AoS 2 - Hosts of Slaanesh Discussion

[Poryague]

51 minutes ago, carnith said:

Then maybe I missed something. Cause I could've sworn they did something wrong with dp generation, but if not, then I'm glad it worked as well as it did. Vito did forget to generation Loci during the enemy charge phase, and I felt they didn't utilize the Eptiome well enough, though Vito's ability to roll a 6 nearly every time with the claws was crazy.

Missed oppurtunities by not using the locus when he could of. So when he had 3 units on him by nocking one out and depending on which the opponent chose to activate he may have reduced the incoming damage. Also he forgot to roll it when the doombull charged in could of denied the beastlord from attacking. Doombull probably would of failed 1 of its hits and keeper may have lived. For one more attack. Probably could of been more agressive with epitome. Maybe dispell the mirror and resummon it to try rolling against the hero's one more time.

[themortalgod]

4 hours ago, firebat said:

This is why for the most part I just base everything on the smallest I can do (or what still works for WHFB pretty much) and then use adapters to change the base size.

adapters?

[Enoby]

3 hours ago, Unit1126PLL said:

*snip*

Thanks for the report how would you say the army plays compared to before? 

[Colonel Cabbage]

On 4/29/2019 at 4:55 PM, Hebroseph said:

 

I was talking about units that could be in a Slaanesh army

[Colonel Cabbage]

5 hours ago, carnith said:

Then maybe I missed something. Cause I could've sworn they did something wrong with dp generation, but if not, then I'm glad it worked as well as it did. Vito did forget to generation Loci during the enemy charge phase, and I felt they didn't utilize the Eptiome well enough, though Vito's ability to roll a 6 nearly every time with the claws was crazy.

There were loads of mistakes in this:
Cacophonic Choir was done wrong. They did it as D3 MW per point of bravery to 1 unit only. Think they mixed it with another spell.

They didn't know Daemonettes could re-roll charges, and spent CPs on it.

They got the range for the Herdstone Shard wrong. its wholly within 6", not within 6". This is the way the item SHOULD work, but it doesn't, so its actually useless because you can almost never get Bullgors wholly within 6".

Beastlord can re-roll hits of 1s and ALL wound rolls vs heroes, so he should have done WAY more damage to the keeper.

They didn't seem to realise that the KoS was a double caster.

They forgot that the KoS does MWs of wounds of 6.

 

There are probably more, but whatever, I'm not trying to rag on them. it was fun to watch, but more mistakes than normal.

[Colonel Cabbage]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:20 PM, themortalgod said:

You know, point for point, ungors are actually pretty nasty too in Slaanesh. Take unit with spears. 200pts buys you 40wounds worth of models that have 2" range and a 25mm base. Which means in most cases all 40 get to attack. Hitting on 5+ isn't great but re-rolling 1s and 2s means lots of opportunity to re-roll into 6s. 

On average that is going to force ~18 saves. Pretty damn good for a measly 200pts and 5pts per wound with a 5+ save in close combat is really nice.  Think about this army:

Depraved Drove - 150pts

Keeper of Secrets - 360pts

Shaggoth - 180pts

Great Bray Shaman - 100pts

Syll'Eske - 200pts  

40x Ungors - 200pts

40x Ungors - 200pts

40x Ungors - 200pts

40x Ungors - 200pts

40x Ungors - 200pts

Total: 1990pts. 

 

Good luck killing all that considering they are all immune to battleshock.  Army is only 3 drops too.   

 

 

I'd drop 2 of those Ungors units for a 6 pack of bulls and a Beastlord. 6 bulls with re-rolls are a real nutcracker unit.

[firebat]

6 hours ago, themortalgod said:

adapters?

Yeah. I have my cavalry mounted on 25x50mm oval bases with magnets in the base and they fit into bigger bases. You can get them in a few places in MDF online although I make and print my own these days. Got a big 100mm base being printed at the moment for my metal KoS to get lost on since I can't afford a new one right now.

[CB42]

5 hours ago, Enoby said:

Thanks for the report how would you say the army plays compared to before? 

Compared to before, the Locus of Diversion is insanely strong. Depravity Generation seems much faster even when not fighting Bullgors. The Keeper of Secrets with two activations is super swingy - it can be insanely good, but missing one attack drops its damage output a bunch, while one 6 to hit suddenly crushes someone with extra impaling claws. It’s worse than the old Exalted was, but the 2+ Locus without having to take a command trait (devotee of torment) to fight before enemies is huge.

[Carnith]

I think getting our keepers to be as consistent as possible is what will help, or as much protection. I know the reroll if no friendly models with 6” is strong but the keeper is not that durable and if multi charged, then locus doesn’t matter too much against our heroes if two choppy units come for our heroes head. The mwg illustrated this that even if they did locus the beastlord and 2 bull groups, one was already swingy enough that it was taking damage right away. I’d at least run models near by that can take the hits. If those daemonettes were near they would have likely helped soaked up a charge that the locus could have been placed elsewhere (granted they forgot to reapply locus).

I know that the guys at mwg didn’t like pretenders for the 1 hero battalion and I know they see it as cp generation, but even taking it in pretenders is a cheap way to get 2 artifacts and a starting cp for what is essentially 70 points for another artifact and if you wanted to run heavy on the troops you aren’t having to run more heroes. 

Mira a bit of a flexibility that I wanna see how it pans out. All the battalions are super useful looking and are fun and flavorful with strong abilities. Daemonettes being mini keepers with wound of 6 being mortals will be strong to just overwhelm strong units. 

[Unit1126PLL]

1 minute ago, carnith said:

I think getting our keepers to be as consistent as possible is what will help, or as much protection. I know the reroll if no friendly models with 6” is strong but the keeper is not that durable and if multi charged, then locus doesn’t matter too much against our heroes if two choppy units come for our heroes head. The mwg illustrated this that even if they did locus the beastlord and 2 bull groups, one was already swingy enough that it was taking damage right away. I’d at least run models near by that can take the hits. If those daemonettes were near they would have likely helped soaked up a charge that the locus could have been placed elsewhere (granted they forgot to reapply locus).

I know that the guys at mwg didn’t like pretenders for the 1 hero battalion and I know they see it as cp generation, but even taking it in pretenders is a cheap way to get 2 artifacts and a starting cp for what is essentially 70 points for another artifact and if you wanted to run heavy on the troops you aren’t having to run more heroes. 

Mira a bit of a flexibility that I wanna see how it pans out. All the battalions are super useful looking and are fun and flavorful with strong abilities. Daemonettes being mini keepers with wound of 6 being mortals will be strong to just overwhelm strong units. 

I want Pretenders to be good, honestly. I used to run Pretenders when my Exalted Keeper was on the field.

Honestly, though, after 2 games, I gotta love Invaders. You can still pick one general if you want, so they stay within 12" of each-other. That seems like a silly idea -after all, you're basically giving up the allegiance trait - but honestly, the Pretenders allegiance trait isn't much better. I look at the command traits for pretenders and I'm like "2 is cool, but ..." and I definitely think Invaders have the best relics. Sliverslash is cool, but that's about it for Pretenders.

Meanwhile, I can't get enough of the Invaders stuff. Best of the Best combos well with Icon of Infinite Excess, which can then be thrown into the fane. Skintaker lets you replicate the effects of the Sinoustrous Hand, either doubling the number of wounds healed or allowing you to give your General a whip or ritual knife without losing healing. Delusions if Infallibility makes your general more durable than any Pretender. Rod of Misrule gets you a load of command points, and combos much better with the Supreme Sybarites battalion, which for pretenders is basically a joke. Icon of Infinite Excess is ****** awesome for obvious reasons. Beguiling Gem gives you higher durability than the Monarch of Lies pretender command trait.

Ironically, the best argument I can see for pretenders is the re-rolling 1s on giganto blobs of Daemonettes, which is neato, but hardly what I was looking for when I picked the "one strong general" allegiance. I feel like you can make one strong general stronger in the Invaders allegiance with the cool artefacts and command traits, and the ability to posse up with other Keepers of Secrets and generate a TON more command points for the sweet-sweet double attacking is a godsend. I struggled to attack twice often in my Pretenders game, while I could attack twice with almost every single keeper in my Invaders game. The damage output earned from that alone far exceeds anything Pretenders can output.

I am thinking my Exalted Keeper (turned regular-keeper-with-pretenders-buffs) will stay at home and send out her Handmaidens to attack other places in her name (using the Invaders rules).

[Poryague]

26 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

I want Pretenders to be good, honestly. I used to run Pretenders when my Exalted Keeper was on the field.

Honestly, though, after 2 games, I gotta love Invaders. You can still pick one general if you want, so they stay within 12" of each-other. That seems like a silly idea -after all, you're basically giving up the allegiance trait - but honestly, the Pretenders allegiance trait isn't much better. I look at the command traits for pretenders and I'm like "2 is cool, but ..." and I definitely think Invaders have the best relics. Sliverslash is cool, but that's about it for Pretenders.

Meanwhile, I can't get enough of the Invaders stuff. Best of the Best combos well with Icon of Infinite Excess, which can then be thrown into the fane. Skintaker lets you replicate the effects of the Sinoustrous Hand, either doubling the number of wounds healed or allowing you to give your General a whip or ritual knife without losing healing. Delusions if Infallibility makes your general more durable than any Pretender. Rod of Misrule gets you a load of command points, and combos much better with the Supreme Sybarites battalion, which for pretenders is basically a joke. Icon of Infinite Excess is ****** awesome for obvious reasons. Beguiling Gem gives you higher durability than the Monarch of Lies pretender command trait.

Ironically, the best argument I can see for pretenders is the re-rolling 1s on giganto blobs of Daemonettes, which is neato, but hardly what I was looking for when I picked the "one strong general" allegiance. I feel like you can make one strong general stronger in the Invaders allegiance with the cool artefacts and command traits, and the ability to posse up with other Keepers of Secrets and generate a TON more command points for the sweet-sweet double attacking is a godsend. I struggled to attack twice often in my Pretenders game, while I could attack twice with almost every single keeper in my Invaders game. The damage output earned from that alone far exceeds anything Pretenders can output.

I am thinking my Exalted Keeper (turned regular-keeper-with-pretenders-buffs) will stay at home and send out her Handmaidens to attack other places in her name (using the Invaders rules).

Invaders seems to offer a bit more flexibility and has I think the highest potential for cp. The army is hungry for cp. A keeper with a 30 block of daemonettes escort with proper positioning will activate daemonettes twice then want the keeper to activate twice. So having cp to activate double pile in every turn if possible with the locus to help maximize damage and survive. You may want to run daemonettes alot to capitalize on movement so if you dont get the 6 run you cp it. Being able to regaulary run them 6in takes their average threat range from 16in to 19in this is not counting the reroll charge which may bumb it up couple inches. You may need cp to reroll charges for hero's to get them into the combat you want. 

The army utilize combination of speed and offense as the best defense. Along with summoning. Pretender is fun if you can get keeper in choice combat at full health. It is fun just blasting your opponent with over 50 wounds worth of damge in combat.  It does seem that strongest alone may lead to mistakes of not screening and being cocky with the keeper to maximize offense. You have to be way more sensitive to range in order to get the most out of keeper. In the dark artisan game and miniwargaming they kinda sacrificed the keeper to maximize it for strongest alone. This probably caused it to die prematurely. Then again new book new toys. The urge to play with shiny may overide better judgment.

[Unit1126PLL]

Perhaps.

I think Invaders is the way ahead, though. Even if you're me and pick only one General so you can romp around in a posse of spook, the Invaders allegiance is pretty good. I'd probably run the Supreme Sybarites battalion with 5 Heroes (an Enrapturess, a Viceleader, 3 KOS), the Fane, and 2x20 Daemonettes with 1x5 Hellstriders for running out to poke objectives. That gives you 2 Artefacts (Icon of Infinite Excess and Rod of Misrule), a command ability on a keeper (probably Skintaker for durability), and a buttload of wizards. It also gives you the Faneratpuress combo for generating auto-DP, 40 Daemonettes as a very punchy screen, loads of CP, and a powerful one-shot Artefact to throw in the fane if you want.

[whispersofblood]

I think I said invaders would be the best host a few pages back. For the reasons stated by @Unit1126PLL there, but also just for the sole reason that you generate DP in your hero phase, for doing nothing that you can use on the same turn. 

[Poryague]

The enrapturess will be pretty useful we have several armies with heros who are powerful force multipliers. That will be screened so draging them into combat may be a bit hard so just shooting them off the board could be good. as well as they may target the enrapturess so they dont lose those hero's.  Having multiple threats that need to be removed for different reason force decisions on the enemy the more dofficult decisions you can force the more likely they make a mistake

[Unit1126PLL]

8 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

I think I said invaders would be the best host a few pages back. For the reasons stated by @Unit1126PLL there, but also just for the sole reason that you generate DP in your hero phase, for doing nothing that you can use on the same turn. 

That literally never came up in my Invaders game. I think this is too territory dependent. The mission we played was one with a super weird deployment - Total Conquest, I think. A large portion of the battlefield wasn't anyone's territory, so I never generated any Depravity from the Allegiance Ability at all - at least not until after I'd already utterly annihilated anything of value with the posse of keepers.

Oh, and one reason to run the posse of keepers instead of just 1 is you can shut down 3 units attacking your General, not just one. One question that did come up:
Can  you tempt a Hero 3 times if you have 3 Keepers? Do they take D3 mortal wounds each time they decline? If they accept all of them, would you get 3 attempts at the 4+ to kill them at the start of the next combat phase?

 

6 minutes ago, Poryague said:

The enrapturess will be pretty useful we have several armies with heros who are powerful force multipliers. That will be screened so draging them into combat may be a bit hard so just shooting them off the board could be good. as well as they may target the enrapturess so they dont lose those hero's.  Having multiple threats that need to be removed for different reason force decisions on the enemy the more dofficult decisions you can force the more likely they make a mistake

In my game against the Seraphon, I found the "Hysterical Frenzy" spell cast by one of my Keepers to be utterly invaluable for this. It essentially evaporated ~10-15 skinks each hero phase if I fired it at a 30 man unit.

And yes, the Enrapturess was good. Not much chance to shut down Magic (seraphon put their spells into summoning typically) and her shooting completely whiffed in the Pretenders game I used her in, but even literally doing nothing else she gave me 6 Depravity just by existing next to the Fane for 3 turns. She also provided a mid-ish field anchor for my summoning as I cycled keepers out. (lol).

[Poryague]

5 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

That literally never came up in my Invaders game. I think this is too territory dependent. The mission we played was one with a super weird deployment - Total Conquest, I think. A large portion of the battlefield wasn't anyone's territory, so I never generated any Depravity from the Allegiance Ability at all - at least not until after I'd already utterly annihilated anything of value with the posse of keepers.

Oh, and one reason to run the posse of keepers instead of just 1 is you can shut down 3 units attacking your General, not just one.

 

In my game against the Seraphon, I found the "Hysterical Frenzy" spell cast by one of my Keepers to be utterly invaluable for this. It essentially evaporated ~10-15 skinks each hero phase if I fired it at a 30 man unit.

And yes, the Enrapturess was good. Not much chance to shut down Magic (seraphon put their spells into summoning typically) and her shooting completely whiffed in the Pretenders game I used her in, but even literally doing nothing else she gave me 6 Depravity just by existing next to the Fane for 3 turns.

Did you get chance to test the healing spells or the spell that makes dp? If so were they useful?

[Unit1126PLL]

9 minutes ago, Poryague said:

Did you get chance to test the healing spells or the spell that makes dp? If so were they useful?

I did. 3 Keepers is a load of spells.

The spell that makes DP (Song of Secrets) was denied or failed to go off literally every time I cast it. I guess my Keepers of Secrets don't actually have that many to keep.

The healing spells are hilarious. I got a 10+ to cast on Progeny of Damnation both times I tried it (that's the keeper level one that heals d6 wounds) and the lesser one, Born of Damnation, once (for d3). Between the Sinoustrous Hand and the spells, I felt like all my -1's to hit from pre-Battletome were completely replaced with healing; I ended up rather easily repairing damage I would've had to avoid before the tome.

As for how Keepers play now: they feel a lot sturdier. 14 wounds rather than 10 is a massive difference, and I am far more comfortable throwing them under the bus, because there's a not-insignificant chance that between Locus of Disruption, Euphoric Killers, and Delicate Precision that the Keeper will take the bus, slice it to ribbons, and then devour the passenger's souls. They're very swingy, but unlike the old 10-wound keeper, I feel much less protective of them. Similarly, with how cheap they are to summon (and how cheap they are points wise) compared to the old EKoS, I feel like being far more risky than I would with an old Exalted Keeper, which gives them a chance to flop horribly if they roll badly, or a chance to do wondrous, almost terrifying amounts of damage if they roll well.

I had a full health Keeper do 6 wounds to an Engine of the Gods in the same turn a 2-wound Keeper completely annihilated one without double attacking. They're incredibly swingy, but with how cheap they are to summon that's mostly the opponent's problem. In the Seraphon game, I would have cycled in 3 additional keepers by Turn 4 while one of my original 3 would've been alive still. That, plus the potential damage output if they swing well, terrified my opponent into giving up a game that they actually probably would've won, in honesty.

[Kramer]

Tonight the twitch game is hedonites bs Khorne 

[Carnith]

Should be quite interesting to see. I wanna see them use shalaxi and how she does. 

[Unit1126PLL]

4 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Tonight the twitch game is hedonites bs Khorne 

Tonight UK time you mean. I am at work. Sad to miss it live (send help).

[Hebroseph]

7 hours ago, Colonel Cabbage said:

*SNIP*

There are probably more, but whatever, I'm not trying to rag on them. it was fun to watch, but more mistakes than normal.

I've noticed this as a trend as more channels try and push out content on Battletomes and Codex that are not out yet and with armies they are not familiar with. 

[Carnith]

The thing I give mwg is that they play multiple games and multiple armies within systems. And at times they get confused with older rules for those armies. Not everyone has the time to internalize all of the new mechanics immediately, especially if they have a job that doesn’t give them much free time.

[SwampHeart]

Played my first game with the new book last night, my list was:

Spoiler

Keeper of Secrets - Thermal Rider Cloak, Speed-Chaser, Sinistrous Hand
Contorted Epitome
Herald on Seeker Chariot
Chaos Sorcerer on Steed
Great Bray Shaman*
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth* - (I forget the artifact name but once per game you generate 1 CP and ignore battle shock for friendly units wholly within 18")
40x Ungors w/Spears*
20x Ungors w/Hand Weapons*
10x Ungors*
30x Bestigors*

5 Drops, 49 Character Wounds, 149 Total Wounds

Played against my club mate's Fyreslayers (he had the big Hearthguard Berzerker death star type build) and we played Total Commitment. This was my first time playing with Slaanesh (previously played BoC). I won't go in to a turn by turn but the general gist was:

-high speed allowed me to dictate the fights and stay away from his deathstar
- I was able to pick on his vulkites for early DP as well as feeding his deathstar characters to slow it down so I was able to quickly generate DP and summon more roadblocks for the HBs
-My first summon of the game was an Enrapturess off the Fane which I think is a good play generally speaking
-Overall I was able to out score my opponent by selecting engagements and using my bodies to contain him while I took the scoring lead
-I really enjoyed playing the army, it felt good overall (this was my first game with Slaanesh period, I'm primarily a BoC player).
-Exploding 6s is really good 
-Being able to give your KoS re-roll 1s to hit, to wound, and to save on the Keeper is fantastic and I think makes the Sorcerer an auto include for me

[Stepador]

I haven't really seen any discussion on fiends. They still solid? I really like the models and they seem to be pretty strong (especially if the batallion from W&R is still valid)

[Enoby]

Just now, Stepador said:

I haven't really seen any discussion on fiends. They still solid? I really like the models and they seem to be pretty strong (especially if the batallion from W&R is still valid)

I think a lot of people see the 30 points increase as unjustified, but I think it's fine considering the exploding 6s. Probably not as solid as before, but nowhere near a bad choice.