AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Carlos]

Hi,

I play with Ironjawz, but I have some questions about general handbook 2019.

The firts one is about the Allegiance Abilitie: Smashing and Bashings.

- How many i can use this abilitie in a combat phace ??

- For example, whith the Unit A destroyed an enemy unit and i select another friendly unit for atack and also destroyed another enemi unit, i can used abilitie again?

The other is about de Battalion: Bloodtoof:

- The Get Da Realmgate!, says "In addition, if there are any Baleful Realmgate terrain features on the battlefield, each unit from this battalion counts as 2 units for the purposes of Zogbak Realmrippa’s Mighty Waaagh ability". So this says when i use Mighty Waaagh ability, one ironjawz unit is considerate how 2 units instead of one, but this considerate is only for count unit?? or also every unit has 1 atacks more apart of ability, for exalple, i have 5 unit and rolls dice is 3, so i have 1 atack, but if is real i say previosly, in total are 2 atacks.

Thaks for all.

[PlasticCraic]

Hi Carlos,

1) Smashing and Bashing just keeps going and going until you fail to kill a unit.  There is no limit to the number of times.  If you trigger the condition, you keep going.

2) Bloodtoofs affects how you count your units, but not what you rolled.  You still need to roll a 6 to get 2 attacks - it just makes it harder to roll under and fail completely.

So if you have 3 units in range and roll a 5 normally, Roll of 5 > 3 Units and your Waaagh would fail.

But if you have 3 units and roll a 5 in Bloodtoofs , 5 < (3*2) = 6 Units and your Waaagh would succeed.  

To get 2 extra attacks in Bloodtoofs, you essentially need to have 3+ units in range and roll a 6.

Hope that helps!

Edited June 28, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[Malakree]

4 hours ago, Carlos said:

Hi,

I play with Ironjawz, but I have a question about the Allegiance Abilitie: Smashing and Bashings.

- How many i can use this abilitie in a combat phace ??

- For example, whith the Unit A destroyed an enemy unit and i select another friendly unit for atack and also destroyed another enemi unit, i can used abilitie again?

Thank.

 

You can use it whenever you destroy a unit. So there are situations where you can activate your entire army before they get to activate their first unit.

[daviseford]

Hey guys, just updated AoS Reminders with the latest GHB2019 rules for Ironjawz!

[Malakree]

So playing two ironjawz at whw doubles.

The hand of Gork spell is an absolute game changer. Being able to teleport a big block of Ardboys is massive.

Equally the smashing and bashing attack in the hero phase allows you to try and kill off tarpits before the movement phase letting you get onto the important stuff.

Ardfist with 100 ardboys or a mega battalion with 30 ardboys is going to be pretty dirty. Not sure if it's top tables but definitely solid in the mids.

[Jabbuk]

Hey guys, thought I'd post my very first 500 pts army of AoS ever. Ironjawz. Still need to base them though. I know the setup isn't totally optimal with new point changes but I really like the Shaman onwards to 1000 pts.

[Arkahn]

22 minutes ago, Malakree said:

So playing two ironjawz at whw doubles.

Equally the smashing and bashing attack in the hero phase allows you to try and kill off tarpits before the movement phase letting you get onto the important stuff. 

It works during the hero phase too !? 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Arkahn

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Arkahn said:

It works during the hero phase too !? 

Sorry mighty destroyers it's fricking hot and my brain is fried. 

But yeah 2-1, just ruined a pair with brutish cunning stopping all the charges then removing models to drop combat on the big stuff 😆 good to know I've not lost my touch with them.

[ShaneHobbes]

Does anyone know how Slaanesh Locusts and Mighty Destroyers work when coming together?

[Malakree]

8 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Does anyone know how Slaanesh Locusts and Mighty Destroyers work when coming together?

They don't. Mighty destroyers triggers in the hero phase while the slannesh loci make you attack at the end of the combat phase.

If you mean smashing and bashing, it overrides the loci so you can ignore it to trigger the unit.

[ShaneHobbes]

4 minutes ago, Malakree said:

They don't. Mighty destroyers triggers in the hero phase while the slannesh loci make you attack at the end of the combat phase.

If you mean smashing and bashing, it overrides the loci so you can ignore it to trigger the unit.

****** meant smashing and bashing yeah. People dont seem to be able to give a straight answer about it, especially in my local gaming group. 

[Malakree]

Just now, ShaneHobbes said:

****** meant smashing and bashing yeah. People dont seem to be able to give a straight answer about it, especially in my local gaming group. 

So smashing and bashing just says pick an ironjawz unit and activate. It doesn't care when you WOULD activate just that it still has a spare activation in that combat phase. The end of the combat phase is still the combat phase so smashing and bashing overrides it.

There is also an faq which says that when two rules abilities directly contradict each other the one which was applied last takes priority. So the loci is applied at the start of the combat phase, then smashing and bashing triggers, you select the unit, the two contradict and S&B was applied after the loci so it takes priority and the unit activates.

Basically no matter how you spin the rules smashing and bashing lets you ignore the loci.

[Slandible]

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

So smashing and bashing just says pick an ironjawz unit and activate. It doesn't care when you WOULD activate just that it still has a spare activation in that combat phase. The end of the combat phase is still the combat phase so smashing and bashing overrides it.

There is also an faq which says that when two rules abilities directly contradict each other the one which was applied last takes priority. So the loci is applied at the start of the combat phase, then smashing and bashing triggers, you select the unit, the two contradict and S&B was applied after the loci so it takes priority and the unit activates.

Basically no matter how you spin the rules smashing and bashing lets you ignore the loci.

I would certainly like for it to get around fight last mechanics, but I do not see the steps to how that would work.  IS there any breakdown as to why that would get around fight last?

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Slandible said:

I would certainly like for it to get around fight last mechanics, but I do not see the steps to how that would work.  IS there any breakdown as to why that would get around fight last?

So basically it comes down to the exact wordings of both abilities.

Locus of diversion says "...fights at the end of the next combat phase." And "...would allow them to fight at the start of the next combat phase..."

Smashing and bashing on the other hand says "...that has not yet fought in the combat phase can fight, instead of doing so later in the phase." So the only condition here is that the unit hasn't fought.

Smashing and bashing doesn't care when in the combat phase you "should" activate, only that you haven't done so yet. As an example, if you use the hysh command ability to activate an ironjawz unit at the start of the combat phase then wipe a unit out. You can still trigger smashing and bashing despite the fact it's the start of the combat phase and nothing else should be able to activate in the start.

Essentially smashing and bashing ignores and takes precedent over all other sequencing rules.

[mikethefish]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:27 PM, Carlos said:

Hi,

I play with Ironjawz, but I have a question about the Allegiance Abilitie: Smashing and Bashings.

- How many i can use this abilitie in a combat phace ??

- For example, whith the Unit A destroyed an enemy unit and i select another friendly unit for atack and also destroyed another enemi unit, i can used abilitie again?

Thank.

 

Yes.  You can keep activating your units as long as you keep destroying enemy units.

[Skumbaagh]

I have been thinking about a wound heavy ardfist list for a long while. Focus on board control and trying to make quality attacks with a few waagh, + to hit and rerolls of wounds. Artefacts would be mortal wound saves. Keeping the warchanter way back and then teleporting him were redeploys would be most needed in the endgame. The general could be teleported forward for waagh and reroll wounds with added range from the balewind if necessary in the second or third turn. Balewind also gives him better save. Teleporting the 30 boys is mandatory of course. 

List also would give a lot of minor wins to submarine up the tournament ladder. It is 5 drops for a good chance att choosing who goes first, gives an extra CP and a trophy and have got 200 wounds with 4+ save.

Downside one needs to paint 90 ardboys and the opponent may not enjoy the game very much. 

My biggest concern is that the boys are kind of pillow fisted. Making their attacks better in other ways would be nice. 

Whats your thoughts?

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! 
- Spell: Bash 'Em Ladz
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Spell: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
30 x Orruk Ardboys (420)
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
Ardfist (160)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 204
 

[Malakree]

So played ironjawz at the doubles this weekend. Went 4-1 including beating down a daughters+idoneth team in game 5.

Hand of Gork is exactly as strong as you would think it is.

Mighty Destroyers is disgustingly strong. In some lists it's going to be more important than the waaagh!

The ability to guarantee a hero phase move is so strong, catapult double cabbage across the board and have them engage turn 1. Additionally being able to clean off a trash screen pinning your powerful units is enormous. It stops your opponent tarpitting properly.

I could see either my weirdcabbage list or something like this being a top table competitor.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Brutish Cunning 
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
- Spell: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Spell: Bash 'Em Ladz
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Spell: Power of Da Waaagh!
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Bloodtoofs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 138

1 drop with the 20 ardboy teleport to pin and setup the turn 2 waaagh! Bomb.

EDIT: The weirdcabbage list.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Spell: 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)

Battalions
Weirdfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
 

Also don't forget the three new universal command abilities which let you reroll 1s to hit/save for a combat phase. It's the first time IJ has a rr1s to hit for cabbages.

You could also drop the fungoid and cp to get a second weirdnob with bash em lads and upgrade 10 ardboys to brutes.

Turn 1. Balewind, bash em lads, hand of Gork the weirdnob then double mighty destroyers to throw both MK's across the board. 2 cabbages with rrwounds moving 24" then charging turn 1. Doppelganger the cabbage and you could comfortably knockout a gristlgheist.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Malakree

[Lanoss]

Like this idea! There are heaps of fun new builds for IJs now I love it!

Unfortunately, with your tactic, Bash Em Lads only works for units wholly within 12” when they attack. Or have I read it wrong?

[Skumbaagh]

Also teleporting the Weirdnob for bash em Lads would require another Weirdnob. 

What malakree suggested is that the Weirdnob pops the balewind and bash spell while out of range for dispell, and the another Weirdnob teleports him in range for bash to work. A very smart move indeed. Since if the spell doesn't go off then there is no use teleporting him anyway which is another positive thing with executing the spells in that order. Very kunning malakree! I am puzzled thou if it is possible to teleport a balewind. 

[Malakree]

2 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said:

Also teleporting the Weirdnob for bash em Lads would require another Weirdnob. 

What malakree suggested is that the Weirdnob pops the balewind and bash spell while out of range for dispell, and the another Weirdnob teleports him in range for bash to work. A very smart move indeed. Since if the spell doesn't go off then there is no use teleporting him anyway which is another positive thing with executing the spells in that order. Very kunning malakree! I am puzzled thou if it is possible to teleport a balewind. 

• So first weirdnob, the one in the weirdfist, pops the balewind.
• The second weirdnob then casts bash em lads, this gives him the +2 to cast for 20 Orruks and potentially puts him out of unbind range.
• The first weirdnob then uses the second cast from the balewind to teleport the second weirdnob across the board.

End result

1. A weirdfist weirdnob with "hand of gork" on a balewind
2. A second weirdnob with an active "bash em lads" across the board 9" from the enemy

[Skumbaagh]

I didn't think of the weirdfist... 

I'd rather use the balewind for a bigger bubble of rerolling wounds.. The foot doesn't help much and keeping that much stuff back with the balewind to get a heavier foot off isn't worth it either. 

[Carlos]

14 hours ago, mikethefish said:

Yes.  You can keep activating your units as long as you keep destroying enemy units.

Thanks!!👍👍

[Carlos]

On 6/27/2019 at 11:15 PM, PlasticCraic said:

Hi Carlos,

1) Smashing and Bashing just keeps going and going until you fail to kill a unit.  There is no limit to the number of times.  If you trigger the condition, you keep going.

2) Bloodtoofs affects how you count your units, but not what you rolled.  You still need to roll a 6 to get 2 attacks - it just makes it harder to roll under and fail completely.

So if you have 3 units in range and roll a 5 normally, Roll of 5 > 3 Units and your Waaagh would fail.

But if you have 3 units and roll a 5 in Bloodtoofs , 5 < (3*2) = 6 Units and your Waaagh would succeed.  

To get 2 extra attacks in Bloodtoofs, you essentially need to have 3+ units in range and roll a 6.

Hope that helps!

Thanks!!👍👍

[Malakree]

8 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

I didn't think of the weirdfist... 

I'd rather use the balewind for a bigger bubble of rerolling wounds.. The foot doesn't help much and keeping that much stuff back with the balewind to get a heavier foot off isn't worth it either. 

The point was to illustrate a situation, and list, for which the Mighty Destroyers CA would be more important than the Waaagh!

It's also a list which I ran for a while and went 3-2 with at chrimbobo (even if I was a wreck my first game on stream).

[tolstedt]

19 hours ago, Malakree said:

1 drop with the 20 ardboy teleport to pin and setup the turn 2 waaagh! Bomb.

 

Did you find the 20 was enough to hold for two combat phases?  Are you letting the opponent take first turn or are you taking first turn?  
I've been putting 30 in my list and am unsure if it is needed or if 20 is enough.

Also, super thrilled someone else loves brutish cunning as much as I do.  I think it should be an innate ability on the megaboss scrolls.