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CB42 last won the day on June 21

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111 Celestant-Prime

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  1. My goats style involves Depraved Drove with 30 Bestigors, 20 Seekers, 60 Ungors, a Keeper, an epitome, a great bray shaman, and Cogs. But you can swap out 20 Seekers and put in whatever you want - another 30 Bestigors, or 3 Doom Bulls and the Masque, or another Keeper and 10 Bestigors, or 9 Bullgors, etc. Alternately, if you’re looking for less of a tournament competition build, Doom Bulls are great from a # of wounds to points perspective, and generate a lot of depravity when they die. I sometimes play Depraved Drove casually with friends with no keepers and instead 4 doombulls, 2 Ghorgons, 6 Bullgors, and some mix of Bestigors and Ungors. It’s pretty bad but it’s great fun for playing against friends who don’t have tournament lists and aren’t super familiar with the game.
  2. The Fyreslayers White Dwarf has points but is still not matched play legal because one of the heroes was listed with points but no battle role, which invalidated the whole thing. And any White Dwarfs with points from before the GHB 2019 are not matched play legal, so if this is matched play legal it is only legal until the next time a GHB or similar announces that stuff not in the GHB is invalidated. So I'd say it looks like it's probably legal to use until June 2020, unless GW switches to a different points update schedule and invalidates things in December rather than in June. Adding Palisades means losing units and I'd rather keep the Epitome and Hellstrider over the endless spells you mentioned. In my experience, unless Syll'esske were to be physically touching the center of the palisades, it's too easy for shooting units to move to get LOS. And even then, Syll's whip is so long that there's a non-zero chance that shooting units will be able to get LOS anyways on the tip of the whip, no matter how you position Syll'Esske.
  3. Ulgu, SyllEsske host. Keeper, Keeper, Shalaxi, Syll’Esske, Epitome, Hellstrider x 4, Seeker Cavalcade. Give one Keeper Doppelgänger Cloak, give the Epitome Sword of Judgment. Start with 2+D3 cp turn 1 and generate infinite depravity as you push forward. You can give up a command trait in exchange for double depravity.
  4. Man, I hope this doesn’t get treated as legal for tournaments. It’s just so absurdly strong that I’d feel obligated to switch to it for tournaments, if only to keep up with the power creep of other Slaanesh players doing the same.
  5. Unless something changes, no. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/age_of_sigmar_generals_handbook_designers_commentary_en.pdf Q: If a unit’s Pitched Battle profile is not included in the General’s Handbook 2019 or its Official Errata document, can it be used in a Pitched Battle? A: No
  6. Yep. 2 MSU Marauder horsemen, one sorcerer on manticore, and 4 gorebeast chariots. And if I wanted to get really rowdy, I’d consider 20 Chaos knights with glaives, 5 marauder horsemen, 3 gorebeast Chariots, a Chaos lord on daemonic Mount, and a lord of Chaos on foot. Then with my other 700 points (minus the battalion cost) I’d take a Keeper and an Epitome. 4 drops, Keeper and chaos knights and gorebeasts attempt to alpha strike turn 1.
  7. Grashrak has the Great Bray Shaman keyword and it is unclear to me whether he is part of the depraved drove battalion or not.
  8. The unit as a whole must move closer... which means that you measure the closest part of the unit to the mirror. If that distance shrinks, it doesn’t matter what the rest of the unit did - the unit moved closer. If that distance expands because the closest model moved away slightly, it doesn’t matter if every other model in the unit shuffled closer - the distance between the mirror and the unit increased, so it moved away.
  9. Keeper, Epitome, 2 x 30 Bestigors, 1 x Great Bray Shaman, 1 x 40 Ungors, 2 x 10 Ungors, Depraved Drove, Cogs, allied Grashraks Despoilers. 4 drops list. The idea is that the Bestigors are for killing anything with 10 or more models, or any hero who has a relic. To do so, you want to use the Epitome to cast Cogs. The Bestigors deploy 24” wide (which means 9 or so Bestigors won’t be near your front line of besties), either on the line (if you’re going first) or right behind a screen of Ungors (if you don’t know but you don’t think they can charge you) or 3.5” back from a screen of Ungors. One Great Bray shaman sets up so that one unit of besties is wholly within 12”; Grashrak sets up to get the other one wholly within 12”. On your turn, the Ungors open the gates and move to the side, you get Cogs up, your Besties are now going 12”+1d6 and then they’re charging 2”+2d6 (rerolling If within 12” of an enemy with an artifact). Keeper deploys at the line or 3.5” back from an Ungors screen. Keeper runs forward and charges a monster or something. Feel free to charge a screen, have the Bestigors kill the screen, then the keeper piles in 3” and is now in range of something tasty behind the screen and then fights twice. Either have one unit of besties fight first and the other unit of besties fight a locus’d unit. Or have one unit of besties fight first and the other unit of besties charges one model into combat and then strings things back and then sets up 4.1” away from the enemy unit so that if they pile in 3” they can’t swing with 1” weapons for most of their stuff, so when you activate either they’ve piled in uselessly and you crush them or your besties pile in 4” and crush them. Grashrak can be dropped for another GBS and to get the list down to 3 drops, but I like grashrak’s spell and the despoilers give another set of bodies for screening or holding things.
  10. Pretenders can be interesting. I think it works well for either depraved drove or large groups of Daemonettes. Epicurean just generally isn’t worth it. If it were 100 points? Maybe, yeah, but it would still be a weak battalion - but cheap enough it wouldn’t be a costly expenditure. If it were additional mortal wounds instead of replacing damage with mortals? It would be a strong choice at 180. But replacing a third of our successful -1 rend hits with mortal wounds just isn’t that good unless against a save of 3+. Or ethereal 4+. In the absolute best case scenario (30 Daemonettes fighting twice), it turns 60 hits at -1 rend into 40 hits at -1 rend and 20 mortal wounds. That matters against, what, Sequitors? 2+ save buffed up monsters that you won’t even be able to wrap all 30 Daemonettes in range? And grimghast reapers? It’s just not a big enough buff to make massed Daemonettes into a tournament winning list. And massed Daemonettes are only points efficient anyways when fighting twice with a keeper - they’re otherwise somewhat mediocre for their points even with the exploding 6s. Add in the logistical issues with getting 3 x 30 Daemonettes into range of the fight twice aura and you’ll see why even top tournament lists that bring more Daemonettes than normal might do 30/10/10 and no battalion rather than 30/30/30 Epicurean. I’d say to make massed Daemonettes work, don’t bring Epicurean and instead bring one 30 block per Keeper (say, 2 keepers and 2 x 30 daemonettes) and then use Hellstriders as the remaining battleline.
  11. But also it doesn't need to be! I know 3 keepers is all the hotness, but I run Depraved Drove Slaanesh with 113 models on the board turn 1, and I've seen a ton of success with that - I've yet to do worse than 4-1 across 5 or 6 tournaments and I managed to go 5-0 with the list at the BWG GT. People should feel free to live their large model count dreams with Slaanesh, regardless of what the meta is!
  12. They're a mobile screen. You take them not because they can shoot but because they get their 6" move turn 1. This allows you to screen your forces while deploying effectively on the line. As an example: Let's say you're fighting against FEC and FEC will have choice. 24" apart. If you put your keeper with thermalrider cloak on the line within 3" of your screen, the terrorgheist can charge your screen, kill your screen, then pile into your keeper and kill your keeper. So you need to place your keeper 6" back from your screen, not 3". But that means you're out of charge range turn 1, so FEC will just give you first turn and life will suck for you. With Ungor Raiders, you place your keeper basically on the line and then move your screen forward. Now your keeper is screened with a 6" gap, which means that the TG can't charge your screen and pile into the keeper, but your keeper could cross the 24" gap and threaten a turn 1 charge. (There's also an element of putting models in the way so that the TG can't just jump over your screen and fight your keeper anyways, but the logic holds up - you can do things like move 6 ungor raiders up and use the other 4 to fill some of the space in between to prevent the TG from shooting the gap). Also: On focal points and a few other maps, you can get your raiders within 6" of an objective with their 6" move. This forces the other player to dedicate resources to killing them turn one or to getting 11 bodies onto the objective, which dictates part of their turn 1 strat. Also: Against some enemies, it's crucial for denying deepstrike (think eels coming in from ambush - if you can put raiders 6" foward on one flank, and deny the ambush with hellstriders behind you, you free up a lot more room for you to position your keepers near that flank without getting alpha'd by eels). Also: they can screen out gnawholes that are placed near your forces, so a skaven player turn 1 can't skitterleap, WLV, then gnawhole back to safety. Makes it a one way trip for any enterprising grey seers. Ungor Raiders are the best unit I haven't managed to fit into my list. I may bring them back if I switch from 30 Slaaneshtigors / 20 Seekers to 60 Slaaneshtigors.
  13. 1) List wouldn't fit a regular Keeper. You'd need to drop an Exalted Champ or endless spell or ungor raiders or something to make room, which would make the list worse. 2) Shalaxi is REAL good at killing heroes and behemoths - which is good in a meta heavy with heroes and behemoths (the Slaanesh mirror matchup, Bloodthirster spam, GUOs, verminlords, terrorgheists, Archaon, etc). 3) Since you'll be moving Shalaxi wholly within 12" of a regular keeper anyways, Shalaxi doesn't suffer from losing the command ability because you'll just use the other keeper to make Shalaxi fight twice. 4) Shalaxi can get built in rerolls for fighting certain enemies (and so doesn't need to sacrifice to the Fane) and doesn't need / can't take an artifact or command trait, which compares well with a naked Keeper, which would be yet another hero who wants to get rerolls from the Fane.
  14. Yeah, fair. I was running the math assuming you can get 20 in (which kills him about 45% of the time), but you can probably only get 12-15 in. At which point you’re more likely putting 4-6 wounds on him than 8. But that does get him into kill range for a Bladebringer on Exalted to finish him off. The right move is absolutely to just avoid him, but on many maps thats not viable - not just duality, but also you often don’t want him burning your objectives in scorched or valor, you don’t want him near where the objectives drop in starstrike, you don’t want him sitting on the crucial middle objective in focal unless you can take all their backline objectives, stuff like that. I think it gives Slaanesh armies a reason to take more chaff. You need those bodies to serve as speed bumps.
  15. Things that could potentially kill Gotrek: * 30 Daemonettes fighting twice * A bladebringer on exalted chariot fighting twice as well as 5 hellstriders fighting twice Things that will not kill Gotrek, no matter what: * Keepers of Secrets Gotrek, especially at tournaments with Duality of Death, means we need to be able to do two things. First, we want to be able to outdrop armies with Gotrek (to take top in Duality), as otherwise Gotrek moves onto the objective in Duality and scores for the whole game and a single unit moves onto the other objective and scores for one turn, and we lose (if we get top of 1, we can do the same thing to them - put 10 daemonettes on one objective where Gotrek is and our whole army on the other objective and just win). Second, we want to have enough chaff units to slow Gotrek down. Alternate ways to accomplish this include endless spells such as Shackles or Prismatic Palisade that could be used to block his path or slow his movement. Besides duality, the biggest concerns will probably be armies that want to castle up and can bring Gotrek to defend the castle. Seraphon armies that summon skinks to clog up the board and have Gotrek punch anyone who comes near the Slann or EOTG. Shootcast plus Gotrek. Free Peoples shooting plus Gotrek. For these armies, we play the mission rather than try to crash the castle, or if we do try to crash the castle, accept that anything that goes near Gotrek will die a horrible, horrible death. Castles tend to stay put until turn 3-5, so hold all other objectives for 2 turns, set up surviving models as a screen around Gotrek and co, and make it hard for them to push out onto objectives turn 3. My Depraved Drove list with 130 bodies will be fine; my Ungors will die to Gotrek, but they'll slow him down while my Seekers and Bestigors kill everything else. But people running 3 keeper lists will have to simply abandon the part of the board that Gotrek is on until they can start summoning Daemonettes to hold him in place.
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