AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[bonzai]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/24/weave-a-web-of-chivalrous-delusion-in-battletome-flesh-eater-courts/

Big changes. Whether I like them or not will depend on the stats of the units, as Noble Deeds encourages our heroes to get into combat. Great for our Varghulf, but probably not so much for the Cardinal. On the plus side it confirms that we get a priest.

Feeding Frenzy is weaker as an individual unit, but can potentially impact multiple units at once. The timing becomes important as most likely you will need to have your Heroes fight first to top off their Noble Deeds, and trigger feeding frenzy.

Abhorrents have been changed to summon in destroyed units, so we no longer start with more points on the board.

At a glance I am not a huge fan of the Delusions, as crusading army seems to be the obvious choice. Especially with the Noble Deeds mechanic encouraging aggressive play.

 

[Sception]

1 hour ago, bonzai said:

At a glance I am not a huge fan of the Delusions, as crusading army seems to be the obvious choice. Especially with the Noble Deeds mechanic encouraging aggressive play.

I agree at first look, but there's still a lot we haven't seen.  Still 3 other delusions, plus it's possible some of the unit rules might be re-worked to encourage a more defensive play style that could fit with defend the realms.  Plus there may be extra subfaction bonuses for particular delusions, etc.

It's a long shot, but I'm hoping for some sort of option to change delusions mid game - like maybe a command trait to change delusions once per game, or maybe as a command ability on one of the heroes, which would allow you to start with a more generic aggressive delusion but transition to something more techy & situational mid game if the right opportunity presents itself.

[Lord Krungharr]

I still don't have a Death army....wondering if FEC might fill that bucket now.  

[Vasshpit]

Random pic time!!

I was curious what a crypt flayers conversion would look like using fell bats wings as the old wings are anatomically ridiculous so I did a little mock up.

I think it looks pretty good. 🤔🤘

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Vasshpit

[Arzalyn]

11 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Random pic time!!

I was curious what a crypt flayers conversion would look like using fell bats wings as the old wings are anatomically ridiculous so I did a little mock up.

I think it looks pretty good. 🤔🤘

 

I wonder how easy will be to make the wing membrane follow the body on the model itself. Personally I was thing of using the fell bats as proxy, as the new cavalry bats help create a theme.

[Lord Krungharr]

I wonder if those Crypt Flayers will stay more or less the same?  They've screamed at me so much and had so many models returned to their units when I've played against them, that now I kinda want them.  But looks like there's a very similar unit in Soulblight (different heads I guess?)...that would almost give me two armies to try with them.

 

[Fellman]

Im so hyped

[JackStreicher]

46 minutes ago, Fellman said:

Im so hyped

[Sception]

"27 warscrolls" matches exactly the current count plus the new units we've already seen.  Unfortunate imo, as I've been hoping some existing scrolls would be retired or merged.  For instance, ghoul king on foot and archregeant are not distinct enough in concept, appearance, or function to warrant being two different units imo.  And the Underworlds warband would make a lot more sense as a single unit than as a separate hero and unit.

And, unless there are more new models coming that haven't been revealed, it remains positively criminal that the generic ghoul, horror, and flayer courtiers are going to remain as key support heroes that you're supposed to build one of the normal box models as when those units can only be fielded in exact multiples of their box size.

[Fellman]

Battelreport on warhammer+ wensday we should se some new rules then

[pikachoux]

Cant wait to get the new FEC. What do you think of the box. Is the content good enough or not?

[muse.desire]

Hello! So I'm new here but I'm not entirely sure that your count is accurate. According to the current aos app for FEC it lists a total of 18 warscrolls (including terrain) and with the new book having 27 total cards that means we have nine new units, right? But by my count we've only seen seven, including the Gorewarden, Grand Justice Gormayne, Ushoran, The Cryptguard, Morbheg Knights, Abhorrant Cardinal, and the Royal Decapitator. As far as I can tell the new varghulf is just an updated sculpt. So unless they are lame and give the Cryptguard two separate warscrolls for their different wepon types (ie Kurnoth hunter style) we should see a minimum of one or two new units still assuming my count isn't way off.

4 hours ago, Sception said:

"27 warscrolls" matches exactly the current count plus the new units we've already seen.  Unfortunate imo, as I've been hoping some existing scrolls would be retired or merged.  For instance, ghoul king on foot and archregeant are not distinct enough in concept, appearance, or function to warrant being two different units imo.  And the Underworlds warband would make a lot more sense as a single unit than as a separate hero and unit.

And, unless there are more new models coming that haven't been revealed, it remains positively criminal that the generic ghoul, horror, and flayer courtiers are going to remain as key support heroes that you're supposed to build one of the normal box models as when those units can only be fielded in exact multiples of their box size.

 

[Sception]

There are currently 20 FEC warscrolls in the App, not 18.

Spoiler

1. abhorrant archregent
2. abhorrant ghoul king (on foot)
3. abhorrant ghoul king on royal terrorgheist
4. abhorrant ghoul king on royal zombie dragon
5. crypt ghast courtier
6. crypt haunter courtier
7. crypt infernal courtier
8. duke crakmarrow
9. varghulf courtier
10. crypt ghouls
11. royal terrorgheist
12. royal zombie dragon
13. cadaverous barricade
14. chalice of ushoran
15. corpsemare stampede
16. charnel throne
17. crypt flayers
18. crypt horrors
19. royal beastflayers
20. the grymwatch

New releases we've already seen:

1. Ushoran
2. Gorewarden
3. Judge
4. Executioner
5. Bishop
6. cryptguard
7. knights
8. varghulf (presumably replacing existing model/warscroll)

20 existing plus seven new is 27, which is how many warscrolls are in the new warscroll pack.

There's a chance there's still new stuff unrevealed, but only if its new models for existing units (unlikely but desperately needed for the generic courtiers if they remain as units) or if by coincidence there are exactly as many old warscrolls going away as there are new units we haven't seen yet, which while technically possible seems tremendously unlikely.

[Sception]

On 11/24/2023 at 10:36 PM, Vasshpit said:

Random pic time!!

I was curious what a crypt flayers conversion would look like using fell bats wings as the old wings are anatomically ridiculous so I did a little mock up.

I think it looks pretty good. 🤔🤘

 

This is a cool conversion idea, but only two of the fell bats in the box have wings that would be usable for this, which would lead to a pretty noticeable chorus line effect, plus the price point of the conversion would be fairly prohibitive.  Six of these flayers would cost us$300, plus tax.

Does anyone know of a decent third party or 3d print option for similar wings?  Since the main body of the model would still be official GW stuff they'd probably still be usable in GW stores/events.

[Arzalyn]

6 hours ago, Sception said:

And, unless there are more new models coming that haven't been revealed, it remains positively criminal that the generic ghoul, horror, and flayer courtiers are going to remain as key support heroes that you're supposed to build one of the normal box models as when those units can only be fielded in exact multiples of their box size.

About the courtiers, maybe the do like they did with the nurgle flies and other similar units, allowing to take a smaller unit if your list include that hero.

[Sception]

4 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

About the courtiers, maybe the do like they did with the nurgle flies and other similar units, allowing to take a smaller unit if your list include that hero.

This is the bare minimum.

Honestly, I just wish 4e would do away with batch pricing.  Give units a minimum, a maximum (increased through reinforcement), and a price per model.

[Vasshpit]

32 minutes ago, Sception said:

only two of the fell bats in the box have wings that would be usable

I think you could totally use all six wings. They don't all have to be spread open. And you could mix and match wings for some variety. 

It would not be the cheapest that's for sure.

31 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

About the courtiers

You could use some from the beasts flayers as count as. 

[Sception]

3 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

You could use some from the beasts flayers as count as. 

Ah, but then you have an incomplete beast-flayers unit, so you're back at the same problem.

This also doesn't help with the horror or flayer courtiers.

[bonzai]

7 hours ago, Sception said:

And, unless there are more new models coming that haven't been revealed, it remains positively criminal that the generic ghoul, horror, and flayer courtiers are going to remain as key support heroes that you're supposed to build one of the normal box models as when those units can only be fielded in exact multiples of their box size.

I am fine with ghouls, horrors, and flayers staying as is. They aren't bad sculpts and have aged well considering. What I am miffed about is that the Varghulf is the only Courtier getting remade. I was really hoping for new Courtiers more than anything else, as it is asinine that we have to short ourselves models from boxes. Used to be that way with demon heralds, and they eventually released some. Fingers crossed that they do the same.

[zombiepiratexxx]

Looking at a lot of the new hero models they may replace some of the Courtiers as the hero pool is looking to expand significantly so some roles may be combined, we won't know until we see the goods though. 

[Sception]

31 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Looking at a lot of the new hero models they may replace some of the Courtiers as the hero pool is looking to expand significantly so some roles may be combined, we won't know until we see the goods though. 

I was hoping that would be the case, but based on the warscroll count it seems unlikely.

[muse.desire]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

There are currently 20 FEC warscrolls in the App, not 18.

  Reveal hidden contents

1. abhorrant archregent
2. abhorrant ghoul king (on foot)
3. abhorrant ghoul king on royal terrorgheist
4. abhorrant ghoul king on royal zombie dragon
5. crypt ghast courtier
6. crypt haunter courtier
7. crypt infernal courtier
8. duke crakmarrow
9. varghulf courtier
10. crypt ghouls
11. royal terrorgheist
12. royal zombie dragon
13. cadaverous barricade
14. chalice of ushoran
15. corpsemare stampede
16. charnel throne
17. crypt flayers
18. crypt horrors
19. royal beastflayers
20. the grymwatch

New releases we've already seen:

1. Ushoran
2. Gorewarden
3. Judge
4. Executioner
5. Bishop
6. cryptguard
7. knights
8. varghulf (presumably replacing existing model/warscroll)

20 existing plus seven new is 27, which is how many warscrolls are in the new warscroll pack.

There's a chance there's still new stuff unrevealed, but only if its new models for existing units (unlikely but desperately needed for the generic courtiers if they remain as units) or if by coincidence there are exactly as many old warscrolls going away as there are new units we haven't seen yet, which while technically possible seems tremendously unlikely.

Oh, I see what I did wrong. I actually forgot about the endless spells, however there is one model not included in your list.

The marrowscroll harald! Seeing as this model was just released it seems unlikely to not be included in the new book. Though I might still be wrong of course. This is the first book to come out since the new dawnbringers came out so maybe it won't be included for some reason? But if it is it could mean we're just dropping a single old model but I'm excited all the same.

[Sception]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:56 PM, muse.desire said:

Oh, I see what I did wrong. I actually forgot about the endless spells, however there is one model not included in your list.

The marrowscroll harald! Seeing as this model was just released it seems unlikely to not be included in the new book. Though I might still be wrong of course. This is the first book to come out since the new dawnbringers came out so maybe it won't be included for some reason? But if it is it could mean we're just dropping a single old model but I'm excited all the same.

Oh ho!  You're completely right!  I did forget the herald, since he's not in the app.  Kind of surprising that he's not there, since he's been around for a couple months now.

That means between existing units and new we're actually one over on the total number of units, and I'm pretty sure the herald is sticking around since he's specifically mentioned in the new FEC lore article today.

So that means at least one unit is getting dropped or folded into another scroll.  Hard to say what I hope for most.  Sadly -1 scroll isn't enough to get rid of all three generic courtiers (I was hoping they'd be downgraded to unit champs so we could stop splitting boxes).  Likely options include:

1. folding Duke Crackmarrow into the Grymwatch

2. merging infantry Ghoul Kings and Archregents.

3. dropping just the generic ghoul courtier to be replaced by the herald, who can fill the 'ghoul courtier' roll while having a bespoke model and a more coherent identity.

EDIT: Battle report confirms they're not dropping the bone throne

Edited December 1, 2023 by Sception

[bonzai]

Some interesting Intel here.

It is interesting. We are very hero hammer dependant, so stats will be king here. I am cautiously optimistic, but it seems like it is going to be a tough balancing act to get right.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:15 AM, Sception said:

This is the bare minimum.

Honestly, I just wish 4e would do away with batch pricing.  Give units a minimum, a maximum (increased through reinforcement), and a price per model.

Please no, points per model going away is my favorite thing about list building in 10th edition 40k. I never want to go back in either game.

More on topic though, the new FEC look super cool. If I wasn't already heavily invested in Soulblight with a significant backlog of other projects, I'd definitely jump on that army box. As it is, it seems like it will be too close in playstyle to justify, but allies mean I might branch out over time.