AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Erdemo86]

280? 😂 omg, why? Evocators are better than anhilators atm. And evos are even not thaat good.. can someone make the math on evos vs anhilators pls, so people see that they are not that good.. the only thing they are better in is there save but it’s still 9 wounds vs 15.. so not so much tanky.

Evos do a average of 5 Mortal wounds and are mages.

Anhilators do an average of 3,5 mortal wounds when they charge.

Evos have 15 wounds, Anhilators have 9.

only thing they are better in is there save.also move 4 vs 5.

 

Anhilators vs Evos Damage Profile. Not considering that reroll wounds with there spell.

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Erdemo86

[rosa]

Pretty disappointing warscroll. 

[Marcvs]

1 minute ago, rosa said:

Pretty disappointing warscroll. 

and people are already calling for them to be 300 points, I'll never understand why stormcast ellicit these reactions all the time (it was the same with the stormkeep rules)

[Erdemo86]

12 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

and people are already calling for them to be 300 points, I'll never understand why stormcast ellicit these reactions all the time (it was the same with the stormkeep rules)

I agree to 100%, stormcast gets always all the hate, even if they are bad. Comparing them to other bad units and saying there better than them so make them more expensive... compare them to lumineth and they are garbage, even at 180 points... if anhilators would be 5 models for something like 220 points, they still wouldn’t be op.

stormcast are low tier atm, and not a good army. So let don’t compare to their already bad units and compare them to much worse units, that’s the hate stormcast philosophy. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Erdemo86

[jeanfluflu]

6 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

and people are already calling for them to be 300 points, I'll never understand why stormcast ellicit these reactions all the time (it was the same with the stormkeep rules)

Well judging by my close circle of new players big numbers always get people nervous.

I got things like "2+ save!, This is unkillable stormcasts are so broken" 
"10" aura that does MW !? OMG this is crazy they can roll over everyone"

Etc...etc, they didn't realized until i explained to them that the MW the turn they arrived is acutally something that play against these dudes (making the charge harder when you remove the closest model to them).

Things that are trivial like "reroll charge" are considered OP because reasons i guess (statistically a 9" charge does not becomes easier when you roll for it a second time).

by all mean i don't consider this unit OP or bad, they are simply a good threat that force our opponent to deploy and play a certain way to prevent deep strikes (i mean since 1st edition people have learned to do that already).
But if the go over 170pts i'll play dracoth over them any day of the week.

Edited June 7, 2021 by jeanfluflu

[Erdemo86]

Everything over 150/160 would make them not playable.. go and take evos, dracothian guard or evo cats. All just better. No one thinking of capturing objectives, stormcast have already a low model count, so you can’t compare them to other units in other army which have access to a lot of big units. People were complaining about judicators and Evocators back in the time.. now look where we are..

Even if they would increase the save of other paladins to 3+ they would be better.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Erdemo86

[jeanfluflu]

32 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Everything over 150/160 would make them not playable.. go and take evos, dracothian guard or evo cats. All just better. No one thinking of capturing objectives, stormcast have already a low model count, so you can’t compare them to other units in other army which have access to a lot of big units. People were complaining about judicators and Evocators back in the time.. now look where we are..

True, there's a tendency at play here to analyze things "in the void", without context, synergies and other elements.

I'll not blame people though as it is a phenomenon that is inherently pushed by the nature of these preview:
simple focus on lone units, emphasizing the stats and warscroll...etc.

maybe there's a command ability that will allow these chaps to be great, a spell or a prayer...we don't know.

So yeah, we end up on that situation.
Big numbers and warscroll leaving you compare to your own units: "well my elites only has a 4+ save....ect".

Edited June 7, 2021 by jeanfluflu

[Erdemo86]

31 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

True, there's a tendency at play here to analyze things "in the void", without context, synergies and other elements.

I'll not blame people though as it is a phenomenon that is inherently pushed by the nature of these preview:
simple focus on lone units, emphasizing the stats and warscroll...etc.

maybe there's a command ability that will allow these chaps to be great, a spell or a prayer...we don't know.

So yeah, we end up on that situation.
Big numbers and warscroll leaving you compare to your own units: "well my elites only has a 4+ save....ect".

That’s what I mean, you can’t compare with something like for example brutes. Lets say there same as brutes but if you have ironjaws you have what, 3x 20 ardboys + a lot of other things. A wArchanter that gives you +1 damage.. 

if you have stormcast you allreafy have a low models count so you need more punch for your points.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Erdemo86

[PrimeElectrid]

Anywhere from 180 down I reckon these guys are playable if only as a single unit to cause mischief. Over this though and you won’t see them.

Anybody complaining about either special rule has clearly never played Stormcast and never actually had to contend with the practicalities of 9” charges without bonuses to charge, so they don’t know what they are taking about.

Equally if the people who cannot screen out 10” could make themselves known for my next tournament that would be great 😁

Edited June 7, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[PJetski]

I definitely wouldn't play Annihilators at 180 per 3.

In second edition ruleset I wouldn't pay more than 140 for 3 Annihilators, and I think they would be a competitive choice at 130. They're worse than Evocators in terms of damage output and the 2+ save isn't worth as much as people think.

[jeanfluflu]

4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I definitely wouldn't play Annihilators at 180 per 3.

In second edition ruleset I wouldn't pay more than 140 for 3 Annihilators, and I think they would be a competitive choice at 130. They're worse than Evocators in terms of damage output and the 2+ save isn't worth as much as people think.

if they were 140pts it would be a scandal for everyone outside stormcast players, i mean people still have PTSD about sequitors even these days.

but let's compare them to see where it goes with them costing 140pts:
At the same cost approximately you can have 5 sequitors.

For 20 more points you have one less wound but you can can reroll charges and you make 10att rend1 2dmgs with a 2+ save and a bunch of mortal wound (an average of 3 or 4 on the charge and maybe another 2 when they deep strike).

5 Sequitors can do 7att rend1 2dmgs that they can reroll to hit in addition to 4 att with no rend and 1 dmg

On stats we're at 3,95 wounds on a 4+ save for the annihilators (if you add the Mw we're at 8 or 9 wounds on a target the turn they deep strike).

On stats we're at 4,28 wounds on a 4+ save for the sequitors and that's pretty much it.

So in conclusion they're beefyier only against regular attacks (and we know how many MW AoS goes with nowadays) and can get additionnal MW when they charge (on average between 3 and 4) for a unit of 3 guys.
They do almost twice as much damages than sequitors do as well thanks to the MW rules (needless to say this is conditional to the charge roll, the ability to deep strike where you need them...etc).

But they are less of them than sequitors, they're probably not battlelines as well.

So yeah they can be good for what they do, and their big stature combined with the fact that they are presented as big beefy dudes with armor and shields certainly contribute to the scary factor they ignited.

Let's wait for the 3rd edtition ruleset for these dudes, there's good chances that GW would like to pump these up to sell a good amount of them :).
Wait and see.

[PJetski]

Why compare Annihilators to Sequitors when the obvious comparison are Retributors/Evocators? Sequitors are not only an unplayable unit right now, but they also fill a different role 

Edited June 7, 2021 by PJetski

[Erdemo86]

Now I’m really afraid to see Praetors, hope they are better.. hoped for some more elite warscrolls with higher points like custodes. Not some weaker Evocators.. the whole lore gave me hope, new armors, more elite... 

now people compare them with brutes and sequitors and paladins that no one plays.. who plays paladins,brutes or sequitors they days?

i would not be surprised if those vindictors are just libs with range 2... whoever writes stormcast warscrolls, needs to be fired.

you wanna compare them with other units, try comparing them with Hearthguard berzerkers my friends, because they are tanky.

140 points, 10 wounds, 4+ ward save, Same Attack profile  as anhillators but they are 5!!! Even if you add the mortal wounds they do the Same damage. And I don’t have considered that’s it’s easy for HB to get a 3+ save + a ranged attack..

So yeah let’s make them 280 points because they are stormcast... 😇😂

Like I said if they would be 140/150 points they still are not close to op..

Edited June 7, 2021 by Erdemo86

[PrimeElectrid]

>if they were 140pts it would be a scandal for everyone outside stormcast players, i mean people still have PTSD about sequitors even these days.
 

how on earth do these people cope with Fireslayers, OBR, DOK, LRL who are both tankier and deadlier?

[Erdemo86]

12 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

>if they were 140pts it would be a scandal for everyone outside stormcast players, i mean people still have PTSD about sequitors even these days.
 

how on earth do these people cope with Fireslayers, OBR, DOK, LRL who are both tankier and deadlier?

It’s all stormcast hate man... everyone can but stormcast not, because they are the poster boys.. and Gw hears them..

even in our community the first reply was, oh golden boys again.. look 2+ save.. how op is that..

Edited June 7, 2021 by Erdemo86

[CommissarRotke]

20 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I really like the minimum size going to 3. My fear is that they will be too expensive (due to the 2+ save and all those abilities) for 9 wounds in a world with so many MWs

EDIT: mayyybe we'll get some MW protection via allegiance abilities / stormhosts ^^

 

new priest prayer adds a ward save https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/07/cause-more-magical-mayhem-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-with-these-prayers-and-endless-spells/

[jeanfluflu]

Just now, CommissarRotke said:

new priest prayer adds a ward save https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/07/cause-more-magical-mayhem-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-with-these-prayers-and-endless-spells/

hell yeah, i'm loving the bonus 2+ smite to finish off an opponent during the command phase if needed

[Marcvs]

3 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

new priest prayer adds a ward save https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/07/cause-more-magical-mayhem-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-with-these-prayers-and-endless-spells/

 

yeah, well, I generally ignore 6+ ward saves unless they are on very large units (our annihilators would gain on average... 1.5 wounds), and this is on a 4+ which seems unnecessarily difficult... maybe there will be some bonuses to prayers, since they seem to become more like spell casting

[CommissarRotke]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

yeah, well, I generally ignore 6+ ward saves unless they are on very large units (our annihilators would gain on average... 1.5 wounds), and this is on a 4+ which seems unnecessarily difficult... maybe there will be some bonuses to prayers, since they seem to become more like spell casting

hopefully yeah, I know it's meh but as a universal I'll take it. Waiting for the book before I griped about rules. Sad that our bravery is still 7 tho

[TheGrayKing]

To everyone who thinks I'm being ridiculous when I say Annihilators will be 280 (which I know is high, but if I expect the value to be high then I'm pleasantly surprised when it's cheaper and if it's not, oh well). Here's why I believe they won't be valued around the 140 points area like many of you hope.

1. Games Workshop thinks SCE are busted.

2. The AOS community is very vocal about their disdain for SCE.

3. We're supposed to be an "elite" army, so GW will make sure we don't have anything cheap.

4. We're going into a new Edition, GW is going to hike points values to try and "rebalance" the game.

[Andalf]

I am curious if a Lord Arcanums cycle of the Storm ability can be used on the same model more than once a turn?  I’m contemplating bringing a Tauralon, Gryph charger and then footie on Dais Arcanum (hopefully) and they could get pretty interesting busting open flasks on last wounds and being brought back to life, or tanking a big guys attacks and coming back for the other Lord to smack him in the head too.  I like the idea of the list anyway and was thinking it could go 2-3 or even surprise some better lists in my area.

 

Lord Arcanum on Tauralon

Lord Arcanum on Gryphcharger

Lord Arcanum

Knight Incantor

10 x Sequitors

5 x Sequitors

5 x Sequitors

5 x Evocators

5 x Evocators

Cleansing Phalanx

Dais Arcanum

Celestian Vortex

Everblaze Comet

 

I’m 90% sure that the Sequitors and Evocators + the battalion and all those endless spells are a waste of points, but I was hoping that here I would at least be able to get a few options from you guys on that front.  I figured the CP and artefact would be helpful with all the characters running around, and the spells for additional damage and to force my opponent to move around a bit.  The Lords will try and hit a flank with the 10 sequitors and one unit of evocators dropping in with them, and the other squads will try and roll down the middle and take punches or deploy in the sky to come down on objectives at the right time.

I’m willing to swap for other units and would love to also hear some about which staves/traits/stormhosts are good for this wizardly approach?

[Andalf]

.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Andalf
Trippost.....

[Andalf]

.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Andalf
Doublepost

[Nizrah]

5 minutes ago, Andalf said:

I am curious if a Lord Arcanums cycle of the Storm ability can be used on the same model more than once a turn?  I’m contemplating bringing a Tauralon, Gryph charger and then footie on Dais Arcanum (hopefully) and they could get pretty interesting busting open flasks on last wounds and being brought back to life, or tanking a big guys attacks and coming back for the other Lord to smack him in the head too.  I like the idea of the list anyway and was thinking it could go 2-3 or even surprise some better lists in my area.

 

Lord Arcanum on Tauralon

Lord Arcanum on Gryphcharger

Lord Arcanum

Knight Incantor

10 x Sequitors

5 x Sequitors

5 x Sequitors

5 x Evocators

5 x Evocators

Cleansing Phalanx

Dais Arcanum

Celestian Vortex

Everblaze Comet

 

I’m 90% sure that the Sequitors and Evocators + the battalion and all those endless spells are a waste of points, but I was hoping that here I would at least be able to get a few options from you guys on that front.  I figured the CP and artefact would be helpful with all the characters running around, and the spells for additional damage and to force my opponent to move around a bit.  The Lords will try and hit a flank with the 10 sequitors and one unit of evocators dropping in with them, and the other squads will try and roll down the middle and take punches or deploy in the sky to come down on objectives at the right time.

I’m willing to swap for other units and would love to also hear some about which staves/traits/stormhosts are good for this wizardly approach?

You there will be new book in like a month of half? Also new edition... There is no much sense therocrafting now

[Marcvs]

21 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

new priest prayer adds a ward save https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/07/cause-more-magical-mayhem-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-with-these-prayers-and-endless-spells/

thinking again about this: the good thing is that bless can be used on a friendly unit, somewhat increasing the utility of allied priests (like that cheeky runelord to dispel your own everblaze comet)