Tzeentch as you are all making it out to be.

Firstly, I think the locus -1 to hit is only in melee. He was just playing it wrong (also new to the book no doubt).

Second, flamers of tzeentch are very very fragile. 120 points for 6 wounds with a 5+ save. Literally every unit in the KO book is sturdier than that. Maybe the right strategy is just to shoot/melee them directly. 

Thirdly, several of you are worrying about not being able to take screens. That's on you all. Take screens. Make room for screens. Screens win games.

Arkonauts are very solid. Per point and with their reroll active, they are better durability than horrors or pheonix guard against rend 0 and -1 attacks (e.g. the majority of damage). At less than 9 inches, they are also the killiest things per-point in the book.  For comparison, per point, they are better than both sequitors and ogor gluttons, both in durability AND in damage output if you shoot all your pistols etc. before fighting. Their 1 use gold keeps them ahead of sequitors with either the save or hit/wound reroll. Yes, the gold is 1 time per game, but realistically, they will have done their job after that one turn, either holding a key enemy charge or shooting a key target with their pistols before it takes an objective. I ignored any of the possible buffs when mathing too, so in some skyports or near characters they might do even better.

Play arkonauts. Love arkonauts.

I'm excited we won't see them in a single giant blob like before, but 2-5 squads that get left behind on turn 1 will still provide you value if you are careful, stopping enemy deep strikes and holding home objectives in most of the missions, and shooting priority targets with their longer range guns. On top of the value they already gave in keeping you in action for that first turn as an opening screen for your ships or balloons. Carrying them around in ships is also perfectly valid

I was actually quite surprised doing the math. But it made me feel much better running several small squads. I do wish, like all of you, that the battalions were a little more flexible in allowing you to take more than a few arkonaut squads, which is disappointing, but not having turn order choice with KO seems far less bad than for some lists, since the fly high alpha is so strong. 

I think people with this book may need to remember the old adage, boys before toys, as its tempting to load up on ships and characters etc, which are what people got into KO for in the first place. 

Unfortunately in every game I play the 10 arks i am forced to take die in a blaze of mediocrity. I'd much rather use the spare points and get a decent screen like Merc marauders or something from allies. But Thier a clunky battalion requirement and serve the singular purpose of speed bump that could easily have forfilled by almost any other chaff  in the game better ...but low drops are important...so there they are.....

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, GoddammitGary said:

Unfortunately in every game I play the 10 arks i am forced to take die in a blaze of mediocrity. I'd much rather use the spare points and get a decent screen like Merc marauders or something from allies. But Thier a clunky battalion requirement and serve the singular purpose of speed bump that could easily have forfilled by almost any other chaff  in the game better ...but low drops are important...so there they are.....

Merc marauders lose you a CP, effectively 50 points more expensive.

[Qaz]

9 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

If i had retreated to a flank with fly high he wouldve just dropped the flamers outside 9" again and roasted me for a 2nd turn in a row. I felt liek the only chance i had was to get a double turn. 

Felt like a pretty impossible matchup, but i'd love to hear some advice. 

Ya, had a game against Tzeentch (was not a Changehost) and lost myself but that's because I only had 2 heroes and teleporting on objectives doesn't work. 

If your meta is Tzeentch heavy, maybe it's time to castle up around a Khemyst with Emergency Vent artifacts for an aura of -1 to hit. Or the Intrepid Prospector battalion can push out your screen further away. 

Kill the flamers first. Don't think you can kill the LoC in one round reliably.

For most part, It's who ever gets the first in second battleround wins in this matchup. Ha.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Qaz

[Cauthon]

3 hours ago, GoddammitGary said:

100% disagree. Having bad options is worse than only one option. You don't feel cheated by a Ill thought out book with the later.

 

I know exactly what choices are and I'm forced to make the same ones each time I write the list cos the options are so bad. ALL my lists look similar because the alternatives are just hampering yourself ..and I don't even mean competetivly...just simplistically. I'm fed up thinking I've seen a cool thing to try to once again hit the road block of;

 

Once per game

Not while in a garrison

Can't do that cos your item /CT is auto chosen.

 

The books a cluster ****** of bad decisions and anti synergistic writing that activily works against the reader having fun.

 

Sure once youve written the list it's fun to play .but let's not pretend trying to make a list in the first place is anything but a chore and the illusion of choice.

Having bad options is worse than having no options? 

So you could have a heart attack and die or...... you could lose an arm or...... an eyeball. 

 

Would you like to choose a bad option or would you like to not have options and you’re just freaking dead??? 

 

There is a TON of things to complain about in this book, going from 1 battleline option to 6 IS NOT ONE OF THEM. 

 

Nothing but bad options?

Thunderers are one of our best units and part of a great battalion , endrinriggers/ skywardens are one of our best units in the book and can be battleline in ANY BARAK and are part of 2 battalions 

gunhaulers are one of our best unit and a freaking boat that provides a ton of utility on top of its profile AND can be taken in battalion

frigates are one of our main units and a boat that provides our utility and is part of a battalion. You can have a whole army of boats if you want 8 at 2k omg so restrictive!! (I guess you would need a general)

 

what units CANT be battleline???? Ironclad and characters. 1 unit in the entire book that CANT be battleline. So restrictive. 

 

If you thought it was so much better when you COULD ONLY take arkos as battleline then just do that and quit crying about all the options that you now have that you don’t like ANY of. Try just a little!

 

i seriously can’t even comprehend that you’re saying our battleline options ARE MORE RESTRICTIVE now that you have 6 options instead of 1. Every single unit in the book besides 1 and characters can be battleline.

 

with all these new books having their own allegiance abilities each with their own restrictions, list building is all about choices. You don’t get it all. If you think it’s awesome gunhaulers can be battleline, that’s a choice you have to run with. 

 

Everybody has units that are battleline with a certain general, or unlock certain battleines in certain allegiances.

Everybody has to make tough decisions.

 

if everyone is writing the same lists pls post a cpl so I can show you 3-5 TOTALLY different lists that are trying to do different things. 

 

Dont you you dare use anything as battleline besides arkos because nobody likes choices and you’re so restricted by having 6 options. 

 

Youd rather just have 1 so let’s see it. 

[novembermike]

4 hours ago, GoddammitGary said:

Unfortunately in every game I play the 10 arks i am forced to take die in a blaze of mediocrity. I'd much rather use the spare points and get a decent screen like Merc marauders or something from allies. But Thier a clunky battalion requirement and serve the singular purpose of speed bump that could easily have forfilled by almost any other chaff  in the game better ...but low drops are important...so there they are.....

10 arkanauts will die in a blaze of mediocrity because they're 90 points. They're not going to stand up to Archaeon and if they did that would be unhealthy for the game. They should be more than capable of going toe to toe with enemies that are as expensive as them or more. I feel like competitive lists will start with at least 30-40 Arkanauts in them.

[DeadpoolNakago]

Making an 1100 point list for a game tomorrow, and so I made a crazy weird list. The battleplan is weird, too but that's not why i'm posting. i'm posting because I'm on Warscroll Builder making names for my units, and I wanna share my names.  The Heroes I named through a name generator I made using names of KO in the new book. The other units...may have a theme

So, here's my list:
Army: Barak-Urbaz (Escort Wing)
General - Admiral Gunder Grungson
Hero- Endrinmaster Angwyr Aetherseek
5 Thunderers: Dead-Eye's Dark Stouts (they wear black armor)
Grundstok Gunhauler - The Whiskey Chaser
Grundstok Gunhauler - Blood, Sweat, and Beers
Arkanaut Frigate- Go Directly to Ale

For tacticly thinking people, the list is a lot of command points. I start the match with 2 extra points, my Admiral has the war wound trait, the proclamator mask artefact, and the endrinaster has the aetherquartz brooch from hysh artefact. So I have 2 extra CP round one, get a free CP ability every round, gain a CP every round and also on a 2+ at the start of the round, and gain a CP every time I spend a CP and roll a 5+. All I need left is the penumbral engine.

Guys, I may have a problem...

Anyway, for the curious, the battleplan i'm playing tomorrow (Its an FLGS league) is a plan that has a permanent prismatic palisade that runs down the center of the board and we get victory points every round for every unit we have on our opponent's half the board. 

Choo-choo, everyone.

Edited January 21, 2020 by DeadpoolNakago

[Borsuk]

5 hours ago, Kramer said:

50% less compared to what? 

Yeah, I forget to tell what I meant. We used to have 6 ammendments, footnotes and guidelines, that's what I meant.

I agree with you for most parts, and usually I build my list around some idea, or port and tbh thanks to new battline options I never struggle with minimal tax. I consider this improvement. I just mentioned some of my thoughts. Tome is not flawless, but most certainly it's not terrible. 

[cofaxest]

48 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Having bad options is worse than having no options? 

So you could have a heart attack and die or...... you could lose an arm or...... an eyeball. 

 

Would you like to choose a bad option or would you like to not have options and you’re just freaking dead??? 

 

There is a TON of things to complain about in this book, going from 1 battleline option to 6 IS NOT ONE OF THEM. 

 

Nothing but bad options?

Thunderers are one of our best units and part of a great battalion , endrinriggers/ skywardens are one of our best units in the book and can be battleline in ANY BARAK and are part of 2 battalions 

gunhaulers are one of our best unit and a freaking boat that provides a ton of utility on top of its profile AND can be taken in battalion

frigates are one of our main units and a boat that provides our utility and is part of a battalion. You can have a whole army of boats if you want 8 at 2k omg so restrictive!! (I guess you would need a general)

 

what units CANT be battleline???? Ironclad and characters. 1 unit in the entire book that CANT be battleline. So restrictive. 

 

If you thought it was so much better when you COULD ONLY take arkos as battleline then just do that and quit crying about all the options that you now have that you don’t like ANY of. Try just a little!

 

i seriously can’t even comprehend that you’re saying our battleline options ARE MORE RESTRICTIVE now that you have 6 options instead of 1. Every single unit in the book besides 1 and characters can be battleline.

 

with all these new books having their own allegiance abilities each with their own restrictions, list building is all about choices. You don’t get it all. If you think it’s awesome gunhaulers can be battleline, that’s a choice you have to run with. 

 

Everybody has units that are battleline with a certain general, or unlock certain battleines in certain allegiances.

Everybody has to make tough decisions.

 

if everyone is writing the same lists pls post a cpl so I can show you 3-5 TOTALLY different lists that are trying to do different things. 

 

Dont you you dare use anything as battleline besides arkos because nobody likes choices and you’re so restricted by having 6 options. 

 

Youd rather just have 1 so let’s see it. 

I'm happy with alot of things that is in the book, but you must admit that almost every our option have some restrictions. 

You can take Skyriggers as bl but with 220pt hero

You can take thunderers as bt but only in barak-nar

You can take frigates as bt but only in barak-zilfin

You can take gunhaulers as bt but only in barak-urbaz

You can have +1 tohit for thunderers but only outside of the ship

You can have +1 attack for thunderers but only outside of the ship

You can give -1 tohit for fumigator but only outside of the ship

Alchemist can buff your troops but only outside of the ship

Admiral command abilities useful only then he is in the ship

You can use garrison rule but can't score when using it

And I even not including aethergold and skyports restrictions 

I was lucky that my fav skyport (urbaz) let me take my fav ship (gunhaulers) as battleline in my fav battalion (escort wing) But I can imagine how frustrating it could be for someone who was not so lucky

Plus another problem is that we have too many deploy choices right now. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by cofaxest

[Borsuk]

 

47 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

I was lucky that my fav skyport (urbaz) let me take my fav ship (gunhaulers) as battleline in my fav battalion (escort wing) But I can imagine how frustrating it could be for someone who was not so lucky

Yeah, tell me about it. I think Barak mhornar might be the worst skyport in the book. Apart from the footnote and useful I think artefact, they have nothing. 

But on the other hand, I will cope with that. While I started to play KO they were already considered one of worse armies in AoS, and I had a lot of fun with them, and pretty good win ratio. I think I can have even more with better tome. I wish that there would be less antysynergies, but I have not become sky pirate, because army was broken, but to have some fun and I get plenty of it. 

[Entombet]

I want to try this list in my local lgs league, as i can do this or try dual frigate

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Zilfin
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Svaregg-Stein Illuminator Flarepistol
Aether-Khemist (90)
- Artefact: Staff of Ocular Optimisation
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Trait: Endrinprofessor
20 x Arkanaut Company (180)
- 2x Skypikes
- 2x Light Skyhooks
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
20 x Arkanaut Company (180)
- 2x Skypikes
- 2x Light Skyhooks
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Skyhooks
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Skyhooks
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Skyhooks
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Aethermatic Volley Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Iron Sky Command (130)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102

[Phasteon]

You are all far too negative about the „garrison restrictions“. 

You dont get punished or „anti synergies“ in ships, you get rewarded for leaving the ships so you actually see ypur beautifully painted skyfarers on the table and not just inside a boat

[Borsuk]

Just now, Phasteon said:

You dont get punished or „anti synergies“ in ships, you get rewarded for leaving the ships so you actually see ypur beautifully painted skyfarers on the table and not just inside a boat

You get that right. 

[cofaxest]

2 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

You are all far too negative about the „garrison restrictions“. 

You dont get punished or „anti synergies“ in ships, you get rewarded for leaving the ships so you actually see ypur beautifully painted skyfarers on the table and not just inside a boat

For me it's not about punishment or reward. It's just rule construction. You always must remember so many little nuances... And the only one thing that I can consider as BAD is that we can't score when our units are in the ship. So 1 ogor count as more models then fully loaded ironclad. (which is so stupid to be honest)

[Baron Wastelands]

6 hours ago, GoddammitGary said:

Sure once youve written the list it's fun to play .but let's not pretend trying to make a list in the first place is anything but a chore and the illusion of choice.

This has to be one of the oddest complaints I’ve seen.

I hate swimming; I mean sure, it fun when you’re there, but man, finding my trunks is a hassle.😉

Speaking personally, I’m having a whole lot of funding building lists, and I feel like it’s completely different from under the old book where every list started with 3 auto-include arkanaut blocks, where my only choice (given that I didn’t want to field arkanauts much in the first place) was how small could I make them and still have them be useful/competitive. In the end, there was pretty much one list that everyone agreed was weakly competitive, which was depressing as hell, and it was not that fun to play, for me anyway. If you preferred that, then that’s fine, of course; but I’m not pretending that I’m enjoying the variety now.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Baron Wastelands