AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[DerZauberer]

It's amazing how much drive this discussion got just because of some "simple" changes to Ironjawzs in the GHB.

Im really excited about the new changes and eager to try them out.

But: You guys think that the Fungoid can use the Ironjawz lore? Somehow i wish yes, but i think this lore is just legal for the weirdnob, but i'm not sure? Is there a consensus yet?

[PlasticCraic]

Nah he def can't. There's a very clear cut FAQ on that subject. 

[Imperial]

17 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Nah he def can't. There's a very clear cut FAQ on that subject. 

But we have mercenary system now  Necromant will use some lore spells

[Rock Lobster]

So for anyone who hasn't clocked onto them yet (and I imagine most people have), here are some obvious optional shenanigans from the new allegiance abilities etc you may want to try - some good, some bad:

• Brutefist for charge and fight in the hero phase
  • Highly inefficient because brutes are less efficient then ardboyz, you cannot go megabattalion and the battalions robs you of the speed of an ironfist.
  • However, since the brute fist allows you to charge in the hero phase for free, it allows you to charge with the brutes and inflict D3 mortal wounds per unit, then spend a command point to fight
  • Best combined with the death bringy dingy which can take 15 brutes 12" forward, you charge them out with cogs and pile in and fight in the hero phase, then in the combat phase you do it again. Hand of Gork is your 2nd unit of brutes flying in when combined with cogs for that sweet 6" charge. 30 brutes in your opponents grille can be highly amusing.
• Megaboss on mawkrusha with luminary rod and muscle bound brute (keeping in hysh for aetherquartz goodness).
  • Not the best build of megaboss, but potentially amusing.
  • You can pick this boy up and drop him down somewhere to charge in the hero phase. He will hit with 8 dice, 4+ for mortal wounds (av 4), D3 wounds from  muscle bound brute (av 6 now) and if you really want something to die or you see multiple support heroes you can spit out the luminary rod just before you roll you impact hits since you can do it any time. That is average 8 mortals, good chance you get to charge the next target and if they were also hit with the luminary rod (like fireslayers hanging around bezerkers) you will probably kill them too and continue being irritating.
  • The fun thin about this is because it is he hero phase you actually get a 2nd shot at his potentially when you stop moving.
  • Lets say you kill a hero and get stuck on the 2nd, you still get to do your innard bursting below and if they speed bump dies you can charge again - you can also clear the speedbump if you have offensive magic, you can also clear the speedbump if you have shooting.
  • The rampage can be good paired with some allies or mercenaries or spells that can pluck a couple of wounds off those characters to soften them up for a chain reaction of charges.
• Megaboss on mawkrusha of murderous deathand his variant, megaboss on Mawkrusha of that can actually survive a turn
  • Not very subtle this one, take Ironsunz and you get the D3 roll to see how many extra wounds and attacks your megaboss gets at the beginning of the game. Pair with the trait to reroll wound rolls on the charge and warchanter buff him for potentially 7 attacks, 2+ / 3+ RR / -3 / D2 and then waagh on top of that for the pain train to grow.
  • With the megaboss of murderous death, your main weapon will have between 5-7 attacks pre-waaagh, give him the rend-3 blade or +1 damage and go to work killing things.
  • The megaboss that can actually survive a turn benefits from his 14-17 wounds with the reroll 1s trait. With the ethereal amulet that is a sexy 3+ save reroll 1s always. Mortal wounds will make him fall over. Or go iganx scales to resist the mortal wounds but be subject to rend. The less costly to the rest of your army version of this would be the 5+ mortal wound save from Hysh since it lets you get broach still
• Ardboy teleport bomb
  • Ardboys have a natural +2 to charge with the banner, with ironjawz that is natural +3, with cogs that is +5. You send these boys in with the dead bridge, bringy dingy or hand of gork and even from 9" away you can have a 4" charge. They are a great unit to teleport.
  • Using this realistically even the very slow ardfist can make it into combat with the likes of the bridge

 

[BrocknerTheBear]

I've been on the fence about this army for a while but these new changes sound interesting. If they introduce an option for megaboss on gore grunta then I think I may just cave in.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Rock Lobster said:

Ardboy teleport bomb

• Ardboys have a natural +2 to charge with the banner, with ironjawz that is natural +3, with cogs that is +5. You send these boys in with the dead bridge, bringy dingy or hand of gork and even from 9" away you can have a 4" charge. They are a great unit to teleport.
• Using this realistically even the very slow ardfist can make it into combat with the likes of the bridge

 

Honestly this is the only strategy I think can be used to actually win games. You don't need cogs etc.

Hand of gork a block of 30, Ironfist for an extra d6" movement and you have a minimum 8" charge on +3, use it with bloodtoofs/Ironsunz, take first turn and pin him into his deployment zone with 60 wounds on a 4+ save.

Quote

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (420)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Bloodtoofs (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 176

Aim being to just erect a 9" bubble across the entire board and stop your opponent doing any sort of deepstriking/teleporting to get out of his deployment zone then win on objectives. Especially since you can now spend a CP to RR1's to save on a unit.

[Gothmaug]

So if anyone is interested, guerrila miniature games has a 2 part review of the GHB 2019 on their YouTube page.  If you pick review per 1, all the ironjawz material appears 1 hour 19 seconds in.

Looks like we get 6 spells in our spell lore, a total rework of our command abilities and artifacts. I did notice that ironclad now just lets the commander reroll saves of 1, instead of lowering rend. Oh and one of the spells allows units with 24” of the caster to reroll wounds iirc. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Gothmaug

[Rock Lobster]

42 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Honestly this is the only strategy I think can be used to actually win games. You don't need cogs etc.

Hand of gork a block of 30, Ironfist for an extra d6" movement and you have a minimum 8" charge on +3, use it with bloodtoofs/Ironsunz, take first turn and pin him into his deployment zone with 60 wounds on a 4+ save.

Aim being to just erect a 9" bubble across the entire board and stop your opponent doing any sort of deepstriking/teleporting to get out of his deployment zone then win on objectives. Especially since you can now spend a CP to RR1's to save on a unit.

You want to make sure you get another ironjawz unit and megaboss within waaagh range with that push. Blood toof will give auto pass with 3 units. On 18” distance not a problem, at 24” You may have to spend 2 points most likely to get megaboss and a gore grunta unit into range which would suck as it would leave you with 2-4 waaghs subject to broach, but that may be enough to be honest. Enemy hit by 30 ardboyz, megaboss and either 3 gruntas or 10 more ardboyz with plus 2 attacks each is pretty tasty.  You might even be fine taking the chance on longer charges as long as the megaboss is within range to waaagh the 30 ardboyz and some units will still trigger the ability even if not in combat to ensure you get the extra waaagh.

Depends what you roll for your ironfist, if it’s a 6 you could feasibly get a couple of charges off with gruntas.

 

[PlayerJ]

What are you guys using to make lists with updated points?
Thanks!

[Rock Lobster]

47 minutes ago, PlayerJ said:

What are you guys using to make lists with updated points?
Thanks!

Leaked points on the internet and in this forum a page or 2 back.

[Rock Lobster]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Honestly this is the only strategy I think can be used to actually win games. You don't need cogs etc.

Hand of gork a block of 30, Ironfist for an extra d6" movement and you have a minimum 8" charge on +3, use it with bloodtoofs/Ironsunz, take first turn and pin him into his deployment zone with 60 wounds on a 4+ save.

Aim being to just erect a 9" bubble across the entire board and stop your opponent doing any sort of deepstriking/teleporting to get out of his deployment zone then win on objectives. Especially since you can now spend a CP to RR1's to save on a unit.

Thinking about it, I might swap out 1 unit of boys for a 2nd warchanter and a cp. cp is so valuable and having the alpha striking 30 ardboyz hitting on 2s is really great.

[Andrew G]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

Honestly this is the only strategy I think can be used to actually win games. You don't need cogs etc.

Hand of gork a block of 30, Ironfist for an extra d6" movement and you have a minimum 8" charge on +3, use it with bloodtoofs/Ironsunz, take first turn and pin him into his deployment zone with 60 wounds on a 4+ save.

Aim being to just erect a 9" bubble across the entire board and stop your opponent doing any sort of deepstriking/teleporting to get out of his deployment zone then win on objectives. Especially since you can now spend a CP to RR1's to save on a unit.

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (420)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Bloodtoofs (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 176

This is a great list, really plays to what I think is good in IJ. This is basically what I was doing with the gorefist last GHB too, 1st turn pin w/ a bunch of 4+ save wounds with the ability to table if you win the initiative going into t2. I'd still bank all the CP for Waaagh! T2 and Battleshock Immunity T1 for the 30' ardboyz but that's just nitpicking.

Anyway, A+

Edited June 17, 2019 by Andrew G

[Malakree]

8 minutes ago, Andrew G said:

This is a great list, really plays to what I think is good in IJ. This is basically what I was doing with the gorefist last GHB too, 1st turn pin w/ a bunch of 4+ save wounds with the ability to table if you win the initiative going into t2. I'd still bank all the CP for Waaagh! T2 and Battleshock Immunity T1 for the 30' ardboyz but that's just nitpicking.

Anyway, A+

The point of the list is less to actually Waaagh! bomb your opponent and more to control the entire board and win on objectives. If you stop all sorts of teleport shenanigans then it cripples a whole ton of armies.

24 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

Thinking about it, I might swap out 1 unit of boys for a 2nd warchanter and a cp. cp is so valuable and having the alpha striking 30 ardboyz hitting on 2s is really great.

Eh tbh I view Ironjawz offensive potential as garbage. If you're going to win you need to do it outside of the combat phase because basically all combat armies will eat you. This is especially true since none of our buffs apply during a hero phase activation so you're just flailing uselessly or getting dominated by the activation wars...  If you're trying to Waaagh! bomb my Gloomspite army I'd just laugh as you sink it all into grots...

[Rock Lobster]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

The point of the list is less to actually Waaagh! bomb your opponent and more to control the entire board and win on objectives. If you stop all sorts of teleport shenanigans then it cripples a whole ton of armies.

Eh tbh I view Ironjawz offensive potential as garbage. If you're going to win you need to do it outside of the combat phase because basically all combat armies will eat you. This is especially true since none of our buffs apply during a hero phase activation so you're just flailing uselessly or getting dominated by the activation wars...  If you're trying to Waaagh! bomb my Gloomspite army I'd just laugh as you sink it all into grots...

True you won’t take them down, but I’m many cases you want to grind enough with the first hit to reduce the blowback turn 1 and keep your unit in the field longer. Most screens can dish out pain at full strength but deteriorate at Lower levels. A waaagh or 2 can take that unit down to the size they don’t benefit from +1 attack or +1 hit or wound etc. I think you probably do need to have a cp or 2 saved for inspiring presence for your turn to make sure the unit tanks their army a turn, potentially you keep 2 to tank your turn and theirs if anything survives, although I would probably just save the 1 and chance an aetherquartz since I would rather do some damage and most combat armies will slaughter that many wounds in their turn. Grisslegore would still be a problem with this as the general alone can kill half the unit and everything can fly over the ardboyz screen anyway.

if you do power up those ardboyz in some matches you will blowout the screens, get the double turn and get stuck into the meat of the army, tying it down or killing.

A cost effective approach with aetherquartz and the prophet of the waaagh if you start with the 4 cp is to not commit the megaboss and follow these steps:

1. Deploy with your ardboyz as a screen for your units, shaman out of unbind range (taking into account possible spellcaster movement first turn) but in range to hand of gork. You can choose to go first or 2nd, first gives you the chance to hit the enemy as they are and bottle them up, but risk being destroyed on a double turn. Going 2nd means at most they get 1 turn and you may get the double, risk is if they are smart they will fan out to deny hand of gork range meaning you have no choice but to hit the screens instead. Situation will determine the best course, consider the following:

A) hand of gork May not go off, if you go first hoping for it, are you screwed if it doesn’t and you get double tapped? You may want to consider going 2nd as the safer option. Kharadron overlords might be a good one for this, if they can shoot you for 2 turns it could be game over.

B) does the enemy have so much chaff that if they get a free move even a double turn won’t make it to the meat? Some skunk builds can do this, you may consider going first for the chance to trap them.

C) is the enemy alpha strike so devastating and would overwhelm your ardboyz striking first that the only chance you have is a Hail Mary first strike before their buffs etc. You may consider going first.

2. Double buff the ardboyz with war chanter. 

3. Hand of gork those suckers up into the enemies face.  if you fail hand of gork it is not the end of the world, if the enemy move forwards you may be able to shove them in their front line units face still so it’s not wasted, and your screen is still there so that is something.

4. Ironfist all units, ardboyz within 3-8” of enemy, meaning auto to 5” charge. If you roll high on this roll you may have the option to put another unit or 2 into combat if you do choose.

5. If the enemy stayed back, Hopefully you can run your megaboss to cover, close enough to inspiring presence or reroll charge on your ardboyz but for now out of danger range from most things. If you get a double turn he can sally forth. If the enemy is back cap all objectives in front of their deployment, if their screen advanced, blow up theirs screen and seize objectives. This has not used any cp so far so you have 4 in the bank.

6. 3 waaghs on the ardboyz from your hidden location, with aetherquartz you may on average get 1 back to bank 2, you will have at least 1. On average prophet of the waagh will give you attacks for those 3 waaaghs. That’s 6 attacks per ardboy with a great weapon and with the warchanter buffs average of 5 hits per boy. 4 boyz dish out 10 wounds at rend -1. That is a lot of solid dice to throw out. You can realistically engage 2 units of clanrats at the same time and kill them entirely in 1 turn, or cripple 3 units with attacks spread out that will likely die in the next turn.

this leaves enough gas in the tank for battleshock immunity or if the ardboyz survive better than hoped you can bring a mighty 2nd turn waagh x2 with the rest of your army  to roll them.

[PlasticCraic]

5 hours ago, Rock Lobster said:

So for anyone who hasn't clocked onto them yet (and I imagine most people have), here are some obvious optional shenanigans from the new allegiance abilities etc you may want to try - some good, some bad:

Really good post this one, a very helpful summary of a lot of the conversations from the last few days!

Good shout on Luminary Rod too, I'd been thinking the same thing about softening up 1 maybe 2 layers of enemies to keep the charges going.  And from the same Realm as the Brooche too, what's not to love!

Unfortunately we have probably lost our best shooting through Gitmob being removed from the Allies table (and potentially the whole game).  But there are other options, and I love the idea of a Super Smash Bros combo where twin Maw Krushas combo charge to keep each other going.

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

Honestly this is the only strategy I think can be used to actually win games. You don't need cogs etc.

I agree to an extent, but I think it's a bit of an overstatement.  A good player can probably go 3-2 quite consistently now with a variety of Ironjawz builds, whereas that was a pretty decent achievement under GH17 and GH18.  I'd agree that the Iron Blanket (Ardfist bomb) is certainly our best chance of winning more games though: I reckon 4-1 at a large tournament would be a realistic goal, and that's something that has only been achieved a handful of times by Ironjawz in 3+ years.

[Rock Lobster]

17 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Really good post this one, a very helpful summary of a lot of the conversations from the last few days!

Good shout on Luminary Rod too, I'd been thinking the same thing about softening up 1 maybe 2 layers of enemies to keep the charges going.  And from the same Realm as the Brooche too, what's not to love!

Unfortunately we have probably lost our best shooting through Gitmob being removed from the Allies table (and potentially the whole game).  But there are other options, and I love the idea of a Super Smash Bros combo where twin Maw Krushas combo charge to keep each other going.

I agree to an extent, but I think it's a bit of an overstatement.  A good player can probably go 3-2 quite consistently now with a variety of Ironjawz builds, whereas that was a pretty decent achievement under GH17 and GH18.  I'd agree that the Iron Blanket (Ardfist bomb) is certainly our best chance of winning more games though: I reckon 4-1 at a large tournament would be a realistic goal, and that's something that has only been achieved a handful of times by Ironjawz in 3+ years.

Double charge is a good shout there if you have 2 Krushas, I like that idea. Costs you 2 cp to charge them both but you can then nail little heroes for sure and get free t charge again in the charge phase and cause havoc. I can see that ruining someone’s day. If you have the magic to do some damage it’s not unreasonable to score a few wounds off bigger monsters like a vwrminlord and kill them.

for shooting you could use the ironweld dwarves as much as that bugs me. 3 organ guns for 360 points or 2 cannons and a cog smith for 380 points I would convert those from fantasy and 40k orky stuff. Those could be enough to free up the crushas for the charge phase. If you are looking to pre-damage in the hero phase it would probably be another wizard.

maybe skate or would work as he can cast maybe an endless spell to pick off wounds and his shooting attack does so also.

[Andrew G]

5 hours ago, Malakree said:

The point of the list is less to actually Waaagh! bomb your opponent and more to control the entire board and win on objectives. If you stop all sorts of teleport shenanigans then it cripples a whole ton of armies.

Eh tbh I view Ironjawz offensive potential as garbage. If you're going to win you need to do it outside of the combat phase because basically all combat armies will eat you. This is especially true since none of our buffs apply during a hero phase activation so you're just flailing uselessly or getting dominated by the activation wars...  If you're trying to Waaagh! bomb my Gloomspite army I'd just laugh as you sink it all into grots...

@Rock Lobster pretty much already answered. The Waaagh! bomb is to help the board control/pin with the upside of the ability to table w/ good aetherquartz and/or prophet rolls.  

I play GG too, and I would laugh my ass off if an IJ player took out my screens T1, won initiative going into T2 w/ CP in the bank and charges against my  60 stabba blocks and decided to use his CP to reroll 1's to save/ instead of Waaagh dump into the stabbers (which are at best -1 to hit in this scenario, if the IJ player takes the bottom of 1 he isn't going be in range to Itchy Nuisance/Geminids/Palisade debuff the 'ardboyz.) If you leave a 30 block entirely within 12" of the webspinner w/ sneaky distraction you're an idiot. 

So, one scenario (Waagh! dump) leaves me as the GG player with a severely weakened stabber block, forcing me to use the remaining one to deal with the '30 ardboyz surrounding the remaints of my army. The other scenario leaves me with an entirely healthy stabba block, who's bonus to wound is going outweigh any survivability benefit the 'ardboyz received from reroll 1's.  Basically, not waaagh! bombing allows them to escape the pin much,much easier.  It's a pretty clear cut choice.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Andrew G

[Rock Lobster]

22 minutes ago, Andrew G said:

@Rock Lobster pretty much already answered. The Waaagh! bomb is to help the board control/pin with the upside of the ability to table w/ good aetherquartz and/or prophet rolls.  

I play GG too, and I would laugh my ass off if an IJ player took out my screens T1, won initiative going into T2 w/ CP in the bank and charges against my  60 stabba blocks and decided to use his CP to reroll 1's to save/ instead of Waaagh dump into the stabbers (which are at best -1 to hit in this scenario, if the IJ player takes the bottom of 1 he isn't going be in range to Itchy Nuisance/Geminids/Palisade debuff the 'ardboyz.) If you leave a 30 block entirely within 12" of the webspinner w/ sneaky distraction you're an idiot. 

So, one scenario (Waagh! dump) leaves me as the GG player with a severely weakened stabber block, forcing me to use the remaining one to deal with the '30 ardboyz surrounding the remaints of my army. The other scenario leaves me with an entirely healthy stabba block, who's bonus to wound is going outweigh any survivability benefit the 'ardboyz received from reroll 1's.  Basically, not waaagh! bombing allows them to escape the pin much,much easier.  It's a pretty clear cut choice.

Thanks @Andrew G stated much more eloquently then i said. To do a really good job of bottling up the other army there has got to be enough teeth in the blocker that the opponent is worried that if they try to ignore it, move out of combat, move around, fly over etc and they might get lose control of it in their turn and the blocker will break lose and exact a heavy toll. Hence they will need to dedicate resources to killing them.

If you still have a full 60 grots you will simply leave that 1 unit in combat and everything else will move around he ardboyz and go hunting for the megaboss and smaller units since the ardboyz are unlikely to ever move again. If the ardboyz shred 40+ goblins and you are looking at a 20 goblin unit going into your combat phase, even if the odds are in your favor, that turn it is pretty hairy to run the risk of those ardboyz nabbing a unit kill in your turn and charging you again next turn - you will want to commit resources to holding them up or killing them.

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Andrew G said:

@Rock Lobster pretty much already answered. The Waaagh! bomb is to help the board control/pin with the upside of the ability to table w/ good aetherquartz and/or prophet rolls.  

I play GG too, and I would laugh my ass off if an IJ player took out my screens T1, won initiative going into T2 w/ CP in the bank and charges against my  60 stabba blocks and decided to use his CP to reroll 1's to save/ instead of Waaagh dump into the stabbers (which are at best -1 to hit in this scenario, if the IJ player takes the bottom of 1 he isn't going be in range to Itchy Nuisance/Geminids/Palisade debuff the 'ardboyz.) If you leave a 30 block entirely within 12" of the webspinner w/ sneaky distraction you're an idiot. 

So, one scenario (Waagh! dump) leaves me as the GG player with a severely weakened stabber block, forcing me to use the remaining one to deal with the '30 ardboyz surrounding the remaints of my army. The other scenario leaves me with an entirely healthy stabba block, who's bonus to wound is going outweigh any survivability benefit the 'ardboyz received from reroll 1's.  Basically, not waaagh! bombing allows them to escape the pin much,much easier.  It's a pretty clear cut choice.

Wait are we talking about giving up priority turn 1 or taking it? Honestly in that situation I'd give up the double turn in favour of getting the counter punch off at the bottom of turn 2 with the Waaagh! bomb. The 30 Ardboys are 100% expendable.

3 hours ago, Rock Lobster said:

If you still have a full 60 grots you will simply leave that 1 unit in combat and everything else will move around he ardboyz and go hunting for the megaboss and smaller units since the ardboyz are unlikely to ever move again. If the ardboyz shred 40+ goblins and you are looking at a 20 goblin unit going into your combat phase, even if the odds are in your favor, that turn it is pretty hairy to run the risk of those ardboyz nabbing a unit kill in your turn and charging you again next turn - you will want to commit resources to holding them up or killing them.

If they're going around your Ardboys on Turn 2 then you've done something wrong haha.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Malakree

[PlasticCraic]

6 hours ago, Rock Lobster said:

Double charge is a good shout there if you have 2 Krushas, I like that idea. Costs you 2 cp to charge them both but you can then nail little heroes for sure and get free t charge again in the charge phase and cause havoc. I can see that ruining someone’s day.

Yep, if you do kill someone with a Hero Phase charge you trigger Destructive Bulk there and then too.  It's not linked to the Charge Phase, so you can get extra charges going early and often!  For the same reason, it's possibly worth softening them up with magic first, rather than finishing off after.

Only thing to watch out for with the Luminary Rod is that On Da Rampage only triggers if Destructive Bulk itself does the damage to slay the unit you charged, and it happens "immediately".  So you can't complete your charge, see how you roll on DB and then decide whether or not you apply Luminary Rod - or you can, but you won't then get the chance to charge again immediately because On Da Rampage itself didn't kill them.

So you're either taking the calculated risk of using it before you charge, meaning you might not be perfectly efficient in terms of potentially over killing something, or you use it strategically (knocking the last wound or two off in your Hero Phase, to prevent you being bogged down and allowing you to move off and charge again; or the same thing after your shooting phase if you don't need to move before charging again, when you know what if any damage your breath attacks have done to the unit you are locked into).  

Still a really good tool if you are building for this combo, and it sounds hella fun!

[VonSmall]

Sounds like the lesson is 'make the most of the new while remembering the good bits of the old'

 

[Skumbaagh]

The last pages have had such a good content! Thank you a lot guys! 

I have one concern about ironfist and that is I believe there is a good chance/risk that ironfist will be FAQed to activate in the beginning of the hero phase due to movement shenanigas with teleport. Either way one teleported unit of ardboys will most likely roll a 5 to charge in most cases with a reroll. (with +4 to charge) 

On another note, as I read the rules for ironfist it seems like it cant only consist of ardboys due to the boss needing to be either a bruteboss or gore grunta boss (and that he needs to be alive). I suppose most people want to run at least one unit of gruntas either way - just a note thou as the rules says "any combination".

 

[Dingar]

DOPE! The WAAAGH hype rises once more!! Thumbing through the past couple of pages(and my collection) here's what I'm going to try running as I prepare for some events:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (420)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Bloodtoofs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 170

I know Brutes aren't as lucrative as our other Battleline now, but I love 'em and have so many lol.
I'm sad about dropping Iron Fist, as I've always ran it.  I'm hoping that airdropping 30 Ardboyz will give them time to get across the table and not have to rely on Iron Fist! 

[Malakree]

@Dingar the max unit ironfist is mandatory in both mega battalions.

[Andrew G]

 

 

 

 

3

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

Wait are we talking about giving up priority turn 1 or taking it? Honestly in that situation I'd give up the double turn in favour of getting the counter punch off at the bottom of turn 2 with the Waaagh! bomb. The 30 Ardboys are 100% expendable.

If they're going around your Ardboys on Turn 2 then you've done something wrong haha.

 You're going to take bottom of 1. Taking top of 1 and teleporting the 'ardboyz just allows the opposing player to deal with them in their turn 1,  freeing them completely going into T2 priority roll. Losing  ~1/4th of your army for 1 turn of objectives (if there's no middle  objectives T1 this is even worse) and killing off a screen is not a good exchange... 

 Lets assume you planned on taking bottom of T1, if you won the priority roll and choose to go second in T2... Sure, it's not the end of the world, the 'ardboyz are
"expendable" (funny perspective to have with a 420 point unit) but they're definitely not netting as much value or helping the pin to the same degree.  The opponent is going to clear the 'ardboyz (let's assume you perfectly boxed in his army and he wasn't able to wittle enough down to slip around the unit), where does that leave you going into IJ T2?  Like you mentioned, your army is mostly spread to deny hand of gork/deepstrike so you're really not in position for a devastating Waaagh! bomb and you've been admittingly spending CP on reroll 1's to save anyway. Not taking priority T2 doesn't accomplish anything, it's not unsalvagable position, but it's definitely the worse option.

Let's just compare expected board-states going into T3 priority roll:

Taking priority T2:
You've waaagh bombed w/ your 30 'ardboyz alive. You've probably cleared most of a 60 stabbas block, the other block was forced to deal with the 'ardboyz. Rest of your army is healthy, unengaged, and poised to capitalize on T3.

Choosing to give opponent priority T2:
You've lost the 30 'ardboyz top of T2, they probably weren't able to attack back. You waagh! bomb and send in... I'm guessing a few GGs, maybe the MK... remember your army is spread to deny hand of gork and you've been spending CP on reroll 1's to save; blunting the Waaagh! bomb. You'll be lucky to kill one of the 60 stabba blocks, and that's only if you commit the MK. Half the arrmy is probably locked down at this point and took damage in return (you're not going to be able to activate smashing and bashing.)