AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[AngryPomeranian]

Blessed weapons on Vanguard Raptors with Longstrikes makes the do 4 mortal wounds on 6 or +1 normal hit?And is it worth it?

[chord]

4 hours ago, Karragon said:

Indeed, but my point was more that this isn't an Ironjawz or Kharadron army with no wizard's that you'll roll over with magic

They can only attempt one unbind per spell.  

[TalesOfSigmar]

9 hours ago, AngryPomeranian said:

Blessed weapons on Vanguard Raptors with Longstrikes makes the do 4 mortal wounds on 6 or +1 normal hit?And is it worth it?

2 Mortal Wounds and one normal wound roll

[Marzillius]

I'm going to be running this list in a couple of tournaments this spring:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Astral Templars
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Trait: Dauntless Hunters 
- Artefact: Godbeast Plate 
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)
- 3x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129
 

In one of the tournaments you get a pre-determined spell from the realm you choose for your army, and for Hysh it's Vengeful Illumination which gives +1 to hit for shooting attacks against an enemy unit. Pretty good with Ballistas. This list is otherwise designed to counter the FECCERS and specifically the Gristlegore general which my usual cavalry-based lists can't beat in combat. Instead I deepstrike down with the Ballistas (which I still don't actually like) and blow him off the board turn 1. Almost every other army in the game also runs monsters, so they will be useful in almost every matchup to remove a lynchpin unit immidiately. In later turns I can light up important units with the spell and hit them with the Ballistas rapid-fire mode on a 3+. The Sequitors will most often deepstrike along with the Ballistas to screen them from the opponent's melee units. The Dracoline Evocators will almost always get a turn 1 charge off with the Astral Templar trait, and they hit like a runaway freight train when buffed by Empower, the Pride Leader Arcanum and her command ability. I will miss Staunch Defender in almost every matchup, but I think it's worth it to get a favourable matchup against FEC.

[XReN]

12 minutes ago, Marzillius said:

I will miss Staunch Defender in almost every matchup, but I think it's worth it to get a favourable matchup against FEC.

I'm afraid that any day of the week FEC will decide who goes first against your list, so you either don't use your pre-game move or give your opponent a great headstart by throwing your units into terrorgheist's maw, whille FEC general also might get through his 5+ ward spell and mystic shield so your ballistas might not do enough to kill him. If we don't factor in hysh spell 3 ballistas hiting on 3+ won't deal enough damage on average to kill TG with full wounds and no buffs, so your strategy is pretty much relies on spell being cast and not unbound and a double turn.

[Marzillius]

11 minutes ago, XReN said:

I'm afraid that any day of the week FEC will decide who goes first against your list, so you either don't use your pre-game move or give your opponent a great headstart by throwing your units into terrorgheist's maw, whille FEC general also might get through his 5+ ward spell and mystic shield so your ballistas might not do enough to kill him. If we don't factor in hysh spell 3 ballistas hiting on 3+ won't deal enough damage on average to kill TG with full wounds and no buffs, so your strategy is pretty much relies on spell being cast and not unbound and a double turn.

Won't I be able to choose whether or not I make the Dauntless Hunters move after my opponent has decided who goes first? I'm looking at the rules but I can't see any reason for why I would be forced to make the move before who has first turn is determined.

However, the point about the general defense buffing himself makes sense. But if he takes first turn he will move up the board, probably into range of Vengeful Illumination, which on average deals 13 wounds to him with one defense buff up which is close. If he gets both defense buffs off it's going to be tough.

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, Marzillius said:

I'm going to be running this list in a couple of tournaments this spring:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Astral Templars
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Trait: Dauntless Hunters 
- Artefact: Godbeast Plate 
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)
- 3x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129

In general I would drop Sequitors in favour of another Ballista, Incantor, Azyros... but it's especially useful if you are playing against FEC and have the +1 hit spell from Hysh. Ballistas hitting on 2+ rerolling 1s is straight up nasty. You don't need Sequitors to anvil when you can absorb the attack with disposable Liberators and then drop ballistas in to kill all his monsters in one turn.

If you are running a Castellant you should try to find room for Chronomantic Cogs to reroll saves on your Dracoline squad. Otherwise I would consider switching your 1x6 Dracoline to 2x3 so you have the option to spread your Empower to ballistas around and have additional dispels & unbinds. You will (theoretically) get less value from the Arcanums CA, but in my experience its rare to get maximum value due to 1" weapon ranges.

[XReN]

1 hour ago, Marzillius said:

Won't I be able to choose whether or not I make the Dauntless Hunters move after my opponent has decided who goes first? I'm looking at the rules but I can't see any reason for why I would be forced to make the move before who has first turn is determined.

That is a tough one, personally I could not find a clear ruling on when exactly "the battle begins" but it doesn't look in your favor. 
Though I'm sure that you must make your move before the decision on who gets the first turn is made and the best you can count on is TO's judgement or roll-off with your opponent

[Lucur]

I would rather take a Knight Heraldor and get that run&charge turn 1 than rely on the Templars trait, especially when the rules aren't clear.

I've only run a unit of 3 kittycators so far, and not in an overly competitive environment,  but i've found the ability to fall back and charge invaluable. Won't count if every charge one-shots your cats, but it's there

[Phil D]

On 3/20/2019 at 2:24 PM, AdamR said:

It's a lot like a list I've been working on recently - 

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Mindlock Staff
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Units
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

With mine I've tried to keep a castellant and staunch in there to bolster the inevitable counter attack that'll be coming their way.
Also I went Mindlock Staff  as the artefact to shut down Nagash, as I seem to fight him a lot!
Skinks are there as an objective grabber. Could go Aetherwings and save 10 points, but the skinks I think are a bit better.
I could go either way on 4 Ballista's or the Comet. Or even 3 Ballista's, no skinks and an Incantor, so I have another scoring unit in Places of Arcane Power (3 Places of Power? the one where wizards score).
Lastly, I may swap out the Sequitors for 2x Liberators and 1x Judicators.

In Places of arcane power, objectives can only be held be heroes with an artefact or wizards. With only 1 wizard and him holding your only artefact you will struggle to win. If you take an objective turn 1 your opponent only has to take another objective turn one then any other for 1 turn out of 5.

voice of experience, I tried it with an Incantor with my only artefact against nighthaunt with 4 wizards! Killed all his wizards by turn 3 but by then he had 4 points and I had 1.

[Phil D]

On 3/24/2019 at 6:59 AM, Karragon said:

Interesting suggestion, magic. I'm playing at Throne of Skulls this weekend and came up against a Khorne player yesterday (old book). I've got 3 wizards and cogs in my list that I often slow down time with. The khorne player denied all but 1 of my spells that game

I played at TofS this weekend how did it go? I bet you did better than me, I came second last 😂 great fun though.

First game was Scarbrand, 3x3 flesh hounds, 3 x3 skullcrushers, 2x5 blightkings, and 3 bloodthirsters! Played places of arcane power and could have won if I hadn’t been scared of him and dropped on 2 objectives turn 1 and screened the objectives. He only had one artefact and it was at one end of his deployment so had to come to me so I could kill him .

we live and learn 

as to how to deal with Khorne generally, play the objectives not the army, kill the heroes, stay away and shoot the bejeezers out of them! Same as most armies I think.

[Karragon]

2 minutes ago, Phil D said:

I played at TofS this weekend how did it go? I bet you did better than me, I came second last 😂 great fun though.

First game was Scarbrand, 3x3 flesh hounds, 3 x3 skullcrushers, 2x5 blightkings, and 3 bloodthirsters! Played places of arcane power and could have won if I hadn’t been scared of him and dropped on 2 objectives turn 1 and screened the objectives. He only had one artefact and it was at one end of his deployment so had to come to me so I could kill him .

we live and learn 

as to how to deal with Khorne generally, play the objectives not the army, kill the heroes, stay away and shoot the bejeezers out of them! Same as most armies I think.

That's almost certainly the same guy I played against. I killed Skarbrand, 2 of the bloodthirsters, the extra bloodthirster he summoned...and lost. Bloodthirster of insensate rage's exploding MWs on 6's to wound is insane.

As for how I did. 3-2 overall, I am apparently an unpleasant opponent as for the 3rd tournament in a row I walked away with 0 favourite opponent votes 😆 I think it's the turn 1 charge with the 6 dracolines that does it...to finish 45th.

It was a very fun weekend though, much more relaxed than Heat 1 had been, everyone I met seemed more interested in having a laugh and rolling some dice than winning, that's not to say people didn't play well or have strong lists (and gorgeous armies). Getting tabled by the 2nd place finisher and his eels was a surprisingly fun thing because of how nice a chap he was.

[Phil D]

2 minutes ago, Karragon said:

That's almost certainly the same guy I played against. I killed Skarbrand, 2 of the bloodthirsters, the extra bloodthirster he summoned...and lost. Bloodthirster of insensate rage's exploding MWs on 6's to wound is insane.

As for how I did. 3-2 overall, I am apparently an unpleasant opponent as for the 3rd tournament in a row I walked away with 0 favourite opponent votes 😆 I think it's the turn 1 charge with the 6 dracolines that does it...to finish 45th.

It was a very fun weekend though, much more relaxed than Heat 1 had been, everyone I met seemed more interested in having a laugh and rolling some dice than winning, that's not to say people didn't play well or have strong lists (and gorgeous armies). Getting tabled by the 2nd place finisher and his eels was a surprisingly fun thing because of how nice a chap he was.

The guys name was Matt nick name “Salty”.  If it was him you did well he only lost one game. I managed to stay away from half his army and had a very close game with him. 

I’ve been tabled several times and enjoyed them, strange isn’t it?

[Requizen]

22 minutes ago, Phil D said:

The guys name was Matt nick name “Salty”.  If it was him you did well he only lost one game. I managed to stay away from half his army and had a very close game with him. 

I’ve been tabled several times and enjoyed them, strange isn’t it?

Being able to enjoy a losing game is a skill to cultivate, but also winning with grace and giving your opponent a good time is also a trick that many people lack, so it's good that he's that type of player. 

It's easy to just play out and stomp your opponent with no recompense, especially if your list is more honed than theirs, but being a likable winner is I think a skill that most Warhammer players could stand to learn.

[AdamR]

54 minutes ago, Karragon said:

That's almost certainly the same guy I played against. I killed Skarbrand, 2 of the bloodthirsters, the extra bloodthirster he summoned...and lost. Bloodthirster of insensate rage's exploding MWs on 6's to wound is insane.

As for how I did. 3-2 overall, I am apparently an unpleasant opponent as for the 3rd tournament in a row I walked away with 0 favourite opponent votes 😆 I think it's the turn 1 charge with the 6 dracolines that does it...to finish 45th.

It was a very fun weekend though, much more relaxed than Heat 1 had been, everyone I met seemed more interested in having a laugh and rolling some dice than winning, that's not to say people didn't play well or have strong lists (and gorgeous armies). Getting tabled by the 2nd place finisher and his eels was a surprisingly fun thing because of how nice a chap he was.

I was at ToS too, and also managed 3-2. Must have been nicer than you though as I got 2 fave game votes 

I was expecting... fluffier lists than the GT so I took some Vanguard, but soon wished I'd brought my GT list!

[AdamR]

1 hour ago, Phil D said:

In Places of arcane power, objectives can only be held be heroes with an artefact or wizards. With only 1 wizard and him holding your only artefact you will struggle to win. If you take an objective turn 1 your opponent only has to take another objective turn one then any other for 1 turn out of 5.

voice of experience, I tried it with an Incantor with my only artefact against nighthaunt with 4 wizards! Killed all his wizards by turn 3 but by then he had 4 points and I had 1.

2 Wizards - I've got the Evocators as well!

[Phil D]

Regarding favorite games, probably not the right place, but I find I really enjoy games where fun things happy that can be related to a story, (I'm a more narrative player than competitive, but I do want to win) despite theh score; I can remember many games where funny things happened but can't remember the scores.

In my first game on Sunday I played a guy with Archeon, a great unclean one and some other stuff. He got Archeon into combat with some liberators and a Gryph Hound, killed the Libs but ignored the Gryph. After I attacked he asked if I was retreating but I said no, I wanted to pin Archeon because he had said he wanted to kill my Stardrake with him, the stardrake was in combat with others from his army and being worn down. I then attacked with a Castellant that he killed with the slayer sword and described in a very funny way how the sword sucked up his soul, but failed to kill the Gryph. next turn I attacked with a Relictor, who he killed along with the Gryph. By now the Stardrake was down to 2 wounds, he moved his units out of the way, charged and killed the Stardrake,

After the game chatting with his mates he told them how Archeon killed the stardrake but I said "hang on he stood on one side of the board fighting a Gryph Hound while your army fought the Stardrake and then ran over and killed him when he had two wounds left!" we spent ten minutes chatting about that and other fun things that had happened, and nobody asked who won or what the score was, they were more interested in the funny things. It doesn't always work with some players because they are there to win, but most people will engage with it and join in.

[PJetski]

Best stormhost for Dracoths? I'm thinking Astral Templars

[XReN]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Best stormhost for Dracoths? I'm thinking Astral Templars

Why them? And if that is about pre-game move I ask you to share your thoughts on the rules issue I see with it: do you decide to make this move before or after you know who takes the first turn?

When I think about straight up buffing melee units Celestial Vindicators are all I can think about.  

[Galdar777]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

Best stormhost for Dracoths? I'm thinking Astral Templars

Why not hammers and grav bomb them for guaranteed charge

[PJetski]

16 minutes ago, XReN said:

Why them? And if that is about pre-game move I ask you to share your thoughts on the rules issue I see with it: do you decide to make this move before or after you know who takes the first turn?

When I think about straight up buffing melee units Celestial Vindicators are all I can think about.  

Dauntless Hunters activates after setup but before the battle begins. At that point you don't know the turn order, but it's fairly easy to predict who will want to go first based on the armies and who finished deploying first. 

I lean towards AT for the 6" move to help get in position for shooting and charges immediately as well as +1 hit army-wide against MONSTERs. The best support for Dracoths is a ballista core and AT is one of the best stormhosts for the ballista drop.

Dracoths are more than just melee units - their breath attack is significant. CV is a good choice, though; the command ability is very strong with their multi-weapon melee profiles. Rerolling hit1 on the charge is a good effect, but it can be replicated with a Knight-Azyros (and that would effect the breath, too). Ideally you don't want to retreat & charge Dracoths so you can use their breath weapon freely every shooting phase, but the breath attack could kill whatever you're engaged with and allow you to charge again.

4 minutes ago, Galdar777 said:

Why not hammers and grav bomb them for guaranteed charge

Too expensive. You can get turn 1 charges through Astral Templars without spending points and command points on Gavriel, and then you still have +1 hit against MONSTERS for your whole army.

I would consider using Hammers for Vandus because of his command ability but nearly 300pt for Vandus is too much.

I think the choice is between CV and AT right now.

[Nos]

27 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Dauntless Hunters activates after setup but before the battle begins. At that point you don't know the turn order, but it's fairly easy to predict who will want to go first based on the armies and who finished deploying first. 

I lean towards AT for the 6" move to help get in position for shooting and charges immediately as well as +1 hit army-wide against MONSTERs. The best support for Dracoths is a ballista core and AT is one of the best stormhosts for the ballista drop.

Dracoths are more than just melee units - their breath attack is significant. CV is a good choice, though; the command ability is very strong with their multi-weapon melee profiles. Rerolling hit1 on the charge is a good effect, but it can be replicated with a Knight-Azyros (and that would effect the breath, too). Ideally you don't want to retreat & charge Dracoths so you can use their breath weapon freely every shooting phase, but the breath attack could kill whatever you're engaged with and allow you to charge again.

Too expensive. You can get turn 1 charges through Astral Templars without spending points and command points on Gavriel, and then you still have +1 hit against MONSTERS for your whole army.

I would consider using Hammers for Vandus because of his command ability but nearly 300pt for Vandus is too much.

I think the choice is between CV and AT right now.

Tempest Lords might be fun. With a lot of CP generation  you can use the CA on multiple Dracoth units to re-roll wounds of 1 increasing the likliehood of Intolerable Damage occurring. Hardly profound but it’s not risky either.

[PJetski]

5 minutes ago, Nos said:

Tempest Lords might be fun. With a lot of CP generation  you can use the CA on multiple Dracoth units to re-roll wounds of 1 increasing the likliehood of Intolerable Damage occurring. Hardly profound but it’s not risky either.

I think I would rather run a single unit of Dracoths to give them buffs like Warding Lantern, Azyrite Halo, Celestial Blades, etc.

It just seems like every time I try to build a Dracoth list I end up running Dracolines instead because they are more efficient...

[Nos]

5 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I think I would rather run a single unit of Dracoths to give them buffs like Warding Lantern, Azyrite Halo, Celestial Blades, etc.

It just seems like every time I try to build a Dracoth list I end up running Dracolines instead because they are more efficient...

They’re sub optimal in a straight comparison certainly. Also you can take a big unit of Dracolines and focus them with buffs you say.  A unit of 2 of anything is vulnerable. Feel like you need a Stardrake if you’re going Dracoth heavy.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Nos

[PJetski]

In other news the Hallowed Knight battalions were leaked online. I won't post them but I will say that the Hammerstrike Force ability is interesting, but nothing special. The unique Lords of the Storm is still minimum 7 heroes, so it can never be used in 2000pt games.

Overall a lot of wasted potential again just like with Hammers of Sigmar.