AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[mrbedlam]

3 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

The advantage is really that if you are a hardcore melee army, it really helps you. Like iron jaws.   If the whole aim and purpose of your army is to make it into combat and failing to do that is bad, then use cogs.  If you are that kind of army you WANT your opponent in combat with you.  So you don’t care if they come charging in. And because of alternating activation you don’t have to worry about eating all chargers first like in 40k

 

so it’s really just about what you are trying to do with your army. 

This. Also if you engage their whole army on your charge turn then it doesn't matter if they have the bonus to move, as you are already in the scrum

[Ashes]

Good insights. Thanks.

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Ashes It's even more entertaining if your opponent also brings cogs, because if both are cast they both stack, for a +4 move and a +4 charge ?. 

One of the main reasons cogs is essential for us bedsheets is that we drop in 9" away from our enemy using underworlds ability. Rolling a 7+ on 2d6 is a lot more likely than a 9+ for getting stuck in after dropping into the battle. 

The other thing to bear in mind with cogs is it's about negating your opponent's threat range. An example would be Tzeentch, most of their spells are 18" range. If you want to avoid getting nuked then you need to be 19" away. If you have a +2 to move and charge, a unit like grims goes from needing to make an 11" charge after moving 8", to needing a 7" charge (plus the additional +2") after moving 10". The difference between 7" and 11" on 2d6 is a no brainer. If you add in extra movement buffs, like pendant, anniversary GoS spell, etc...it helps to increase your own threat range, whilst remaining out of range of your opponent's unit's attacks. 

[Neck-Romantic]

I always forget all this cunning tactical preplanning and just hurl ghosts at people once its all on the table

Edited October 31, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Vasshpit]

2 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I always forget all this cunning tactical preplanning and just hurl ghosts at people once its all on the table

I KNEW you were secretly an Ironjawz player. Bahahaha!!!

[Smavo]

10 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@Ashes It's even more entertaining if your opponent also brings cogs, because if both are cast they both stack, for a +4 move and a +4 charge ?. 

One of the main reasons cogs is essential for us bedsheets is that we drop in 9" away from our enemy using underworlds ability. Rolling a 7+ on 2d6 is a lot more likely than a 9+ for getting stuck in after dropping into the battle. 

The other thing to bear in mind with cogs is it's about negating your opponent's threat range. An example would be Tzeentch, most of their spells are 18" range. If you want to avoid getting nuked then you need to be 19" away. If you have a +2 to move and charge, a unit like grims goes from needing to make an 11" charge after moving 8", to needing a 7" charge (plus the additional +2") after moving 10". The difference between 7" and 11" on 2d6 is a no brainer. If you add in extra movement buffs, like pendant, anniversary GoS spell, etc...it helps to increase your own threat range, whilst remaining out of range of your opponent's unit's attacks. 

In the matched play rules only one instance of and endless spell can be on the feild at a time. So if your opponent casts cogs you cannot.

[Nevar]

1 hour ago, Smavo said:

In the matched play rules only one instance of and endless spell can be on the feild at a time. So if your opponent casts cogs you cannot.

Pretty sure it is one instance per player.  Since you pay points for them it would be pretty bad if your opponent bringing something canceled out your own list points.

[Seraphage]

2 hours ago, Nevar said:

Pretty sure it is one instance per player.  Since you pay points for them it would be pretty bad if your opponent bringing something canceled out your own list points.

Only 1 spell indeed, review the rules *had to do it myself 10 days ago for the same reason !*

What you can do though : dispell it and then spell it yourself !

[Tropical Ghost General]

Nah, it's one per player and it stacks. 

On another note, have finished the conversion build part of my BC. Didn't like the over hang or 'santa and his flying reindeer' look of the original sculpt. Also added the spare rider holding a lantern and hour glass to add  something extra to the mix. Not fully stuck together yet as I need to paint in sub assembly. 

[MirageFive]

What do y'all think of this for 1k?

Guardian of Souls - 140
Vampire Lord - 140
Spirit Torment - 120
30 Chainrasp - 240
30 Grimghast -360
Total - 1000

[Vasshpit]

@Tropical Ghost General

Looks great! This was my plan as well so great to see that the final result work!!

Awesome!!

You get two riders!!?

Edited November 1, 2018 by Vasshpit

[States]

This weekend I am going vs freeguild, and am unsure of what to take! I was thinking one of these lists (i have SW box, spells, and some odd heros)

 

• Guardian of Souls
• Spirit Torment
• Lady Olynder
• Reikenor
• Vampire Lord
• 8x Glaivewraith Stalkers
• 20x Grimghast Reapers
• 6x Spirit Hosts
• 20x Chainrasp Horde
• 20x Chainrasp Horde
• Chainguard Battalion
• Chronomantic Cogs
• Prismatic Palisade
• 1990/2000

Or

• Guardian of Souls
• Spirit Torment
• Lady Olynder
• Reikenor
• Vampire Lord
• [Dreadblade Harrow]
• 8x Glaivewraith Stalkers
• 20x Grimghast Reapers
• 6x Spirit Hosts
• [40x Chainrasp Horde]
• Chronomantic Cogs
• Prismatic Palisade
• [Quicksilver swords]
• 1950/2000

Any suggestions?

 

[Tropical Ghost General]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

You get two riders!!?

Yeah, one with a scythe, whip and a scary mask, the other with just his hands held out (yawn). One is to represent soul grasp the other is to represent the reaper scythe  (which is the better choice), but it's a bit like on of those cases of WYSIWYG but I doubt anyone will care if you have the wrong dude on the wagon, rule of cool in it.

23 minutes ago, States said:

Any suggestions?

Go with the top list. I have suggestions for days, but ultimately you need to play games and figure out what is working your for. Personally I think the only help with lists that anyone can really give is when you are up against a particular problem, such as a big monster with doppelganger cloak, or if you keep losing on objectives or a certain mission. Otherwise it's all speculation and what works for me may not work for you. There is a really good podcast I listen to and they've just done an episode on list building, well worth a listen. http://podcast.justplaygames.uk/how-to-build-a-tournament-winning-list

[Tropical Ghost General]

5 hours ago, MirageFive said:

What do y'all think of this for 1k?

For 1k, drop the torment and 30 rasps and take 30 grims instead, less drops, same number of bodies and better damage output. The VL will heal consistently better than the torment as well. 

[States]

4 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

 

Go with the top list. I have suggestions for days, but ultimately you need to play games and figure out what is working your for. 

What makes you like the top one more? Feel free to explain stuff!

[dmorley21]

There was another strong Nighthaunt finish at a tournament in California. The list isn't posted, but the top 10 armies are in a thread in the general discussion. 

 

Edit: Also, keep posting battle reports! They're a great learning tool when you don't have people to play test games with. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by dmorley21
Added something; didn't want to double post.

[Tropical Ghost General]

15 hours ago, States said:

Feel free to explain stuff!

OK. So there isn't much difference between the lists except that one helps to buff your rasps and gives you the extra CP and relic from having a battalion.

The dreadblade isn't a great unit, the only time that it becomes viable is if it's your general and you use it to teleport itself and other units around the board, but you have to build a list around this mechanic, which yours doesn't seem to be, as you want units that are self reliant, for example, teleporting a unit of harridans over to tie up a unit or take an objective. 

Both lists have lots of objective holders/tarpits units, but neither have much in the way of hammer units. The 20 grims are about it, when they die you aren't left with much punch. 

Glaivewraiths are only good at sitting on backfield objectives or being bodies on the board that allow other units to deepstrike in. The slow speed and lack of rend make them ineffective at securing already held objectives and the general unit cost makes them unable to be able to take out large squads or smaller heroes (normally bubble wrapped by those large squads). 

Reik is a solid choice but Lady O is really situational as to whether she'll do effective or not. Against freeguild it should be a good choice but beware of the volume of fire from shooting, -1 to hit doesn't make much difference of your opponent is rolling a bucket load of dice. All our heroes are super susceptible to getting nuked in a turn of magic or shooting and a 4++ isn't going to help against 30 saving throws or a ton of mortals being thrown at you. As you can't pass off the wounds to nearby fodder, like necromancers can, all your heroes will die very quickly with focused attacks.

Ask your opponent what range the shooting is before deployment, assess what your movement speed is and how quickly you can engage those target unit, is it going to take 2 turns to reach them, if so can you survive a turn of shooting, etc... The palisade is great at blocking line of site, so is gravetide. Use these and the terrain to figure out how to focus on your opponent. 

SHs what to bubble wrap Lady O. They are not great units, 0 rend, mortals on unmodified 6s now makes them only good as tarpit or screening units. Your general (if not Lady O) can heal them back more effectively than she can using Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, but then you are putting 2 heroes to buff 6 SHs, which is wasting resources. It will have to be one of those play and see situations as to whether you decide to make the SHs super buffed or not. 

Last thing I'll mention is always play for the mission. Generally we have great movement and can get on objectives quickly, and once on them we are better than average at holding them, we are not the best by a long shot, but we are alright at it. Play the mission, no matter how tempting it is to go over and smash face ?. 

[Neck-Romantic]

SMASH

SMASH FACE

[States]

2 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

SHs what to bubble wrap Lady O. They are not great units, 0 rend, mortals on unmodified 6s now makes them only good as tarpit or screening units. Your general (if not Lady O) can heal them back more effectively than she can using Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, but then you are putting 2 heroes to buff 6 SHs, which is wasting resources. It will have to be one of those play and see situations as to whether you decide to make the SHs super buffed or not. 

I was thinking of having the SH together with the Spirit Torment (as my general also) and bring them from the underworld. The reapers would run around with the vampire lord having the extra attacks in. The horde and GoS would do whatever would be needed, and try to push Lady O up carefully using the palisade also. The glaivewraith could probably cap objectives, or if he places some artillery alone to a corner, jump them.

[MirageFive]

19 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

For 1k, drop the torment and 30 rasps and take 30 grims instead, less drops, same number of bodies and better damage output. The VL will heal consistently better than the torment as well. 

I only own 30 Grimghast Reapers in total.

Another option I like is this:

Guardian of Souls - 140
Spirit Torment - 120
40 Chainrasp - 280
30 Grimghast - 360
5 Bladegheists - 90
Total - 990

Edited November 2, 2018 by MirageFive

[Tropical Ghost General]

1 hour ago, States said:

The reapers would run around with the vampire lord having the extra attacks in

The VL won't give the reaper the Death Save of 6++, as allies can't take allegiance abilities. So be careful as a straight up 4+ isn't going to make them survive very long. Also, the SHs aren't an offensive unit, occasionally they may work against chaff, but they lack any punch. You'd be better off running the torment with the grims and VL with the SHs. Still keep the VL in range to buff the grims, but without any heroes to help them those grims will die quickly and it's your only hammer unit. Lady O is a mortal wound assassin, she needs to dive in quickly and get out again just as quick. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

29 minutes ago, MirageFive said:

Another option I like is this:

In 1k most list will be 3 or 4 drop. Occasionally it will be 1 but rarely. You want to either aim for first turn and minimise your drops or sack off getting first turn altogether and have a more well rounded army. If it was me I'd either go:

1k Low Drops

• GoS (spectral tether - for self healing)
• VL
• 40 Chainrasps
• 30 Grims
• Cogs & Swords (endless spells)

1k Many Drops

• GoS (spectral tether - for self healing)
• GoS (shademist - for unit buffing) (also give artefact gildanbane for negating doppelganger cloaks).
• VL
• 30 Grims
• 10 Chainrasps
• 10 Chainrasps
• Cogs (endless spell)

I should add, those are lists that work for play style and are based on my opinion, which isn't the best tbh ?. One of the new missions require heroes with artefacts or wizards, others require heroes to hold objectives, having more is better. Having 2 regular GoS's will help to keep healing going should one die, it allows you to play one aggressively as well, so that the grims are wounding on 2's in his buff bubble. The rasps are minimum size for holding objectives and to act as a screen. The VL should go with the grims and one of the GoS's, and use that castle as your big hammer unit. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Tropical Ghost General

[adreal]

Pulled from the thread in general, this is the list that did well at the SoCal open

[MrRoff]

Hello everyone! Got a couple of questions, i'm new to AoS, only been playing for about 3 months, but i find it really fun!
Got together an army of nighthaunts quite cheap of the internet, running nighthaunt alliance .

A couple of questions, i'll be glad if anyone have the time to answer!

1. First of, is Mournghoul legit after all the nerfs? I thought it looked cool and showed my gf it, and i think she might have gotten it for christmas... And that's before i realised it was 300p. Still a cool model. Do you think it will get any buffs in the future?

2. if i would like to try Grand host of Nagash there is 1 bonus that i have trouble understanding: Magic: All DEATH WIZARDS know an additional spell from one of the Lores of the Dead. But then further down it says that only Deathmages/vampires may take spells from lore of the dead? So like my Guardian of souls can't take any, even if it says they can?

3. This is my list so far, i've won 12/15 games, please tell me what you think!

2x Guardian of Souls - Unnatural Darkness spell (From realm of Shyish) and Soul Cage
1x Lady Olynder - Lifestealer
1x Knight of shrouds on etheral steed - Balefire blade or Slitter
1x Necromancer (Ally) "Optional just to get Dance Macabre and some light heal"
1x Lord Executioner

20x Chanrasp horde
10x Grimghast reapers
10x Hexwraiths
3x  Spirit hosts

1480/1500p
- We're playing 1500p games atm, don't judge

Thank you in advance, and sorry for my "bad" english, it's my third language.
May posts som pics of what i've painted so far (new to painting but getting there quite fast)




 

[Neck-Romantic]

The Mourngul has actually been nerfed over and over since its original release, so Im not sure if it will ever get any better.