CB42

I’m doing a chaos-themed City - I’ve swapped the head on my Griffon with a Lord of Change head, and I’m using a lot of chaos models for parts. I’m in the process of converting chaos Chariots to be my Scourgerunner Chariots.

I mostly ran Depraved Drove last year - I’ve never been big on DP generation, I’ve always been about those exploding 6s leading to some truly absurd numbers of saves. I’m just frustrated that the warshrine battalion is Syll Host locked because I’d much rather run Godseekers. Chaos lord is cool, I just couldn’t make room for him. I wanted redundancy on the reroll hits / wounds, and so adding him meant dropping from 3 marauders to 2 or dropping the keeper or Epitome, and I felt all three were core to the list.

This seems like the type of obvious oversight by GW that some TOs say obviously do the thing that is obvious and others say well it’s technically legal. If you’re planning on bringing it to a tournament, I’d ask the TO how they’d rule it in advance - 30 or 45 for soulfeaster.

Yeah, I was thinking something like Syll Host Keeper (with thermal) Epitome 3x40 marauders Sorc Lord warshrine Bridge warshrinebattalion. Gives you 4 primary threats of which 2 can have long range on any turn, and 124 bodies holds objectives good. And marauders with reroll saves will be super tanky vs no rend and somewhat tanky vs rend -1.

Have you experimented with marauders? With reroll hits and wounds from a chaos Sorc lord or warshrine, and triple exploding 6s, they force 2 saves per model at -1 rend. Need to kill a bloodthirster? Get 10-15 marauders in on the thirster and pile the other 25 into the next 2 units. 81 saves at -1 kills 30 Hagg narr witch aelves with buckler and blessing, or 14 Hearthguard Berzerkers with a nearby battlesmith. It’s like 30 Slaaneshtigors on the charge plus 33% extra damage just for fun, except you aren’t reliant on the run roll in the movement phase or the charge roll when you’re already committed - you can check your buffs and bridge in the hero phase and decide if you’re going in or if you don’t want to if you fail a spell cast. I’m thinking of running Slaarauders with Sorc lord, warshrine, Epitome, and Soulscream Bridge. In Godseekers, they literally can’t fail a charge from deepstrike, and that gives them an effective 25” guaranteed charge radius if the spell goes off.

I think you two are basically saying the same thing from different directions. For me, I first identify the subset “what factions/builds/lists are good enough for me to win a tournament with” and then I’ll assemble an army from that subset that I think would be interesting to build and paint and play. A casual player or hobbyist would probably say I’m just doing it to win because I’m restricting myself to certain choices that can win it all; other competitive players would see that sometimes I’m only playing the third or fourth best army at the moment, or a weird nonmeta take that somehow works on the best army, and agree that I’m doing lists and armies I like rather than just purely whatever is the very best.

Lol. When Cities is one of the only armies that can beat bonereapers. And when Cities just absolutely curb stomps Mawtribes. Until the release of Bonereapers, I was expecting Cities to become the new meta - I think it's S tier. It shoots Slaanesh and Khorne off the board. It outranges Skaven shooting and can gyrocopter plague monks off the board. It kills the Harvester and then can whittle down bonereaper mortek bricks. It can pop the general in a Daughters of Khaine hagg narr army. Hyperefficient shooting like Cities has breaks Age of Sigmar just as bad as stuff like reroll 3+ saves, and the fact that people like you think that Cities is so bad that it's a country mile behind new releases like Mawtribes.... man, I don't even know what to say, Icegoat. I don't even know what to say.

The best part about your post about "CoS won a major basically the first time it was playable" is that I thought you were talking about a different tournament - it also 5-0'd DaBoyz in the northeast US and placed 2nd after a FEC list. List was arkanaut / EG / scourgerunner Tempest's Eye and I lost to it with my Syll'Esskan Host and oh man is that TE list hard to play against. Also, that guy about "no competitive player is switching to CoS" is super out of touch. And I'm saying that as a competitive player who just switched to CoS from hedonites of slaanesh and just placed 3rd at a tournament with CoS. And I'm playing a completely different TE list than the one James was running at DaBoyz - I'm using scourgerunners, griffon, pistoliers, and gyrocopters. Both of which are completely different from the Hallowheart list that won B+G.

My goats style involves Depraved Drove with 30 Bestigors, 20 Seekers, 60 Ungors, a Keeper, an epitome, a great bray shaman, and Cogs. But you can swap out 20 Seekers and put in whatever you want - another 30 Bestigors, or 3 Doom Bulls and the Masque, or another Keeper and 10 Bestigors, or 9 Bullgors, etc. Alternately, if you’re looking for less of a tournament competition build, Doom Bulls are great from a # of wounds to points perspective, and generate a lot of depravity when they die. I sometimes play Depraved Drove casually with friends with no keepers and instead 4 doombulls, 2 Ghorgons, 6 Bullgors, and some mix of Bestigors and Ungors. It’s pretty bad but it’s great fun for playing against friends who don’t have tournament lists and aren’t super familiar with the game.

The Fyreslayers White Dwarf has points but is still not matched play legal because one of the heroes was listed with points but no battle role, which invalidated the whole thing. And any White Dwarfs with points from before the GHB 2019 are not matched play legal, so if this is matched play legal it is only legal until the next time a GHB or similar announces that stuff not in the GHB is invalidated. So I'd say it looks like it's probably legal to use until June 2020, unless GW switches to a different points update schedule and invalidates things in December rather than in June. Adding Palisades means losing units and I'd rather keep the Epitome and Hellstrider over the endless spells you mentioned. In my experience, unless Syll'esske were to be physically touching the center of the palisades, it's too easy for shooting units to move to get LOS. And even then, Syll's whip is so long that there's a non-zero chance that shooting units will be able to get LOS anyways on the tip of the whip, no matter how you position Syll'Esske.

Ulgu, SyllEsske host. Keeper, Keeper, Shalaxi, Syll’Esske, Epitome, Hellstrider x 4, Seeker Cavalcade. Give one Keeper Doppelgänger Cloak, give the Epitome Sword of Judgment. Start with 2+D3 cp turn 1 and generate infinite depravity as you push forward. You can give up a command trait in exchange for double depravity.

Man, I hope this doesn’t get treated as legal for tournaments. It’s just so absurdly strong that I’d feel obligated to switch to it for tournaments, if only to keep up with the power creep of other Slaanesh players doing the same.

Running 12 in groups of 3 costs as much as running 10 in groups of 1, and dramatically reduced your drops. Hurricanum also means that the +1 to hit is often unnecessary. But the cost decrease from running in groups of 3 is worth it on its own. Portal+Spray, cast by Sorceresses from outside unbind range, gets the spell off through the portal 70% of the time. 70% is a damn good success rate for something that is game changing. You think it’s a trap army; I think that I can win a tournament with Anvilgard. I’ve already put my money where my mouth is and purchased 2000 points of new stuff. But rest assured, I’m not trying to lead anyone astray - I honestly, truly believe that I can build an anvilgard list that just counters most of what people bring to tournaments and is efficient enough to table the ones it doesn’t hard counter.

I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith when you keep saying this. You can’t say “except for the synergies the army has, the army had no synergies” and expect to be taken seriously.

And not everyone can get 9 Chariots into a battalion that gives +1 to wound against monsters and makes the army lower drops. Corsairs and Fleetmaster are also solid for their points. If you’re building around Chariots, you probably want to go Anvilgard, same as if you’re building around demigryphs go Hammerhal or Helstorm Rockets go Greywater.

300 points of Freeguild Crossbows, standing still, with +1 to hit from hurricanum against an enemy with a 5+ save: 17.8 damage at 24”. 300 points of Darkshards moving and then shooting, with +1 to hit from Hurricanum against a 5+ save: 16.7 damage at 22” (16”+ 6” move). Note that 24” and 22” do not reach the enemy if you’ve been given top of first turn and the two sides deploy 24” apart, like in 5 or so of the 2019 GHB missions. 300 points of Chariots moving and then shooting, with +1 to hit from hurricanum against a 5+ save: 15.5 damage at 28” (16” + 12” move). So 300 points of Chariots gain extra effective range and a ton of mobility in exchange for 2 less damage than Freeguild Crossbowmen, who have to spend the entire game standing still and if they’re charged are useless for the rest of the game. I think Darkshards are interesting, but really require the Sorceress command ability to run and shoot to be a consistent threat. If you’re going to take into account, say, Tempest’s Eye +1 to wound (which, while guaranteed, only affects units wholly within 12” of the general), you should take into account our no save spell (which can affect any unit in the game).

This is obviously disingenuous. The counterargument is “we have a game changing, matchup defining spell (any matchup with a focus on saves, like Stormcast, bronzed flesh Khorne, and Deepkin turn 1) and the Chariot in the battalion is also incredibly efficient and matchup defining (any matchup with monsters, like Slaanesh, Khorne, Sylvaneth, Nurgle, Skaven, FEC, Legions, Phoenix or Griffon based Cities of sigmar, Mawcrushas, Etc). Also, we have a good artifact and another good spell.” The point is that Anvilgard has fewer flashy, obvious mechanics benefits (like Hallowheart or Living City), but what it does have can be extremely effective and efficient against most of what’s in the meta right now.

I think I can make strong tournament competitive lists for all 7 cities. I think Hallowheart is the most obviously strong allegiance at first glance but, aside from Ignite Weapons, Mystic shield, or warscroll spells, there isn’t a lot of buffing of other units going on. Hallowheart is amazing at spells, but that’s really most of what it does. Other cities can take large numbers of units and give them more or better bonuses than Hallowheart (Tempest’s Eye and +1 to wound for shooting AND +1 melee attacks, Hammerhal and demigryphs/Griffon, Greywater Fastness and artillery) or they have their own cool tricks (Living City and Phoenicium come to mind) or their own gamechanging spells (Anvilgard), or they can do cool combos with other allegiances (Living City and Tempest’s Eye), or they can participate in the Fight First activation wars (Living City and Tempest’s Eye). The point is, what other cities do isn’t as obviously flashy, but each of them is tournament viable. Honestly, Tempest’s Eye and Living City are the two biggest standouts to me, much more so than hallowheart. And I’m planning on taking Anvilgard to tournaments once I’ve finished assembling my new army because I think it can win tournaments.

You’ll probably want at least one of the following 2 things: * Sorceress (90) with Vitriolic Spray * Celestial Hurricanum with battlemage (280) OR a second Sorceress (90) * Umbral spell portal (70) * 1 unit of Darkshards or Bleakswords (100 or 90) 340-540 points. The above is probably core. Hurricanum is just so good it’s hard not to take, Sorceress and a darkling coven unit to make that 8+ Vitriolic Spray into a 6+ (get it 72% of the time) and cast it anywhere on the board with portal. This spell opens up a TON of options. You could build towards Freeguild Crossbowmen getting Bridged forward to shoot at whatever has no save as if they hadn’t moved. You could build towards a dreadlord on dragon and drakespawn chariots for spamming mortal wounds and getting a buff to the dreadlord. You could build towards Longbeards with shields moving up the board and use the Warden King and our free D3 command points to get extra attacks to kill whatever now has no save. Point is, once you’ve got your bases covered with the portal -> no save, a lot of things without a lot of rend suddenly become useful and interesting. Other part that’s a good place to start: * Charrwind Beasthunters battalion (120) * Fleetmaster (60) * 3 x 10 Black Ark Corsairs (3 x 80) (but you can add more Corsairs if you’d like, like 2 x 40 and 1 x 10 if you want a battleshock immune army that’s getting 4 attacks per, after spending 2 cp of our D3+2 we’ll get first turn - this would be 640) * 2 x 3 or 3 x 3 Scourgerunner Chariots (2 or 3 x 150) * 0-1 Kharibdyss (0-170 - same thing as Black Ark Corsairs, these want the +1 attack from the Fleetmaster) 720 points minimum. This is for my monster slaying scourgerunner Chariot list. This isn’t as necessary for a competitive Anvilgard list, but it’s powerful. Even without the no save spell, 6-9 Chariots with +1 to wound monsters at 2 attacks, (2+ or 3+)/2+/-1/D3 and D3 mortal wounds on a 6 to hit... that’ll make any monster focused list tremble in its boots. And it also reduces our drops down below double digits, which is nice. You’ll want to pick one or both of the two core things above - if you don’t want either, you should probably play a different city, because these are the best* things we have going for us. *Edit: we do have some other cool things. You could put the Drakescale Cloak on an Anointed on Frost Phoenix to give it (when someone casts a spell) a 3+ save, 4+++ FNP, then a 5+++ FNP, and enemy melee is -1 to wound, and have something almost as hard to kill as Gotrek! *Double edit: You could also use Sap strength and Sorceress warscroll spell and Pha’s Protection from Hysh Battlemage to stack penalties to hit on a unit, and then add Frost Phoenix for an additional to wound penalty.

Unless something changes, no. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/age_of_sigmar_generals_handbook_designers_commentary_en.pdf Q: If a unit’s Pitched Battle profile is not included in the General’s Handbook 2019 or its Official Errata document, can it be used in a Pitched Battle? A: No

Yep. 2 MSU Marauder horsemen, one sorcerer on manticore, and 4 gorebeast chariots. And if I wanted to get really rowdy, I’d consider 20 Chaos knights with glaives, 5 marauder horsemen, 3 gorebeast Chariots, a Chaos lord on daemonic Mount, and a lord of Chaos on foot. Then with my other 700 points (minus the battalion cost) I’d take a Keeper and an Epitome. 4 drops, Keeper and chaos knights and gorebeasts attempt to alpha strike turn 1.

Taking a step back from all the anger, I think writing off Anvilgard the city as uncompetitive after using a very, very uncompetitive list is probably wrong - you can make an uncompetitive Slaanesh list or an uncompetitive Skaven or Daughters of khaine list, and that wouldn’t mean that the factions are bad - it means your list doesn’t utilize the strengths of those factions. The two main power points we get out of Anvilgard are Vitriolic Spray through spell portal and Scourgerunner Chariots in the battalion. The posted list had neither of those. There are other things that are good to have, but those two things are what you build around when you want to take down a tournament. And I do think Anvilgard has the potential to build tournament winning lists. I’m planning on switching from slaanesh to anvilgard once my Chariots, Hurricanum, Corsairs, and heroes are assembled because I believe in the strength of Anvilgard.

Yeah, I’m planning on using a Celestial Hurricanum with battlemage to cast Spellportal, and sorceress plus 10 dark elf infantry to cast vitriolic spray anywhere on the board 70% of the time to go with my 14-15 scourgerunner Chariots (who can then take advantage of that lack of rend).

I’ve decided to convert most of mine. I’m normally a Chaos player and I want to keep that theme. I’m picking up: * Tzaangor Skyfire and Black Guard as the driver / passenger * 3 Seeker Chariots of Slaanesh (replacing the demons with the Tzaangor and Black Guard) * 3 Khorne Bloodthrones (replacing, etc, etc, you get it) * 3 Burning Chariots * 3 Tuskgor Chariots * And 3 start collecting Anvilgard will give me 3 regular Chariots. My Hurricanum with Battlemage will be a Nighthaunt Black Coach with the ghost driver replaced by a Gaunt summoner, and on top of the carriage will be a Vortex from a Mutalith Vortex Beast. By doing them in groups of 3, it’ll be easy to identify which unit of 3 is which. I figure with a similar paint scheme tying them all together and maybe airbrushing some Anvilgard symbols on everything, it’ll come together as a cohesive chaos anvilgard scheme.

WHAT. Guys. 6 Scourgerunner Chariots, for 300 points, have 8 shots at 3/3/-1/D3, 4 shots at 2/3/-1/D3, 16 shots at 5/4/-/1 and 8 shots at 4/4/-/1. That’s comparable to 24 Freeguild Handgunners standing still plus 9 Freeguild Crossbowmen standing still, and you can do that while moving. So you’re already comparable to or better than other shooting. And you can do that while moving 12”! But wait, there’s more! Against monsters while in the battalion, you get +1 to wound, and also 6s to hit deal D3 mortal wounds! This is designed to take down monsters, and on average, 6 Chariots in the battalion shoot down a Keeper of a Secrets in one turn. But wait, there’s more! You also get 36 wounds for 300 points - better than the 30 wounds for 300 points that Handgunners get. But wait, there’s more! You get 36 melee attacks at 4/4 or 4/5, much better than, say, Freeguild crossbowmen - who get 30 melee attacks at 5/5. Scourgerunner Chariots are so much better at shooting, melee, tanking, and mobility than most other Free Cities shooting - and we get a battalion that buffs them even more! Please, guys, get excited over this! I’m obviously super pumped already.