AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Myrdin]

2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Looks like,.. something... coming.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment"

-Librarian of the Blood Ravens, Dawn of War

I dont apply this IRL, but when it comes to Beastmen this quote came true every single time I had a shred of hope for them in the last decade+ . Lets just say my expectations are non existant, so at best I`ll be pleasantly surprised.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Myrdin

[TerminusRex]

24 minutes ago, Salyx said:

Another spam list I am thniking about: What about the Cockatrice spam? Can you still take as many as you like and do they benefit from Monster rules? That would be really massive, being able to do D6 (shooting)+D3 (Monstrous Rampage) Mortals per Cockatrice. You would still lose some points due to Monsters slain, but you can get some back by completing your objectives with Monsters.

If a Cockatrice spam still works, I would put it above Bullgor spam in power level.

Only one rampage type per monster, so only one gets to stomp.

[Feorag]

2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

 

Back in the day (6th ed Fantasy) there was a couple guys who used to run Khorne MSU Minotaur lists.  I think 4-5 with Dual HWs which was like 20 attacks?  But they had better WS.  

I ran MSU bulls in AoS 1 (with points but pre 2nd ed book) and liked it.  I would love to run it again.  I just wish that as elite troops they didn't hit on 4s but instead 3s.  I hate how they are so subject to dice spiking.  Granted a Doombull, Ghorgon and 3 Bullgors should be able to do some dmg.

In 6th I always ran Nurgle minotaurs for the most part as the 4+ save really did help with survivability.

It was also a lot cheaper then the mark of khorne which was nearly double the points per unit IIRC. 

 

[The Red King]

So due to not getting a test measure I ended up with an awesome 3d printed basilisk I intended to use for a cockatrice but the size is just too big. So what do we think of Chimera? They seem really swingy, is there anyway to capitalize on them?

[Popisdead]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:58 PM, Feorag said:

In 6th I always ran Nurgle minotaurs for the most part as the 4+ save really did help with survivability.

I did that too.  I recall someone saying with Scaly skin and a Shield they had a good save vs say,.. poison skinks which were pretty rampant but then I only had 6 minotaurs.  I have 24 now so more options   In fact that unit was the one thing that hammered my buddies unkillable Grave Guard.  oh lordy... i do NOT miss those editions one bit.. hahah.

[Feorag]

4 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I did that too.  I recall someone saying with Scaly skin and a Shield they had a good save vs say,.. poison skinks which were pretty rampant but then I only had 6 minotaurs.  I have 24 now so more options   In fact that unit was the one thing that hammered my buddies unkillable Grave Guard.  oh lordy... i do NOT miss those editions one bit.. hahah.

I have 18 metal minotaurs... I used to run 3x6 or 3x5 all the time in 6th! 

It's a workout carrying that force! 

[tzarl98]

What are people hoping for with the Tome Celestial? Based on what the previous ones have been I can't imagine them being able to do a lot with the tools they have. What are they gonna do, give Brayherd, Thunderscorn, and Warherd a third set of battle traits? A bigger unified battalion so BoC can more easily go one drop? Unless they come out of left field and somehow decide to do warscroll rewrites It doesn't feel like they can really fix the big problems with the army. So what can we realistically expect?

[Chaos Shepard]

I would like for them to, at the very least, fix the costs for the Primordial Call Points.

I could also see something like mount traits but for monsters, or special Monstrous Rampage actions.

Though with are luck they will decide that the Herdstone's abilities are to strong and half it ranges.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Chaos Shepard

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, tzarl98 said:

What are people hoping for with the Tome Celestial? Based on what the previous ones have been I can't imagine them being able to do a lot with the tools they have. What are they gonna do, give Brayherd, Thunderscorn, and Warherd a third set of battle traits? A bigger unified battalion so BoC can more easily go one drop? Unless they come out of left field and somehow decide to do warscroll rewrites It doesn't feel like they can really fix the big problems with the army. So what can we realistically expect?

I was actually hoping for a new book.

now with the white dwarf update that seems very unlikely.

personally I’m hoping that we aren’t just getting some more meaningless buffs on gors.

[Myrdin]

Somewhere deep in my heart I still keep hoping for Khorngors and Pestigors (wanted Slaangors, got meh Slaanbuls instead), Preyton and feral Manticore. New centigors with two separate warscrol profiles (one heavy melee, one medium ranged harassment unit). Replacement for harpies.

Since I dont see a full rewrite as something we will get unless a new book comes out (and even then unless someone competent who understands the army does it, its not gonna be worth jack), at least some new models and units with more up to date warscrolls would be nice to bulk up the roster and improve on some weaker sides of this army

[Maddpainting]

On 1/17/2022 at 12:20 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

I was actually hoping for a new book.

now with the white dwarf update that seems very unlikely.

personally I’m hoping that we aren’t just getting some more meaningless buffs on gors.

Yep, I am going to guess at least a year away. 

[Fyrenn]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:08 AM, tzarl98 said:

What are people hoping for with the Tome Celestial? Based on what the previous ones have been I can't imagine them being able to do a lot with the tools they have. What are they gonna do, give Brayherd, Thunderscorn, and Warherd a third set of battle traits? A bigger unified battalion so BoC can more easily go one drop? Unless they come out of left field and somehow decide to do warscroll rewrites It doesn't feel like they can really fix the big problems with the army. So what can we realistically expect?

I was thinking one thing they could do is revamp rules to allow marked beast generals that can coalition with gods, or something of that nature.  It's honestly the biggest change I could expect that might, in some circumstances, have an impact.  Reworking primordial call points is another, and the sort of band aid these things do.  

[Popisdead]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:08 PM, tzarl98 said:

What are people hoping for with the Tome Celestial? .... So what can we realistically expect?

Perhaps some battalions or some additional trait or ability.  I haven't read them all, just the CoS one which was okay at best. I was just writing a Warherd last night and forgot about the BR "bonuses" we got.  I got pretty excited then I noticed Razorgors don't have the Warherd keyword.  booo hiss...

On 1/16/2022 at 7:36 PM, Chaos Shepard said:

I would like for them to, at the very least, fix the costs for the Primordial Call Points.

I could also see something like mount traits but for monsters, or special Monstrous Rampage actions.

Those are good options.  This is BoC.  Just like the hardcore scene,.. we can't have nice things.

On 1/16/2022 at 9:20 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

personally I’m hoping that we aren’t just getting some more meaningless buffs on gors.

TBH I'm mostly worried this will be it.  GW may have noticed they slow trickle of people loving Gor models, buying in then realizing they made a bad unit will hit them and they'll be like "give them more rules to sucker people into buying into a great looking army with terrible rules."

On 1/18/2022 at 7:36 AM, Maddpainting said:

Yep, I am going to guess at least a year away. 

Yeah, if anything it makes it like we've had 2 bandages applied (BR and this) and an AoS 3 book could not be on the books,.. so to speak...

9 hours ago, Fyrenn said:

I was thinking one thing they could do is revamp rules to allow marked beast generals that can coalition with gods, or something of that nature. 

That would just be so good.  I was excited to hear Bullgors were good options in Godseekers and I think Khorne?  Having some way of running a full Warherd army in Khorne with a few buffs would be nice again.  Allow for buffs of Bullgors under Khorne.

 

 

Speaking of which I wrote up a quick Warherd list unsure since I haven't played AoS since August....  

3 Doombulls (one with Gavespawn trait/weapon)

8x3 Bullgors

3 Ghorgons

Cygor

It's 1975 points. I have a chimera, LOTS of Brayherd and some Thunderscorn but TBH I want to just ****** around with my Warherd again and this is my collection.

I think someone mentioned the bull spell and a Sphiranx (i have the former). Is the Sphiranx such a good warscroll I should have it in my collection and work on getting maybe a Tzeentch Shaman in and focus on the ASF options?  

The other thing I was thinking was Darkwalkers.  I've used Darkwalkers before and they are fun and I have so many units here it could be fairly interesting to have 7 ish units ambush in turns 1 and 2.

I'm also not sure on Battalions.  I could just run Hunters of the Hearthland 8 times and a couple Linebreakers.  Try to find things for the other Doombulls.  That might have legs.  I want a single Doombull, Ghorgon, and 1-2 units of Bullgors to pair up as a "node".  So I see no reason for the Alpha beasts battalion other than maybe the Cygor and some extra Bullgor units.

I know this is a losing cause but I'm not hitting up tournaments.  Oh also on that note, I saw on twitter some Irish BoC player go 3-0 or 2-1 in a one-dayer this past weekend?  I didn't see his list or which tournament.  But neat.

[The Red King]

4 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I think Khorne?  

If you heard it from me constantly prattling on don't take it as fact lol.

I'm in a very low competitive setting where I've done quite well with a blades of khorne list full of warherd. With the FAQ changes I've actually mixed it up a little and will be playing my first game with 12 bulls tonight hopefully.

[Popisdead]

wow quiet thread.

Another guy in a tournament did well~ish with BoC last weekend.  I couldn't find his list though.  He did win best painted but they were average so I assume it was curb appeal, the painting competition and novelty of seeing goats.

[Maddpainting]

We all are just waiting for the WD next month most likely. 

[Popisdead]

Hope not on bated breath.  Hope is the first step to disappointment or whatever.

TBH it will be something that will do something and likely a small boost if not a good one.

[Chaos Shepard]

On 1/26/2022 at 11:05 AM, Popisdead said:

wow quiet thread.

Another guy in a tournament did well~ish with BoC last weekend.  I couldn't find his list though.  He did win best painted but they were average so I assume it was curb appeal, the painting competition and novelty of seeing goats.

Well honestly I don't see how we don't win every "best painted". Thou I may be bias.

[Maddpainting]

8 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Hope not on bated breath.  Hope is the first step to disappointment or whatever.

TBH it will be something that will do something and likely a small boost if not a good one.

Its not about hope but it is new and could change my current list. 

[Popisdead]

On 1/27/2022 at 9:33 AM, Chaos Shepard said:

Well honestly I don't see how we don't win every "best painted". Thou I may be bias.

Best Painted is most often bright primary colours that catch the eye.  Or something like that.  painting skill in tournaments rarely matter in voting since it's democratic voting.  Most people dont' paint well and most people get easily impressed with bright and shiny.

20 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Its not about hope but it is new and could change my current list. 

yeah, i'm keen for that too.  Granted you could always just play something outlandish like 6 Doombull lists

[Myrdin]

So I saw a picture somewhere showing the AoS armybook releases for this year. We werent on it. (I remember Ghosts, Daughters, Fireslayers were there plus 2 more).

Hard to say if it was legit or just someone wishlisting with photoshop. But not sure how I feel about that... on one hand I am like "well at least I wont get dissapointed again", on the other I want our new book to see whether I part with this army and keep just a small warband of selected painted minis or if I stick it up longer.

Anyone got more info on this ? Or at least on the "thing" we are supposed to get that was discussed few posts above ?

Edited February 1, 2022 by Myrdin

[Fyrenn]

9 hours ago, Myrdin said:

So I saw a picture somewhere showing the AoS armybook releases for this year. We werent on it. (I remember Ghosts, Daughters, Fireslayers were there plus 2 more).

Hard to say if it was legit or just someone wishlisting with photoshop. But not sure how I feel about that... on one hand I am like "well at least I wont get dissapointed again", on the other I want our new book to see whether I part with this army and keep just a small warband of selected painted minis or if I stick it up longer.

Anyone got more info on this ? Or at least on the "thing" we are supposed to get that was discussed few posts above ?

I had seen that the first four are known from the warcom article - but two are unknown in the summer - one chaos, and one order.  They just had filler images and are not yet revealed.  People are making guesses of Sylvaneth / Skaven, but it's really not based on anything other then hopes and who 'needs' a book. it IS worth saying I do think those are going to be potentially the 'bigger' releases, whatever they might be... as it seems likely there is not much else coming for the other four (except likely something else for nighthaunt based on rumor engines)

In past months I would have maybe even been hopeful about BoC for the summer chaos release, but they're getting a rules update this month in WD... so I'm just not so sure.  

It's also worth noting this is just through summer - nothing about fall/winter yet.  But still, I think a lot is riding on this WD at this point!  

[Ganigumo]

On 1/16/2022 at 6:08 PM, tzarl98 said:

What are people hoping for with the Tome Celestial? Based on what the previous ones have been I can't imagine them being able to do a lot with the tools they have. What are they gonna do, give Brayherd, Thunderscorn, and Warherd a third set of battle traits? A bigger unified battalion so BoC can more easily go one drop? Unless they come out of left field and somehow decide to do warscroll rewrites It doesn't feel like they can really fix the big problems with the army. So what can we realistically expect?

The best rule they can and should give BoC is:
"Increase the range of melee weapons for reinforced beasts of chaos units by 1" (to a maximum of 3")"

Does it make them top tier? no, but it might push them into mid tier and solves one of the biggest issues with the army (even in aos2) in reach/output. Stuff like bestigor will still struggle a bit in 10s due to the new coherency rules but that seems like its pretty standard across the game for 32mm infantry.

Narrativewise it can be because big hordes of BoC will literally push their front line closer to the enemy to be able to fight themselves.

It instantly makes bullgor, Tzaangor (all variants), and bestigor able to actually get the attacks in to put out damage. Dragon ogors don't get much benefit, but at their current points they're more of an anvil so that's fine.

Also what I would love to see is a few new subfactions, I know they haven't been putting them in tome celestials but I'd like to see a few that bring in support for god dedicated armies. Maybe a minor benefit, gain the keyword, and 1-in-4 coalition for the associated god book. It could open up some interesting play options.

 

On 2/1/2022 at 9:21 AM, Myrdin said:

So I saw a picture somewhere showing the AoS armybook releases for this year. We werent on it. (I remember Ghosts, Daughters, Fireslayers were there plus 2 more).

Hard to say if it was legit or just someone wishlisting with photoshop. But not sure how I feel about that... on one hand I am like "well at least I wont get dissapointed again", on the other I want our new book to see whether I part with this army and keep just a small warband of selected painted minis or if I stick it up longer.

Anyone got more info on this ? Or at least on the "thing" we are supposed to get that was discussed few posts above ?

Chances of a Boc Book this year are very low. Whitefang hinted at a skaven release and we're getting a tome celestial pretty late into the edition.
On an actual positive note though, the BoC book has been weak pretty much since release AND is one of the earliest tomes of 2e, which should make it a priority to get an update. That means the book was probably pushed back for some reason, the most likely one being BoC are getting a line refresh during aos3 and didn't fit into the early part of the edition.

Obviously its just me speculating but I think it makes sense, but we probably won't see the update until the back half of aos3.

[Maddpainting]

[The Red King]

37 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

... we already knew that I thought?