AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[Souleater]

@bonzaiSorry, I meant taking my Bonesplitters army and running it in Big Waaagh. But as was pointed out, that loses our tribe bonuses, so that’s a no-go really. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Souleater

[broche]

Long time away, went trough the battletome in the last couple day. Ironjawz are obviously very good. Bonesplitterz doesnt seem really. I'm trying to figure out what king of mix could be competive but i've had severall issue with list building

- Battleline limitation: Only Orruk are battleline for every faction and they aren't a great unit. I guess a block of 30 with spear and some save / hit buff is a good tarpit with decent hitting power. But with no rend it will take time to chew through high save.

- Arrowboys are tough to fit. You can only play a block of 30 in bonegrinz, and with 5+ base to hit and nothing else than the command to boost to hit, they have super weak unleash hell. Shooting is always cool but they are tough to fit.

- Morboys aren't bad. Battleline in darkfoot and hit harder than base orruk for cheaper point. 1'' range suck a bit but at least you get 4 attack per model on the charge. Darkfoot ability is obviously still a good choice as most army have some ward save.

- Boarboys is probably the most evident choice (As pointed by @PlasticCraic). Spaming them in icebone will give you a decent output of MW, they have good move. The spell that buff them is also good. A 10 or 15 model unit with buff is a good hammer and and well timed waaagh can make them stick on the board)

- Battalion: That is were it get weird. I'm sure what's the good approach for the army. Trait and artefact basicly suck so i'm not sure you want extra. I guess you could go 1 drop with 3 heros, 5 units and a monster like good old idol of gork (not clear it's legal profile is not in the book?) 

It's not clear to me if you want to choose first turn. Free move is usually better when you go first, but the new waaagh will shut down alpha strike army really well so you could be on the draw with most of your army at the end of round 1.

So yeah tough time for the bonesplitterz!

Edit: just realized that Waaagh is just combat phase. meh

Edited September 21, 2021 by broche

[PlasticCraic]

Excellent summary @broche

Looking forward to seeing what lists you come up with!

Can confirm that the Rogue Idol is legal, there is a ruling on that in the Forgeworld pdf on the FAQ website.  They belong to specific factions as an approved exception:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ZSGu5E0qVvhlmEuC.pdf

[broche]

So after some tought, i figured out competitive list are either Icebone or Drakfoot cause your power cascade to the whole army. Bonegrinz doesnt seem to make the cut. I also seem to want to include Rogue Idol in any list right now. My icebone would maybe look like this:

 

Quote

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Icebone
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
Maniak Weirdnob (100)*
Wardokk (80)*
Savage Big Boss (65)*
- General
30 x Savage Orruks (495)*
- Chompas
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Savage Boarboys (280)*
- Chompas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)*
- Chompas
4 x Savage Big Stabbas (160)*
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (80)*
Rogue Idol (430)*
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 169
Drops: 2
 

You could cut a hero to be 1 drop, but i like the cheap big bost for the extra 3'' move. 

For Drakfoot it would look more like this:

Quote

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Drakkfoot
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Wurrgog Prophet (150)**
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Power of the Were-boar
Maniak Weirdnob (100)*
Wardokk (80)*
Savage Big Boss (65)*
- General
30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (465)*
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Savage Orruk Morboys (155)**
10 x Savage Orruk Morboys (155)**
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)*
- Chompas
4 x Savage Big Stabbas (160)*
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (80)*
Rogue Idol (430)*
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 179
Drops: 2
 

So pretty similar overall. Bit more aggressive (even 10 morboys can hit quite hard). So far i didn't find any place for Arrowboys. 20 arrowboyz is only 10 damage without Bonegrinz (assuming +1 to hit) and a disapointing 3 damage in opponents turn... and with base 5+ they're even bad at snipping heroes...

[bonzai]

8 hours ago, broche said:

So after some tought, i figured out competitive list are either Icebone or Drakfoot cause your power cascade to the whole army. Bonegrinz doesnt seem to make the cut. I also seem to want to include Rogue Idol in any list right now. My icebone would maybe look like this:

 

You could cut a hero to be 1 drop, but i like the cheap big bost for the extra 3'' move. 

For Drakfoot it would look more like this:

So pretty similar overall. Bit more aggressive (even 10 morboys can hit quite hard). So far i didn't find any place for Arrowboys. 20 arrowboyz is only 10 damage without Bonegrinz (assuming +1 to hit) and a disapointing 3 damage in opponents turn... and with base 5+ they're even bad at snipping heroes...

I think Bonegrinz will have one brick of 30 arrowboys that they do all out Attack on every turn, maybe a pair of Wurrgogs for the mask, a few units of big stabbas for rend, and then flood the board with as many msu arrowboys as they can. Is it great? No. But it can be annoying to chew through.

Regarding the other lists, I am undecided about bricks of 30 foot sloggers. It helps with holding 1 objective, but it also ties up more of your army in one spot. I don't know. It's a trade off...

[broche]

2 hours ago, bonzai said:

I think Bonegrinz will have one brick of 30 arrowboys that they do all out Attack on every turn, maybe a pair of Wurrgogs for the mask, a few units of big stabbas for rend, and then flood the board with as many msu arrowboys as they can. Is it great? No. But it can be annoying to chew through.

All valid points. However IMHO bonegrinz is just inferior. it give you back the old arrowboys shooting but withouth any real buff. All ability are now exclusivly in melee (exploding 6, +1 to hit spell, +1 to wound). 10 charging boar in Icebone will do something like 20 damage and 6 mortal (and some rend 2 if you get the spell). In contrast 30 arrowboys is 22.5 damage flat in shoot (with a +1 to hit). If you opponent tie them with any 4+ save unit, he can hold them for a while with all out defense. The fact that the other two clans give you a buff army wide make them much better.

 

2 hours ago, bonzai said:

Regarding the other lists, I am undecided about bricks of 30 foot sloggers. It helps with holding 1 objective, but it also ties up more of your army in one spot. I don't know. It's a trade off...

Yeah 2 x 20 it might be better. problem I had was mostly battleshock (with a block of 30 you can just inspire presence them and not bother too much with the 10 - squad). But anyway battleshock is a huge problem for BS. 

[bonzai]

7 hours ago, broche said:

All valid points. However IMHO bonegrinz is just inferior. it give you back the old arrowboys shooting but withouth any real buff. All ability are now exclusivly in melee (exploding 6, +1 to hit spell, +1 to wound). 10 charging boar in Icebone will do something like 20 damage and 6 mortal (and some rend 2 if you get the spell). In contrast 30 arrowboys is 22.5 damage flat in shoot (with a +1 to hit). If you opponent tie them with any 4+ save unit, he can hold them for a while with all out defense. The fact that the other two clans give you a buff army wide make them much better.

No arguments from me, except I would put Drakkfoot at almost the same place as Bonegrinz. The Drakkfoot's ability only applies to attacks. All of their mortal wound output comes from things outside of the attack phase so they get ward saves against it as normal. They always get their regular armor save, and quality rend is rare. So you are evidently supposed to go with volume of attacks, and if you are doing that anyway you may as well go with Icebone as it is useful whether your opponent has a ward save or not.

I will still play Drakkfoot. I have since first edition. But the main ability is functionaly no different than it was, last edition, but it lost all the other stuff that the subfaction gave me. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by bonzai

[broche]

16 minutes ago, bonzai said:

The Drakkfoot's ability only applies to attacks. All of their mortal wound output comes from things outside of the attack phase so they get ward saves against it as normal.

I've the book in french, but drakkfoot ability is not just against MW it's any wound and mortal wound made by attack. Doesn't apply to spell or wurgog ability but that mostly it. 

[PlasticCraic]

3 minutes ago, broche said:

I've the book in french, but drakkfoot ability is not just against MW it's any wound and mortal wound made by attack. Doesn't apply to spell or wurgog ability but that mostly it. 

This is correct - but I think the point was that the Drakkfoot ability used to only apply to wounds (not mortal wounds) from attacks.  That got better - it now specifies mortal wounds as well - but they took away both of your ways to do mortal wounds from attacks in Drakkfoot (Curse and the Monster Hunter table).  So you're not getting any benefit from the new wording - and meanwhile, they also significantly reduced your volume of attacks (90 -> 60 on both Savages and Arrow Boys).  

[bonzai]

4 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

This is correct - but I think the point was that the Drakkfoot ability used to only apply to wounds (not mortal wounds) from attacks.  That got better - it now specifies mortal wounds as well - but they took away both of your ways to do mortal wounds from attacks in Drakkfoot (Curse and the Monster Hunter table).  So you're not getting any benefit from the new wording - and meanwhile, they also significantly reduced your volume of attacks (90 -> 60 on both Savages and Arrow Boys).  

Yep, that was my point. It didn't work on mortal wounds before, but now what mortal wound dealing attacks do we have? I am not aware of any. So no real change in practice, other than all of the secondary things that we lost.

[broche]

Ok got it. I still think it's a good ability. Icebone is probably superior cause is more versatile and is better the higher the save (and our main weakness) but Darkfoot can swing matchup (cities or fyreslayer come in mind). Also significant number of army have access to 6++ so it's flat 16.67% damage increase agains thoses, and big monster with Amulet of destiny are gonna be everywhere as well. 

I guess to bonegrinz to worth it you could maybe play 100% arrowboy, bet high for triumph for a big early volley i dunno

i've a game tomorrow (trying the icebone) that will give me a better feel of the army

also unless i've bad sight it seem wurgog can shrug off mask damage with is own ward? that make glowing tatoo on him not bad at all (i suspect this will get FAQ)

Edited September 23, 2021 by broche

[Magnus The Blue]

Arrow boys are in a weird place right now.  They have gone from a hard to kill shooting unit to a true hybrid: lots of wounds, solid combat and ok ranged attacks.  Getting double the attacks in combat means that they are actually a threat in combat (especially in icebone) but without Brutal Beast spirits just can't do a worthwhile Unleash Hell.  I'm going to try units of 10 to camp objectives and do chip damage as needed but also think they would work on-mass in Bonegrin: one unit of 30 for All Out attack and lots of 10 Orruk units.

One of the things I'd struggling with is who to use as a general.  Big Boss seems obvious for Great Hunter but then your stuck with a fragile general who only really does anything when in the thick of the fighting: so will proble die unless you hide him in the back like a grot.

Prophet with Master of Magic seems solid, but I want my Prophet to be shooting lasers from his eyes, not casting spell or worrying about staying alive.

Which leaves use with Wardoks (5 wounds!) or Wierdnobs who both feel too weedy to be the general and mean no Great Hunter. Humm, hard choices.

[Warbossironteef]

Okay guys. I think I found a perfect BS list given our new options. It's a mixture of meme and the few good units in the book. 190 wounds too. It actually looks okay on paper and has some fun things to keep you entertained when the game turns on you. 

It uses two "tanky" Wurgogs for mortals, 4x Savage Big Bosses as a pseudo-unit that can do some damage, even throws in a cheeky aracane tome/flaming Weapon for some lols. Then it has two blocks of pigs for some wounds and to be super annoying during a Waaghh and some random Stabbas to up our pregame move to 7 and to provide a little punch to units stuck in combat.

I actually think I would enjoy this list, for what it is, and have some chance at winning some games. The 15 pigs with mounts that have 1inch range coherency thing is going to annoy me so much but they are 45 wounds. 

This list can take a punch from melee armies. So many wounds and you can call a Waaghh, get all 5 units to attack all at once (4xbosses and then a 5th unit) then survive and have your Wurgogg melt face. 

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Icebone

-Double Warlord Battalion

LEADERS
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
Savage Big Boss (65)
- General
- Command Trait: Great Hunter
- Artefact: Arcane Tome
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Savage Big Boss (65)
Savage Big Boss (65)
Savage Big Boss (65)
UNITS
15 x Savage Boarboys (420)
15 x Savage Boarboys (420)
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)
5 x Savage Boarboys (140)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (80)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (80)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (80)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (80)
TOTAL: 2000/2000

[Smash]

Is Maniak Wierdnob worth taking just to get a mount trait in bonesplitterz? 

[bonzai]

14 hours ago, broche said:

also unless i've bad sight it seem wurgog can shrug off mask damage with is own ward? that make glowing tatoo on him not bad at all (i suspect this will get FAQ)

Yep. That is why you will see a lot of 2 Wurrgog lists with Amulet of destiny and glowing tattoos. 

[bonzai]

55 minutes ago, Smash said:

Is Maniak Wierdnob worth taking just to get a mount trait in bonesplitterz? 

For a mount trait? No. If you want a designated caster for glowing green tusks? Then they are your option.

[broche]

2 hours ago, Smash said:

Is Maniak Wierdnob worth taking just to get a mount trait in bonesplitterz? 

i didn't realize you could give him a mount trait! I like is signature spell. I think I would chose fast as is mount trait (since is spell is low range it allow you to move before once per game). Or it give him a 24'' move to steal an objective from uncarefull opponent

 

[Orkmann]

I think the maniak is still a good pick for its cost. Due to his speed and the access to fast un he will be able to keep up with the piggies and cast mystic shield or levitate depending on the situation.

While the most obvious choice is putting the glowing tattoo on the wurrgog, there is also a cheeky play if you give it to the maniak. In the turn when you call the waaagh, move him 24 inches and tag something scary - then just make sure you roll those 2+ ward saves and that scary thing is potentially out of action for a turn. Not as good as the good old Big Rukk tagging with rerolling 4+ all game, but its as good as it gets.

[crowned]

Wrote a weird list, trying to brute force what drakkfoot did with spells and what icebone wants to do now.

I personally don't think the savage big boss is that useful anymore. He's a 65 point warlord that gives you an extra 3" pregame move and your opponent an easy target for points. Without his command ability I don't see him being used in 3.0 unless for memes.

To cash in on the Masks I added another Prophet and gave him the amulet of destiny thourgh Warlord Battalion (just saw that others had the same Idea). The list wants to put down all spells in turn 1, controlling the board with shackles and using either the Idol or the Morboys to chaff and prepare countercharges with the boars. 

Spoiler

++ Pitched Battle GHB 2021 2,000 (Destruction - Orruk Warclans) [1,985pts] ++

+ Core Battalion +

Core Battalion: Battle Regiment

Core Battalion: Warlord: Extra Enhancement: Artefacts of Power

+ Leader +

Maniak Weirdnob [100pts]: Bonebeast Staff, Tusks and Hooves, Warlord - 1-2 Commanders

Wardokk [80pts]: Battle Regiment - 1 Commander, Bonebeast Stikk

Wurrgog Prophet [150pts]: Fanged Maw, General, Glowin' Tattooz, Master of Magic, Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders, Wurrog Staff

Wurrgog Prophet [150pts]: Amulet of Destiny, Fanged Maw, Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders, Wurrog Staff

+ Behemoth +

Rogue Idol [430pts]: Battle Regiment - 0-1 Monster or Artillery, Boulder Fists, Damage Table, Stompin' Feet

+ Battleline +

Savage Boarboys [280pts]: 10 Savage Boarboys, Battle Regiment - 2-5 Troops, Musician, Reinforced, Savage Stikka, Standard Bearer, Tusks and Hooves

Savage Boarboys [280pts]: 10 Savage Boarboys, Battle Regiment - 2-5 Troops, Musician, Reinforced, Savage Stikka, Standard Bearer, Tusks and Hooves

Savage Boarboys [140pts]: 5 Savage Boarboys, Musician, Savage Stikka, Standard Bearer, Tusks and Hooves, Warlord - 1-2 Troops

+ Other +

Savage Orruk Morboys [155pts]: 10 Savage Orruk Morboys, Battle Regiment - 2-5 Troops, Bone Totems, Chompa and Toof Shiv, Skull Thumper

Savage Orruk Morboys [155pts]: 10 Savage Orruk Morboys, Battle Regiment - 2-5 Troops, Bone Totems, Chompa and Toof Shiv, Skull Thumper

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Allegiance: Orruk Warclans
. . Bonesplitterz: Icebone

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

Grand Strategy: Waaagh!

+ Malign Sorcery +

Endless Spell: Soulsnare Shackles [65pts]

++ Total: [1,985pts] ++

 

[broche]

I think what i find the most sad is seemingly the lack of variety in list building. Right now it's all Wurgog with ward (until it get FAQed) + Icebone and pig. 

[bonzai]

10 hours ago, broche said:

I think what i find the most sad is seemingly the lack of variety in list building. Right now it's all Wurgog with ward (until it get FAQed) + Icebone and pig. 

Yep. That is my biggest complaint about the book.

[swarmofseals]

Just a small thing to consider:

Rippa's Snarlfangs.

There is a lot of shooting in the meta, and this is the cheapest unit that you can use to draw unleash hell. If their shooting is away from where you are charging you can also use the 6" pile in to tag a shooting unit without charging and maybe waste a turn of their shots.

[cplhicks]

Got my second game in today with my Bonesplitterz against Lumineth.  We were both new to 3.0 so we were learning the rules as we went and kept things causal.    Game went neck and neck with scoring up until turn 3 where I managed to kill every unit but Teclis and still had a good number of units left and my opponent conceded. 

Some highlights were a Idol charging a Loreseeker leaving him on 1 would which would cost me the objective but I finished him off with the end of combat phase MW on a 4+. 

I also used the Tikki mask to nuke a fox off the table in one round.  First roll was a 1 and then I rolled 4 MW's to myself (saved half) and then after that I just kept rolling 3+ like a boss lol. 

I was able to do a cheeky pile in move on his spears to draw in his unit of 20 archers so I could charge them next turn with a Idol and not worry about unleash hell or redeploy. 

It was a really fun game and my opponent was a super awesome guy.  I'm feeling a tad bit more hopeful about the army.

Edited September 28, 2021 by cplhicks

[Tangjuicebox]

So I rotate between Ironjawz, Gitz, and CoS mostly but I wanted to try out my Bonesplitterz for the first time in a good while. I was pleasantly surprised. I played a 2k against an Slaneesh list with archaon and the Lazer mask on the wurgog was the ******. Did 28 wounds and took 7 himself (6 of which I was able to heal) over 3 rounds. Finished off Archaon, a keeper, and some blissbarb seekers. Boars were solid and Icebone was better than I expected. 

Gave me some hope that these boyz are solid. Next time I'm going to take 2 wurrgogs and put the master of magic on the one without the better save. Edit: probably drop the warboss and one of the wardokks for another wurrgog. Drop the arifact on the maniac weirdnob so I can bring one wurgog with the +4 ward, an the other with master of magic and the amulet of destiny. 

 Army Name: Icebone Boars
Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
Army Type: Bonesplitterz
Subfaction: Icebone
Battlepack: Pitched Battles
Points Limit: 2000 pts
General: Wurrgog Prophet
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired
Units
    Savage Big Stabbas
        Battlefield Role: Other
        Points Cost: 80 pts
    Savage Big Stabbas
        Battlefield Role: Other
        Points Cost: 80 pts
Core Battalions
    Hunters of the Heartlands
        Savage Boarboys
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Reinforced: Once
            Points Cost: 280 pts
        Savage Boarboys
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Reinforced: Once
            Points Cost: 280 pts
        Savage Orruks
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Reinforced: Twice
            Points Cost: 495 pts
    Warlord
    Magnificent Bonus: Artefacts of Power
        Savage Boarboys
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Points Cost: 140 pts
        Savage Boarboys
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Points Cost: 140 pts
        Savage Big Boss
            Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Points Cost: 65 pts
        Wurrgog Prophet (General)
            Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Command Traits: Master of Magic
            Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz
            Spells: Power of the Were-boar
            Points Cost: 150 pts
        Maniak Weirdnob
            Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Artefacts of Power: Mork’s Boney Bitz
            Spells: Glowy Green Tusks
            Points Cost: 100 pts
        Wardokk
            Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Spells: Glowy Green Tusks
            Points Cost: 80 pts
        Wardokk
            Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Spells: Gorkamorka’s War Cry
            Points Cost: 80 pts
Total Points: 1970 pts
 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Tangjuicebox

[crowned]

After a game against Bonereapers I am really satisfied with Savage Boarboys with Stikkas. With Icebone and a +1 to hit and wound from a source, the -2 rend on piggies you tend to delete a 20 man of Mortek Guard fairly easy.

I just wish I had some kind of ranged damage, missing good 'ol drakkfoot fireball. Arcane Bolt feels so odd on wizards, since 99 % of times we never want to be in melee combat with them. (f.e. Arkhan being able to cast arcane bolt up to 3 times, move 16" activate their 3d3 damage after their charge, that's cool.)

I am currently arguing with myself about either going for endless spells that do the most of Mortal Wounds, to have a bit more output before going into melee combat OR trying the Unit Fights Last spell as utility. In my current list I don't see arrowboys working.