AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Marcvs]

39 minutes ago, baiardo said:

The specific stats and rules for Ven Brecth are in the morathi book right?

Ven Brecht has no special profile. He "exists" only in the rules for the special battalion which is similar to the Stormkeep Patrol

http://wahapedia.ru/aos/factions/stormcast-eternals/Ven-Brecht-s-Black-Watch

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

So Myrmidesh Painbringers can basically wipe our battleline units with this?? The "in addition to" is really the kicker here--even with an attack profile of *one* all they need is a 6, and any 2 wound model is gone

The rules for Myrmidesh Painbringers do not surprise me at all.

After all, it is almost impossible to find units that STRUGGLE to wipe out or at least overwhelm SCE battleline at same points value.

The Painbringers unit is just one more guest joining the fray.

[jhamslam]

Man reading the DoK and Slaanesh updates, our large ass tome is pathetic, it needs like a complete head to toe rework

[Marcvs]

13 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

Man reading the DoK and Slaanesh updates, our large ass tome is pathetic, it needs like a complete head to toe rework

look at the bright side: we might get this kind of update too in the not too far future! considering how bad the situation is now, the only direction is up! (hopefully...) [starts whistling Monthy Python]

jokes aside: I don't see these updates changing a whole lot of the DoK/HoS external balance so far

[jhamslam]

4 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

look at the bright side: we might get this kind of update too in the not too far future! considering how bad the situation is now, the only direction is up! (hopefully...) [starts whistling Monthy Python]

jokes aside: I don't see these updates changing a whole lot of the DoK/HoS external balance so far

Its makes them quite good imo

Slaanesh now has a lot of options, theyre incentivized to cause plink damage over wiping things out. Glutos Is amazing for 400 and Sigvald for 260 puts Vandus to shame

DoK got a lot of balancing but they also got some kickass points reductions and great subfactions. I legit think theyre better than the mono build army they were previously

If we got a revised books with better subfactions, battalions and points reductions, id be happy. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by jhamslam

[Marcvs]

4 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

Its makes them quite good imo

Slaanesh now has a lot of options, theyre incentivized to cause plink damage over wiping things out. Glutos Is amazing for 400 and Sigvald for 260 puts Vandus to shame

DoK got a lot of balancing but they also got some kickass points reductions and great subfactions. I legit think theyre better than the mono build army they were previously

If we got a revised books with better subfactions, battalions and points reductions, id be happy. 

I don't see a build (HoS) which incentivise a very inefficient approach (NOT killing the enemy units) as being particularly good but hey, that's of course a super hot take (which is useful, considering how it's -12°C here). From what we have seen so far I think DoK has greatly improved in variety but in terms of power they should be where they were post-broken realms -so, very good, yes.

As for comparing ANYTHING to Vandus, well, that's just mean

[jhamslam]

11 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I don't see a build (HoS) which incentivise a very inefficient approach (NOT killing the enemy units) as being particularly good but hey, that's of course a super hot take (which is useful, considering how it's -12°C here). From what we have seen so far I think DoK has greatly improved in variety but in terms of power they should be where they were post-broken realms -so, very good, yes.

As for comparing ANYTHING to Vandus, well, that's just mean

Slaanesh is interesting. Theyre aiming to generate plink depravity turn 1 and 2 and then move in for the kill. Its unique i like it. It also means theyre good against hordes with the locus stopping pile ins

[PJetski]

First impressions:

Slaanesh is underwhelming. They are still paper thin so theyll die quick to shooting but now they cant make enemies fight last so theyll crumble to melee armies. Their only saving grace is summoning but I don't think their new depravity point generation will work out well enough for them in a game where units get wiped out so easily.

DOK looks great. I think it's dumb that you can still have 5+ rerollable ignore with blood shield (and now you can add a -1 damage aura to that combo) but I guess that's never going away.

[jhamslam]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

First impressions:

Slaanesh is underwhelming. They are still paper thin so theyll die quick to shooting but now they cant make enemies fight last so theyll crumble to melee armies. Their only saving grace is summoning but I don't think their new depravity point generation will work out well enough for them in a game where units get wiped out so easily.

DOK looks great. I think it's dumb that you can still have 5+ rerollable ignore with blood shield (and now you can add a -1 damage aura to that combo) but I guess that's never going away.

Wait till you see the Draichi lists. Witch elves with +1 save and -2 rend instead!

[jhamslam]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

First impressions:

Slaanesh is underwhelming. They are still paper thin so theyll die quick to shooting but now they cant make enemies fight last so theyll crumble to melee armies. Their only saving grace is summoning but I don't think their new depravity point generation will work out well enough for them in a game where units get wiped out so easily.

DOK looks great. I think it's dumb that you can still have 5+ rerollable ignore with blood shield (and now you can add a -1 damage aura to that combo) but I guess that's never going away.

The Slaanesh thing is right. The dumbest thing i saw at LVO was a SLaanesh player handily losing against skaven and then chain summoning BR 5 across all objectives winning them the game. 

Chain summons are gone. Its one summon per end of your movement phase 

Edited February 12, 2021 by jhamslam

[baiardo]

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Anvils of Heldenhammer
Leaders
Lord-Veritant (110)
Knight-Vexillor (110)
- Pennant
Lord-Castellant (120)

Battleline
5 x Judicators (140)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (140)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
6 x Gryph-Hounds (120)
10 x Protectors (340)
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (280)
3 x Castigators (70)

Battalions
Stormtower Garrison (160)
Ven Brecht's Black Watch (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

Guys I'm theorycrafting a little here, this list have some consistency for you or not?

the basic idea is positioning the battallion of ven brecht 9'' near enemy lines and shoot x2.

Raptors for the +3 to hit.

Protectors for some protection from ranged and a slow "hammer".

Otherwise, we can take the patrol battallion to cut 30pts, cut castigators for another 70pts and put in a relictor for teleporting raptors, venetor or azyros.

Edited February 13, 2021 by baiardo

[xking]

On 2/12/2021 at 8:52 AM, baiardo said:

The specific stats and rules for Ven Brecth are in the morathi book right?

yes

[Will Rogers]

Hi all, new to stormcast and after a little advise with what to get next and list building.

I currently have: celestant prime, stardrake and 25 libs

really keen to use the stardrake and prime and at least one unit of libs but the rest is up for suggestions.

ive thought about 6 evocators on dracs, castellent? and some concussors but don’t really have a clue.

any advice is welcome

[Lucur]

You might want to hop over to the starcast thread, it's a list "archetype" that focusses on mortal wound generation through stardrakes, prime and some magic and/or allies. With a drake and celestant prime you're halfway there anyways

[Fred1245]

On 2/12/2021 at 12:37 PM, jhamslam said:

Man reading the DoK and Slaanesh updates, our large ass tome is pathetic, it needs like a complete head to toe rework

Both books were significant nerfs on their respective factions. I agree that the Stormcast book needs a top to bottom rewrite, but these books aren't why.

[Fred1245]

On 2/12/2021 at 4:20 PM, jhamslam said:

Wait till you see the Draichi lists. Witch elves with +1 save and -2 rend instead!

Quote

 

Its makes them quite good imo

Slaanesh now has a lot of options, theyre incentivized to cause plink damage over wiping things out. Glutos Is amazing for 400 and Sigvald for 260 puts Vandus to shame

DoK got a lot of balancing but they also got some kickass points reductions and great subfactions. I legit think theyre better than the mono build army they were previously

If we got a revised books with better subfactions, battalions and points reductions, id be happy. 

 

Too bad they still die to harsh language and do no damage because their hit and wound rolls are so bad!

The rest of it just seems like a misunderstanding of how DoK works. None of the subfactions are going to see any play besides Hagg Nar because adding damage is a trash ability for that army. Without witchbrew a witch aelf could do 100 damage on a 2+ rerollable and it would still be bad because they die in droves to even weak shooting or chaff melee and are hilariously vulnerable to battleshock. DoK need DEFENSE far more than they need offense. Or they did until Witch Aelfs lost half of their damage output and Blood sisters lost about 25% of theirs.

The characters getting point drops aren't enough to cancel out them losing most of their good buffs.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Fred1245

[baiardo]

GW:Best defence is offence bro!😂

[Thanos-se]

One question. If the models have base contact, can they move within 3" and pile in?

[PJetski]

10 hours ago, Thanos-se said:

One question. If the models have base contact, can they move within 3" and pile in?

Models have to end a pile in move as close or closer to the nearest enemy model. If a model is base-to-base with an enemy model it can still make a pile-in move as long as it ends the move in base contact with that model.

[Joseph Mackay]

14 hours ago, Fred1245 said:

Too bad they still die to harsh language and do no damage because their hit and wound rolls are so bad!

The rest of it just seems like a misunderstanding of how DoK works. None of the subfactions are going to see any play besides Hagg Nar because adding damage is a trash ability for that army. Without witchbrew a witch aelf could do 100 damage on a 2+ rerollable and it would still be bad because they die in droves to even weak shooting or chaff melee and are hilariously vulnerable to battleshock. DoK need DEFENSE far more than they need offense. Or they did until Witch Aelfs lost half of their damage output and Blood sisters lost about 25% of theirs.

The characters getting point drops aren't enough to cancel out them losing most of their good buffs.

Dok playstyle is ‘glass cannon’ ie hits hard but can’t take a hit back. As for witch selves, it was ridiculous how many reliable attacks (2+ rerolling) they were dishing out before and that needed to be toned down

[CommissarRotke]

On 2/12/2021 at 1:24 PM, Marcvs said:

I don't see a build (HoS) which incentivise a very inefficient approach (NOT killing the enemy units) as being particularly good but hey, that's of course a super hot take (which is useful, considering how it's -12°C here). From what we have seen so far I think DoK has greatly improved in variety but in terms of power they should be where they were post-broken realms -so, very good, yes.

As for comparing ANYTHING to Vandus, well, that's just mean

i might be misunderstanding you, but depravity generation is best when Slaanesh doesn't outright kill units--it's why we're a summoning party for them because all of our models have at least 2 wounds.

[Marcvs]

18 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

i might be misunderstanding you, but depravity generation is best when Slaanesh doesn't outright kill units--it's why we're a summoning party for them because all of our models have at least 2 wounds.

well, it's based on units not on wounds, so 10 wounds of liberators are exactly the same as 10 wounds of freeguild guards: either they will be destroyed completely (no depravity) or they won't (yes depravity). I'd say SCE plays more often with MSU (particularly in terms of screening and engagements) so I don't see it as being particularly bad for us. The fact that most of our units hit as wet noodles might be bad, as we have more chances than not of leaving Slaaneshi units alive and generate depravity.

I'd take this any day over the previous rules. Now with those SCE were an all you can eat buffet for slaanesh.

[CommissarRotke]

ahhh okay, I'm probably thinking of the old rules that made us shiny depravity snacks. I'm glad the summoning rules were changed, hoping it means less snowballing

[jhamslam]

3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

well, it's based on units not on wounds, so 10 wounds of liberators are exactly the same as 10 wounds of freeguild guards: either they will be destroyed completely (no depravity) or they won't (yes depravity). I'd say SCE plays more often with MSU (particularly in terms of screening and engagements) so I don't see it as being particularly bad for us. The fact that most of our units hit as wet noodles might be bad, as we have more chances than not of leaving Slaaneshi units alive and generate depravity.

I'd take this any day over the previous rules. Now with those SCE were an all you can eat buffet for slaanesh.

this Slaanesh depravity and Locus nerf was sponsored by Sons of Behemat. Slaanesh Keepers were a hard counter to that army.

34 x 2 Depravity for a SyllEske Host for each dead mega gargant? Yes pls. Gargants would have been DoA without this change

Edited February 17, 2021 by jhamslam

[CommissarRotke]

I dearly hope this is Gardus... been a Hallowed Knights fan since I started reading AOS lore!!