AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, Waaaaaaght? said:

I was looking at the warchanter ability, and the way its worded, it sounds like the extra damage is added at the end instead of changing the damage characteristic. 

Would this let me do more than 1 damage to Goterk? I know someone that has him in a fyreslayers army. This could be a major weakness to him.🤩

No on Gotreks warscroll it says.

If the damage inflicted by an attack....is greater than 1, change it to 1.

While the warchanter warscroll says

Add 1 to the damage inflicted by attacks made by melee weapons.

 

[Waaaaaaght?]

19 minutes ago, Malakree said:

No on Gotreks warscroll it says.

If the damage inflicted by an attack....is greater than 1, change it to 1.

While the warchanter warscroll says

Add 1 to the damage inflicted by attacks made by melee weapons.

 

Dang, that's what I thought, but I hoped against it. Gotrek is very hard to damage or kill. His main weakness is just to run from him, he is pretty slow.

[tom_gore]

About the upcoming orruk warband for Underworlds - I hope its warscroll brings a boost to Brutes in the army. Those poor green mean fighting machines are being replaced by Ardboys in almost all lists at the moment.

 

[Gothmaug]

3 hours ago, tom_gore said:

About the upcoming orruk warband for Underworlds - I hope its warscroll brings a boost to Brutes in the army. Those poor green mean fighting machines are being replaced by Ardboys in almost all lists at the moment.

 

Wouldn’t hold your breath. The underworld warscrolls always feel like an afterthought, kind of like tossing a bone to the AOS crowd. They could be planned better and a great way to introduce new heroes and such, but usually all you get is a self contained unit with very little synergy with the AOS army they link it to. 

[tom_gore]

2 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

Wouldn’t hold your breath. The underworld warscrolls always feel like an afterthought, kind of like tossing a bone to the AOS crowd. They could be planned better and a great way to introduce new heroes and such, but usually all you get is a self contained unit with very little synergy with the AOS army they link it to. 

Well there is hope. Grashnak's Despoilers is a great little toolkit for any chaos army and of course in BoC armies it can easily replace the vanilla shaman.

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, tom_gore said:

Well there is hope. Grashnak's Despoilers is a great little toolkit for any chaos army and of course in BoC armies it can easily replace the vanilla shaman.

Yes, there is hope.

[tom_gore]

By the way, don't know if anyone else noticed yet, but the idea of taking 5 x 1 Ardboys in an Ardfist in order to nuke them with Green Puke and get 10 man units back is illegal, because you cannot field understrength units in a battalion as per core book page 240.

 

[Jabbuk]

49 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

By the way, don't know if anyone else noticed yet, but the idea of taking 5 x 1 Ardboys in an Ardfist in order to nuke them with Green Puke and get 10 man units back is illegal, because you cannot field understrength units in a battalion as per core book page 240.

 

What does understrength mean? In regards to ardboys specifically.

[ShaneHobbes]

Is it viable to run two MBMK in a 2k game anymore?

[Malakree]

37 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Is it viable to run two MBMK in a 2k game anymore?

I did, it's awkward but not terrible. Gordrakk is amazing so if you run him as your secondary cabbage it gives you access to his vastly superior CA as well as his much better combat potential.

It's definitely tricky but doable.

Possibly something like this?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Gorefist (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 106

or

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Gorefist (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

Both are obviously alphastrike but lets be fair you're running 2 MK's and a block of 6 GG's. You could drop the 6 GG's but they are one of the massive backbones of the army right now.

If you did that you'd really be looking at an Ardfist with your cabbages supporting.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Malakree

[ShaneHobbes]

11 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I did, it's awkward but not terrible. Gordrakk is amazing so if you run him as your secondary cabbage it gives you access to his vastly superior CA as well as his much better combat potential.

It's definitely tricky but doable.

Did you run a battalion? Warchanters? I have a tournament in a couple weeks and I'm trying to see if i can work in two maw krushas into a list. 

[Malakree]

3 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Did you run a battalion? Warchanters? I have a tournament in a couple weeks and I'm trying to see if i can work in two maw krushas into a list. 

I ran this. 

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112

It was "ok" but there were definitely things I would change. In the previous post I added some "conceptual" changes with how I'd approach the list. In terms of fixing this one.

• Drop the Brutes
• Merge the 2 units of 3 GG's
• Make the unit of 5 Ardboys a unit of 10
• Buy a CP.

[Skumbaagh]

3 hours ago, tom_gore said:

By the way, don't know if anyone else noticed yet, but the idea of taking 5 x 1 Ardboys in an Ardfist in order to nuke them with Green Puke and get 10 man units back is illegal, because you cannot field understrength units in a battalion as per core book page 240.

 

A unit of 5 is not understrenghtened. It's just not battle line. 

Oh you mean 5 units or 1? Sure you are right, this have been discussed some pages back. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Skumbaagh

[Warmill]

11 hours ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Is it viable to run two MBMK in a 2k game anymore?

I've  been testing a 2 cabbage army recently, mostly for fun but it's proving to be a hell of a lot of fun and putting up a good showing against our local fec and dok players. Only a few games in but I think there's some good potential with it. I will say that I've been running them as big waagh as I've been finding the 2+2+ a big help to reduce those moments when the krushas completely whiff, and the 6++ has  been an absolute godsend. 2 free MDs seems to be more than enough so I just end up using CPs for rr1s.

 

My list currently is;

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

Once I've got some more ardboyz built I'm going to try swapping one unit of pigs for 2 x 5 ardboyz for backfield objective holding. The extra 2" from fast un is awesome for getting the glass cannon where he needs to be, I'm also testing swapping a chanter for a weirdnob but to he honest the extra damage feels way better, and even in a game of scorched earth last night I didn't feel like I needed hand of gork. There's no denying that I'm short on bodies and objective play is tough but you know, waaagh and all that! 🤣

[tom_gore]

19 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

What does understrength mean? In regards to ardboys specifically.

Meaning running less than 5 ardboys in a unit.

[ShaneHobbes]

11 hours ago, Warmill said:

I've  been testing a 2 cabbage army recently, mostly for fun but it's proving to be a hell of a lot of fun and putting up a good showing against our local fec and dok players. Only a few games in but I think there's some good potential with it. I will say that I've been running them as big waagh as I've been finding the 2+2+ a big help to reduce those moments when the krushas completely whiff, and the 6++ has  been an absolute godsend. 2 free MDs seems to be more than enough so I just end up using CPs for rr1s.

 

My list currently is;

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

Once I've got some more ardboyz built I'm going to try swapping one unit of pigs for 2 x 5 ardboyz for backfield objective holding. The extra 2" from fast un is awesome for getting the glass cannon where he needs to be, I'm also testing swapping a chanter for a weirdnob but to he honest the extra damage feels way better, and even in a game of scorched earth last night I didn't feel like I needed hand of gork. There's no denying that I'm short on bodies and objective play is tough but you know, waaagh and all that! 🤣

As someone whose also a fan of Big Waagh I think I'll try this out or something similar, thanks for the feedback

[Skumbaagh]

Woho! My list for the tournament Krigsluntan in Stockholm this coming weekend got a mentioning on the Honest Wargamer.

Here it is:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 155

Its about teleporting (and summoning with some luck) units on the other side of the table and countercharging with +5 to charge. 

[Heaven_lord]

Hey,

What do you think of this list for 1000 pts games (single and doubles) ?

MBMC
Warchanter
Fungoid cave shaman
10 Ardboys
3 Gore Gruntas

Thanks !

[Malakree]

So at chrimbobo playing doubles with Jon and Jonny. Playing what I've nicknamed a "softfist" basically an ardfist which isn't trying to go super exploitative.

With it being 1k I'm a bit short on CPs but it's actually been way more useful than I thought it would be. With that in mind I'm looking at running a bit of an odd 2k list at the next club night and/or whenever my next tournament is.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: HoG/Bash Em

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)
Gorefist (130)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

Starts with an enormous 4 CPs and has the generation potential from the weirdnob, not sure which spell to take with him. Wrath of Gork gives so horrific MW output potential, hand of gork let's me throw a unit of 5 across the board turn 1 and gives the ever useful teleport. Finally bash em ladz for  the wound reroll seems potentially solid. In all honesty though he's mainly there to put mystic shield on the cabbage 😅

Gorefist over Ironfist purely for points reasons, even dropping to a fungoid doesn't give me the ironfist and at least on the first turn it "acts" like 3 free Mighty Destroyers.

5 drops, 3 artefacts, 2 WC along with the cabbage+6ggs. Honestly seems really solid to me and the ardfist is yet another tool in the box, your opponent has to worry about so many different tech pieces that it's unreasonable.

Throw in the 5 OR 6 command points on turn 1, free 9" move on the GGs which can be stacked with mighty destroyers (?) and holy gods do I love aetherquartz broach!

Edited November 23, 2019 by Malakree

[DanteeChaos]

I decided to write an email to aosfaq@gwplc.com  asking for rule clarifications regarding Get Da Realmgate (Bloodtoofs command trait) and Drawn to the Waaagh! (Ardfist battalion).

Quote

Hello,

I have 2 questions regarding the new Orruk Warclans battletome that were not addressed in the errata:

1. Get Da Realmgate (Bloodtoofs command trait) - this command trait makes no sense since you can't buy Baleful Realmgates with points. In a tournament setting, a player does not choose terrain pieces so in a huge majority of cases there won't be a single Baleful Realmgate on the battlefield which makes this command trait useless. Are you planing on addressing this issue?

2. Drawn to the Waaagh! (Ardfist battalion) - after successfully rolling a 4+ and placing a 10-man Ardboy unit on the battlefield, can the player spend additional command points to attempt to use this ability again?

Regards

I got an automatic reply saying that they don't reply to individual emails but will consider answering the questions in the next errata. This makes me believe that the more times a question gets asked the more likely it is to get addressed. If you want to see clarifications to these rules, consider sending them an email with similar questions.

[Arkahn]

@Malakree I played almost the same list in a team tournament, but clan less to make my MK more tanky w/ Ignax scale and without a weirdnob, I found it less attractive for few reasons... you have a lot of CPs you can use to mystic shield, HoG is not needed because of your high mobility and it's one more drop...

But I will try your list for sure, maybe with wrath of Mork, we lack sniping on key target behind a screen... 

Aetherquartz might help too ! 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Arkahn

[Malakree]

6 hours ago, Arkahn said:

Aetherquartz might help too ! 

Aetherquartz is mandatory in IJ IMO.

6 hours ago, Arkahn said:

but clan less to make my MK more tanky w/ Ignax scale

I just find ironsunz to be so amazing, -1 To hit in the first round is great given the amount of shooting/alphastrike floating around atm. Free CP for the aetherquartz engine and the reduce rend really help aswell.

6 hours ago, Arkahn said:

without a weirdnob, I found it less attractive for few reasons... you have a lot of CPs you can use to mystic shield, HoG is not needed because of your high mobility and it's one more drop...

Yeah except it's for a whole turn not just 1 phase and let's be real we need all the cps we can get!

6 hours ago, Arkahn said:

But I will try your list for sure, maybe with wrath of Mork, we lack sniping on key target behind a screen... 

That's what I thought!

[broche]

Played that list yesterday at a local event (24 players)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138
 

Went 2-1 (Loosing game 2 against Slaneesh with 1-2 minor mistake, a a bit of bad luck).

I had a bit of subotimal choice namely the 10 brutes instead of 15 ardboys wich really fit this list better (speed up Waaagh point and need the +2 charge when teleporting) but I was missing some Standart bearer and shield, (and  I love the Brutes model  )

I went for Metalrippa claw for fear of the 3 Bonereaper in the tournament, wich in retrospective was a mistake.  Not that rend 3 is bad, but i would really have wanted Etheral Amulet as it drasticly increase it's survavibility (specially with the 6++)

But overall i really like the Big waaagh. I didn't really miss Smash and Bash , as an army wide 6++, +1 to hit / +1 to wound  is much better in the end.

 

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, broche said:

But overall i really like the Big waaagh. I didn't really miss Smash and Bash , as an army wide 6++, +1 to hit / +1 to wound  is much better in the end.

Having just finished chrimbobo with 2 more games as big waaagh! and an actual nights sleep where I wasn't woken up at 2am by someone in the room next door getting phone calls....

• I'm not sure I'd run an MK in Big Waaagh! the army feels way more about grinding than it does about the heavy impact type characters/units. 
• I took a Footboss with Ironclad+Mirrored Cuirass, holy gods did he do work. He soaked an entire combat phase worth of attacks from Gotrek and only took 6 damage. Getting to a 1+ save with mystic shield and mystical is unreal.
• The Wurrgog is fantastic, 2 casts/unbinds is sweet. His unique spell is gross when you start adding +2 from the CA and with 20 Waaagh! points he's actually a bit of a beast in combat. 4 attacks 3+/2+/-/d3 AND d3 at 3+/2+/-/1 is so nasty.
• It's actually a bit tricky to generate Waaagh! points if you don't factor that in. I was only getting 5 (WC/WgP/20 CA) ontop of my d6, when I rolled low it really stung.
• Ardboys
• Not being CA heavy is nice, sure the Ardfist is a drain but I could easily chuck them on RR1s CA etc.

So after 5 more games with it I think the problem I had was that it's a completely different playstyle to Ironjawz. Ironjawz is a shockforce, you hit stuff hard and blow them off the board. Big Waaagh! on the other hand is a meat grinder, it goes into combat then goes the distance all while churning out a reliable amount of attacks.

I'm also really warming to the Softfist, it's a threat your opponent has to deal with and can potentially drown your opponent under the continual waves. I can see it being good in Ironjawz but it's horrific in Big Waaagh! That footboss though, 1+ save while in cover, RR1's with a 6++ after save and another 5++ vs mortals is just nightmare to deal with, I'm seriously thinking he might be the default general of choice for all big waaagh! armies.

[ShaneHobbes]

I'm thinking of trying something a bit more Zappy for my next tournament in December. 

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Mighty 'Eadbutt
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137
 

I wish I had more than 30 Ardboyz.  Also I really wish I had a Warrdok for this list.

I'm also debating between War Cry or the +1 save spell on the Wurrgog for the Idol.