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RuneBrush

AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

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I'm not familiar with the FEC army but I got a FEC SC Box to build the Vampire on zombie dragon. And I really like the crypt monsters: flayers and horrors.

My question here: I'm a LoN / Death player. What is the best all around option : the Crypt Flayers or the Crypt horrors? (on can fly the other hit harder I've compared the warscrolls but I can't decide (and it seems that you can't magnetize either).

 

PS: later, I'll probably get another SC (but get rid of all gouhls)

 

EDIT: my bad, both are FEC only, I have to build them as Vargheist to be included in a LoN army

 

Edited by GeneralZero

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1 hour ago, Glaurung said:

Horrors are better imho, -1 to hit renders flayers useless 

Flayers doesn't loose their mortal wounds on -1 to hit

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6 minutes ago, Fluttershy said:

Flayers doesn't loose their mortal wounds on -1 to hit

It's a mortal wound on a 6 to hit, right?  So a -1 would, unless something changed in the rules for 2.0, be applied after the roll of a 6, changing it to a 5, and therefore not causing the mortal wound.

Or it is a 6 to wound, I forget and don't have my battletome handy.  In which case you are right, a -1 to hit would not affect it.

Edited by wayniac

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Looks like an older scroll (before "unmodified" became the standard), but back then "on a 6" meant the same thing as today's "unmodified".

So yeah I reckon Flayers are safe with a -1 to hit, and still do mortals on a 6.

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So does a +1 mean they do mortals on a 5(+1=6) but not on a 6(+1=7) then? Hahaha

 

(It's not 6+, or 6 or higher, it is plain 6)

Edited by amysrevenge

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10 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Looks like an older scroll (before "unmodified" became the standard), but back then "on a 6" meant the same thing as today's "unmodified".

So yeah I reckon Flayers are safe with a -1 to hit, and still do mortals on a 6.

that's true. already had a lot of discussions about that. ;)

for example:

the warcroll ability "Gaping Maw" from the "Abhorrant Ghul King on Terrorgheist" clearly states: "[..] is 6 or more, [..]", todays "6+" - after modifiers

the warscroll ability "Skewering Strike" from the "Crypt Flayers" clearly states: "[..] of 6 [..]", todays "unmodified 6" - before modifiers

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If it doesn’t specify then it doesn’t specify. Don’t add words. They’ve already shown that they went over flesheaters sheets with a fine tooth comb (like the nerf to minions to WHOLLY within).  So if it doesn’t say unmodified then I’m taking all the advantages I can grt

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13 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:

If it doesn’t specify then it doesn’t specify. Don’t add words. They’ve already shown that they went over flesheaters sheets with a fine tooth comb (like the nerf to minions to WHOLLY within).  So if it doesn’t say unmodified then I’m taking all the advantages I can grt

so. like amysrevenge already mentioned, your Crypt Flayers are loosing their Mortal Wounds on a roll of 6 with a +1 modifier?

the wholly within thing might look like a nerf, but you're still able to allocate wounds to models that aren't within first, so you're able to roll for all remaining models within and with those lovely new summoning rules - in combination with our Magestic Horror trait - FEC got way more buffed then nerfed.

if done right, you're able to play additinally ~1000 pts per (2000er) match, that's insane!

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2 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Unless you are running more than 2 GK how are you adding 1000 points? Just out of interest 

with those lovely rules: "Magestic Horror" and "Choose General"

for example: start your "summoning chain" with an "Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon", he'll be your general with Magestic Horror trait.

round 1, summon 2x Varghulf Courtiers for free, play your general(s) aggressive (quick melee) depending on your opponent your general should be dead in round 2 or 3, pick a new general (could be any hero) and give him the Magestic Horror trait. summon units x2.. rinse and repeat until all your heroes are dead/battle is over

thanks to the Magestic Horror trait, if your general has no summon ability (like the Crypt Ghast or Varghulf Courtier) they can use the Summon Men-at-arms ability from the Abhorrant Ghoul King warscroll

i personally ran out of ghouls every match i played and won by the numbers of ghouls controling objectives..

you're constantly respawning (slain) ghouls and summoning new units of 2x10

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43 minutes ago, Fluttershy said:

*snib*

Is the "select a new general" rule in effect for matched play? That could be a cute tactic for suicide big-guys.

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8 minutes ago, CharnelChimera said:

Is the "select a new general" rule in effect for matched play? That could be a cute tactic for suicide big-guys.

oh, you're right

"If your general is slain in a Pitched
Battle game, do not select a new one."

damn.. ;)

 

so you might wanna use "Royal Family", 1 CP summon 2x Varghulfs, 1 CP to summon 2x GK and get those 10er ghoul units per CP from your "new" GKs, could be an option

Edited by Fluttershy

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Yea. You can’t do that. So I don’t think you could summon 1000 points. I have ability running two GK to summon 3 horrors/flayers and maybe some ghouls

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With two GK and a GK on ZD you have 1000 points if you play royal family

400 for ghouls, 280 for GK, 320 for varghoulfs

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Royal family is what I played and it worked well first game. Throwing the 4 heroes on the table turn 1 then summoning ghouls across the game worked well. Also summonable GK works really well with endless spells like pendulum as you can setup really good hits. 

 

I do want to try a GK monster list once I get the models as well. I really feel FEC needs the summoning as without it their units are over pointed. I found even with the extra models  from royal family the army damage output still was a bit low it’s a grind objectives win list. 

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On 7/10/2018 at 6:18 PM, GeneralZero said:

the Crypt Flayers or the Crypt horrors?

Can’t really say for sure.

Against low bravery opponents flayers do their work, while being fast. Supported by a varguhlf or the infernal, They can even hold their own on a flank which is really fun, if being summoned in.

if you want to cave in some heads, take six horrors with a king and watch them gravestones work.

With a bit of planning (right arm sets for the bodies) and 3x1 round neodymium magnets all is possible, although my wings and arms got mixed and I only used 2x1 magnets...so they are a bit whobbly.

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Quick question with regards to Ghoul Patrol:

Do you -have- to setup in outflank with the Ghoul Patrol or can you set them up on the field normally?  I'm just thinking if I don't outflank them, I might end up getting better hero support along with the ability to make more ghouls.

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If I remember correctly, the ghoul patrol units enter the game from a board edge after the first moving phase... fully within 6“, min 9“ from enemy 

could use your own edge or side...

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Played my first real competitive game with FEC in AOS 2 last night verses a friend who is an experienced tournament regular. We were playing the new GH2018 scenario, The Better Part Of Valor. Here are the lists we used. 

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts - Mortal Realm: Hysh  - Delusion: Crusading Army 

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)

- General
- Command Trait : Magestic Horror - Artefact : Lens of Refraction  

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400) - Artefact : Aetherquartz Brooch

Abhorrant Ghoul King (140) 

Abhorrant Ghoul King (140) 

6 x Crypt Horrors (320) 

10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

10 x Crypt Ghouls (100) 

Royal Family (150) 

Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Quicksilver Swords (20) 

1 Command Point 50 

TOTAL: 2000/2000 

 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash

Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)

- General

- Lores of the Dead Spell 1 : Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)

- Lores of the Dead Spell 2 : Fading Vigour (Deathmages)

- Lores of the Dead Spell 3 : Amethystine Pinions (Vampires)

Necromancer (110)

- Artefact : Ossific Diadem

- Lore of the Deathmages : Decrepify

2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)

-Spirit Halberds

40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)

40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)

10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)

 

The First Cohort (160)

Umbral Spellportal (60)

TOTAL: 1990/2000

 

I won a very close game almost exclusively on capturing objectives. Nagash completely shut down most of my magic, which stunk.  I was able to use my summoning to steal one of his back objectives.  The block of 6 Horrors backed by the 2 summoned Vargulfs and the extra refill from the battalion was able to grind through 2 blocks of 40 skeletons (of course he brought 1 of them back).  Nagash Hand Of Dusted my AGKoTG through the Spell Portal and by the end of the game I only had my Horrors left camped on an objective to get the 8 VP. 

 

My take aways:

I like the level of our ability army to grind with the Royal Family, at times it felt on par with the LoN regrow tricks. 

I like our mobility with the summoning and think that we can do some real damage in the scenarios based around spread out objectives.  

I liked the Aetherquartz Brooch for getting a few extra command points over the course of the game.

I still feel our killing power is too limited. I had no real way to kill Nagash. I just had to try to avoid him and manage him as best I could.  There are going to be some targets that we just can not kill reliably.  I would have liked to see how Endless Spells would have helped us, in theory they could help some of our killing power issues and we are somewhat set up to effectively use them. However, Nagash would not have any of it!

Overall I think AOS2 has helped us some but we still seem to have some of the same big issues we had before.

 

Edited by TheWilddog
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Bit confused by royal family. 

So your GKonTG in your royal family can summon a ghoul king instead of horrors/flayers. Still costs you a CP from what I can see? And then GK can only summon ghouls.   

The courtier models can only heal not summon. Vargulf doesn’t summon. So how does royal family actually add horrors/flayers?

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38 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:

o how does royal family actually add horrors/flayers?

It doesn’t... 

You can summon twice with majestic horror for one cp.

royal family let’s you call in a new king, if you have less than 6 on the board...which of course can call in his unit instantly.

Got to have all the command points for that of course...

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