AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Richelieu]

@Freejack02 @DanielFM those are all thoughts that went through my mind when building the list and I think they are worthy of testing to see which performs the best in real world situations.  I could definitely see swapping the Venator for an Azyros.  And if you're into putting all your eggs in one basket then also swapping the prime for LAoT.  

I'll have to use proxies to test though... Lots of other new units to buy and build before getting a bazillion Castigators.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Richelieu

[Kugane]

2 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

How? If you're assuming a 4+ save for the target, the damage disparity vs 160 points of Castigators (buffed with Empower + LA CA) and 160 points of Judicators is 1.1 dmg (3.57 vs 2.57). Adjusted to 100 points, that's ~2.22 C vs  ~1.60 J. 

Different assumptions or unit sizes?

Sorry, missed your comment earlier :). I used a unit of 3 castigators and a unit of 5 judicators as a base and adjusted them to a similar points value. Castigators are better than Judis fully buffed, but hurricane raptors and ballistas in 18" range do slightly more damage for similar points and don't require buffs, which is pretty much 1CP you save as well. They are not useless, but they aren't the best in their role either. I personally wish castigators were battleline, if they were, they would be a good contender for judis. Somehow the way their damage looks like, being decent at what they do, but at the low end of the spectrum of ranged units, it just feels like the unit was meant to be battleline, but it was scrapped at a later point.

Deepstriking a big unit of 18 can be a lot of fun though, but you won't be able to empower them in the same turn, which is the other flaw... They kind of have to be set up on the turn you want to use them already to be able to buff them.

I wish setting up from the celestial realm occured in the hero phase for that reason, so you can at least buff the units that come down ><.

[Freejack02]

39 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I'll have to use proxies to test though... Lots of other new units to buy and build before getting a bazillion Castigators.

Fortunately you can find them for cheap on Ebay - lots of players dumping them. I might give it a shot, it would be a nice alternative to Sequitor spam.

[Kugane]

58 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

@Freejack02 @DanielFM those are all thoughts that went through my mind when building the list and I think they are worthy of testing to see which performs the best in real world situations.  I could definitely see swapping the Venator for an Azyros.  And if you're into putting all your eggs in one basket then also swapping the prime for LAoT.  

I'll have to use proxies to test though... Lots of other new units to buy and build before getting a bazillion Castigators.

Have you considered running some screening units for your castigators? I think you could drop the judicators and get some liberators in, that way you can even save yourself 60 command points and go for a 4th wave of attacks on turn 2. If you fit in some evocators that can be even more insane tbh (which can also be used for screening if needed)

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

Have you considered running some screening units for your castigators? I think you could drop the judicators and get some liberators in, that way you can even save yourself 60 command points and go for a 4th wave of attacks on turn 2. If you fit in some evocators that can be even more insane tbh (which can also be used for screening if needed)

Here's a variant with a sequitur screen.  You could swap the 20 sequitors for 10 evocators of that's your fancy.  The list's offense would be off the charts if you did, but it wouldn't be as good at protecting the castigators or controlling the board.

[Huntho]

Hey all, 

Just getting back into the hobby as a whole, was wondering what the best stormhost was (rules wise) for a sacrosanct chamber based army? 

[Kugane]

20 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Here's a variant with a sequitur screen.  You could swap the 20 sequitors for 10 evocators of that's your fancy.  The list's offense would be off the charts if you did, but it wouldn't be as good at protecting the castigators or controlling the board.

Lovely list! Indeed, did some calculations and you can pretty much delete problematic units turn 1. Even a Nagash can be gone in 1 turn it seems.

[Lord_Orzhov]

So i have been experimenting alot with the ballista, from personal experience i found it too swingy and not as reliable compared to just bringing more bow judicators, sure its 60 pts more but they are consistent as fire support, also i like chain lightning on a SE wizard since it can camp with the judicators at that 24 inch range. Thoughts?

[Kugane]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Orzhov said:

So i have been experimenting alot with the ballista, from personal experience i found it too swingy and not as reliable compared to just bringing more bow judicators, sure its 60 pts more but they are consistent as fire support, also i like chain lightning on a SE wizard since it can camp with the judicators at that 24 inch range. Thoughts?

At which range are you generally using your Ballista?

[Lord_Orzhov]

16 minutes ago, Kugane said:

At which range are you generally using your Ballista?

I use both modes depending on the situation/ how close an enemy is but generally it would be long range mode until there is an immediate threat, dont get me wrong ballista is good on paper but there has been those times where i miss on the initial shot or i get 1 on the ammount of hits.  There is also the ordinator option but thats a 140 tax and its dependant on how many ballistas you run to make him worth while.

[Lord_Orzhov]

Another thing im testing is fulminators vs evocators on dracolines, fulms has that survivability and charge devastation, but evocs on dracos have more bodies for the points, less survivability, but have access to magic/unbind,i need to math out which of the 2 are better at wounding overall later

[Kugane]

8 minutes ago, Lord_Orzhov said:

I use both modes depending on the situation/ how close an enemy is but generally it would be long range mode until there is an immediate threat, dont get me wrong ballista is good on paper but there has been those times where i miss on the initial shot or i get 1 on the ammount of hits.  There is also the ordinator option but thats a 140 tax and its dependant on how many ballistas you run to make him worth while.

Ordinator doesn't become worth the points until you have at least 3 Ballistas as far as I know, and even then, the difference is minimal at best and limits you to having all ballistas clustered together.

If you are mostly using the long range shots you might indeed be better off with judicators. A ballista deals about 1,1 damage at long range, or 2,2 damage at short range against a 4+ save target. Judicators aren't that far behind to the short range shot either, dealing about 2 damage per shot for a unit of 5, so about 1,29 damage per 100 points.

So Judicators would be dealing more damage if you can't get your ballistas in 18" range easily. They are far less situational too :). I personally still prefer the ballistas though (love the looks of them).

[Lord_Orzhov]

Same i really like the look of the ballista but it feels it's more of same stuff we already got in terms of firing support, my suggestion is having a 30 inch single shot /hits on 2   /Minus 3 /6 damage and a 15 inch mode which would fire 6 shots /hits on 4 /minus 1 /2 damage, then we can adjust pounts accordingly, the sniper rifle and the shotgun approach.

[Lord_Orzhov]

As a side note  im gonna buy the new knight incantor in the magazine, i personally think it looks more cool than the 1 from the soul wars box, also the shoulder pads haven't cut in way where ppl are forced to use green stuff to make it decent

[Lord_Orzhov]

I also heard on a certain podcast about the meta and tier lists, one of the complaints you could say about SE, are that they are poor at handling horde armies or units that can just back on the field, by that logic it could be better to use more units with more bodies, and not rely  too much on hero hammer. Also  give that drakesworn templar a second thought (although it is cool)since its one massive point costed target, what i am saying is that generally having more bodies on the field to help fend off other horde armies or have more options in capping objectives might be beneficial.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Lord_Orzhov

[cooleyo]

About evocators. 3 from the soul wars box then 2 with grandstave. Since the maths are very similar, it's about reaching over the brethren rather than actual attack stats.

In a game, I had a unit of 5 between a rock and a hard place, and only 3  could hit because of the 1 inch reach. Get higher reach!

Edited July 23, 2018 by cooleyo

[CountryMou3e]

6 hours ago, Huntho said:

Hey all, 

Just getting back into the hobby as a whole, was wondering what the best stormhost was (rules wise) for a sacrosanct chamber based army? 

Hammers of sigmar and anvils of heldenhammer are both strong. Depends on your list comp and playstyle though!

[Black Blade]

1 hour ago, CountryMou3e said:

Hammers of sigmar and anvils of heldenhammer are both strong. Depends on your list comp and playstyle though!

I haven't gotten the new army book yet but how do the new Celestial Vindicators rate?

[DanielFM]

40 minutes ago, Black Blade said:

I haven't gotten the new army book yet but how do the new Celestial Vindicators rate?

It's quite nice. Reroll 1s to hit if you charged, +1 attacks to all combat weapons Command ability, and the Command Trait and Artifact aren't half bad.

[GeneralZero]

Speaking about the new upcoming miniatures: Aventis Firestrike on tauralon. 

Well, for a nighthaunt player, the new black coach (pre order next week-end same time than the tauralon) is a no brainer: superb miniature, efficient on the battlefield, this is a must have. But the tauralon? Yes, the sculpt didn't do the unanimity, mostly due to the questionable head of this hybrid monster. 

But what do you think about its warscroll, efficiency, and points value? Is this the new stardrake?

[cooleyo]

The command ability and spell of the LAoT means that

1) you're trying to get the charge off by running and charging (i.e. requiring the synergy of LAoT and Heraldor and potentially Chronomantic Cogs ensless spell) and discounting any Staunch Defender

2) you want to shove your flying mage down the throat of the enemy: both to help your shooting and to do a small explosion of mortal wounds.

For my part I actually prefer the LAoGryphCharger instead, both for its CA (boost sacrosanct stuff) and its spell (heal d3 or d6 wounds).

Edited July 23, 2018 by cooleyo

[Lord_Orzhov]

It comes down to if the extra 100 pts is worth the different abilities and CA for the LA on tauro vs griff/draco.  It might be worth it if you really want to get that charge off but you are probably running cogs/ gavriel too.

[Khadral]

Do anyone has some feedback about crossbow judicators? How do they perform? Based on my calculation they should do more damage in almost any situation, but is it worth it considering the halved range? And what about the special weapon? The crossbow seem to be more effective VS hordes while the bow performs better against heroes

[Kugane]

6 minutes ago, Khadral said:

Do anyone has some feedback about crossbow judicators? How do they perform? Based on my calculation they should do more damage in almost any situation, but is it worth it considering the halved range? And what about the special weapon? The crossbow seem to be more effective VS hordes while the bow performs better against heroes

I personally think the range is just too short, forcing you to deepstrike them way too close and easily getting charged the turn after, which will likely result in losing the unit entirely. You could however run the crossbow ones together with a unit of sequitors for example, and deepstrike the with the sequitors screening them for you and ready to charge next turn. They will still likely get shot off the table, but I think normal judicators with bows do too, so that doesn't make a huge difference in my opinion.

[Lord Ein]

Hello fellow stormcast players!

i’m starting out with SCE and wanted to get your thoughts on my «centerpiece» units, which will be, hold your horses, 2units of 6 prosecutors with celestial hammers, planning to drop them with scions. 

My big question, havent played a match yet, what special weapons should I put on them? Leaning towards grandhammers and/or axes. 

I know they’re not going to carry games, but.. they’re going to look amazing. Is there a hero I also should drop down with them? Wanted azyros but he feels redundant with the already rerolling 1s with paired hammers