AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Hannibal]

Hi all,

I grabbed some really old sprues (and a few new ones) and scratched built a Curseling (left) as well as a Fatemaster (right). I tries to give them the weapon / equipment which is named on the warscroll or which you can see on the original models.

 

 

I also own a 10 men Chaos Warriors unit made out of these old but still beautiful models.

HTG

[Jabbuk]

What do you guys think of paying for a unit of 10 pinks on your starting lineup? Would you pay for pinks only if you lay heavily into them? I'm trying to make up my mind if it wouldn't be better to just sub them for 2 units of Kairic, for example. Since we can summon them. 

 

Thoughts on pinks as battleline?

[Hannibal]

10 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Thoughts on pinks as battleline?

There is no way that I buy or even paint 50 models to get a 10 men battleline unit even if that unit would be the most broken thing out there. 

Thanks, GW, no interest! 

Gaming wise you have to consider that these 50 wounds melt extremely fast due to the fact that they are Galletian Veterans. 

[Duke of Mousillon]

@Hannibal good luck lad. I myself just started converting blue horrors. It is a pain but i suppose i will summon them often enough to put in the work. 

@Jabbuk depends as far as I am concerned on what you want to do. Pinks in the main list can be valuable. Using bridge to throw them mid board turn 1 for example. But I agree they are expensive for the main list. 

It is also worth remembering that you are allowed to play 9 pinks and 1 blue to get around that pesky Bounty Hunter batallion. Or 19/1. So if your battleline requirements are already checked and you still want to have pinks in the list I would recommend using 1 blue in the unit. 

[Jabbuk]

21 minutes ago, Duke of Mousillon said:

@Hannibal good luck lad. I myself just started converting blue horrors. It is a pain but i suppose i will summon them often enough to put in the work. 

@Jabbuk depends as far as I am concerned on what you want to do. Pinks in the main list can be valuable. Using bridge to throw them mid board turn 1 for example. But I agree they are expensive for the main list. 

It is also worth remembering that you are allowed to play 9 pinks and 1 blue to get around that pesky Bounty Hunter batallion. Or 19/1. So if your battleline requirements are already checked and you still want to have pinks in the list I would recommend using 1 blue in the unit. 

Yes I was about to answer Hannibal about the all but one pink to make them not battleline. That being said, I really just use them as a durable screen in the front. I don't use bridge. 

[NinthMusketeer]

I find it hard to justify them as battleline because bounty hunters is so good for bringing them down. The main reason would be for expert conquerers.

Edited October 12, 2022 by NinthMusketeer

[NinthMusketeer]

On 10/11/2022 at 2:40 PM, Sinfullyvannila said:

Just because the writers spin the trope doesn't make it good or intuitive.

Correct; using a trope neither makes nor prevents something from being intuitive. It would factor into originality, but is non sequitur to its intuitive factor.

[Duke of Mousillon]

You could actually make the non- battleline pink horror blob with the one blue in there Bounty Hunters. I dont know if you want to do that but it'd be funny to have them actually be damage 2 against enemy battleline.

[Hannibal]

Hi all,

 

is it possible to build Enlightend on Foot with spare weapons from the Enlightened on Disc kit and bodies from the standard Tzengors kit?

For instance, let´s say I get 2 sets of Enlightened on Disc and 1 set of Tzaangors. Can I then build

6 Skyfires

6 Enlightened on Foot

(4 spare Tzaangors)?

 

[Jabbuk]

2 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Hi all,

 

is it possible to build Enlightend on Foot with spare weapons from the Enlightened on Disc kit and bodies from the standard Tzengors kit?

For instance, let´s say I get 2 sets of Enlightened on Disc and 1 set of Tzaangors. Can I then build

6 Skyfires

6 Enlightened on Foot

(4 spare Tzaangors)?

 

Ultimately everything is possible with the right skills and tools. But they don't have the same bodies and poses, if that's what you're asking. At least from what I remember.

[Ganigumo]

9 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Hi all,

 

is it possible to build Enlightend on Foot with spare weapons from the Enlightened on Disc kit and bodies from the standard Tzengors kit?

For instance, let´s say I get 2 sets of Enlightened on Disc and 1 set of Tzaangors. Can I then build

6 Skyfires

6 Enlightened on Foot

(4 spare Tzaangors)?

 

The spears from the enlightened kit fit on the bodies from the normal tzaangor kit.

I did exactly that myself to build my enlightened on foot.

You'll need some 40mm bases too though.

[Alpidur]

Hi guys! I am a sylvaneth player but I like tzeench so I want to begin a new army! What ca I buy to begin an army? I have 10 pink horrors, Gaunt on disc and 10 blu horrors and brimstone! Thanks to all!

[Duke of Mousillon]

@Alpidur we welcome you desciple. So for a start you should decide on another heroe you would like to use. Maybe even two. But at least 1. I would advise you on a demon heroe so you can use the demon spell lore in addition to the mortal spell lore. The Fluxmaster seems good right now and you can resummon him with summoning points if need be. Same goes for the Herald on foot if you prefer him. If you would like another heroe from the mortal side maybe one who can be your leader. As far as we have gathered so far. The Curseling and the Magister/ Magister on Disc both seem interesting with the Cul Demagogue command trait. My personal interest is the Ogroid Thaumaturge with Arcane Sacrifice as a command trait. Ofcourse a big wizard chicken would be a great heroe but they are expensive to I will leave them out for a "beginner" advise. Then we talk about battle line. You have one pink horror unit. That is already a battleline. Do you know a special coven you'd like to play? Because if you already know you want to play flamers in Eternal Conflagration then that is your battleline maybe right there. Or maybe you'd like to play screamers in Host Arcanum? That is your battleline right there. Generically. Pink horrors are terribly expensive but also terribly efficient and good. Outside of screamers host arcanum the kairic acolytes are our cheapest battleline but I hate the model. And Tzaangors are surprisingly good in melee with double blades. So it is up to your own style of play. I think all 3 generic battlelines have a purpose. If you already have an idea for a specific changecoven you would like to built towards maybe we can give you more specific advise.

I would advise you to get heroes and battleline units figured out for yourself when you are just starting small before looking into options like Enlightened or Skyfires. Never play chariots. I mean go for it if you love them. But I cannot recommend them. Only think about flamers when you want to play Eternal Conflagration. 

Buy 20 more blues and brimstone to split from your pink horrors. The 10 blues and brimstone you already have you use for summoning during the game.

I have mixed feelings on the Vanguard Disciples of Tzeenthc Box. If you do not mind spending the money and having additional units you might play in a different list sometime maybe it is for you. It is still a discount right. Maybe you can see it as "2 battlelines, a heroe and 2 summonable units" (I do not see you summoning flamers and screamers too often really. Most times its horrors or small heroes but it is an option) but personally I am not liking it too much but that is probably also part of me not wanting Acolytes. 

I would say dont sweat it with buying the tzeentch endless spells. It is probably good to have one in the list to summom for free at the beginning but it is not backbreaking to not use that ability. If you already have generic endless spells Spell Portal, Purple Sun, Cogs etc. Those are good. But you can even play without endless spells for a start! 

So all in all. Get 1-2 more heroes (probably want one who can use the demon spell lore). Or maybe just get one big chicken if you feel like spending the money. Get one more battlelline depending on your subfaction and playstyle and that should already be close to 1000 points because your 10 pinks and Gaunt Summoner on Disc are over 500 on their own. And dedinetly get 20 blues and brims for your army (at least 10 of both so you can actually split your pinks. But then you might not have enough for summoning and blues are maybe the most summoned unit of ours).

 

Edit: I am aware that right now the Gaunt Summoner theoretically can cast demon spells. He is a demon. You can give him 1 demon spell to know. But I am convinced for now that that is a misprint in the book and he will be faq into an arcanite again. That's what my advise is based on since the faq has to drop at some point. But for now it is not just theoretically true but also practically. So go ahead and give your Gaunt Summoner that Demon Spell when building lists!

Edited October 16, 2022 by Duke of Mousillon

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 9/24/2022 at 11:29 PM, Rors said:

You still pay points for the endless spell you can autocast at the start of the game yeah? Just looking through a lot of lists here and people don't have any of them so I'm wondering if it's a free option they're not putting into lists.

Also, sigil looks really fun with some StD cultist allies. 70 points gets you 10 fangs that bring back a model every turn.. you could just sit the sigel with a couple units and summon 4 spawn a battleround while deck chair guarding a home objective.

Yes you do have to pay.

Im also planning on running some Untamed Beasts and Raptoryx for chaff.

[Sinfullyvannila]

3 hours ago, Alpidur said:

Hi guys! I am a sylvaneth player but I like tzeench so I want to begin a new army! What ca I buy to begin an army? I have 10 pink horrors, Gaunt on disc and 10 blu horrors and brimstone! Thanks to all!

My answer is solely dependant on how cool your local group is with off brand proxies. If they're cool with it I'd say get the Vanguard Box, Endless Spells and it least two more boxes of Blues/brims(1 for enough models for splits and the extras for summons). If you're confident with your conversion skills you could get a second Vanguard and convert the Magister into a Fatemaster(Maybe use half of an axehead from the Tzaangor kit as the Glaive head and use some greenstuff to attach a shield to where his sword would be sheathed on his back, the official base size has changed from 40mm-Large Flying base which is roughly 60mm so I'd recommend using something similar to the Tzaangors if mentioned below). With this you'd want some cheap chaos spawn proxies like Reaper's lovecraftian inspired stuff or DND's Roper or Grell kits. They need to be on 50 mill bases but you can get the DND ones for super cheap.

If they arent cool with it I'd say get the Thaumaturge and try to track down the Battleforce box if available.

In either case I'd recommend getting a total of 30 Tzaangors, then you could use your Tzaangors with the Savage Greatblades as Enlightened on Foot. Mout them on the 32s and then get some extra 40mms, then put a piece of ferrous metal on a 40mm and a magnet on the bottom of the Tzaangors original 32mm. Now theyre future proof. 

At any point a Lord of Change kit and a Burning Chariot kit is a good buy. Its possible to magnetize the BC kit to swap between Herald on Disc and Herald on BC. The LoC is good with either the Shooty rod or as Kairos.

There is unfortunately not a straightforward or cheap way to build a Tzeentch army. I'd actually recommend holding off and saving up until GW restocks the Endless Spells and we find out if Battle Bonds from the current season is sticking around(because if its not our Tzaangors are going to suck) unless you can find a battleforce box. It's really not an army I'd recommend without serious reservations.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Sinfullyvannila

[Sinfullyvannila]

I have a game planned for this wednesday, first on for 3E. Planning on bringing the following list. If you can't tell im more comfortable with high drops/chaff. Planning on summoning in an Exalted Flamer if the Flamers last. The Fatemaster has the tome so he can back up the Flamers and/or the Tzaangors. Eventually ill replace the Flamers with Skyfires but I only have 3 painted and its difference of about 20 hours between getting 6 Flamers tabletop ready and getting the Skyfires to go with the ones I have painted.

 

[b]++ **Pitched Battle GHB 2022** 2,000 (Chaos - Tzeentch) [2,000pts] ++[/b]

[b]+ Core Battalion +[/b]

[b]Core Battalion: Bounty Hunters[/b]

[b]Core Battalion: Expert Conquerors[/b]

[b]Core Battalion: Warlord:[/b] Extra Enhancement: Artefacts of Power

[b]+ Leader +[/b]

[b]Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch [140pts]:[/b] Fold Reality

[b]Fatemaster [145pts]:[/b] Bolt of Tzeentch, Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders
. Arcane Tome

[b]Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc [170pts]:[/b] Fold Reality, Nine-eyed Tome, Staff of Change, Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders

[b]Magister on Disc of Tzeentch [145pts]:[/b] Arcane Suggestion, Cult Demagogue, General, Warlord - 1-2 Commanders

[b]+ Battleline +[/b]

[b]Kairic Acolytes [120pts]:[/b] 10 Kairic Acolytes, Cursed Blade and Arcanite Shield, 2x Cursed Glaive and Arcanite Shield, Expert Conquerors - 2-3 Troops, Scrollholders, Vulcharc

[b]Screamers of Tzeentch [200pts]:[/b] 6 Screamers of Tzeentch, Expert Conquerors - 2-3 Troops, Reinforced

[b]Tzaangors [175pts]:[/b] 10 Tzaangors, Expert Conquerors - 2-3 Troops, Musician, Savage Blade and Arcanite Shield, Savage Greatblades, Standard Bearer

[b]+ Other +[/b]

[b]Flamers of Tzeentch [380pts]:[/b] 6 Flamers of Tzeentch, Reinforced, Warlord - 1-2 Troops

[b]Raptoryx [85pts]:[/b] 6 Raptoryx, Bounty Hunters - 2-3 Troops

[b]Tzaangor Enlightened [95pts]:[/b] 3 Tzaangor Enlightened, Bounty Hunters - 2-3 Troops

[b]Tzaangor Enlightened [95pts]:[/b] 3 Tzaangor Enlightened, Bounty Hunters - 2-3 Troops

[b]Untamed Beasts [70pts]:[/b] 9 Untamed Beasts, Tzeentch

[b]+ Allegiance +[/b]

[b]Allegiance[/b]
. Allegiance: Tzeentch: The Hosts Arcanum

[b]+ Game Options +[/b]

[b]Battle Tactics (GHB2022)[/b]

[b]Game Type:[/b] 2000 Points - Battlehost

[b]GHB 2022 Rules[/b]

[b]Grand Strategy:[/b] Master of Destiny

[b]+ Malign Sorcery +[/b]

[b]Endless Spell: Burning Sigil of Tzeentch [50pts][/b]

[b]Endless Spell: Chronomantic Cogs [40pts][/b]

[b]Endless Spell: Purple Sun of Shyish [90pts][/b]

[b]++ Total: [2,000pts] ++[/b]

Created with [url=https://battlescribe.net]BattleScribe[/url]

[Duke of Mousillon]

6 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

find out if Battle Bonds from the current season is sticking around

You just reminded me that fighting in two ranks is not part of the core rules and that if they do not remember this for the upcoming Ogor Codex the Ogor book will have a completely useless half again. 

But yes. I am afraid that Screamers and Tzaangors would suffer a lot from loosing that rule. To be fair you can still string out Tzaangors in a safe line because they are only on 32 mm bases? 

[Sinfullyvannila]

23 minutes ago, Duke of Mousillon said:

You just reminded me that fighting in two ranks is not part of the core rules and that if they do not remember this for the upcoming Ogor Codex the Ogor book will have a completely useless half again. 

But yes. I am afraid that Screamers and Tzaangors would suffer a lot from loosing that rule. To be fair you can still string out Tzaangors in a safe line because they are only on 32 mm bases? 

Yeah thats a good point. You still kind have to get like 7 models in there for them to be worth it. I kinda have a feeling Battle Bonds is gonna get patched in because it's AFAIK universally popular among influencers.

IMO, 3 screamers in a list are always going to be a solid choice just because of their high move and being only 5 points away from the lowest cost unit. 6 is probably also gonna be fine with anything that knows all Daemon Lore spells for Fold Reality.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Sinfullyvannila

[Duke of Mousillon]

I was actually flirting with the idea of  a unit of 9 Screamers to use fold on in Host Arcanum. Maybe it would be overkill but I am quite excited to test out their new profile.

[Sinfullyvannila]

1 hour ago, Duke of Mousillon said:

I was actually flirting with the idea of  a unit of 9 Screamers to use fold on in Host Arcanum. Maybe it would be overkill but I am quite excited to test out their new profile.

Yeah ill probably do that eventually. I think I have exactly 9 screamers but I really dont feel like building any more this week. Lots of kitbashing exhausting me. 

[Duke of Mousillon]

Ai. I feel your conversion pain. The Blues and Brims are my burden rn. My first list goal for a 1000 points Host Arcanum would probably look smth like 

Kairos

Ogroid Thamaturge with Arcane Sacrifice and Arcane Tome

2x 3 Screamer

1x 3 Skyfires

All in a Battle Regiment to decide about who goes first. Just to have smth to play while I am converting the other stuff up for play. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

Looking at the leaks in the Slaves to Darkness books and it seems like Cultists are going to be Undivided only. Their warscrolls aren't up but one of the enhancements gives them the Mark of the General. So it looks like they'll be Allies only.

Also Chaos Warriors are getting a huge glow up.

[Duke of Mousillon]

Uhhhh. I would be excited to finally use more mortal units in Tzeentch. Even if I have to use the Coalitiom rules to bring them. Which would mean they cannot be battleline right? And also lose out on our Faction abilities. But what faction abilities do we even have for them to use. Fate Dice? They lose out on using Fate Dice.

[angrycontra]

4 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said:

Uhhhh. I would be excited to finally use more mortal units in Tzeentch. Even if I have to use the Coalitiom rules to bring them. Which would mean they cannot be battleline right? And also lose out on our Faction abilities. But what faction abilities do we even have for them to use. Fate Dice? They lose out on using Fate Dice.

Shield of fate spell (5+ ward) can be used on tzeentch units, not just disciples of tzeentch. Gaunt summoners can deepstrike them and lord of change/kairos hands out +1 cast to all tzeentch wizards.

[Colonic]

Perhaps we should have a DoT subforum? Powers that be, we beseech you for this holy change!