AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[tom_gore]

15 hours ago, Aelfric said:

I have just painted up a Megaboss on foot (lovely model!) and would like to paint up a second.  However, when duplicating heroes, I like to try to kitbash an alternative build for variety (this was fine for my Wanderers, being Aelves).  Does anyone have some good suggestions using other GW models?  I considered using a Warchanter as a base, but that would probably be confusing on the table with real Warchanters around and it is a little smaller.  The Megaboss model itself doesn't seem to lend itself to being altered much.  Any advice would be much appreciated.  I have ironjaws bits from the other kits to add on if required.  It's the size that's the tricky bit.

I have this same problem. I hate carbon-copies, especially when it comes to characters. The MK model magnetized to act as a foot boss is an interesting idea and I might just go for it (as I am going to purchase the MK at some point anyway and probably would never want to run 2 foot bosses with it anyway).

[Luzgurbel]

I'm going to play tomorrow with the following list:

 

-Bloodtoof.

-Maw Krusha with Ironclad and Ignax Scales.

-Footboss with Thermalcloak.

-Warchanter with morale boost item.

-Weirdnob.

 

-2x10 Ardboys.

-2x5 Brutes.

-3 Gruntas.

 

These are 1900 points.

 

To round it up I have a couple of options (no more Ardboys models available, sadly):

 

-2 cps more.

-Another Warchanter.

-Drop the Weirdnob and get: 3 more gruntas (and a cp) or 5 more Brutes.

 

What are your suggestions?

[Aelfric]

3 hours ago, tom_gore said:

I have this same problem. I hate carbon-copies, especially when it comes to characters. The MK model magnetized to act as a foot boss is an interesting idea and I might just go for it (as I am going to purchase the MK at some point anyway and probably would never want to run 2 foot bosses with it anyway).

I agree.  I have looked at other GW models, even 40k, but nothing seems to stand out as a good basis for conversion.  I know there are other model ranges out there, but I'd rather keep the Aesthetic consistent throughout the army. I've painted just under 1000 points of Ironjaws thus far, so wasn't planning to get a Mawcrusha just yet, but when I do it seems I'll have to start learning how to magnetise.  

[broche]

@Luzgurbel are you using realm spell? you're playing against which army?

[Malakree]

42 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

I agree.  I have looked at other GW models, even 40k, but nothing seems to stand out as a good basis for conversion.  I know there are other model ranges out there, but I'd rather keep the Aesthetic consistent throughout the army. I've painted just under 1000 points of Ironjaws thus far, so wasn't planning to get a Mawcrusha just yet, but when I do it seems I'll have to start learning how to magnetise.  

Personally I would say it's mandatory for the cabbage, the two key parts are the Megaboss to the Cabbage and then Banner which goes ontop of the MB.

That banner gets knocked so often it's unreal, having magnetised it means I just pick it up and put it back. Honestly though it and the GG's topknots are horrific for breakage potential.

[Luzgurbel]

@broche. Yes, and against Tzeentch, focused on magic and melee with those op Enlightened.

[Oreaper84]

1 hour ago, Luzgurbel said:

I'm going to play tomorrow with the following list:

 

-Bloodtoof.

-Maw Krusha with Ironclad and Ignax Scales.

-Footboss with Thermalcloak.

-Warchanter with morale boost item.

-Weirdnob.

 

-2x10 Ardboys.

-2x5 Brutes.

-3 Gruntas.

 

These are 1900 points.

 

To round it up I have a couple of options (no more Ardboys models available, sadly):

 

-2 cps more.

-Another Warchanter.

-Drop the Weirdnob and get: 3 more gruntas (and a cp) or 5 more Brutes.

 

What are your suggestions?

Do you have the Underworld warband (Ironskulls Boyz)?

They are a good lil objective grabber unit, count for the waaagh, and can give look out sir to a character.

They are also fairly resilient(ish), that and some quicksilver swords (choppas) and you should be good to go.

If you don't have em....then another warchanter isn't a terrible option at all.

[broche]

my priority would go to extra 3 GG to increase body/wound count. I think 1 weirnob with realmspell is as good addition. 

i think I would drop the Megaboss, he don't bring much. 

I would go, MK, Weirnob, 2x warchanter, 6 gruntas, 2 x 10 ardboys, 2 x 5 brutes for 1980 (ideally i would upgrade gruntas with ardboys with the 20pts left).

If you want to stick with the Megaboss, i would swap the weirnob for fungoid and go MK, MB, wc, fungoid (that is probably better). 

I think you should go for Cuirass/broach as well, unless you keep the Megaboss then Scale/Cloak is a defendable choice.

[Luzgurbel]

They are good ideas, despite the fact I don't have the Boyz or a Fungoid.

 

The Footboss is something I really want to test because I've just bought it recently ^^. I will consider, however, the ideas behind more gruntas and less Boss.

 

Thanks ^^

[Oreaper84]

4 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

They are good ideas, despite the fact I don't have the Boyz or a Fungoid.

 

The Footboss is something I really want to test because I've just bought it recently ^^. I will consider, however, the ideas behind more gruntas and less Boss.

 

Thanks ^^

Dont let go of the Boss....he is hands down my favorite piece in my army. I run him with the cloak and he is aces for sure. 140 is a BARGIAN for a meat seeking missile that has...

1. redundancy for the Waaagh

2. 3+ 7 wounds with look out sir

3. Mv 8 w/fly (great at capping the scenarios that require an artifact) 

4. will surprise you as a either a mage assassin or combat force multiplier

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Oreaper84 said:

3. Mv 8 w/fly (great at capping the scenarios that require an artifact)

This is the big thing that makes the footboss not awful, it lets him actually do more than just meander around the battlefield before getting bogged down in 40 skeletons.

[broche]

Yeah unfortunatly Footboss have some problem if you don't play the cloak. With only 4'' move and 10'' waaaagh, his waaagh ability is unraliable at best. It's worst with ironfist, cause the rest of your army move faster, he will end up stuck behind. With the cloak it's already much better.

[Boombatty80]

18 hours ago, Aelfric said:

I agree.  I have looked at other GW models, even 40k, but nothing seems to stand out as a good basis for conversion.  I know there are other model ranges out there, but I'd rather keep the Aesthetic consistent throughout the army. I've painted just under 1000 points of Ironjaws thus far, so wasn't planning to get a Mawcrusha just yet, but when I do it seems I'll have to start learning how to magnetise.  

Not sure how confident you are yet with conversions but you could do worse than looking at some of the older range. One of my megabosses is the old grimgor ironhide which I picked up on eBay before stripping - just gave him a more scenic base to make up for his size.

Alternatively from the 40k Ork range check out Boss Snikrit or the big ass Weirdnob. It wouldn't take an awful lot to get them to fit right in - especially given how many weapons & bits of armour you'll have laying around on old sprues. 

Hope that helps. 

[tom_gore]

I had to "demote" Grimgor into an 'Ardboy boss. He's just so pathetically tiny compared to the Megaboss or even the brutes. Maybe he hadn't heard that Orcs are supposed to grow every time they kill an enemy?

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by tom_gore

[Malakree]

@tom_gore he looks just like my custom Ardboy boss haha

[kenshin620]

Are Blood Bowl Orcs decent enough size? Yea they may not have the big armor, but their arms are quite outstretched to make them look larger. 

[Aelfric]

6 hours ago, Boombatty80 said:

Not sure how confident you are yet with conversions but you could do worse than looking at some of the older range. One of my megabosses is the old grimgor ironhide which I picked up on eBay before stripping - just gave him a more scenic base to make up for his size.

Alternatively from the 40k Ork range check out Boss Snikrit or the big ass Weirdnob. It wouldn't take an awful lot to get them to fit right in - especially given how many weapons & bits of armour you'll have laying around on old sprues. 

Hope that helps. 

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll have to look at the 40K ork bosses next time I'm in the shop.  It's really the size that counts.  It won't feel right, to me, if my Warboss is smaller than my Brutes or even Warchanter.  The Grimgor model is lovely, but alas he is just too small now for my tastes. 

I have done a bit of conversion work, on a minor scale.  Perhaps I ought to challenge myself and convert a standard footboss to a different pose without the big skull.  After all, what's the worst that can happen? 

By the way, nice looking photos.  I can't help but be struck by the similarities between the Stormcast head and C3 PO, or is it just me.

[Luzgurbel]

Finally I've played the game.

 

We played gifts from heaven battleplan. My rival's list was:

 

-Gaunt Summoner.

-LoC.

-Herald on disc.

-2x6 Enlightened.

-2x10 Acolytes.

-9 Flamers.

-10 Pink Horrors.

-Endless spells: Umbral and Geminis.

 

What I've played:

 

-MK with Ironclad and Ignax Scales.

-Footboss with Thermalcloak.

-Warchanter with Boss Skewer.

-2x10 Ardboys with big choppas.

-2x5 Brutes.

-6 Gruntas.

-Bloodtoofs.

 

I've deployed first and allowed him to go first. In his first magic phase, he almost destroyed one unit of Ardboys (he inflicted 17 mortal wounds only with spells) with the spells of the LoC and the Gaunt (the LoC used the Portal to use a Infernal Gateway, and the Summoner augmented his spells via Arcane Sacrifice trait and the Vortex). Finally, he invoked one unit of Blue Horrors.

It was nice, I thought, 17 mortal wounds from more than 24". Almost 1 unit destroyed. And I can't bring back my units. In his movement, he moved back all what he could, forcing me to make a suicidal move in order to reach him.

 

So, I decided to do it. I couldn't allow him spam his mortal wounds freely because I was losing models  quickly. I saved my command points (except 1 I used last turn to save the life of my last 2 Ardboys), and moved and run as fast as I could, praying to be lucky and get the turn.

 

And I did! I was terribly lucky!

 

So, I move all in order to charge with all, and I did a mistake, because the unit of gruntas was far from the MK Waaagh! When I declared it, all my army was in range except the Footboss and the Gruntas, and I should, at least, use 1 Waaagh from the Footboss and boost the Gruntas' attacks (at least, 1 Waaagh could give me 12 attacks more).

Anyways, I charged with all except the 2 Ardboys (failed) and one unit of Brutes (failed) and the Warchanter (too far away, as always). With the Warchanter I boosted the unit of Ardboys. The massive base of the MK, as big as my head, avoided him to charge anything more interested than a unit of Pink Horrors (I wished he could charge into the LoC but it was impossible), though he could attack the Herald on disc.

With those units with +4 attacks (I could roll a 6, yay), I completely destroyed both unit of Horrors, the Herald (MK with +4 attacks is something that can completely wipe out almost everything) and one unit of Acolytes, and 3 Enlightened.

In that moment, I felt that I could win the game. What a fool... 

 

To sum up, the Flamers destroyed the MK and one unit of Brutes in 2 turns of shooting (the Brutes could kill the LoC). He invoked more units to the battlefield, and with his shooting, his OP AS HELL units of Enlightened and his spells, he won the game. I lost all my models and got 0 points from the mission.

 

So, I was thinking... Even taking a big risk to get the double turn, with boosts, some luck and wiping out as much as I can, I still lost. What else can I do? I was quite afraid of his magic, and those 17 mortal wounds on first turn gave me the reason to be afraid of.

 

P.S. I hate Enlightened with all my heart.

P.P.S. I also hate now Flamers with all my heart now too. Three shoots each one with D3 damage. What the heck is that?

[broche]

i'm wondering, if you're in reach of it's spell anyway at game start, aren't you better to go first to control the middle of the board? If you hit a free move or (even a high ironfist with PIG), you can charge with the 6 gruntas or MK turn 1 and clear the screen. Then  if you go first again you've opened a gap, and charge with the rest.  You'll still take those mortal wound anyway, so maybe it better put pressure and turn the match into a brawl. (Specially this scenario when you can't score early)

The other strategy would be to cower back (out of reach of spell) until the objectives fall and then fight for the middle one.

From the game i've played, i think it's better to play turn 1.1 and 2.1 than play 1.2 and 2.1. Turn 2.1 is crucial for sure (specially for IJ). Playing 1.2 end up putting you in reactive mode and will often mitigate the value of the double turn.

[Luzgurbel]

Fight for the middle one? Unless I am missing something, there are only 2 objectives, each one in a player's territory.

 

I like the idea of charging with Gruntas to clean the screens (or at least, try to). The MK has an insane damage output, but he is frail as hell even with 3+ ironclad+ignax, and I used 440 points to kill a screen an a lesser character, maybe 160/200 points worth both units.

 

I am thinking on a list with an Ironfist+Gorefist, without MK, which is giving me nothing but sadness.

[broche]

sorry i mixed Starstrike with gift from heaven!

yeah unfortunatly Gorefist is just plainly superior to Ironfist right now... Ironfist is for who like to play something else than Pig

You would probably need the mystic shield to hellmary the mawkrusha. But even if he die, well it's sad but he will have soaked ton of damage and you still have the Megaboss has a backup.

In fact i think what hurt most this strategy is the geminid, but if you stack 3 waaagh it should compensate

Edited November 22, 2018 by broche

[Ravinsild]

After half a year and much speculation on the viability of lists, experiments with Bloodtoofs and Ironfist and so forth is there a consensus on best list? I know there’s been a lot of toss up between ArdBoyz being worthless and/or great. 

I haven’t played my Ironjawz probably since August so I’m slightly out of the loop. Tried out Death and found them to be not to my taste and was missing the simple Ork smash and bash style. 

Have I missed any major developments? 

Last I heard something like this is one of the best lists: 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad  
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw  
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Bloodtoofs (120)
Ironfist (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Ravinsild

[Andrew G]

24 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

After half a year and much speculation on the viability of lists, experiments with Bloodtoofs and Ironfist and so forth is there a consensus on best list? I know there’s been a lot of toss up between ArdBoyz being worthless and/or great. 

I haven’t played my Ironjawz probably since August so I’m slightly out of the loop. Tried out Death and found them to be not to my taste and was missing the simple Ork smash and bash style. 

Have I missed any major developments? 

Last I heard something like this is one of the best lists: 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad  
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw  
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Bloodtoofs (120)
Ironfist (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

 

Welcome back into the fold!  You're never going to get a complete consensus on what's the "best list", but I can tell you for sure that it isn't anything close to the one you posted. Best showing I've seen recently from IJ was at SoCal Open with a double Mawkrusher Gorefist. Personally, I switch between a Gorefist an a 'ardfist when I'm playing competitively.

That said, most people don't have the models to run a good Gorefist/'ardfist, so there's still  plenty of people experimenting with Bloodtoofs/Ironfists. A couple of things I'd consider changing if you're looking to make a better Bloodtoofs list.

-112 wounds is way too low for an IJ list. Especially one that can't reliably alphastrike. You're overspending on characters.

- No Mortal Wound save on the Mawkrusher. 

- Footboss can't keep up the rest of the army. You pretty much have to take thermalrider if you're using  a footboss as a back-up Waaagh! source. 

- 2 Warchanters, but every troop is min sized. Only 1 of the Warchanters is going to net any real value by buffing the Mawkrusher. Consider dropping one, or if you're going to keep 2, bring at least one 2x strength unit to be a buff sponge for the second chanter. 

- Reconsider Cogs,  it doesn't make you fast enough to T1 charge, and the army is already fast enough to reliably charge T2 without it.  The only thing it's really doing in this list is making it easier for enemy deepstrikers to charge the turn they land.  That, and it's pretty risky tying in a 60 point spell to a single 4 wound wizard. 

 

[Lanoss]

Id very much suggest to reconsider the Shaman + Cogs. Probably 140pts best spent elsewhere as he’s not so likely to get it off

[Zambo]

12 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll have to look at the 40K ork bosses next time I'm in the shop.  It's really the size that counts.  It won't feel right, to me, if my Warboss is smaller than my Brutes or even Warchanter.  The Grimgor model is lovely, but alas he is just too small now for my tastes. 

I have done a bit of conversion work, on a minor scale.  Perhaps I ought to challenge myself and convert a standard footboss to a different pose without the big skull.  After all, what's the worst that can happen? 

 

Hey Aelfric don’t know if this is any help but converting a warchanter into a wyvern warboss was fairly simple only real faff was hus hands as warchanter has forearm attached to hand and brutes weapons don’t, 

i think you could make a great footboss out of him