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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion


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2 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I suppose that's fair. Would like to see how it works for others.

Mortal Rain (one-list candidate)

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Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Spirit Torment (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)

Behemoths
Black Coach (220)

Battalions
The Dolorous Guard (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

In order to have a list stand up to any challenger, it has to both play up its own strengths to a high level while also exposing a weakness in the enemy that can be easily and repeatedly exploited. This list seeks to capitalize on From the Underworlds They Come, wizard coverage, and movement speed to allow you to dynamically adjust to your opponent and battleplan. It will also make liberal use of Frightful Touch and other mortal wound generating attacks and abilities to exploit a universal weakness among opponent armies: high or non-existent mortal wound shrugs. This makes this list suitable against hordes, elites, and multi-wound heroes while also providing enough bodies to claim objectives and protect key ones.

Goals: Primary - Shred enemy threat units. Secondary - Shred enemy objective campers. Tertiary - Claim up to 4 objectives and roam for more.

Underworlds: Up to any 5 units, decided by opponent and battleplan.

How it works: There are a few guidelines to follow.

First, Command Points should be used on re-rolling charges for Wave of Terror. Priority for WoT chances will be Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths. Don't use points on anything else but WoT chances.

Second, the Spirit Torment is the general, and with his Pendant of the Fell Wind should be nice and tight with the Spirit Hosts. This gives the entire group 9" of movement, reroll 1's on their Frightful Touch attacks, and full-model return on any dead Spirit Hosts regardless of how many wounds are currently allocated. Coupled with Captured Soul Energy which should be used to keep the ST healed or spot-remove wounds on a Spirit Host, this becomes your primary threat composition and should head straight for the scariest opponent target. This is the only hero/unit configuration I would never break up. The rest below can if you see a tactical advantage in doing so.

Third, the Dolorous Guard is not there to give the general more wounds, but instead to buff the Hexwraiths attacks and provide the extra CP and artefact. The DG should pal around with Reikenor since they have similar movement, which should ensure they have hero cover while they charge and shred distant or exposed targets. Unlike the Spirit Host configuration above, the DG and Reikenor can be dynamically used. They will be great against horde units, exposed heroes, objective snagging, or putting pressure at a key location. Be sure to use Reikenor's candles on enemy models that grant buffs to their units, and it's likely he'll be in the best position to lay out the Prismatic Palisade in a favorable spot.

Fourth, Lady Olynder and 10 Chainrasps should always stick together. She needs a screen to provide some protection and provide Look Out, Sir! for a shot at durability. In this list she is a distraction ploy; she'll wreak havoc if not dealt with but isn't so important to us for winning that we need to keep her alive. She will be best used right when you anticipate your opponent is going to try to push forward on you, and so would almost always be in the Underworlds waiting.

Fifth, the Black Coach will play its usual two roles. In the beginning, you will make a choice of either having it hang back with the Spirit Hosts if you think you will lose more models than Ruler of the Spirit Host can return, or have it move with the Hexwraiths to make sure they stay at max size. Or, you can have it run-up to a loose objective. Once it's empowered enough you can consider using it offensively, but I wouldn't send it out against any elites.

Lastly, the Guardian of Souls and his big block of 40 'rasps are for whatever you might need a thick blob of wounds on the table. Clearly grabbing an objective is one place to put them, and if there is a hotly contended objective they can last the fight to keep it. They can also remain in your backfield if your opponent has any zone-in abilities or deep strike. They will be slow, so keep that in mind.

What ends up in Underworlds will be completely up to you, but you will have a lot of options. I would give a recommendation, but other than always having the Black Coach and the Spirit Torment/Spirit Host blob on the table at the start it will come down to the battle plan, the coverage you need to protect yourself in the early game, opponent speed and zone-in, and any number of other variables.

Like I mentioned already, the list is 3-0.

Against Graywater Fastness I only kept Olynder and her screen in reserves, I won the priority and passed it off  to my opponent, and mortal wounded his fast damage units off the table in my opening push. He lost the priority roll for turn 2 and conceded.

Against Living City this game went the distance to the bottom of turn 5. I went first. Just like against Graywater, my Spirit Hosts eviscerated his threat ranged units and a couple heroes on the first turn. Hexwraiths ended up having to split off from Reikenor, but made up for it with their WoT charges and grabbing objectives. His ability to summon more units, heal up on every turn, and Alarielle just being a beast kept him in the game after that. Taking on Alarielle with anything other than the Spirit Hosts was a bad idea, and had I not tried I think I could have ended the game early. That being said, by the end of the game it came down to a charge roll just to keep more bodies on a contended objective to win the points at the end of the turn.

Against OBR it went 3 turns. Knowing the slowness of this particular army and their lack of zone-in, I opted to put the GoS and 40 rasps into Underworlds along with Olynder and her screen. I gave up priority to let my opponent move slowly up as much as they could, and then I returned the march by slamming my Spirit Hosts into their Mortek Guard, my Hexwraiths into their Deathriders, and dropping Olynder on one side of their catapults and GoS and 'rasps on the other side. The Petrifex rend was useless against me, though they could still do pretty good damage, but their enhanced saves were useless against my mortal wounds and their 6+ wasn't enough on its own for them to hold out. In terms of keeping bodies on the table Living City was harder to stand up to because I had to constantly fight and contend, but the trick against OBR was to grab objectives and just engage in fights outside their range and let the points add up. They just can't get out of a fight once dragged in.

Looks interesting. I'll have to pick up some more Spirit Hosts and a Reikenor to try it out lol. Thanks!

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The difficulty with making OBR Nagash 'chew through' anything is that protection of nagash spell.  If he gets the spell up, that's an extra shrug against wounds and mortal wounds, and when  a couple wounds inevitably get through he redeploys anywhere more than 9" from your stuff.  On the one hand you can force him off of and away from objectives that way, and with half the army tied up in nagash and the rest made up of expensive elites that might be all you need to do, but locking him down in any meaningful way is hard to manage.

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1 hour ago, Sception said:

The difficulty with making OBR Nagash 'chew through' anything is that protection of nagash spell.

So, reading the spell, it sounds like the damage and effect of the spell has to be resolved when damage is taken, in whatever phase that happens to be. And there is no option not to teleport if damage is taken. So flip this. In the charge phase charge Nagash first, fish for WoT and deal damage. If a single wound gets through he has to teleport, and so he does. If your opponent is playing him aggressively then he'll appear at 9" from another one of  your units. Charge him again with that other unit and deal some damage. Obviously this means you are dedicating a few CP to the task when it might be better to wipe an actual unit off the table with those instead. And, if the Nagash player sets him 9" from the WoT unit, well, then that's done. But it's a way to handle him.

But, yes, I'd still say the goal is to tie him up with combat, not necessarily damage. Just snag him to be engaged and make his player decide if he wants to commit to that or not. Either way, its a choice he's not making against your other units.

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4 hours ago, Tooooon said:

So out of curiousity, what *is* the playstyle of Nighthaunt these days?

 

Still focused on horde lists, or is it a bit more flexiblem

Yes. 😋

I'd say the only constant is MSU lists, since WoT is pretty much everything if you want a real shot at winning. If you want to do that with lots of horde units, sure. If you want to do it with lists like I posted a page ago, also sure.

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On 6/15/2020 at 11:59 PM, EnixLHQ said:

Guide update!

  • Added All To Come Within the Fold, a section that touches on the Mourngul and the Thorns of the Briar Queen. It's located after Battery-Powered Curse Hearse
  • Cleared up some text about Spirit Torment's Captured Soul Energy ability that was bothering me
  • All instances of "artefact" now match GW's choice of spelling

And coming soon my take on the all-comers competitive list. It's currently 3-0 against Living City, Graywater Fastness, and OBR Petrifex. I'm tooling it a bit and will see how it fares next, and if it does well I'll add it to the guide.

Do you have a link for your blog? I have almost bought everything for my NH army so far. Just need some Revs and a few more chain rasps

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So as you may have seen from the other forums I am now officially painting back log free. But also money free. I will however eventually get more money to get more back log!

So my question is - with the following NH army already. What could be good next purchases, other than the given which is the Black Coach, that will take some saving for :)

40 Chainrasps, 20 Bladegheist, 5 Hexwraiths, 3 Spirit Hosts, 4 Grimghast Reapers, 5 Glaivewraith Stalkers,  2 Spirit Torments, 2 Chainghasts, KoS on Ethereal Steed, Lord Executioner,  GoS, Reikenor and Lady Olynder.

I currently play either Chainguard or The Condemned , mostly Condemned to be fair, and the Shroudguard.

My thoughts are The Kraven King, 3 more Spirit Hosts or maybe some Dreadblade Harrows? Mourngul would be good for the model, but not necessarily worth it to play.

Let me know what you all think.

 

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6 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

If you can swing it, this: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Nighthaunt-Court-Of-The-Craven-King-2019

That will give you a few more units to make other battalions with. Otherwise, what you're already considering sounds good to me.

Yeah I saw this but I figured that for me it's not that great value for money.  I'd be getting Kurdoss,who I would like to have but that's it.  The Harridans and Grimghast are only 10 models and so I would need more to get the best out of them and from a game play perspective, the Harridans would cost me CP's to buff that I prefer to use for WoT. The Hexwraiths would come in handy but they are the models I hate in Nighthaunt, aesthetically speaking, and I didn't enjoy painting them. Lastly, although 10 more Chainrasps and 10 more Bladegheists wouldn't go amiss, they don't add anything new.

So I'd be paying £83 for a £23 model I want and the other £60 pays for units that would need more models adding to them therefore costing even more.

Would the Black Coach be better if I had £83 to spend?

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12 hours ago, Oak7603 said:

I'd be paying £83 for a £23 model I want and the other £60 pays for units that would need more models adding to them therefore costing even more.

Would the Black Coach be better if I had £83 to spend?

You'd be paying £83 for an ingress into those other units that you might want to fill out later, at a significant price discount. But, I'm also someone who has over 8K of models, so I may not be the best source of advice there.

I would say the Black Coach is the better buy. Unlike Kurdoss or many of those units, the Black Coach will see a lot of play unless a points or rules change happens that upsets things. The BC is an excellent unit and is in most of my top lists.

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Nighthaunt folks! I've realized that I have a 2000 point list for every Death faction except this one. However, after painting 90 skeletons and 80 Mortek, I'm not really wanting to do another horde list. Is there a way to play Nighthaunt somewhat-decently at a lower model count? Most of the lists I see tend to have 40-60 blobs in them (and at $50 for ten my wallet weeps). I'm not looking to take a top table or anything, just not die in the first turn.

 

If it helps I really like the idea of having Olynder, Kurds, and Reikenor on the table at once, but I realize thats probably hindering my list for artifacts and whatnot.

Edited by Euphanism
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11 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

You'd be paying £83 for an ingress into those other units that you might want to fill out later, at a significant price discount. But, I'm also someone who has over 8K of models, so I may not be the best source of advice there.

HAHAHA! That is crazy. Good crazy, but crazy!

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8 hours ago, Euphanism said:

Nighthaunt folks! I've realized that I have a 2000 point list for every Death faction except this one. However, after painting 90 skeletons and 80 Mortek, I'm not really wanting to do another horde list. Is there a way to play Nighthaunt somewhat-decently at a lower model count? Most of the lists I see tend to have 40-60 blobs in them (and at $50 for ten my wallet weeps). I'm not looking to take a top table or anything, just not die in the first turn.

 

If it helps I really like the idea of having Olynder, Kurds, and Reikenor on the table at once, but I realize thats probably hindering my list for artifacts and whatnot.

IMO, it's a horde army with a lot of low point models and so you will inevitably need some blobs somewhere if you want to play rather than just collect a specific number of points. Chainrasps are easy to paint though so can be a quick way to bulk up numbers and there are loads of people selling them second hand on sprues, or built unpainted, to get them a lot cheaper. My NH army is 2200 when I play it with 2 Battalions and I have 40 Chainrasps and 20 Bladeghiest as my main blobs. 

There is the Black coach (220) , Mourngul (280?), Lady Olynder (200) and Kurdoss (180)/Reikenor (170) and you're already half way there. Spirit Torments (120) and Guardians of Souls (140) are generally needed in any NH army too with the Knight of Shrouds (120/100) the 'normal' General. Add on the Bladegheists (20 = 320) and the Chainrasps (40 = 280) and you're very nearly there. The thing with NH is that one Army won't rule them all. You need to change the lineup to fit the opponent and the battleplan.

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On 6/21/2020 at 3:16 AM, Oak7603 said:

IMO, it's a horde army with a lot of low point models and so you will inevitably need some blobs somewhere if you want to play rather than just collect a specific number of points. Chainrasps are easy to paint though so can be a quick way to bulk up numbers and there are loads of people selling them second hand on sprues, or built unpainted, to get them a lot cheaper. My NH army is 2200 when I play it with 2 Battalions and I have 40 Chainrasps and 20 Bladeghiest as my main blobs. 

There is the Black coach (220) , Mourngul (280?), Lady Olynder (200) and Kurdoss (180)/Reikenor (170) and you're already half way there. Spirit Torments (120) and Guardians of Souls (140) are generally needed in any NH army too with the Knight of Shrouds (120/100) the 'normal' General. Add on the Bladegheists (20 = 320) and the Chainrasps (40 = 280) and you're very nearly there. The thing with NH is that one Army won't rule them all. You need to change the lineup to fit the opponent and the battleplan.

I totally forgot the Mourngul was Nighthaunt now, so I can blow the dust off of him now. I also have 10 Grimgast Reapers from a long-ago Legion of Nagash build, are they worth investing in more of for a NH specific list? I think Ive talked myself out of not using contrast for this so the blobs sound less intimidating.

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I don't use Grimghast Reapers and have seen a few comments and reviews saying that they're not as good.

I went Bladegheist with their +1 attack on charges, retreat and attack in the same turn and their Battalion which gives them a 5+ deathless save on top of them having a better model. Put a Spirit Torment or Chainghasts nearby and you're rerolling hit rolls too. 

Others here will have their views and could advocate for Grimghast and how 2" range benefits them better or the Mortal Wound output from the Death Knell and so on. It all depends on what Army you're looking to build. 

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Hi guys, 

I've been reading a lot of pages on army comps and have been thoroughly reading @EnixLHQ beginner's guide to NH (several times actually, it's just so good) and I've managed to come up with a 2k pts list and I'd like to have your feedback on it. Maybe thoughts on how to play it optimally. I know posts like ''please validate my list'' are kinda annoying but I figured that in these COVID times, the forum is a bit slower and maybe some of you wouldn't mind having a look. Here it is: 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
Spirit Torment (120)
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (70)
Black Coach (220)
Shroudguard (110)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

The general thought is that a have the big blob of Grimghasts that is rather killy, I have 2 units of 10 bladegheists with KoSoES in a shroudguard battalion that can either pop up behind, or be the front line if I decide to have the chainrasps in Underworld. I'm choosing the Dreadblade as general for the little teleporting tricks that he can do, Hopefully the Spirit Torment and Chainghasts create a nice little bubble, and I have the black Coach for support/healing until it's ready to charge in. 

I have a group of 6 Spirit Torments that I wanted to use in a 1k list but I managed to fit it in here as another screen/objective holder, along the chainrasps. I could potentially have another 20man chainrasps painted too. Would that be better? 

Let me know what you guys think in terms of army comp and how to play it, thanks :)

Also, I have a question about deepstriking bladegheists with a Spirit Torment. I find it's extremely hard to have them wholly within 12 when I try to charge a unit. I was wondering how you guys proceed. Do you try to charge with the Spirit Torment first, and then if it misses, you cancel the idea of charging the bladegheists? In that case, you're just sitting ducks waiting to get destroyed next turn. I've had issues in the past game I had and it made me think that maybe bladegheists are made to be on the starting line and move quickly with support, rather than missing their charges in the back, or attacking without the ST buff (which makes them a lot less effective). Anyways, would appreciate feedback on this too :)

Thanks again!

Edited by Jabbuk
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I'm new to all this compared to others but I would always charge my Bladegheists for the +1 and then a possible WoT and then move the Support up next turn.

If you do it the other way, well any time to be fair, is that you could still end up with the Support charging and getting there but the Bladegheist failing. I'd rather have my Bladegheists in without the support than the support in without the Bladegheists.

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3 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

... I've managed to come up with a 2k pts list and I'd like to have your feedback on it. ...

It could work, certainly. I don't see that much wrong with it, but it'll depend on how you play it. The difference between Spirit Hosts and Chainrasps is that Spirit Hosts have a decent expectation of 1-2 mortal wounds per base, so they can bypass saves, while the 'rasps just have more wounds-per-point spent on a unit. 6 Spirit Hosts with a Spirit Torment is pretty killy, though they may die too quick to be too useful, and Capture Soul Energy will have a tough time returning models, though it can be used to heal the bases.

As for the charging question... Ideally you will be saving CP for charge re-rolls. In terms of what you can spend CP on that is your top priority, bar none. Second would be KoS, third would be Spectral Summons, and then so on. But, other than re-rolling charges, all the rest of them are conditional, meaning that you'd only spend them elsewhere if it's more optimal to do so. It's always optimal to ensure charges and fish for WoT. So, specific to your question, I would charge with the ST first and see if it made the charge. If not, re-roll. Now you have two Bladegeist units to attempt (assuming you took both). Roll one. Did it make it? No? Re-roll. Assuming you have both CP, of course.

BUT

I generally wouldn't ever deepstrike my threat units in this way, though. Smaller groups will do way better at dropping in to kill something out-of-pocket for exactly this reason. You'll want the hero to be able to still give that 12" bubble at the edge of that 9" distance even if it doesn't make the charge. You have 3" of play assuming your charging unit isn't too big. So a ST and one group of 'gheists, or a ST and those Spirit Hosts, or whatever, could more reliably make their charge, fish for WoT, and still be within the ST's bubble even though you didn't lead the charges with him.

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Thoughts on this list?

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King (180)
Lord Executioner (80)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
4 x Chainghasts (140)
4 x Chainghasts (140)

Behemoths
Black Coach (220)

Battalions
Execution Horde (100)
Shroudguard (110)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

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3 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

What's the goal of it? How do you intend to play it?

It’s for a teams tournament. We have a few restrictions that limit what I can do:
-each warscroll can only be taken by one of your 4 team members (Chainrasp Hordes and most of the Soul Wars units are already taken by the Grand Host player on our team). This applies to Endless Spells too.
-no double-ups of Allegiances within the team.

we decided to do a theme where we’re all running Death armies, we’ve got Bonereapers, Legion of Blood and Grand Host of Nagash. I decided I don’t want to run my Flesh-Eaters due to past bad experiences, so I had to choose between Legion of Night, Soulblight or Nighthaunt. I have about a month to get the army built and painted and decided Nighthaunt would be the easier of the 3.

my thoughts behind what I’ve included: I really like Kurdoss and Reiknor, they are probably the main reason I’m doing Nighthaunt so they both have to be there. I dislike Grimghasts and Glaivewraiths, and as mentioned above I can’t take Chainrasps. So as far as units, Bladeghiests are my favourite (although I believe they’re incredibly overpointed), Spirit Hosts I needed as battleline, and Chainghasts are pretty much the only shooting in the army. I like the Black Coach model but it’s up in the air weather I’ll get it, built and painted in time (to be clear I still have to actually buy the army, I’m just tossing ideas around at the moment). Spirit Torment combos with the Chainghasts. The Lord Executioner is a pretty cool model and makes the battalion with the Spirit Hosts. Regarding the battalions, I’m unsure if I’ll actually take them or drop them for more units, the above list with 2 battalions is still about 8 deployment drops so most armies will get to choose who’s going first and I don’t really think the battalions do enough to be worth it (with most of my heroes being named, I have little use for extra artefacts anyway). I will probably give the Lord Executioner the command trait/artefact that makes him a Wizard, although I haven’t given much thought about those things yet.

as for how I’m going to play the army, Nighthaunt from what I can tell aren’t really a rush forward and kill things army so that’ll take some getting used to, luckily I’ll have a lot of games before the event to practice, but I really haven’t thought much about ‘how’ I’m going to play them.

the following is a list of other units I’d like/still thinking about fitting in somehow:
-Myrmourn Banshees
-Tomb Banshee
-Cairn Wraith
-The Briar Queen + unit
-Hexwraiths 
-Knight of Shrouds (foot and/or mounted)
-Nighthaunt endless spells

i wanted to ally in a Vampire Lord or something to interact with the Summonable keyword more, but of course Legion of Blood has those already spoken for

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3 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

It’s for a teams tournament. 

Oof. Is it all players at the table at the same time, or 1v1 bracket style? I ask this because if you can manage it the Emerald Host super-battalion gives a debuff that applies -1 to save rolls from all attacks, no matter the source to a designated enemy hero. It's a great team debuff that works for your allies, but obviously only while you're a player who was active at some point in the game. In a bracket style tournament this means nothing for anyone but you.

I'm not going to critique your list because it seems pretty sound for what you have access to, but you're right in that it's not going to be a killy list. You can delay game with the Execution Horde, but unless you grab enough objectives and hold them I don't see this list gaining much advantage.

Consider the Dolorous Guard. Even if you don't use it to expand your general's health pool, you can give Hexwraiths extra attacks on the charge. This can free up your Spirit Hosts to be a single unit, who with a Spirit Torment can be extremely durable and deadly. In fact, check out my "all comers" list a couple pages back. It's core is similar to what you have access to, and you could drop out what you don't for whatever you need.

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