AoS 2 - Legion of Sacrament Discussion

[march10k]

Going to try this list as soon as I build 6 hexwraiths, 1 dog, and the sweet new black coach:

 

Arkhan: Vile Transference

Mengine

Necro: wristbands, overwhelming dread

Necro: shroud, fading vigour

40 sword'n'board skittles

40 sword'n'board skittles

5 dogs

5 dogs

10 Hexwraiths

Coach

battalion

palisade

 

With two skellie hordes, I'm going to have to play board control and attrition, but the dogs and wraiths are fast enough to give me a little mobility, and the wraiths in particular are intended as recyclable cruise missiles.  I assume I'll be re-raising them twice a battle.  The palisade, of course, is for Arkhan.  Should help with not having the usual VLoZD distraction unit.

Edited September 16, 2018 by march10k

[Jai]

Just putting it out here for everyone - I've been running the following undefeated 1k list for the past 5 weeks or so in prep for an event (last weekend, which I took Best General for ?), so I thought I'd share it with anyone here who's interested in starting out with the faction.

Vampire Lord general, mastery of death, WoBG

Necromancer

40 spear skeletons

30 grimghast reapers

5 direwolves

1 CP

 

The list is pretty fiddly in terms of movements and such, so especially in a timed environment I recommend speeding up your moves and pile-ins. Luckily buffed grimghasts do so much damage that most people concede by turn 2 ?

[Undeadly]

Yo, whats happening my ghosts and ghouls? Undeadly coming back at ya with a new list for a 2000 ppint tournament coming up in November. This current lost is a transmutation of my prior one, which got hit with a price hike on the key battalion I was using. This is what I have so far:

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Fading Vigour (Deathmages)
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon(440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Units
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137

 

strategy wise, its pretty much the same as last time; VLoZD will use pinions to zoom up the board, use a gravesite to throw up the Grimghasts, use Direwolves to cap objectives early on while Skeletons march up behind the VLoZD, so as to help push back the enemy's own offensive units. Arkhan is there to ensure that spells go off and hit what they to, while throwing down some +2 dispells. OD necros to help neuter enemies that I choose to engage, Grimghasts are my follow up to VLoZD's attack. The VL to help buff and maybe chuck a spell or two, and the Mortis Engine can either help support the Skeletons, bomb the enemy, or give further magic buffs.

My major concerns are with the VLoZD's artifact, the Necessity of Arkhan without his battalion, and the inclusion of the VL.

 

For starters, I'm afraid that the VL won't be necessary; he lacks survivability, and yes, that +1 A is super good, but what exactly would I be fighting that requires that many attacks to deal with? And if it works out right, I doubt he'll be anywhere close to the Grimghasts. He's a 140 points that I'd much rather spend on a Black Knight sucicide unit I can throw out.

Secondly, Arkhan; Curse of Years got a rather mean nerf due to MW saves being able to cancel it out right, not to mention the nerfing of Arcane Bolt. Also, without his 3rd spell, he's only got 2 at most. I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better off using the points towards a Second VLoZD in LoB

 

[Ferrus65]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 5:19 AM, march10k said:

Going to try this list as soon as I build 6 hexwraiths, 1 dog, and the sweet new black coach:

 

Arkhan: Vile Transference

Mengine

Necro: wristbands, overwhelming dread

Necro: shroud, fading vigour

40 sword'n'board skittles

40 sword'n'board skittles

5 dogs

5 dogs

10 Hexwraiths

Coach

battalion

palisade

 

With two skellie hordes, I'm going to have to play board control and attrition, but the dogs and wraiths are fast enough to give me a little mobility, and the wraiths in particular are intended as recyclable cruise missiles.  I assume I'll be re-raising them twice a battle.  The palisade, of course, is for Arkhan.  Should help with not having the usual VLoZD distraction unit.

I like a lot your list, there are all models I love! May I ask you if the black coach choice is for the beautiful model, or if is there a specific tactic for it? And which  battalion did you choose?

[JCar09]

I want to share my list for the next tournament 2000 points without Realm items.

Legion Sacrament

General Arkhan

VLOZD with   Shroud of darknss

Necromancer

Necromancer

40 skeletons Spears

5 wolves

5wolves

6 Spirit hosts

20 Grimghast reapers

2 Cp   (1900)

[Honk]

7 hours ago, JCar09 said:

my list for the next tournament 

Looks solid, if you know how to use the chainrasp and the spirit hosts (I don’t XD), while having a plan for the 2CPs...

 

[JCar09]

On 9/18/2018 at 6:06 PM, Undeadly said:

Yo, whats happening my ghosts and ghouls? Undeadly coming back at ya with a new list for a 2000 ppint tournament coming up in November. This current lost is a transmutation of my prior one, which got hit with a price hike on the key battalion I was using. This is what I have so far:

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Fading Vigour (Deathmages)
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon(440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Units
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137

 

strategy wise, its pretty much the same as last time; VLoZD will use pinions to zoom up the board, use a gravesite to throw up the Grimghasts, use Direwolves to cap objectives early on while Skeletons march up behind the VLoZD, so as to help push back the enemy's own offensive units. Arkhan is there to ensure that spells go off and hit what they to, while throwing down some +2 dispells. OD necros to help neuter enemies that I choose to engage, Grimghasts are my follow up to VLoZD's attack. The VL to help buff and maybe chuck a spell or two, and the Mortis Engine can either help support the Skeletons, bomb the enemy, or give further magic buffs.

My major concerns are with the VLoZD's artifact, the Necessity of Arkhan without his battalion, and the inclusion of the VL.

 

For starters, I'm afraid that the VL won't be necessary; he lacks survivability, and yes, that +1 A is super good, but what exactly would I be fighting that requires that many attacks to deal with? And if it works out right, I doubt he'll be anywhere close to the Grimghasts. He's a 140 points that I'd much rather spend on a Black Knight sucicide unit I can throw out.

Secondly, Arkhan; Curse of Years got a rather mean nerf due to MW saves being able to cancel it out right, not to mention the nerfing of Arcane Bolt. Also, without his 3rd spell, he's only got 2 at most. I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better off using the points towards a Second VLoZD in LoB

 

i Think is better cut the Mortis engine and Vampire lord and add some summonable . The spirit hosts are perfect. The only doubt is Arkhan, he must be the general, and is paper for cannons or heavy shoot lists.  What u think?

[Marthen]

What are people’s thoughts on the Morris Engine and Battalion? Are they worth the points, or is it better to include more units? Here is a list I’m toying with that does not include either and uses what I have.

Arkhan%E2%80%99s%20Legion.pdf

Edited September 27, 2018 by Marthen

[Honk]

8 minutes ago, Marthen said:

Are they worth the points, or is it better to include more units?

What will you want to take for 130 points?

with the rules, the mortis engine will get targeted a lot trying to deny the extra spell. The necromancers both will fire at will, lore spell, van hels and basic...

So I think it’s pretty good, presenting extra targets, parallel to Arkhan and the vamp lord. Also the possibility to seriously downgrade several enemy units while buffing the own...

[Ravinsild]

My fastest Death list yet.... 

With Mastery of Death and the Deathmarch my Grave Guard with great blades, 40 skeletons and Black Knights will be automatically moving 7” in the hero phase if positioned properly. 

Turn 1 drop Cogs with a +3 to cast (+1 Black Disciples Legion trait, +1 corpse cart, +1 Mortis Engine.) This gives even more movement during the movement phase. Drop the Balewind and prepare to support from within my territory with two MSU skeleton squads and a grave guard with shields as body guards and home base campers. 

The main offensive force will move forward to claim objectives and slay the living. The Vampire and Mortis Engine are the Wight Kings bodyguard and escort there to keep him alive with heals and support. 

From the back enhanced Necromancer spells should cripple the enemy and buff my own troops with increased range and better casting (thx corpse cart). 

Focusing on speed and magic with this list. Plus constantly regenerating lost models as almost every single unit is SUMMONABLE and they’re part of the Battalion which means automatically 1 free model returned. That’s a free 2 wounds straight up for Black Knights. 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Mastery of Death  
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Azyrbane Standard  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
Necromancer (110)

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Great Wight Blades
10 x Black Knights (240)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Battalions
Deathmarch (160)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138
 

 

 

[Cursed]

6 hours ago, Marthen said:

What are people’s thoughts on the Morris Engine and Battalion? Are they worth the points, or is it better to include more units? Here is a list I’m toying with that does not include either and uses what I have.

Arkhan%E2%80%99s%20Legion.pdf

I've been praticing a lot a list who use the Lords of sacrament Battalion recently, because I want to use it in a tournament in 2 weeks. If you are playing with realm rules (my next tournament will use them), the battalion is awesome! For 130pts, I get 3 more cast per turn, 1 more CP (I'm regularly using 3-4 CP on Arkhan's command ability on the first 2 turns so this is a boon), 1 more artefact and lower drop count for my list!

 

With all the spells available with the realms this gives me a lot of options and I really fell like an all powered evil wizard during my hero phase! (Arkhan with +4 to cast really help this feeling! ) Last game I played, we were on the realm of Fire and I boosted 20 Grimghast with Van Hels, Inferno blades (+1 dmg) and stoke rage (+1 wound and charge) and I can assure you this was a nightmare for my Stormcast Opponent!  They destroyed 3 vanguard palladors, 5 evocators and put a few wounds on a lord celestant on dracoth in one combat phase! Also in addition to these 3 spells on the grimghast, I was able to cast prismatic palisade to protect myself from his range units, cast incadescent form (-1 to hit) on Arkhan and cast curse of years on a liberator unit! If I wanted to do the same thing it would have costed me 3 more necromancers (200 more points if we remove the battalion cost)

 

The biggest problem of the battalion is that everything has to stay close form one another. So you have to play it like a big deathstar! Throw it in the middle of the board and start bombarding key ennemy units with spells! when you know you have the advantages, you can start splitting the necros from the mortis to help cap objectives. (around turn 3) My turn 1 and 2 usually looks like that :

turn 1

use wolves as screens or flank objectives holder / use Arkhan's command ability 2 times / throw seven spells in the ennemy face / move the blob near the center (2x 40 skeletons are protecting the battalion)

Turn 2

use Arkhan's command ability 1 time / throw another set of 7 spells (mix of offensive/defensive one depending of the situation/realm) / start to expand board coverage with skelies / grimghast are my heavy hitting troops so they are preparing for a good charge agaisnt a juicy target (with buff if possible)

 

So In conclusion, if you are playing with the realms spells, the battalion is really worth it and really fun to play. Without all the extra spells, the battalion is a lot less strong and I think taking another vampire lord/necro could be a better choice. It also depends on how many spells/endless spells you want to cast each turn.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Cursed

[Honk]

5 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

constantly regenerating lost models

They do have to stay within 12“/9“ of your wightking if they want to move/regen... if he‘s gone/far away/only close at heart nothing happens.

Maybe combine the gg to a big blender, but who knows.

 

but the list looks great, try it, tweak it, crush with it...

[Ravinsild]

1 minute ago, Honk said:

They do have to stay within 12“/9“ of your wightking if they want to move/regen... if he‘s gone/far away/only close at heart nothing happens.

Maybe combine the gg to a big blender, but who knows.

 

but the list looks great, try it, tweak it, crush with it...

The main problem is that I built 10 with 1h sword and shield and 10 with 2-handed weapons haha. 

[Honk]

8 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

The main problem is that I built

Pffft... whatever is up front counts. Clear declaration on the army rooster... wouldn’t concern myself too much

[malkalen]

Hi,

I'm looking at branching into death and sacrament appealed to me. Was wondering if you had any feedback on the following list. From reading some of the thread I am aware that the batallion isn't the most popular choice but I wanted to have a crack at it anyways

Allegiance: Death
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
20 x Grave Guard (320)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
Mortis Engine (180)
Lords of Sacrament (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148
 

[Honk]

10 hours ago, malkalen said:

Was wondering if you had any feedback on the following list.

 

10 hours ago, malkalen said:

I am aware that the batallion isn't the most popular choice but I wanted to have a crack at it anyways

Don’t let the internet tell you what to do...

list is pretty straight forward and basic for the los battalion, so the only problem is doing it right against your opponent. Some things just cannot be solved in paper, if your opponent shows up with plaqueclaws or decimators... your hordes will suffer. But that’s what DI and gravesites are for.

 

[Cursed]

13 hours ago, malkalen said:

Hi,

I'm looking at branching into death and sacrament appealed to me. Was wondering if you had any feedback on the following list. From reading some of the thread I am aware that the batallion isn't the most popular choice but I wanted to have a crack at it anyways

Allegiance: Death
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
20 x Grave Guard (320)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
Mortis Engine (180)
Lords of Sacrament (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148
 

I used the battalion in a tournament a few weeks ago and depending of the match-ups it can be brutal (ironjaws/stormcasts) every army with few wounds and no protection against MW in fact.

 

But against a mixed order gunline Arkhan and the mortis just got sniped  and against a horde of nurgle, I was not able to put enough MW to balance is healing and 5+ fnp!

 

My list had grimghast instead of grave guards, 2 blocks of skellies instead of chainrasps and a few endless spells (the spellportal/soul harvest combo is really brutal! I manage to do 2d3 MW on every units in an ironjaws army turn 1!)

 

So the battalion is really fun to play with realms spells! you have lots of choice and can cast an absurd amount of spells! But against armies with good MW protection or long range gunlines you're gonna struggle a lot!

Edited October 13, 2018 by Cursed

[warhammernerd]

On 9/27/2018 at 8:07 PM, Cursed said:

I've been praticing a lot a list who use the Lords of sacrament Battalion recently, because I want to use it in a tournament in 2 weeks. If you are playing with realm rules (my next tournament will use them), the battalion is awesome! For 130pts, I get 3 more cast per turn, 1 more CP (I'm regularly using 3-4 CP on Arkhan's command ability on the first 2 turns so this is a boon), 1 more artefact and lower drop count for my list!

 

With all the spells available with the realms this gives me a lot of options and I really fell like an all powered evil wizard during my hero phase! (Arkhan with +4 to cast really help this feeling! ) Last game I played, we were on the realm of Fire and I boosted 20 Grimghast with Van Hels, Inferno blades (+1 dmg) and stoke rage (+1 wound and charge) and I can assure you this was a nightmare for my Stormcast Opponent!  They destroyed 3 vanguard palladors, 5 evocators and put a few wounds on a lord celestant on dracoth in one combat phase! Also in addition to these 3 spells on the grimghast, I was able to cast prismatic palisade to protect myself from his range units, cast incadescent form (-1 to hit) on Arkhan and cast curse of years on a liberator unit! If I wanted to do the same thing it would have costed me 3 more necromancers (200 more points if we remove the battalion cost)

 

The biggest problem of the battalion is that everything has to stay close form one another. So you have to play it like a big deathstar! Throw it in the middle of the board and start bombarding key ennemy units with spells! when you know you have the advantages, you can start splitting the necros from the mortis to help cap objectives. (around turn 3) My turn 1 and 2 usually looks like that :

turn 1

use wolves as screens or flank objectives holder / use Arkhan's command ability 2 times / throw seven spells in the ennemy face / move the blob near the center (2x 40 skeletons are protecting the battalion)

Turn 2

use Arkhan's command ability 1 time / throw another set of 7 spells (mix of offensive/defensive one depending of the situation/realm) / start to expand board coverage with skelies / grimghast are my heavy hitting troops so they are preparing for a good charge agaisnt a juicy target (with buff if possible)

 

So In conclusion, if you are playing with the realms spells, the battalion is really worth it and really fun to play. Without all the extra spells, the battalion is a lot less strong and I think taking another vampire lord/necro could be a better choice. It also depends on how many spells/endless spells you want to cast each turn.

Are you sure you can stack first of the mortachs ability?

[Cursed]

4 hours ago, warhammernerd said:

Are you sure you can stack first of the mortachs ability?

yes! you can stack any command ability if it's not written you can't. (like the blood feast command ability in the FAQ) You can find it in the core rules.

[Olmdebil]

How does fits grimgast Reapers or chainwrasp into an legion of sacrament list? Cant find them in my LON book? 

[Cursed]

1 hour ago, Olmdebil said:

How does fits grimgast Reapers or chainwrasp into an legion of sacrament list? Cant find them in my LON book? 

In the Legion of Nagash errata FAQ they have been given the Legions keyword

[Ravinsild]

How does unbinding spells work? Someone told me it was dice face value vs dice face value, and pluses to casting only help increase your odds of getting the spell off if you roll low, but unbinding pluses add to your face value to help you unbind better. 

 

[Honk]

5 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

How does unbinding spells work

Opponent rolls to cast, modifiers are applied(fe corpse cart), „to cast“ result is determined, if it is high enough, the spell succeeds

when one of your wizzards is in range s/he can try to unbind the spell... roll two dice, add modifier and check, if result is higher than the to cast result, spell gets denied ? 

 

not to be confused with post-casting dispelling of endless spells. Cast/unbind as above, for dispelling an endless spell you use a normal cast attempt and try to beat the casting roll. With modifiers... that’s why some ES are not that good for roadblocking

[Cursed]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

Opponent rolls to cast, modifiers are applied(fe corpse cart), „to cast“ result is determined, if it is high enough, the spell succeeds

when one of your wizzards is in range s/he can try to unbind the spell... roll two dice, add modifier and check, if result is higher than the to cast result, spell gets denied ? 

 

not to be confused with post-casting dispelling of endless spells. Cast/unbind as above, for dispelling an endless spell you use a normal cast attempt and try to beat the casting roll. With modifiers... that’s why some ES are not that good for roadblocking

there's no modifier to unbind endless spells because it's not the same action. Exemple arkhan gets +2 to ''unbind'' a spell but if he wants to remove an already casted ES, he doesn't unbind it, he dispel it. So no bonus since it's not the same action. Pretty much all bonus I know of don't apply if you want to remove an endless spell.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Cursed

[Ravinsild]

5 hours ago, Honk said:

Opponent rolls to cast, modifiers are applied(fe corpse cart), „to cast“ result is determined, if it is high enough, the spell succeeds

when one of your wizzards is in range s/he can try to unbind the spell... roll two dice, add modifier and check, if result is higher than the to cast result, spell gets denied ? 

 

not to be confused with post-casting dispelling of endless spells. Cast/unbind as above, for dispelling an endless spell you use a normal cast attempt and try to beat the casting roll. With modifiers... that’s why some ES are not that good for roadblocking

So it’s always versus end result? 

For example: I’m Arkhan, I’m casting Curse of Years. I’m within 12” of my Mortis Engine and within 18” of my Corpse Cart. In total I have +4 to my casting. I roll a natural 9 on the dice bringing my final result to 13. 

Even if your unbinding roll is 10 on the dice my spell goes through? 

In fact, there’s literally no possible way to unbind it unless you happen to be a Dwarf Runepriest (who also have +2 to unbind) and roll a natural 12 to exceed me with a 14, correct?