AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Lucur]

How do they suck against flying? Flying units can't charge when an aetherwing unit moves within 3" at the beginning of the fight phase. If the come in on the flank they can't move and get to make a 9" charge, where they should only have chaff in range.

Even while you can only shoot the closest model, deepkin are so fragile and low count, i don't see the problem.

[Raffonerd]

40 minutes ago, Lucur said:

How do they suck against flying? Flying units can't charge when an aetherwing unit moves within 3" at the beginning of the fight phase. If the come in on the flank they can't move and get to make a 9" charge, where they should only have chaff in range.

Even while you can only shoot the closest model, deepkin are so fragile and low count, i don't see the problem.

They charge at 6 the birds (+3 by scryer). Combat start, use the eltric shock on birds, pail in on raptor with 3", range 2. You die by rend and aa. Gone.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Raffonerd

[XReN]

2 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

They charge at 6 the birds

This implies that aetherwings haven't moved AT ALL, explain

Edited October 23, 2019 by XReN

[Raffonerd]

7 minutes ago, XReN said:

This implies that aetherwings haven't moved AT ALL, explain

Basically, scryer chooses one unit and give +3 charge. If you are near with wings he chooses them, they charge with 1 model birds and the others goes 2d6+3 on raptors. At the start combat they kill birds and then they pail in on raptor (nearest model). Rember that 1 model must end charge near birds, the others goes against raptors. 3" pail in + range 2" you are always dead. (they usually have units of 9 wheels so can reach 15" of extension from birds. Unless you roll 12" with 2d6 it's impossible to don't get charged.

if you are far from raptors they choose raptors and they go straight with flying over them.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Raffonerd

[XReN]

2 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

Basically, scryer chooses one unit and give +3 charge. If you are near with wings he chooses them, they charge with 1 model birds and the others goes 2d6+3 on raptors. At the start combat they kill birds and then they pail in on raptor (nearest model). Rember that 1 model must end charge near birds, the others goes against raptors. 3" pail in + range 2" you are always dead. (they usually have units of 9 wheels so can reach 15" of extension from birds. Unless you roll 12" with 2d6 it's impossible to don't get charged.

if you are far from raptors they choose raptors and they go straight with flying over them.

They don't get to charge when aetherwings make their move and example you gave implies that aetherwings have not made any move, hello

[XReN]

Are you aware that aetherwings are able to move within 3" of enemy unit in the opponent's charge phase?

Edited October 23, 2019 by XReN

[PJetski]

How to completely avoid any kind of outflank charge with Aetherwings:

1. Deploy your army tight and put aetherwings on both flanks of your army. 

2. Put Liberators as a secondary screen behind the Aetherwings, but make sure these Liberators are 4" from the frontline of the Aetherwings

3. The enemy drops into play >9" from your Aetherwings in the movement phase

4. At the start of the enemy charge phase move your Aetherwings

• If you roll average (7+) then you can move your Aetherwings within 3" of the enemy unit - now they can't declare a charge at all and spend their combat phase fighting some throwaway birds
• If you roll low (3-6) then move the Aetherwings away from your enemy. If you did this correctly, there should be no units within 12" of the enemy - now they can't declare a charge at all and they spend their combat phase doing nothing.. Consider doing this even if you roll 7+, as you can keep your Aetherwings alive and use them again later.
• If you roll a 2 then move the Aetherwings back towards the Liberators but position in such a way that they can't fit their models between the Aetherwings and the Liberators. They can charge you, but they will spend their combat phase fighting only Aetherwings. 

There are other parts to consider, like how they can fail their charges and how to position a counterattack unit like Evocators based on the enemy weapon range.

Edited October 23, 2019 by PJetski

[Raffonerd]

6 minutes ago, PJetski said:

How to completely avoid any kind of outflank charge with Aetherwings:

1. Deploy your army tight and put aetherwings on both flanks of your army. 

2. Put Liberators as a secondary screen behind the Aetherwings, but make sure these Liberators are 4" from the Aetherwings frontline of the Aetherwings

3. The enemy drops into play >9" from your Aetherwings in the movement phase

4. At the start of the enemy charge phase move your Aetherwings move.

• If you roll average (7+) then you can move your Aetherwings within 3" of the enemy unit - now they can't declare a charge at all and spend their combat phase fighting some throwaway birds
• If you roll low (3-6) then move the Aetherwings away from your enemy. If you did this correctly, there should be no units within 12" of the enemy - now they can't declare a charge at all and they spend their combat phase doing nothing.. Consider doing this even if you roll 7+, as you can keep your Aetherwings alive and use them again later.
• If you roll a 2 then move the Aetherwings back towards the Liberators but position in such a way that they can't fit their models between the Aetherwings and the Liberators. They can charge you, but they will spend their combat phase fighting only Aetherwings. 

There are other parts to consider, like how they can fail their charges and how to position a counterattack unit like Evocators based on the enemy weapon range.

Liberators dies without move with shock. So they easy overcome them.

Wings rely on roll. So if you roll bad you are dead. If there are sceneries like a boat covering them you are dead. It's really hard to get out from them (rely on relicotors roll). Also sylvaneth dread wood can do this even more easily with 6 kurnoth.

This means it's not a bad list or whatever, but it's far from beeing a top tier. Slanesh/fec or skaven doesn't care about all these rolls to survive.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Raffonerd

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, Raffonerd said:

Wings rely on roll. So if you roll bad you are dead.

No, they don't.... read my post.

Slaanesh doesn't care about Aetherwing rolls? Are we even playing the same game? 🤣

Edited October 23, 2019 by PJetski

[Raffonerd]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

No, they don't.... read my post.

They can enter from any border. Or you have 3 units of birds?

I think that all these tactis works on paper. When you play and you don't get the double turn it's hard to come out from this. Cause in the meanwhile you are losing table control to screen stuff, ecc.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Raffonerd

[PJetski]

16 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

They can enter from any border. Or you have 3 units of birds?

I think that all these tactis works on paper. When you play and you don't get the double turn it's hard to come out from this. Cause in the meanwhile you are losing table control to screen stuff, ecc.

I run 2 units of Aetherwings. If you position your army in a single group then you only have 2 flanks to worry about.

There are 5 rounds in the game, you really only need to be on the objectives on 3 on those 5 rounds to win. Deploy in such a way to avoid the turn 1 deep strike. If they dont come on the table in turn 1 then you can wipe out whatever they left and control the board yourself.

You are building and playing this list wrong my dude

[schwabbele]

3 minutes ago, PJetski said:

There are 5 rounds in the game, you really only need to be on the objectives on 3 on those 5 rounds to win

This is the key message here, many ( me included ) are way to focused on turn 1/2 carnage game endings. 

[Raffonerd]

6 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I run 2 units of Aetherwings. If you position your army in a single group then you only have 2 flanks to worry about.

There are 5 rounds in the game, you really only need to be on the objectives on 3 on those 5 rounds to win. Deploy in such a way to avoid the turn 1 deep strike. If they dont come on the table in turn 1 then you can wipe out whatever they left and control the board yourself.

You are building and playing this list wrong my dude

Dunno guys, maybe people that plays this list in international events don't know how to play it.

That's why they can't win 5 in a row. (I've done 3 -2 with this list, one lost by "listing" cause I've thougt about a different meta (I was thinking to a more spell oriented meta), one by totally bad luck. If we could have repeted that game 10 times I would have won 9 over 10). I.E. I screened with birds 10 unit guys, they charged by 11 avoiding them.  

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Raffonerd

[Raffonerd]

1 minute ago, schwabbele said:

This is the key message here, many ( me included ) are way to focused on turn 1/2 carnage game endings. 

This is not the point. The point is that you struggle agaist "lucky" roll.

As long as everything goes as it should this list is good. If something goes non statistically you are dead. In early game. If they let you start and they double turn as example, ecc. 

Other lists (slanesh fec skaven) don't suffer this. They go straight to win.

[schwabbele]

Lucky roll... it’s a dice game... 

[Raffonerd]

6 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Lucky roll... it’s a dice game... 

True, but on average lists that have a great mass (or table control) are ahead. Because, yes this list have a great fire power but you have to avoid to much stuff to get to victory. Like in the last game i had 3 citadel woods on the table, korne scenery. Never got a double turn, he got some lucky rolls, ecc... you struggle. 

The only thing that i've got is that 6 desolators would have been wide better then 10 evocators 5 games over 5.

https://aosshorts.com/gt-finals-report-2019/#more-7163 like Sam Saunders's lists. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Raffonerd

[PJetski]

What lucky rolls are you talking about? If you position correctly then no matter how you roll with Aetherwings you get the intended result of stopping their combat for a turn.

Woods are not a counter to Anvilstrike. If they are camping in woods then they are not taking objectives, since scenery has to be placed away from objectives. Furthermore, you can easily clear them out with a Heraldor and a charge from Evocators/Desolators.

Edited October 23, 2019 by PJetski

[Maturin]

20 minutes ago, PJetski said:

What lucky rolls are you talking about? If you position correctly then no matter how you roll with Aetherwings you get the intended result of stopping their combat for a turn.

Woods are not a counter to Anvilstrike. If they are camping in woods then they are not taking objectives, since scenery has to be placed away from objectives. Furthermore, you can easily clear them out with a Heraldor and a charge from Evocators/Desolators.

Actually :

" Page 56 – Pitched Battles, BattlefieldsChange the third paragraph to:‘The players then roll off and alternate setting up their terrain features one at a time, starting with the player that won the roll-off. Terrain features must be set up more than 3" from the edge of the battlefield, more than 6" from any other terrain features and more than 1" from any objectives. Sometimes this will make it impossible for a terrain feature to be set up; in this case, it is not used.’ "

They can put woods just right near objectives.

[XReN]

1 minute ago, Maturin said:

Actually :

" Page 56 – Pitched Battles, BattlefieldsChange the third paragraph to:‘The players then roll off and alternate setting up their terrain features one at a time, starting with the player that won the roll-off. Terrain features must be set up more than 3" from the edge of the battlefield, more than 6" from any other terrain features and more than 1" from any objectives. Sometimes this will make it impossible for a terrain feature to be set up; in this case, it is not used.’ "

They can put woods just right near objectives.

They have restrictions in battletome that are harsher than this

[jhamslam]

@Mark Williams

 

They just gave Ogors Opsec. Each Ogor counts as 2 models and each ogor monster counts as 10. 

SCE might get some version of this

[chord]

40 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

@Mark Williams

 

They just gave Ogors Opsec. Each Ogor counts as 2 models and each ogor monster counts as 10. 

SCE might get some version of this

SCE won't, but its a nice thought. 

[l1censetochill]

@PJetski Given where the discussion has gone, I'd be very interested to hear more from you on how you tend to play Anvilstrike lists in the current meta - I apologize, as I know you've done a fair few write-ups and tournament reports in the past, but analysis from players who have been running the list successfully isn't always easy to come by. I know smart Aetherwing usage is pretty much the make-or-break factor in determining your results, but any other info you could provide on how you tend to approach deployment would be super helpful. It sounds like when you're up against anyone with a potential deepstrike, you favor a very castle-y deployment which heavily screens your Longstrikes - would that change much against a fast alpha-strike army like Slaanesh/DoK, or against a horde army like Skaven/Gitz? Which units do you tend to keep on the board, and which do you tend to keep in reserve for a deepstrike?

Also, having asked that, I'm curious - it sounds like when played well, Anvilstrike is a good counter to a lot of the stronger meta choices (Slaanesh, FEC, DoK). What would you say our worst matchups are? My instincts tell me it would be either hordes that you just don't have enough damage to whittle down in time. Maybe Fyreslayers, just because they can tank so much damage (at least, until you can kill all their heroes)?

Thanks for any advice, your willingness to share your experience is much appreciated by the newer members of the community!

Edited October 23, 2019 by l1censetochill

[PJetski]

Deployment is key. You want your dispel scrolls in range of wizards with spells that can threaten your Longstrikes and you want to wait to drop Longstrikes until near the end (but plan ahead so you dont run out of room).

If there is any kind of threat of a turn 1 charge I use a castle deployment. If I don't think my enemy will come that quickly I tend to make sure I deploy Longstrikes within 30" of some kind of useful target. I have a picture here from my last GT (sorry it's blurry) where I was playing against a deepkin Soulscryer list on Duality of Death. You can see the Aetherwings on both flanks ready to intercept the outflank charge, with Liberators on either side just in case. Then I put my Evocators and Longstrikes in the center of that pile, knowing deepkin have no way to pile in and attack again.

Against Slaanesh or FEC I would make sure the Evocators are behind the Liberators, possibly even out of range of a double tap to ensure their safety. Ideally you want to have the Evocators within 3" so they can pile in during the enemy turn, then use the anvils CA to pile them in during the hero phase immediately, but that's only useful if you can be sure that they won't hit your Evocators with their second pile-in. It's fine to lose Aetherwings and Liberators if it means you can fight first with Evocators later.

Against DOK I would put my Evocators further up because they are a slow melee army and can't stop me from fighting first on the charge. 

I'm not sure how to do a formal write-up, but I'm always willing to answer specific questions. I'll go through and compile all my posts from this thread into a single blog post that people can link to (Follow the link: https://shiftingobjectives.blogspot.com/2019/10/anvilstrike-tips-faq-updated-oct-25-2019.html)

Edited October 23, 2019 by PJetski

[PJetski]

42 minutes ago, l1censetochill said:

Also, having asked that, I'm curious - it sounds like when played well, Anvilstrike is a good counter to a lot of the stronger meta choices (Slaanesh, FEC, DoK). What would you say our worst matchups are? My instincts tell me it would be either hordes that you just don't have enough damage to whittle down in time. Maybe Fyreslayers, just because they can tank so much damage (at least, until you can kill all their heroes)?

Thanks for any advice, your willingness to share your experience is much appreciated by the newer members of the community!

The worst matchups are long range mortal wounds that can hit the Longstrikes and Evocators before they get hit first. Jezzails are a tricky unit to deal with, Seraphon teleporting wizards in range to throw Pendulums through the army is a problem, and I suspect some COS lists (Hallowheart and Greywater notably) to a threat.

I would say all matchups against melee armies are favourable for Anvilstrike, most magic armies are not an issue because we can easily pack in 2+ dispel scrolls, and even most ranged lists are not a problem because Longstrikes have such a ridiculous threat range. Fyreslayers aren't really a problem because we can use the precision fire of Longstrikes to take down their heroes and make the hearthguard just another slow melee unit. Everyone plays the same Hermdar list with 30 Hearthguard, but I am much more concerned about the Lofnir shooting lists... thankfully they are exceedingly rare.

 

[Horseburner]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Stormcast-Eternals-Sequitors-2018

 

Can anyone tell me the exact content of this box?