AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Nevar]

23 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Hmm. Is the idea still sound? Essentially "mining" an ojective so it cant be claimed without removing the surrounding shackles first?

If it is close to terrain you could essentially wall it off from enemies getting close enough..

Well the tactic is still sound just less viable.  You could also use Prismatic Pallisade and a single GoS to wall off an objective if the enemy cannot fly.  Using the shackles in conjunction could improve your 'wall' shape, and give you something easy to dispel with Myrmourns.

The problem with the idea is just that it is highly unreliable as a blocker, as your enemy can dispel it and then charge in anyways.  Using the Palisade as a fort for some Myrmourns to buff up on and then jump into melee is a lot more reliable than making your wall 10' higher if the enemy comes to your objective.

[Nevar]

8 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

They are not listed as unique, so as long as you pay for multiple, you could have multiple. The example in MS even talks about going to summon a 3rd Balewind Vortex when you only own 2.

I do not have the rule on me as I am at work, but this specific topic came up during a tourney at my local store.  There is wording in the book somewhere that says you can only have one copy of the spell on the table at one time.  Additionally, buying the spell gives it to all of your wizards, and if it gets dispelled you do not suddenly forget the spell.  That means if you pay 100 points for a Comet, it is not a one shot spell and if it is dispelled you can cast it again.

Perhaps it was rules incorrectly, but we had several people reading it to make sure.  One player was getting hammered by the Everburning Comet every turn, because the Stormcast player was dispelling it and dropping it every single hero phase.  His opponent argued he used it the one time he paid for, and so a deep dive into how many you could have/use took place.

I would be happy to be wrong, as some spells like the Shackles would be awesome to just cover the table in.

[AverageBoss]

1 minute ago, Nevar said:

I do not have the rule on me as I am at work, but this specific topic came up during a tourney at my local store.  There is wording in the book somewhere that says you can only have one copy of the spell on the table at one time.  Additionally, buying the spell gives it to all of your wizards, and if it gets dispelled you do not suddenly forget the spell.  That means if you pay 100 points for a Comet, it is not a one shot spell and if it is dispelled you can cast it again.

Perhaps it was rules incorrectly, but we had several people reading it to make sure.  One player was getting hammered by the Everburning Comet every turn, because the Stormcast player was dispelling it and dropping it every single hero phase.  His opponent argued he used it the one time he paid for, and so a deep dive into how many you could have/use took place.

I would be happy to be wrong, as some spells like the Shackles would be awesome to just cover the table in.

You are right about being able to dispell and recast. For each instance of each endless spell you have payed for, you can have one instance active on the table. If you payed for it and its not there, you can try to bring it on, no questions asked. If you pay 200 points for 2 Purple Suns, you can have two on the table at once. If 1 gets dispelled, you can bring it back and have 2 again.

[Nevar]

5 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

You are right about being able to dispell and recast. For each instance of each endless spell you have payed for, you can have one instance active on the table. If you payed for it and its not there, you can try to bring it on, no questions asked. If you pay 200 points for 2 Purple Suns, you can have two on the table at once. If 1 gets dispelled, you can bring it back and have 2 again.

So what you are saying is I could take 10 Everburning Comets for 1000 points, and 1000 points of spellcasters, and literally bombard an enemy to death with large models they cannot move past?  Or I could take 6 Prismatic Palisades, set them up in the Great Border Wall?  I am 80% sure there was specifically wording that said you can only have on deployed at a time, but I will have to reread the Endless Spell rules then.

If this is possible... do the effects of the Cogs stack?  Could you have +10 spells for a wizard hanging out inside a Ball'o Cogs?

[AverageBoss]

3 minutes ago, Nevar said:

So what you are saying is I could take 10 Everburning Comets for 1000 points, and 1000 points of spellcasters, and literally bombard an enemy to death with large models they cannot move past?  Or I could take 6 Prismatic Palisades, set them up in the Great Border Wall?  I am 80% sure there was specifically wording that said you can only have on deployed at a time, but I will have to reread the Endless Spell rules then.

If this is possible... do the effects of the Cogs stack?  Could you have +10 spells for a wizard hanging out inside a Ball'o Cogs?

Yes, yes, and yes. Again, they even give and example in the Endless Spells rules where the player has two balewinds out, and attempts to cast a 3rd, but does not actually own a 3rd model.

For the Comet list, I fully expect that to be a Stormcast gimmick list of sorts. For the palisades, I don't think it will be as good as Sylvaneth Wylwoods, and those are free. As for Cogs, besides Nagash, I don't think there are any wizards in the game that even know that many spells, so I don't think you will get that much mileage out of that.

[Nevar]

3 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Yes, yes, and yes. Again, they even give and example in the Endless Spells rules where the player has two balewinds out, and attempts to cast a 3rd, but does not actually own a 3rd model.

For the Comet list, I fully expect that to be a Stormcast gimmick list of sorts. For the palisades, I don't think it will be as good as Sylvaneth Wylwoods, and those are free. As for Cogs, besides Nagash, I don't think there are any wizards in the game that even know that many spells, so I don't think you will get that much mileage out of that.

Well I assume the Rule of One still applies to Endless Spells, so you could still only theoretically drop five separate Comets, or five Cogs, my examples were a bit hyperbolic.

So instead what we need is to bring five Aethervoid Pendulums and a bunch of casters and just launch and dispel those things to melt whole armies.  d6 per Pendulum, 2d6 if you cast it on the 2nd turn of a battleround.  That is a lot of safe, long range mortal wounds...

[Neck-Romantic]

Oooh... good news!

I don't want to go full TFG with multiple *predatory* endless spells, but the shackles are both thematic for NightHaunt and less OP  imho.

And iir they are relatively cheap as well

Edited July 23, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Nevar]

Alright, let's not get crazy, I just got a screen shot of the rules from a friend with the book.  Quote:

"...the player can use (and re-use) one endless spell model of the appropriate type in the battle.  A player cannot take the same endless spell model more than once for their army, but can take any number of different endless spell models (for example, you could not take two Balewind Vortex Models)."

So... maybe you are reading about them in the Narrative play section?

[AverageBoss]

6 minutes ago, Nevar said:

Alright, let's not get crazy, I just got a screen shot of the rules from a friend with the book.  Quote:

"...the player can use (and re-use) one endless spell model of the appropriate type in the battle.  A player cannot take the same endless spell model more than once for their army, but can take any number of different endless spell models (for example, you could not take two Balewind Vortex Models)."

So... maybe you are reading about them in the Narrative play section?

Do you have a page number for that, because I am not seeing it?

[Nevar]

37 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Do you have a page number for that, because I am not seeing it?

General's Handbook, in Matched play, in the army comp section, directly above the bold  "BATTLEFIELD ROLES".

Can't see the exact page number in the shot as it is zoomed in to be readable.

[kozokus]

2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

They are not listed as unique, so as long as you pay for multiple, you could have multiple. The example in MS even talks about going to summon a 3rd Balewind Vortex when you only own 2.

Certenly not. GHB page 38.

[AverageBoss]

Well there's my problem I guess. I was looking int the MS book for the rules on Endless Spells. You know the book that covers their rules of use and such. I needed to look in a different book. Silly me.

Would it have killed GW to write sentence saying "NOTE: You may only include 1 of each endless spell in a pitched battle list" in the MS book?

[Neck-Romantic]

Dangit. I was excited to try that idea out. Still 20 points for 3 bases of chains isnt bad

[I_usually_just_lurk]

1 hour ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Dangit. I was excited to try that idea out. Still 20 points for 3 bases of chains isnt bad

Yeah I’m going to try them next game. We’ve outlawed the Geminids in our basement games because they tend to be too significant in MW output and debuff impact for 40 points. 

[kozokus]

3 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Well there's my problem I guess. I was looking int the MS book for the rules on Endless Spells. You know the book that covers their rules of use and such. I needed to look in a different book. Silly me.

Would it have killed GW to write sentence saying "NOTE: You may only include 1 of each endless spell in a pitched battle list" in the MS book?

Yeah, having to look in 3 different books is annoying at best but yet, we have everything we need.

Only one cast of each endless spell each turn, no recasting as long as the first one is still here in matched play. And Endless spell dissipation happens before anything else in the turn.

 

 

By the way, i am looking for a 1500 point list for a tournament but fail to do something convincing. Does someone have an idea?

[ajax_xaja]

What're you all enjoying for battleline units? And battalions? 

I'm not convinced that any battallions are worth taking at 1500 or below, but would love to hear your guys' opinions.

Also, what seems to be a good ratio of heroes to infantry at 1000 points? 1500?

[Nactigal]

Sample size of 1, but I ran the chainguard at 1000 points. It was nice, though probably not worth it. It especially hurts when you're double turned and can't get back those units. More threats would have been a better point investment.

[AverageBoss]

I like the idea of Deadriders combined with Cogs and our reserve deployment. Landing 9" away from the enemy with +3 to charges makes things FAR easier. And I am already a fan of Dreadblades, Hexwraiths, and Black Coaches.

[SleeperAgent]

2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I like the idea of Deadriders combined with Cogs and our reserve deployment. Landing 9" away from the enemy with +3 to charges makes things FAR easier. And I am already a fan of Dreadblades, Hexwraiths, and Black Coaches.

My bad, read this wrong.

Edited July 24, 2018 by SleeperAgent

[KoalaSnok]

Just went through the Skirmish points updates for NH.. Is anyone else completely baffled that the Cairn Wraith went from 12 to 32 (!!!!!) points?! It went from our cheapest hero choice to our most expensive one, including all the new ones - even KoSoES! Surely this must be a misprint?

[Marucho]

Maybe just enough of them sold already ,,

[dmorley21]

8 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I like the idea of Deadriders combined with Cogs and our reserve deployment. Landing 9" away from the enemy with +3 to charges makes things FAR easier. And I am already a fan of Dreadblades, Hexwraiths, and Black Coaches.

I plan on taking a unit or two of Hexwraiths and the black coach but am not sold on Death Riders. I just don't know how often it would end up being useful. 

[Nevar]

6 hours ago, KoalaSnok said:

Just went through the Skirmish points updates for NH.. Is anyone else completely baffled that the Cairn Wraith went from 12 to 32 (!!!!!) points?! It went from our cheapest hero choice to our most expensive one, including all the new ones - even KoSoES! Surely this must be a misprint?

It was baffling.

I was also sad that Hexwraiths went up a point.  In the end though it gave me a lot more options for an interesting Warband.

[TheWolfLord]

5 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I plan on taking a unit or two of Hexwraiths and the black coach but am not sold on Death Riders. I just don't know how often it would end up being useful. 

It improves the chances of getting Wave of Terror from 16.67% to 27.77% so it’s pretty decent especially with reroll charges. 

If you use the Cogs you can deep strike 9” away and only need a 6” charge.

Black Coach’s are great, Hexwraiths are great and a Harrow is really handy to grab objectives so it’s all round useful.

[TheOtherJosh]

Shroudguard requirements and “KEYWORD BOLD”

For shroudguard, the battalion organization requirements aren’t listed in Keyword Bold. (e.g. “1 Knight Of Shrouds” not “1 KNIGHT OF SHROUDS”)

Given that differentiation, can you use a KoS on Ethereal Steed?

Or are you limited to a Knight Of Shrouds (on foot)?