AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[PlasticCraic]

40 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

It's going to make missile and 2" reach weapons even more desirable than they already are. Fortunately we have both, so BS can probably weather the changes better than factions that currently rely on frontage to inflict damage.

Agreed - also units of 5 pigs sideways could be a really useful screening unit

On the flipside, it could be bad for competitive Bonegrinz, since they like reaching out their tendrils to bring multiple enemys within 3"

Probably not too bad overall though, imo

[Shirtripper]

Brutal Beast Spirits + All-Out Attack + Maniak Weirdnob Spell means Arrowboyz shoot on 3+ with exploding 6's, and Unleash Hell means you do all of that on a 5+!

[Verminlord]

10 minutes ago, Shirtripper said:

Brutal Beast Spirits + All-Out Attack + Maniak Weirdnob Spell means Arrowboyz shoot on 3+ with exploding 6's, and Unleash Hell means you do all of that on a 5+!

Hit/wound bonuses cap at +1 in 3rd, but yes this is good for our army

Edited June 8, 2021 by Verminlord

[Verminlord]

No stacking buffs, one CA per phase/unit, min size 10s for all our foot guys, no battalion abilities...

I am completely lost as to how to build lists with these guys anymore 😬

[AlmGandix3]

3 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

No stacking buffs, one CA per phase/unit, min size 10s for all our foot guys, no battalion abilities...

I am completely lost as to how to build lists with these guys anymore 😬

I feel the same, but I think there is no how until the FAQ/new warclans tome drops.

I liked to rock some 30 units of foot orruks and 10er units of boars now that will change.

For me it all comes down to shields and hoard buffs, the other stuff will play out while testing the new edition.

[PlasticCraic]

On 6/9/2021 at 2:07 AM, Verminlord said:

Hit/wound bonuses cap at +1 in 3rd, but yes this is good for our army

Consensus seems to be that is net, not gross?

So you could "save up" +2 to hit, to offset the -1 from overwatch /  Lookout Sir, and still be +1 overall?

Might be situationally useful

[Shirtripper]

3 hours ago, Verminlord said:

No stacking buffs, one CA per phase/unit, min size 10s for all our foot guys, no battalion abilities...

I am completely lost as to how to build lists with these guys anymore 😬

I think 30x arrowboyz are the way to go until the new tome drops. Depending on battleplan and terrain, being able to Tireless Trackers them up the field will likely put them in firing range T1.

 

I'm hoping the Rogue Idol survives in Monstrous Arcanum because I am very tempted to try them out in the Battlepack battalion that lets them move up d6" before the 1st battle round.

With a Great Hunter General, that's potentially 14" of movememt before the game begins! And with 10" movement, you could likely get both Idols into combat on T1!

[Tangjuicebox]

[Tangjuicebox]

So, shields on Savage Orruks. The warscroll says they add one to save rolls, not that the save characteristic changes. This means they can't ever be given a save above their base +5. Seems like a big deal, and bad news for me. Thoughts? 

[AlmGandix3]

21 minutes ago, Tangjuicebox said:

So, shields on Savage Orruks. The warscroll says they add one to save rolls, not that the save characteristic changes. This means they can't ever be given a save above their base +5. Seems like a big deal, and bad news for me. Thoughts? 

I hope they change the warscroll so shields set a new characteristic, maybe just for melee.

Just a thought though since savage orruks would then basically be the kruleboyz Battleline, did gw ever put that much thought in army balance? Savage orruks would objectively be better since they can get more attacks, bravery and a charge bonus. So the main difference would be allegiance and buffs from synergies. Did GW ever put a 50pt price tag on something like that?

[NauticalSoup]

I was just joking about this with my buddy. Without whatever new rules they get, kruleboys are looking a little anemic. Pay 50 points to get a worse savage orruk lol

[AlmGandix3]

2 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

I was just joking about this with my buddy. Without whatever new rules they get, kruleboys are looking a little anemic. Pay 50 points to get a worse savage orruk lol

Maybe GW finally understands that a unit with the same stats isn't worth the same points in every allegiance or they are even higher on warpstone as ever before

[Shirtripper]

2 hours ago, Tangjuicebox said:

So, shields on Savage Orruks. The warscroll says they add one to save rolls, not that the save characteristic changes. This means they can't ever be given a save above their base +5. Seems like a big deal, and bad news for me. Thoughts? 

Remember that in general there will be fewer attacks going out in melee combat with the new coherency rules and that stacking shield bonuses only comes to a max of +1 after all modifiers apply, so it's likely you can get a block of Orruks to to keep a 5+ even after -2 Rend attacks, which there won't be very many of, and the ward save will occasionally help too.

While not as durable as Chaos Warriors, I think a block of 30 will be difficult to shift without significant resources by an opponent.

[Ganigumo]

3 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

Maybe GW finally understands that a unit with the same stats isn't worth the same points in every allegiance or they are even higher on warpstone as ever before

Both of these are true. Tzaangors went up to 195 in Tzeentch,  but down to 175 in BoC.

They never really saw play in Tzeentch though, and are on 32mm bases with 1" reach.

[Keilerei]

13 hours ago, Shirtripper said:

Remember that in general there will be fewer attacks going out in melee combat with the new coherency rules and that stacking shield bonuses only comes to a max of +1 after all modifiers apply, so it's likely you can get a block of Orruks to to keep a 5+ even after -2 Rend attacks, which there won't be very many of, and the ward save will occasionally help too.

While not as durable as Chaos Warriors, I think a block of 30 will be difficult to shift without significant resources by an opponent.

It’s still bad. There is not a lot of big rend around and high volume attacks laugh at 5+ saves. What used to be our  anvil +3 / +6 ward is now just a pretty costly wound sink.

I tried out my block of 30 against LRL and 15 bladelords, maybe it was the match-up .But they just died in 2 rounds of combat, without doing much to the bladelords (quod erat demonstrandum)

I will try them a few more times, but the chance of them going back to the shelf ist pretty high.

[bonzai]

Yeah, I am kind of trying to figure out what way I want to go this edition. Ever since our first battle tome dropped, my style of play has always been caster focused Drakkfoot. 

While I can look at the rules and appreciate the necessity of many of the changes, I can't help but feel like many of them ****** my army over.

1. Casting mishaps make my high caster style potentially risky. 

2. New coherency rules limit our attacks. For an army that relies on quantity over quality, this really hurts.

3. One of our hidden strengths was our ability to spam point efficient wounds. Reinforcement caps neuter that. 

4. Caps on buffs hurt. We had multiple ways of turning mediocre units into a something scary. Again that has been toned down.

I guess the first thing I need to know is the fate of the rogue Idol. If it remains mostly unchanged, then I will play something close to what I play now. On a positive note, being able to control endless spells will be interesting. Especially emerald life swarm. Not only it and the wardoks keep the rogue Idol healed up, but it and rally can help keep our units around.

Hopefully a new battle tome will drop after the last of the kruelboyz models are released and we aren't completely ignored. My biggest wishlists aside from new units?

A Kop Rukk rework. It was way better in the previous version, and kind of worthless if you were running a wurrgog anyways as you can't cast the bonus spell more than once. I would like the casting bonuses back, or maybe a re-roll to failed casts, or maybe auto passing dance rolls for the wardoks.

The concerns about how our shields are worded are also a very valid concern.

Another thing would be to finally have a path to glory table that actually had all of our units for once. Not joking. Every version ever printed has been missing some of our units.

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by bonzai

[Magnus The Blue]

I do think we're in a word place right now, lots of the changes feel like they hurt us, but we got off lightly with points and the meta moving to more monsters will definitely benefit us.  

I think Wardocs with curse is potentially a game changer for us, just wish it was possible to improve the roll to better than 4+.  

I do feel like Rogue Idols and/or Big Stabbas will become basically essential to get some rend with all the +1sv around now.

Mercenary SoB could be a good call too, anything to get some rend to deal with those good save non-monster units.

[Belmail]

I'm really worried about 2 things, that our front line is going to crumble now with a distinct lack of pumping up saves, since the shield is a modifier in melee 5+ is the best we get now which is a big swing down from 3+ rerolling 1s. The other thing is that I was kind of expecting us to go to 20 blocks of models since we are the "horde" orruk faction but we stayed at 10 so I am really worried a list is going to be like, 3-5 heroes, 30x2 arrowboys, 1-2 pig units, and then just MSU shield boys into the sunset and that feels pretty bad to me.

[AlmGandix3]

I did some calculations and if exploding 6s stack which I believe they do because of the designers commentary, boarboyz with spears in units of 10 and in iceborne deal nice point efficient damage. (Calculations with only 5pigs in range)

Also there is the curse prayer which our wardokks can get which gives us mortal wound on 6s versus 1 target which helps with high armor saves.

Big stabbas in MSU might also be quiet nice.

I will definitely try some lists with two 10 man units of boarboyz with spears.

I really don't like the horde buffs on units on foot triggering with 15 plus, since you basically need to reinforce them.

[bonzai]

4 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

Also there is the curse prayer which our wardokks can get which gives us mortal wound on 6s versus 1 target which helps with high armor saves.

I'll be damned. All these years and I never noticed that they were priests in addition to wizards. That means they also get bless and smite. Bless is kind of worthless in a Bonesplitters army, but being able to dance, cast a spell, and then smite is putting in a lot of work. 

What, where, and how are they getting this curse?

 

[AlmGandix3]

1 hour ago, bonzai said:

I'll be damned. All these years and I never noticed that they were priests in addition to wizards. That means they also get bless and smite. Bless is kind of worthless in a Bonesplitters army, but being able to dance, cast a spell, and then smite is putting in a lot of work. 

What, where, and how are they getting this curse?

 

As far as I know every priest can get one prayer either from the prayer "lore" from it's faction or from the new generic ones but don't quote me on that one. I don't know if this applies for factions without a prayer lore.

I'll look it up later

Enhancements are picked after you have chosen the battalions for your army (see 26.0). You can always take 1 enhancement of each type for your army, and the battalions or battlepack you are using may allow you to take additional enhancements for your army.

Each time you take a prayer scripture enhancement, you can pick 1 prayer for each Priest in your army from any of the prayer scriptures available to that Priest (you can pick different prayers from different prayer scriptures for different Priests). Each Priest knows the prayer that you picked for them in addition to the other prayers they know.

So yes we can get them

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by AlmGandix3
Looked it up

[bonzai]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:37 PM, AlmGandix3 said:

As far as I know every priest can get one prayer either from the prayer "lore" from it's faction or from the new generic ones but don't quote me on that one. I don't know if this applies for factions without a prayer lore.

I'll look it up later

Enhancements are picked after you have chosen the battalions for your army (see 26.0). You can always take 1 enhancement of each type for your army, and the battalions or battlepack you are using may allow you to take additional enhancements for your army.

Each time you take a prayer scripture enhancement, you can pick 1 prayer for each Priest in your army from any of the prayer scriptures available to that Priest (you can pick different prayers from different prayer scriptures for different Priests). Each Priest knows the prayer that you picked for them in addition to the other prayers they know.

So yes we can get them

 

 

Yup, get all that. That's why I said getting smite and to a lesser extent bless were a nice windfall. I just wasn't aware of any prayer lore's that Orruk Warclans had access to, let alone a "Curse prayer". It sounded handy, so I was curious where I could find it.

[AlmGandix3]

9 minutes ago, bonzai said:

Yup, get all that. That's why I said getting smite and to a lesser extent bless were a nice windfall. I just wasn't aware of any prayer lore's that Orruk Warclans had access to, let alone a "Curse prayer". It sounded handy, so I was curious where I could find it.

It's one of the 3 new generic prayers burning weapons might be pretty insane as well actually

[Yargar]

I hope we keep the wizard, and priest aspect on the wardokk. The curse prayer will work wonders with our many attacks, and the spells will come in handy.

[bonzai]

3 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

It's one of the 3 new generic prayers burning weapons might be pretty insane as well actually

Huh. The free 3.0 rules I downloaded only had bless and smite as generic prayers. Where are these other prayers?