Malakree Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, broche said: adding 10-20 boingrots to a force you already have is not the same as starting a whole new army. I think adding 10-20 boingrots to IJ is a competitive choice, and can be a first step if you want to play Gloompite Gitz. Gloompsite require much more than 20 bounderz (like 120 foot goblins let say) No idea what you're talking about. Allegiance: Gloomspite GitzLeadersLoonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)- General- Moon-cuttaMadcap Shaman (80)Battleline6 x Squig Herd (70)6 x Squig Herd (70)6 x Squig Herd (70)Units10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 206 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingar Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Malakree said: Since this doesn't require either the GG's or the Boingrots it lets you try out the base of the list before you make your choice. Wow! That's a stellar list!! And I can totally run it now without investing in GGs or BBs. I hadn't ever really considered the Bloodtoofs battalion. Does the Realmgate cost extra points or does the battalion cover that? Either way, I will definitely run this list soon against some friends! I have a Maw Krusha with Gordrakk on it! Too bad bits for that unit aren't too popular. I'd love to magnetize him and trade out with a regular megaboss for occasions like this. Thank yall for the conversation. Really helpful and fun! edit: Quote No idea what you're talking about. lmao Edited March 6, 2019 by Dingar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Dingar said: Wow! That's a stellar list!! And I can totally run it now without investing in GGs or BBs. I hadn't ever really considered the Bloodtoofs battalion. Does the Realmgate cost extra points or does the battalion cover that? Either way, I will definitely run this list soon against some friends! Realmgate is free with the battalion. If you go to a tournament you need to bring your own but against friends I'd just agree to hand wave and assume its on the board if you don't have one. Definitely useful to invest in if you intend to start going to tournaments, a fair few of them ask you to bring your own terrain pieces. I'm currently up to 4 realmgates, put them on a 140mm circular base to help define where the "terrain" starts, need another 4 so I can finish my 8 realms collection! Quote I have a Maw Krusha with Gordrakk on it! Too bad bits for that unit aren't too popular. I'd love to magnetize him and trade out with a regular megaboss for occasions like this. Thank yall for the conversation. Really helpful and fun! Honestly it doesn't matter for 99% of tournaments, a lot of people use him as a normal Cabbage because they prefer the model. It comes down to the classic "make sure you're clear with your opponent at the start and there shouldn't be issues". I faced a well known/ranked IJ player at Sheffield slaughter who was using Big G as a normal Megaboss and there were no issues with it. 1 hour ago, Dingar said: Thank yall for the conversation. Really helpful and fun! Lets be real, the majority of people on here are fanatics who just love their army and the game! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanoss Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) How about just ALL Brutes? Edited March 6, 2019 by Lanoss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzgurbel Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Maybe I have discovered America in a glass of water (it's a spaniard saying, it means that you have discovered something that everybody knows), but I really like the idea of the Boss Klaw/Brute Smasha spam + Waaagh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I would kind if like to include more allied shooting in my lists, in an effort to be more well-rounded, but I am hitting a few snags. Moonclan shooting = garbage. Gitmob shooting? Somewhat problematic. Warmachines are great, but thanks to the Allies restrictions (one allied unit per four Ironjawz units), I can't really take as many as I would like to. Goblin archers are possible, but I am concerned about Gitmob being phased out eventually. Also the models suck Greenskins shooting? Same concerns as Gitmob. Bonesplittas archers are pretty boss. Problem is again the Allies rules - this time the points restrictions. My standard game only let's me take 400 pts of Allies. This means I can only bring 20 of them. With a unit of that size, if it suffers one single casualty, then everyone remaining in the unit loses a shot. This seems like a tough blow. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? In a related issue, I really hope we see some sort of Ironjawz javelin throwers (or whatever) when our new book comes out someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 @mikethefish you just summed my analysis. a pack of 30 arrowboys would be great, but cost 420. I think right now best choice is Troll. Their range is low (12 - 18'') but they are a great unit overall for their cost. I drafted a list with more shooting couple page ago. They goal was basically to have just enough shooting to trigger double charge from Maw Krusha. If you want to fill the range issue of ironjawz, it's more with spell either with Weirdfist or just a Weirnob with a Geminid or Quicksilver sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, broche said: @mikethefish you just summed my analysis. a pack of 30 arrowboys would be great, but cost 420. I think right now best choice is Troll. Their range is low (12 - 18'') but they are a great unit overall for their cost. I drafted a list with more shooting couple page ago. They goal was basically to have just enough shooting to trigger double charge from Maw Krusha. If you want to fill the range issue of ironjawz, it's more with spell either with Weirdfist or just a Weirnob with a Geminid or Quicksilver sword Yeah I was thinking my ranged attacks would probably have to be whatever spells I can churn out. Unfortunate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikethefish said: Yeah I was thinking my ranged attacks would probably have to be whatever spells I can churn out. Unfortunate If you're going for ranged options it's 2 gitmob spear chukkas. That's my next test list. That and wizards with endless spells, really tempted to put the purple sun in just because. Oh and a gloomspite wizard with their endless spells is also an option. Edited March 7, 2019 by Malakree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Malakree said: If you're going for ranged options it's 2 gitmob spear chukkas. That's my next test list. I like all of the gitmob artillery warscrolls. I do wish they did not have to be fielded in identical pairs to get the various show-off bonuses. It would be nice if the trigger for those was simply another Gitmob artillery unit rather than an identical one. I would like to be able to field 2 different ones, or even a battery of all 3. Although sadly I am not sure how long Gitmob will remain in the game. Edited March 7, 2019 by Skabnoze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Skabnoze said: I like all of the gitmob artillery warscrolls. I do wish they did not have to be fielded in identical pairs to get the various show-off bonuses. It would be nice if the trigger for those was simply another Gitmob artillery unit rather than an identical one. the problem with artillery is for their cost, you can't even cover 2 spot of the board. So you're basically stuck with 200+ pts. It's not to big of a problem in the scenario with mid-field objective, but horrible in the other. I don't see much incentive of playing gitmob artillery over at weirdfist currently unfortunatly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, broche said: the problem with artillery is for their cost, you can't even cover 2 spot of the board. So you're basically stuck with 200+ pts. It's not to big of a problem in the scenario with mid-field objective, but horrible in the other. I don't see much incentive of playing gitmob artillery over at weirdfist currently unfortunatly... Well placed arti will cover a reasonable amount. The big problem with the weirdfist is how unreliable and restrictive it is. Sometimes it wins you the game, sometimes you can't get Gork to stomp twice. Edit: I think the next list im going to try is this. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)- General- Trait: Ironclad - Artefact: Ignax's Scales Orruk Megaboss (140)- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Orruk Warchanter (80)Battleline30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (180)- Jagged Gore-hackas3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)- Pig-iron ChoppasWar MachinesGrot Spear Chukka (120)- AlliesGrot Spear Chukka (120)- AlliesBattalionsWeirdfist (180)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 240 / 400Wounds: 160 I've really missed my block of 30 ardboys, it's just so good. It gives me the weirdfist and 2 spear chukkas, a good amount of wounds. Only problem is that I'm limited to a single hammer block. Unlike traditional weirdfists I'm not stationary however, losing the balewind hurts for the 2nd cast but honestly I found it hurt me as often as it helped, it's an extra spell which can fail or be unbound. The massive base size and inability to move also makes him an even bigger target than normal. Additionally I have one footboss who is an absolute tank, for games where it matters he is going to be a nightmare to get off objectives. With mystic shield and cover it's 2+ reroll 1s reduce rend by 1 with a 4++ vs mortals and look out sir! the second one is then far more mobile due to the thermalrider cloak which makes him a legitimate assassination threat. What attracts me most is the level of reach, having 3 different ranged threats combined with the flying footboss. In the current metagame it's so important to be able to get past a screen and at your enemies core heroes. Whether that's a death hero, wizards, support heroes like the ordinatior or even things like celestial balista. it also drops the cabbage which, while it makes me sad, is so damn expensive and more often than not just gets neutered before anything major happens. If I consider heat 1, two of them bounced off a wall of goblins, got shot/murdered by celestial balista and evocators, cleaned up a death army which had been decimated by foot of Gork, one died to celestial balista (ironically the only one my general pulled his weight) then got nurgled off the board with mortals. I'm not sold on the footbosses, I think even they might be overcosted, but there's a difference between 20 points to much and 120-140 points to much. The pair of them are a concession to the current battleplans, especially the tanked up footboss. Will see how it goes. Edited March 7, 2019 by Malakree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, Malakree said: Well placed arti will cover a reasonable amount I meant you can't split them without loosing the bonus (like reroll to hit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, broche said: I meant you can't split them without loosing the bonus (like reroll to hit). Realistically the weirdfist is worse, it requires a minimum of 1k points all with toes inside a single 10" area. For the same cost you could field 4 pairs of bolt throwers and have them all over the place. Ironjawz are just to expensive atm to properly cover more than 2 objectives on most battleplans anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstedt Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Maw krusha needs to be 320 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 5 hours ago, Malakree said: Realistically the weirdfist is worse, it requires a minimum of 1k points all with toes inside a single 10" area. For the same cost you could field 4 pairs of bolt throwers and have them all over the place. it's not really a good comparaison. You're already playing Ironjawz, so whatever army you field you'll likely take those troop anyway. It's even worse than compare apple and orange. Weirdfist +weirnob cost 340 pts with balewind (and you get a CP and an artefact). Arcane bolt alone will do 4 mortal in average early game, maybe failling to 2-3 late game. This is already better than 2 balista. And you can factor the fact that 40% of your game you can hit a 12 mortal foot of gork, The only drawback is the dispel odds agains LoN or LoS. But with all the heal those army have, balista will end up grinding couple of damage then they will heal. I'll rather test my luck directlly on arkham or Vampire on Dragon. Balista is also completly useless agains Idoneth. Balista will take 2 damages (against 5+) and basically die (4 bravery). Killing a weirnob on balewind take 12 damage (with likely a -1 to hit from shooting) and can take an artefact for protection. Even with 3 balista (360 pts) is only 6 damages rend 2 in battery. Add the save, it's 4-5 damage per turn. And it will explode at any damage. I really don't need shooting that much. Virtually anything is a better investment. Weirnob, 20 Arrowboys, 6 trolls, Bounderz, wolf rider. I'll even take Bloodtooth before a ballista. Comparing Weirdfist, a decent bataillion (you even did a good result yourself) with nominates for Destructions worst model (ie. gitmob artillery) is really suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 The Weirdfist is just bad in every aspect. It should be something like the LoN one but its too old now. It relies on arguably the worst overpriced caster in the game and once he gets sniped t1 thats gg for your entire list and strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstedt Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Malakithe said: The Weirdfist is just bad in every aspect. It should be something like the LoN one but its too old now. It relies on arguably the worst overpriced caster in the game and once he gets sniped t1 thats gg for your entire list and strategy. I agree. It is so fun when you set up and get ready for some gork foots stompin' and bompin', then you realize that you have to move your units away. I'm hoping allegiance abilities give us "waaagh points" which can be spent to buff casts. My idea is resources that can be spent to more precisely buff damage output (similar to fyreslayer runes). This is thematic to the big haymaker feeling of the army. Command abilities should work this way as well. "Pick a unit near the general. Roll a dice. Add that number to the attacks of each of that units weapons. You may expend waaagh points to add one to this roll for each waaagh point spent." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Parker Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 14 hours ago, tolstedt said: Maw krusha needs to be 320 I don’t disagree that MK is overpointed which is why I rarely field them. However they’re a hard unit to point properly. As too cheap and they can be spammed. At that point their combined shooting and destructive bulk can sweep through screens (or go on big ping pong runs) and smashing and bashing will allow them to destroy entire armies. At 320 you could easily play three of them or even four (but then the rest of the list is super tight) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banglesprout Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I've been thinking quite a bit about weirdfist since I read @broche's post a couple of pages back, where he talked about using trolls for some range damage. I do think that Ironjawz need some way to reach out and hit key targets, but I am not a big fan of many of the allied shooting options, so given that, it feels like magic might be the only way. I think there's two issues really with weirdfirst. Firstly it makes you bunch up 5 units + your weirdnob, and secondly since people often also take the balewind vortex it also becomes stationary. The first problem, bunching up, isn't *so* bad because lots of your other abilities also benefit from your units being close togher - such as mighty waaagh, the warchanter buff etc. But I think you also need to put a couple of units into your list that are happy being outside this bubble. The second problem, being stationary, is possible to avoid completely.. but if you want to do that and also cast two spells per turn then you need to take cogs, which I actually don't think is a bad option and gives some nice flexibility as it can also be used to speed up your army. I think there's also a third issue with weirdfist - which is the high casting value of Foot of Gork. Without mystical terrain you're still more likely to fail to cast this spell than you are to succeed, even with the +2 to cast.. I really love it buuut.. I'm starting to think that maybe the way to get more out of the weirdfist is to cast Green Puke and Arcane Bolt more, what're your guy's thoughts on this? Bearing all that in mind the list I am currently thinking of is this Megaboss on MawKrusha (440) General, Ironclad, Daubing of Mork Warchanter (80) Boss skewer Weirdnob Shaman (120) 10 Ardboyz (160) 10 Ardboyz (160) 10 Ardboyz (160) 5 Brutes (180) 5 Brutes (180) 3 Gore Gruntas (140) 3 Gore Gruntas (140) Weirdfist (180) Chronomatic Cogs (60) Giving 2000 points exactly, with 146 wounds. The 30 ardboyz and 10 brutes accompany the weirdnob shaman in the weirdfist. The two gore grunta units are there to act independently . I'm kinda tempted to swap out the two gore grunta units for two Rockgut troggoth units.. I love the models, and the idea of the ranged mortal wounds.. but I think Rockgut's probably work better in one unit of six, rather than two units of three, and their lower wounds, lower save, lower bravery, lower movement speed than Gore gruntas, which makes me think they're really not cut out for acting independently away from the weirdfist blob. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 @Banglesprout i really like it especially the idea of the Cog, give you flexibility (as you can linger 9'' from it) and give you the 2 cast. It also give you the option of speed bump for a well timed strike. I think I would like a 2nd wizard in this list (so he can cast Cog and the main one manipulated it for 2 immediate cast.) Option would be to go -5 brutes +3 gruntas -1 warchanter +1 weirnob. With so many units warchanter won't bring you that much, i think you could spare him. But more importantly, drop the skewer and take the brooch. You know brooch is good right? In any case this is much more constructive than most of the post here (i'm still banging my head at 320 pts Maw Krusha and Weirnob the worst wizard in the game) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, broche said: Weirnob the worst wizard in the game) The weirdnob is atrocious. Let's be clear that there is an enormous difference betweeb the weirdnob and weirdfist. One is an overcosted wizard who has 2 bad personal spells, a hyper conditional casting bonus, only one cast and randomly arcane bolts your army just because. While the other is a long range, if random, nuke platform with two of the most evil personal spells in the game that can just win you games. It's really important to realise that the weirdnob isn't good, the weirdfist is insane and they are two very different beasts. 2 hours ago, broche said: i'm still banging my head at 320 pts Maw Krusha Compare it to all the other behemoths at a similar price range. Dragonlord, great unclean one, roticus, terrorgheist, vlozd, cauldron of blood, free guild gryphon, any of the verminlords. It sits comfortably around 320-340. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banglesprout Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 hours ago, broche said: I think I would like a 2nd wizard in this list (so he can cast Cog and the main one manipulated it for 2 immediate cast.) Option would be to go -5 brutes +3 gruntas -1 warchanter +1 weirnob. With so many units warchanter won't bring you that much, i think you could spare him. I'd be tempted to go for an allied Fungoid.. In which case I'd be tempted to drop the warchanter for him, but it's quite annoying that he's gone up 10 points so they're not the same anymore - I'm not sure how I would change the list to drop those extra 10 points - I could switch a unit of Brutes to a unit of Ardboyz, but I'm not sure I like that as much.. probably would be worth giving a go though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 maybe you could simply use the generic moonclan wizard he get +2 to cast on a 2+ i think now wich help the cog, and his signature spell is not bad and he's only 80 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, broche said: maybe you could simply use the generic moonclan wizard he get +2 to cast on a 2+ i think now wich help the cog, and his signature spell is not bad and he's only 80 pts Not anymore, it's been changed with Gloomspite book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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