AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[PlasticCraic]

I like it, however there is no Battleline ?

Something like this maybe?  You could make them pretty mobile with the Destruction move + Cogs + Run & Charge.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (580)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
- General

Battleline
40 x Orruks (280)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields

Units
6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)
6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)

Battalions
Teef Rukk (100)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

[broche]

11 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I like it, however there is no Battleline ?

Something like this maybe?  You could make them pretty mobile with the Destruction move + Cogs + Run & Charge.

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (580)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
- General

Battleline
40 x Orruks (280)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields
10 x Orruks (80)
- Choppas & Shields

Units
6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)
6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)

Battalions
Teef Rukk (100)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

Yes it's better with battleline LOL. Unless maybe i wanted to play Open haha

[Ravinsild]

I've got a game against some Dispossessed tomorrow. I've never played them before, and I also have no Endless Spells or the Fungoid Cave Shaman atm. I've got 40 Ardboys, 25 Brutes, the 15 I am planning on bringing are all dual-wielding but I also have 10 with the 2 handed weapons. I've got 9 Gore-Gruntas. I've only got 1 megaboss on foot atm and 1 maw-krusha, but I have 4 shaman and 3 Warchanters. This is the list I was going to bring, but I'm not sure which command trait or artefacts to bring. I don't actually know what dispossessed do at all really. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180) - Boss Klaw & Smasha, and double Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180) - Boss Klaw & Smasha, and double Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180) - Boss Klaw & Smasha, and double Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) - Pig Iron Choppa
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) - Pig Iron Choppa
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) - Pig Iron Choppa

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129

[Malakree]

One thing is you can only have 5 units in the ironfist, I would suggest merging two of the gg squads so you have a unit of 6 then make that the bosses unit.

Take ironclad and miasmatic blade (ulgu 1) on the cabbage. It will make him super hard for the dorfs to kill because  he's limited on spells.

Grab a sword of judgment (ulgu 6 weapon) for the lulz to turn him into the ultimate heroslayer (and monster) with 2 warchanter buffs on him.

It's a bit tailored towards the dispossessed but it's super close to what I'm running next week at bobo so it's not totally tech'd for them.

[Ravinsild]

41 minutes ago, Malakree said:

One thing is you can only have 5 units in the ironfist, I would suggest merging two of the gg squads so you have a unit of 6 then make that the bosses unit.

Take ironclad and miasmatic blade (ulgu 1) on the cabbage. It will make him super hard for the dorfs to kill because  he's limited on spells.

Grab a sword of judgment (ulgu 6 weapon) for the lulz to turn him into the ultimate heroslayer (and monster) with 2 warchanter buffs on him.

It's a bit tailored towards the dispossessed but it's super close to what I'm running next week at bobo so it's not totally tech'd for them.

So.... do all my leaders fall under the Battalion or literally only the Battleline?

[Andrew G]

2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

So.... do all my leaders fall under the Battalion or literally only the Battleline?

Unfortunately, leaders don't fit in the Ironfist, it's just your battleline. 

[Superninja]

10 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I've got a game against some Dispossessed tomorrow. I've never played them before

Dispossessed Ironbreakers are pretty good and battleline now. 

• The armor they have allows them to ignore -1 rend, so they can be tough to chew through since most of our units have exactly -1 rend. 
• The ironbreakers and I think a couple other dwarf units get a bonus for not moving (such as the shield wall that lets them reroll failed saves). 
• The ironbreakers and I think a couple other dwarf units get an ability to move an extra 4 inches instead of running.

So because of that, I would expect their movement to be bursty, but then stationary for awhile.

They typically bring artillery as well.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Superninja

[Izikail]

Does a weird first realisticaly need a mbmk. Im trying to not store that massive size of the mk if i can, but within faction it fills a unique roal

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Izikail said:

Does a weird first realisticaly need a mbmk. Im trying to not store that massive size of the mk if i can, but within faction it fills a unique roal

No, the cabbage works for two things.

1. Mortal wound output and big damage with good rend.
2. The Mighty Waaagh! ability.

With a weirdfist you are trying to get the MW output from the shaman instead so it's less relevant. While on the other side of it a 140 points Footboss or Warboss on Boar (greenskinz) can fill the Waaagh! roll easily. In a lot of ways you're less reliant on the shock power that a cabbage brings.

[Izikail]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

No, the cabbage works for two things.

1. Mortal wound output and big damage with good rend.
2. The Mighty Waaagh! ability.

With a weirdfist you are trying to get the MW output from the shaman instead so it's less relevant. While on the other side of it a 140 points Footboss or Warboss on Boar (greenskinz) can fill the Waaagh! roll easily. In a lot of ways you're less reliant on the shock power that a cabbage brings.

Cool. Thank you for the rational imput

[Durnaxe]

Hey all after finding out the subreddit is nothing but people posting their paint schemes I found this site and this section for IJ and was looking for advice and a couple of questions answered. My actual gameplay experience is a whopping 3 games but I listen and watch battle reports as I paint (Oh and reading all 17 pages of this thread did help as well).
With the start of AoS 2.0 my LGS had started an escalation league. Choosing IJ, I got wrecked by my opponents Deepkin if the first round at 500 points (though a lot of that was I could not win initiative at all).
Before I smash my face into whomever I play next, I'd like some advice on my armies.
I've got a rough idea of the next couple of lists. Most of it was gleamed from this thread's advice.
Putting them in spoilers to make it less of a mess. Also a minor stipulation about my lists, we have a "theme" competition going on for the league and since I'm already off on a bad footing for actually winning I'm trying for to keep my theme,and my theme is...Warcraft 2. So unless there are some grot suicide bombers (goblin sappers) I'm keeping it as Orky as possible.

750pt bracket:

Spoiler

140pts - Megaboss on Foot (General) w/ Ironclad and Amberglaive
80pts - Warchanter
160pts - Ardboys
180pts - Brutes
140pts - Gore Gruntas
700 points total
1 Extra CP
Went with Ghur for the Amberglaive as a pseudo Warchanter, that way the real Warchanter can focus on the brutes.

1000pt bracket:
 

Spoiler

180pts - Wierdfist Battallion
120pts - Weirdnob Shaman (General) w/Ironclad and Doppelganger Cloak
140pts - Gore Gruntas
140pts - Gore Gruntas
140pts - Gore Gruntas
120pts - Orruk Great Shaman on Boar w/Spellmirror (ally)
80pts - Orruks w/Bows and Cuttas (ally)
40pts - Balewind Vortex
40pts - Geminids of Uhl-Gysh
1000 points
1 Extra CP
Gonna go with Wierdfist at this level since any other battallion seems insufficient at the bracket. Also got the idea from this very thread at some point. Without a WAAAGH! of some sort extra CP doesn't seem THAT needed. The orruks with bows stick with the wierdnob up on his balewind to keep giving him a +1 and just a small cheap shooty wall. The great shaman keeps up with the Gore Gruntas with his spell mirror and other spells.

1250pt bracket:

Spoiler

140pts - Mega Warboss on Foot (General) w/Ironclad and Amberglaive
80pts - Warchanter w/Gryph Feather Charm
180pts - Ironfist Battallion
160pts - Ardboys
180pts - Brutes
180pts - Brutes
140pts - Gore Gruntas
140pts - Gore Gruntas
1200pts
2 Extra CP
This list I am a little iffy on still. Running Ironfist just to have a nice catch all battallion, running multiple small units to avoid bravery checks on some of the more cowardly models and if I need to head towards objectives If I have to. Might combine the Brutes into one unit to make the Warchanter's life a little easier.

The 1500 and 1750 brackets I'm not entirely set on yet. 1500 thinking a big gorefist with warboss on wyvern but that means more kitbashing for my theme (putting orks on wolves instead of pigs) and I'm feeling kinda lazy in that regard. 1750 and 2000 I'm looking at Bloodtoofs with cogs, HOWEVER I am confused about Bloodtoofs.

Bloodtoofs says it requires a Megaboss on Maw Krusha and a 5 man Ironfist battallion. I use the app battlescribe for alot of my list building and I double check it against the Warscroll builder. Except the Warscroll builder doesn't auto include requirements or warn of you such, where Battlescribe does. Battlescribe says the 5 man Ironfist Battallion is free.
So my questions are as follows, (1) Is the Ironfist free in Bloodtoofs? (2) Does the MBMK get the free move from "ere we go" or is that only for the "5 man" Ironfist battallion?

Thanks for any help in this regard!

[Ravinsild]

Well my battle report will be brutal but very short. At the end of the 4th round I tabled the dispossessed player. I lost a total of 4 brutes and 5 Gore-Gruntas. 

An overwhelming victory. I didn’t lose a single complete unit at all. I was able to make excellent use of smashing and bashing and took out his guns early. He also miscalculated removing some models which helped me rampaging destruction with my Maw-Krusha in the 3rd round. 

[Backbreaker]

6 hours ago, Durnaxe said:

Is the Ironfist free in Bloodtoofs?

It's not free, you have to pay !

6 hours ago, Durnaxe said:

Does the MBMK get the free move from "ere we go" or is that only for the "5 man" Ironfist battallion?

Yes but he doesn't have the ironfist buff, only Bloodtooth buff !

[Malakree]

@Durnaxe do you need to keep the units as you go up points or can you completely change your list?

Going for wc2 you could pick up some gitmob rock lobbers, you get 1 per 4 units total and are 100 points each.

 

 

[Ravinsild]

Warcraft 2 Horde seems sort of mildly incompatible. 

Dragon Riders would probably be a regular warboss on wyvern or maybe maw-krusha with some imagination. 

I guess you could take allies for a few ogres, but are there any ogres mages in the whole game? 

Grunts would probably just be ‘Ardboys 

but then there’s like summon daemon which is for sure chaos and a bunch of just like death and necromancy from the acolytes and warlocks which Destruction just doesn’t have like death knights and acolytes and so on. 

Also there is no troll axe thrower or berserker equivalent I know of or goblin sappers. Still it could probably be done with some creativity and some conversions  

 

[Malakree]

17 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I guess you could take allies for a few ogres, but are there any ogres mages in the whole game? 

Firebelly would be perfect, butcher is also an ogre mage.

[Durnaxe]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

@Durnaxe do you need to keep the units as you go up points or can you completely change your list?

Going for wc2 you could pick up some gitmob rock lobbers, you get 1 per 4 units total and are 100 points each.

 

I can change the army lists entirely as long as I stay in my allegiance. I signed up as "orcs" because I didn't know any better at the time so the TO put me down as destruction so I guess in theory I could do a complete switch and start running Beastcallers

 

2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Warcraft 2 Horde seems sort of mildly incompatible. 

Dragon Riders would probably be a regular warboss on wyvern or maybe maw-krusha with some imagination. 

I guess you could take allies for a few ogres, but are there any ogres mages in the whole game? 

Grunts would probably just be ‘Ardboys 

but then there’s like summon daemon which is for sure chaos and a bunch of just like death and necromancy from the acolytes and warlocks which Destruction just doesn’t have like death knights and acolytes and so on. 

Also there is no troll axe thrower or berserker equivalent I know of or goblin sappers. Still it could probably be done with some creativity and some conversions  

 

Yea I plan on doing my dragon riders as the MBMK and the Warboss on wyvern. The Ogre mages I've found are Butcher from gutbusters and the Firebelly, though I did find a 2 headed ogre mage model that I plan on using if I use an Ogre wizard.
At least one wierdnob shaman is supposed to be my representative of Gul'dan and my Shaman on boar is a hero forge model that is gonna be Teron Gorfiend (I cleared proxies with the TO before really setting into the theme).
It's not an official GW store so as long as the TO clears it proxies are allowed within certain tolerances. Sadly my idea of turning a Magma Dragon into Deathwing is put on the back burner since its 520 points and with match play rules I cannot ally him in ?
I was gonna turn Bonsplitterz savage arrow boys into some trolls but then I remembered they would fit much better as Cho'gall's crazed Twilight hammer clan. Although one of the people at my shop did say there was a rumor of IJ getting axe throwers at some point...
Otherwise Ardboyz and orruks are the grunts and I'm taking a slight liberty with the mounted units since in WC2 they were ogres but in WC1 and 3 they are wolf riders.

ANYWAY the only real ally splash I saw from lists on here was the fungoid shaman so I wasn't too worried about trying to fit other ally's in.

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

Updates from the updated FAQs

-Waaagh! and Mighty Waaagh! are stackable. We seem to be the only faction thus far who can stack our command abilities
-Ardfist chaneged: Only once per battle can units that were destroyed return to the battlefield 
-Gore Gruntas: the charge rule was changed back to 8 inches instead of rolling an 8
-Wierdnob: casting AND unbinding rolls that are double, the nearest orruk unit within 10 inches suffers D3 MW
-Gordrakk: Command Ability tweaked- Change the second sentence to: ‘You can use this command ability once per battle, in your hero phase. If you do so, pick a friendly Destruction unit wholly within 24" of Gordrakk.’

[Malakree]

In case anyone was wondering

Quote

Q: Can I spend 2 or more command points to allow the same model to use the same command ability more than once in the same phase? A: Yes, unless specifically noted otherwise

Quote

Q: Can I use the Mighty Waaagh! and/or Waaagh! command abilities to affect the same unit more than once in the same phase? A: Yes.

In the latest FAQs. It's now official that a single Megaboss can Waaagh! until you run out of CP's.

Quote

P85 – Artefacts of Power, Relics of Hysh, Lens of Refraction Change the rules text to: ‘Once per battle round, the first time a friendly unit within 6" of the bearer suffers any mortal wounds inflicted by a spell or endless spell, roll a D3 and reduce the number of mortal wounds suffered by the roll.’

It was nice to actually have defences against spells while it lasted.

Quote

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh card, Tendrils of Shadow and Light Change the rules text to: ‘After the Shadow Geminid model has moved, each unit that has any models it passed across suffers D3 mortal wounds. In addition, subtract 1 (to a minimum of 1) from the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by each unit that has any models it passed across until the end of the battle round. A unit is not affected by the Shadow Geminid model if it has been passed across by the Light Geminid model earlier in the same battle round. After the Light Geminid model has moved, each unit that has any models it passed across suffers D3 mortal wounds. In addition, subtract 1 from hit rolls for each unit that has any models it passed across until the end of the battle round. A unit is not affected by the Light Geminid model if it has been passed across by the Shadow Geminind model earlier in the same battle round (a unit can be affected by one or other of the models each battle round, but not both).’

This is well needed!

Quote

Q: When one of my models piles in, if it is equally close to two different enemy models, do I have to finish the move as close or closer to each of those models? For example, if my model is in base contact with two enemy models, does it have to finish a pile-in move in base contact with both those models? A: Yes to both questions – if this is impossible the model cannot move.

So we are back to rotating around units using the same pre-AoS2 movements and pinning now happens with two models not one.

Overall

1. Really sad about the loss of the Lens of Refraction. Especially since Aetherquatz Broach is still close to mandatory for a lot of our lists. (more on that below)
2. Geminids we OP and thankfully they can no longer stack both Debuffs on us. Still sucks in combination with some of the other wizards though.
3. The pile in ruling is god awful, it has in a lot of ways just reinstated the previous editions rules. There are differences but not sizeable.
4. Multi-Waaagh! is disgusting although further consideration is given down below as to why it might be fine.

Multi-Waaagh!

So I used a list with this in at the throne of skulls tournament over the weekend and it's filth, I didn't expect it to be anywhere near as much filth as it actually is but it's just disgusting. Using Bloodtoofs you generally get to pick if you want turn 1 then casting Cogs gives you such a giant threat range. I'd say this build is really strong and the opponent HAS to move to counter it or you will really wreck them. Despite this, after consideration, I'm actually inclined to agree that it's not broken. Very strong, but not broken. If you do go off then it's one turns worth of huge explosive unstoppable power, or you can stagger it out to get several turns of powerful but not overwhelming strength.

The problem is that the Aetherquartz Broach exists.

In my final game, we ended up squaring up for a turn before I actually committed so I had 4 command points. I decided to keep my final CP back after I had spent 3 to get 8 Waaagh! running on my megaboss. My thought was "I can keep going and get at least 1 more attack but I'm not sure it matters" as it turns out it would have done if he had won priority turn 3 but even then I was going first so I had the wins doubles advantage. I rolled one 6 out of my 8 dice and got 9 extra attacks with my entire army. On my first command point I got 4 Waaagh! running. That means with no battalions the Broach would have given me a free 3, it is such a horrific artefact for us that it's mandatory for every Ironjawz army that's even thinking about using the Waaagh.

My unit of 3 pigs then proceeded to kill 31 skeletons despite a 5+(4+ vs no rend) save followed by 6++, 6++ against the individual wounds. Earlier in the tournament I killed 27 skeletons with them in a single turn with him having 6(5)+ rerolling 1s as his save. 

The smallest number of additional attacks I got out of my Waaagh! turn was 5 and I held a command point back in most games in case I needed to reroll a key failed charge. 

With the state of the game as it is right now as long as you aren't terrible, like me, Ironjawz are easily T1. Unless your opponent makes some very serious considerations with regards to countering what we are doing with screening AND giving up board position you can essentially remove them from the board T1 or T2.

Long story short, the Broach is Overpowered as all sin and mandatory for us until it's nerfed.

[Skabnoze]

I don't understand why they have so much issue with pile-in.  It seems to me that the intent of pile-in is to have both participants in the fight get as many people into range to fight as possible.  It should have been really easy to simply write a rule that says that when a unit finishes piling into combat that it needs to have as many of it's models as close to the enemy as possible.  You could write the rules so that people could shuffle models around in the combat but still need to get as many models trying to punch the enemy in the face as they can.

The problem with pile-in is that you have to pay attention to each model's relationship to the closest model - and that is just a slow process.  It would be better if you could just quickly shuffle your models around with their pile-in move but get more into combat.  The rules for this phase are just ripe for stream-lining.

[broche]

@Malakree It's good for sure, but not sure it's better than other t1 army. Like DoK and Idoneth can still wreck you. You'll still have a hard time getting to a slann hiding behind 2 bastilladon and summoning stuff.  It seem to me that there's still is lot of broken stuff lingering around

[Malakree]

Just now, broche said:

@Malakree It's good for sure, but not sure it's better than other t1 army. Like DoK and Idoneth can still wreck you. You'll still have a hard time getting to a slann hiding behind 2 bastilladon and summoning stuff.  It seem to me that there's still is lot of broken stuff lingering around

Oh no doubt, it definitely puts us in the T1 bracket of "obliterates any none T1 army" though. Where in T1 is questionable, mainly because of our vulnerability to Mortal Wound output, but if you go against someone using a suboptimal army or who makes a single mistake you can easily take them apart.

[Skabnoze]

12 minutes ago, Malakree said:

 but if you go against someone using a suboptimal army or who makes a single mistake you can easily take them apart.

Well, good thing I generally play suboptimal armies and make multiple mistakes!

[Jgroover]

2 hours ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

Updates from the updated FAQs

-Waaagh! and Mighty Waaagh! are stackable. We seem to be the only faction thus far who can stack our command abilities
-Ardfist chaneged: Only once per battle can units that were destroyed return to the battlefield 
-Gore Gruntas: the charge rule was changed back to 8 inches instead of rolling an 8
-Wierdnob: casting AND unbinding rolls that are double, the nearest orruk unit within 10 inches suffers D3 MW
-Gordrakk: Command Ability tweaked- Change the second sentence to: ‘You can use this command ability once per battle, in your hero phase. If you do so, pick a friendly Destruction unit wholly within 24" of Gordrakk.’

The last four of these were from the June errata so nothing changed there. As far as I can tell the only Ironjawz specific update this time is confirming Waaaghs stack. 

[Jgroover]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

In my final game, we ended up squaring up for a turn before I actually committed so I had 4 command points. I decided to keep my final CP back after I had spent 3 to get 8 Waaagh! running on my megaboss.

How did you get 8 waaagh rolls with 3 command points?